What hours does traffic move at speed limit on 447?

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What hours does traffic move at speed limit on 447?

Postby PlayaPatrol » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:07 pm

On Monday-Friday during Burning Man what hours at night does traffic on highway 447 from 80 to black rock city move at the speed limit?
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Re: What hours does traffic move at speed limit on 447?

Postby Canoe » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:30 pm

With the road/shoulders that washed out, their reconstruction, whatever shut it down Sunday night, open range and accidents, it's anyone's guess.

Note that once the initial influx is in, the traffic load lowers. I've seen lines as late as Wednesday day. Will they use this as time to get back to highway repairs, to prepare for the Exodus.

Note that there's an influx on Friday, afternoon and evening, as people arrive who can only get there for the long weekend.

If your 'line' ends up being a few cars behind a slower RV (or overloaded car or truck), that steadily accumulates more vehicles behind it, sorta like an impromptu parade, DO NOT PASS. This is the biggest cause of accidents, and delays, on 447.
DO NOT SPEED!!!
TURN YOUR HEADLIGHTS ON AS YOU TURN NORTH FROM FERNLEY - NIGHT OR DAY!!!
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Re: What hours does traffic move at speed limit on 447?

Postby PlayaPatrol » Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:44 pm

Thanks canoe. Like on mountain roads and all two lane roads courtesy and the law dictates that slower vehicles pull over and let traffic pass. Even if there's no sign telling you to let faster traffic pass. Driving below the speed limit will always cause traffic to try to pass you.
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Re: What hours does traffic move at speed limit on 447?

Postby Canoe » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:09 pm

PlayaPatrol wrote:... dictates that slower vehicles pull over and let traffic pass. Even if there's no sign telling you to let faster traffic pass. ...

Nice theory. Willing to die for it. Others on 477 to BRC have. And they've killed others doing it.

And special this year, in addition to narrow and/or soft shoulders that will roll your vehicle
Canoe wrote:With the road/shoulders that washed out,

Burning Man Update: The Jack Rabbit Speaks, Volume 17, Issue #38, August 16, 2013

ROAD WORK ON ROUTE 447

Route 447 is the main drag from I-80 to the playa. Most Burners get to Black Rock City via 447. And it has taken a beating this year from a series of flash floods. ...

Please drive slowly and carefully -- the shoulders (verges) are very soft / non existent after being washed away -- and allow extra time for your journey.
...
Last edited by Canoe on Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Highway to Hell. Stairway to Heaven.Traffic prediction?
.
Odd. No bears in the dump. Oh well, lets go across the road & pick blueberries.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.
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Re: What hours does traffic move at speed limit on 447?

Postby BBadger » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:12 pm

It's really cute that you're citing these traffic "courtesy" laws, but this is not some scenic mountain road with a few tens of cars along the entire stretch.

Traffic law also dictates that road and traffic conditions on the ground take priority over whatever generalized traffic policies are in place. In this case, we have thousands of overloaded, and often oversized vehicles driving on a small two-lane highway in the middle of nowhere. If people are driving more slowly, it is for the sake of safety, the risk of being pulled over, and the fact that it really doesn't make much difference if you get in the gate line any sooner.

Instead make the best of a slow situation: you're saving gas by drafting off the car in front of you. We've purposely not passed some vehicles just for that fact alone.
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Re: What hours does traffic move at speed limit on 447?

Postby Rice » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:34 pm

PlayaPatrol wrote:Thanks canoe. Like on mountain roads and all two lane roads courtesy and the law dictates that slower vehicles pull over and let traffic pass. Even if there's no sign telling you to let faster traffic pass. Driving below the speed limit will always cause traffic to try to pass you.

That only works when there is somewhere to turn off. And, where, exactly - is this "law" written??
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Re: What hours does traffic move at speed limit on 447?

Postby gyre » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:46 pm

It's state law everywhere i know of, but only applies when practical.
The interstate system used to be two lane.
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Re: What hours does traffic move at speed limit on 447?

Postby Canoe » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:18 pm

gyre wrote:... when practical...

JackRabbitSpeaks wrote:Soft shoulders...
...State Route 447 and the other rural highways have *very* soft shoulders and the chance of getting stuck is much higher than you expect, especially in the soft sands around Pyramid lake. Only pull over if you absolutely have to, and if at all possible only on fully developed gravel shoulders. It's also easy to roll a vehicle if you hit these soft shoulders at high speeds. Be CAREFUL.

And you can roll while stopped, too.
Some of 447 gravel shoulders are not "fully developed gravel shoulders", but a narrow strip of leveling buildup or even berm for the road, and these have been softened by the recent rain.
Highway to Hell. Stairway to Heaven.Traffic prediction?
.
Odd. No bears in the dump. Oh well, lets go across the road & pick blueberries.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.
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Re: What hours does traffic move at speed limit on 447?

Postby reader2580 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:20 pm

There is almost no place to pull over on 447, especially for a motorhome or any vehicle towing a trailer. There are metal or fiberglass posts along the road for much of the length of 447. The best place to pull over would probably be in one of the towns along the way. We had a tire issue along northbound 447 last year near Wadsworth and couldn't find any place to pull over to stop.
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Re: What hours does traffic move at speed limit on 447?

Postby Canoe » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:28 pm

Hence, with heavy vehicles that are driving slower (RVs, trucks, trailers, overloaded anything going to BRC, and all the commercial trucks that travel that highway)

OP, look here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=65571&p=965884#p965884
and below it
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=65571&p=965884#p965974

For anyone you pass, you're not getting into BRC any faster, you're just getting to the line sooner - where you'll wait - with those you passed pulling in behind or beside you.
Highway to Hell. Stairway to Heaven.Traffic prediction?
.
Odd. No bears in the dump. Oh well, lets go across the road & pick blueberries.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.
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Re: What hours does traffic move at speed limit on 447?

Postby PlayaPatrol » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:24 pm

Not a theory, its rude if not illegal to hold up traffic driving the speed limit. Its legal to pass in passing zones, and will happen. The slow driver is the one who is selfishly tying up traffic and the slow car will be tailgated and passed over and over again until the driver uses his brain and pulls over or no one is behind him. And on a multi lane road, slow traffic should keep right or will be passed and tailgated. Your slow vehicle is no one elses problem. Your slow vehicle causes accidents.
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Re: What hours does traffic move at speed limit on 447?

Postby PlayaPatrol » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:28 pm

Reader Ive done the drive many times. there are plenty of safe places to pull off. That holds true for other two lane highways. Selfish power tripping slow drivers refuse to pull over, they dont care if a 100 cars are following them. So youll continue to get passed with inches to spare and have to hit your brakes.
Anyone taking offence at anything in my posts - tough. It's only an internet forum. Stop being overly sensitive. you are shallow and banal. Eplayans who spend hours a day posting need to make in person friends and mentally masturbate less.
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Re: What hours does traffic move at speed limit on 447?

Postby Canoe » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:51 pm

We're not talking about normal roads with normal traffic, but 447 to Gerlach, with often overloaded vehicles and an abnormally high volume of traffic (as in, 68,000 Burning Man tickets).
So, as usual, the word was passed out,

JackRabbitSpeaks wrote:Burning Man Update: The Jack Rabbit Speaks, Volume 17, Issue #31 TRANSPORTATION & TRAFFIC, July 25, 2013

But yeah, transportation and traffic, people. If there's just ONE thing you get out of this JRS, please please let it be this:

BE CAREFUL OUT THERE. DON'T DRIVE UNDER THE INFLUENCE (OF INTOXICANTS... OR THAT OTHER KILLER, SLEEPLESSNESS). DON'T SPEED. DON'T PASS CARS ON ROUTE 447. ARRIVE ALIVE.

Was that clear enough? Did it seem emphatic? Cool. We want you to arrive in Black Rock City safely, and return to your other home the same way.


You want to go out and kill yourself or others, we can't stop you.

And it's extra special this year - you may wish to stay off the shoulders they they hastily did incomplete repairs on just to get people through for BM.

highway 447, 2013.jpg
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Highway to Hell. Stairway to Heaven.Traffic prediction?
.
Odd. No bears in the dump. Oh well, lets go across the road & pick blueberries.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.
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Re: What hours does traffic move at speed limit on 447?

Postby reader2580 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:52 pm

PlayaPatrol wrote:Reader Ive done the drive many times. there are plenty of safe places to pull off. That holds true for other two lane highways. Selfish power tripping slow drivers refuse to pull over, they dont care if a 100 cars are following them. So youll continue to get passed with inches to spare and have to hit your brakes.


I'll agree that there are places for cars to to pull over on 447. I'll disagree that there are many SAFE places to pull over when you're driving a motorhome with trailer that is 67 feet long like my rig. I generally drive 65 MPH or higher on 447 depending on traffic and speed limits. Many of the pull offs are fairly short and it isn't always easy to slow down fast enough to pull over. Like others have said, the shoulders on 447 can be quite soft so I wouldn't want to pull onto them at any type of speed.
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Re: What hours does traffic move at speed limit on 447?

Postby BBadger » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:53 pm

PlayaPatrol: you're just being deliberately obtuse on this matter. This is not about being selfish, a "power-trip," or any other delusions you're harboring. This is about recognizing the reality of the situation (as already detailed above), and prioritizing safety over a desire to be first in line, or some stupid notion of lofty courtesy traffic rules that don't apply.

You're also a fool if you think passing these RVs, or the RVs pulling over, is going to make much difference in your arrival time. It's like those aggressive drivers who dart in and out of traffic only to get caught at the same stop-light as everyone else. There's a HUGE stop-light waiting for everyone at the end of that road. Nobody is getting to the playa any faster than that RV, whether they pass it or not.

Enjoy the scenery and stop thinking like a ROAD HAZARD. You are the one being selfish here, and you're the one who will be backing up traffic for miles if you cause an accident.
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Re: What hours does traffic move at speed limit on 447?

Postby Canoe » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:57 pm

Drawingablank wrote:Speaking of the highway north of Fernley - Last year we rented a 30 foot truck. While driving up that road I was doing about 7 mph under the speed limit (much to the annoyance of my son and rideshare) because the truck rode much more comfortably at that speed. Some maniac passed us and nearly had a head on with a big truck.

The youngsters didn't believe me when I said that guy nearly killed himself to get there 10 seconds before us ... but sure enough when we crossed the tracks at Gerlach he was 20 feet in front of us.

And once you hit the playa, it's multi-lane to Gate. At Gate, you could end up beside or ahead of those who passed you. Although, as prior behavior is the greatest predictor pre-dick-er of future behavior, they'll likely speed over the 10 mph limit, throwing huge amounts of dust up into the air, blinding the lanes it blows into, and arrive at the bumper to bumper portion of the line, sitting there while you pull up to them...
Highway to Hell. Stairway to Heaven.Traffic prediction?
.
Odd. No bears in the dump. Oh well, lets go across the road & pick blueberries.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.
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Re: What hours does traffic move at speed limit on 447?

Postby Rice » Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:38 pm

to answer the original question...

the traffic may not ever move at the speed limit for the entire burn. Heck, I have been on that highway 2 weeks before, during and 1 week after burning man - never have travelled at the speed limit for the entire trip. There are certain spots that I believe are posted too fast for the road. (Guess I prefer to remain in control of the vehicle I am driving)

Expecting everyone to get out of your way is - well ... I'll politely say unrealistic

Like others have said, in the big scheme of things you are only looking at a couple minutes "savings" with the much greater risk of either being in an accident or causing one.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.
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Re: What hours does traffic move at speed limit on 447?

Postby ManitoBURN » Sun May 04, 2014 10:00 am

I've driven busses on narrow winding roads before and it SUCKS!
Half the time the rear axel is either WAY on the shoulder or WAY into oncoming traffic!
Busses and RVs handle like shit, and won't stop going faster then 40. Sand is like snow (I live in Canada)
Too fast and yet gonna wind up on the roof and corners are always to fast! Even at 40! Deal with the line or DIE when some worn out old school bus pops a tire and spins out.
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