Bike Security

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Postby Elliot » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:16 pm

:D


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And a welded kick stand makes three. It is welded on the back, where it does not show. No need to drill a hole and install a pin or bolt, since the stand unbolts from the bike perfectly easily as it is.

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Bait Bike number 3. This bike is a twin to the noodly frame bike.


Oh, looking at it, it seems clear that drilling a hole for a pad lock would work.
:D
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Postby Elliot » Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:46 pm

:D
Hello Girls and Boys. It is Saturday morning, and you know what that means.... Yes, cartoons!

You may have heard your parents complain that cartoons are too violent -- as when Wyle E. Coyote goes SPLAT! into the desert floor. Well, we just may be able to witness such a SPLAT! today -- bwahahahahah!

Our story begins on the Saturday evening before Burning Man opened this year. Your friendly local bicycle guy -- moi -- had almost finished loading all his Stuff in his bus and on the trailer. Some of the Playa Bikes were on the trailer but not yet tied down.
Come Sunday morning, two of the bikes were gone. I even knew exactly which bikes -- these were two of the bikes that comprised the Herring Bar in 2008.


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No front brakes, since there were no front wheels. The most serious loss was the two comfy saddles.


Fast forward now to this morning, October 10. I go for my “morning constitutionalâ€
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Postby unjonharley » Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:59 pm

that splat picture gives a warm fuzzy feeling
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Postby Elderberry » Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:27 pm

This is one of my favorite threads on eplay!

JK
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Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
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Postby Charlie_in_OC » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:50 pm

Elliot wrote:
Next... I think reversed pedals that unscrew themselves, but I need to do some Gainful Employment first.
:D


Elliot, Do you have any old school beach cruiser pedals? The ones that have the individual rubber blocks held onto the metal pedal frame with thier own bolt?

A idea I played with earlier this year but didn't get the chance to complete before the Burn was disassemble pedal, remove outer nut off of pedal spindle AND leave off, added small compression spring to pedal spindle, pushed pedal body back on and drilled pedal body and spindle with 1/8" drill bit and inserted tooth pick to hold pedal body onto spindle.

The goal was trying to find a balance of a strong enough "pin" to hold the pedal body onto the spindle and the right spring so if someone tried to ride the bike the "pin" would shear off AND the spring would push the riders feet off.

Never had the time to find the right balance.

Charlie
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Postby Elliot » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:37 am

:D
That's a great idea, Charlie! Sounds very doable. Might not even need a spring, since the pedal would probably soon slip off anyway.

Not sure what kind of beach cruiser pedal you are referring to, but if you mean the kind I think, then I would not want to ruin any of those because they are such good pedals.

Now, don't tell AntiM and Dork, but we could sharpen the tips of those spindles. :twisted:

About the "cartoon episode" above, I have concluded that the bike was tossed down the embankment, but I can still "see" the guy riding it down. :P
:D
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Postby Charlie_in_OC » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:30 am

Elliot

Should have wrote Old School "style". The set I hacked up had plastic pedal blocks with molded in reflectors.

NOT a original set of Schwinn / Columbia etc etc... that there are actually reproduction rubber replacement blocks for.

Went out to garage last night and dug them out. The next thing I want to try is drill and tap a piece of hex stock big enough to spot weld to pedal frame and use a much heavier compression spring.

Basically screwing the pedal body onto the spindle so it would take 8-10 revolutions to unthread the nut/pedal.

Downside is I would only be able to do one side..... unless the oppisite side was a left hand thread :idea:

Need to do some shopping in the Mc-Master Carr catalog for left hand thread taps and dies!

Charlie
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path and leave a trail of clothes." - Pastor Philip
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Postby Elliot » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:48 am

:D
Drill and tap hex stock? You can buy that in any hardware store -- it is called a barrel nut or coupling nut. About something like maybe four or five times longer than a normal nut.

One pedal falling off will probably stop the bike just fine.

As for left-hand thread, I'm thinking that a crank arm can be cut and welded to swap sides.

Now... I may not be awake yet, or something, but my mind is struggling to comprehend the rotation and unsrewing of pedals. In my mind, it looks like normal pedals would unscrew themselves. Perhaps you could explore that question as a sanity check. My mind is on something else at the moment.
:D
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Postby unjonharley » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:22 am

You may have go to nut & bolt store for a large enough barrel nut..
I had to open an acount just to buy odds and ends.. They want a mim of $6 per buy.. With the acount I can buy one or two no min

I have buckets of nuts and bolts and spring and things.. Still never have just "the one"
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Postby Charlie_in_OC » Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:29 pm

Okay, without photos my posts are useless :D

Elliot, a barrel or coupler nut is 4-5 times longer than a normal nut.

What I was attempting to describe was a nut 7-8 times the normal hex size, think 7/8 hex for a 1/4-28 thread.

Thought was to match the outside of the pedal frame for a easy spot weld.

I'll go back to lurking now :oops:

Charlie



Elliot wrote::D
Drill and tap hex stock? You can buy that in any hardware store -- it is called a barrel nut or coupling nut. About something like maybe four or five times longer than a normal nut.

One pedal falling off will probably stop the bike just fine.

As for left-hand thread, I'm thinking that a crank arm can be cut and welded to swap sides.

Now... I may not be awake yet, or something, but my mind is struggling to comprehend the rotation and unsrewing of pedals. In my mind, it looks like normal pedals would unscrew themselves. Perhaps you could explore that question as a sanity check. My mind is on something else at the moment.
:D
"Do not follow where the path may lead; go instead, where there is no
path and leave a trail of clothes." - Pastor Philip
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Postby gyre » Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:45 pm

Pegasus has some very hard to find hardware.
Not cheap but fast.

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/
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Postby Elorrum » Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:59 pm

my input, probably off the mark as well...
Charlie, are you looking for the nut equivalent of a fender washer, where the outside diameter is much greater than the hole size?

and Elliot, I think pedals rotate in the direction that would tighten themselves, if they weren't spinning freely. hmmm omg instant brain jello. did you think about it for a while too and then it didn't make sense anymore? excuse me, I need to go look at my bike.
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Postby Elliot » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:03 pm

:D
Charlie: Thanks for clarifying. I failed to grasp that part of it. I'm trying to keep my mind on this Gainful Employment thing at the same time, ya know. :lol:

And don't go away! We need more fabricators around here.

That said, I continue to believe that it would be both simpler and more effective to let the entire pedal unscrew itself from the crank arm. After all, if the spindle is left attached, the bike is still ridable.
But I like your devious thinking!
:D
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Postby Elliot » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:06 pm

:D
Elorrum: Yes on both. "Fender nut", and "... waittaminnitt... this goes this way and........... Huh?" :lol:
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Postby Elliot » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:50 pm

Stand by for Scientific Breakthrough....

.
.
.
.
.

I always hate it when I electrocute myself with the arc welder in the rain, but some of us accept a certain Responsibility to Science that shall not be shirked.


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There are automobiles with left-hand-thread lug nuts on the left-side of the vehicle. And the left-side pedal -- and the left-side crank nuts -- on a bicycle is left-hand-thread.

I always took for granted that this was to prevent the Mechanism from dis-assembling itself in (more or less normal) service.

Then, a while back, when this idea of doctoring bicycles came up, I went out and looked at a bicycle. Best I could figure, the pedals would UN-screw themselves if the pedal bearings were to freeze up. So I "swore off the bottle" and kept this heretic suspicion to myself.

Above is a photo of a Dummy Pedal. It is a right-side pedal-shaft with a flat scrap of steel welded to it. After it cooled, I installed it HALF WAY in its old location. Then I turned the crank forward, expecting the pedal to finish installing itself.

The pedal UN-SCREWED ITSELF from the crank arm.

All we have to do is pin or weld a pedal, discretely, and we have Bait Bike Number Four.

I swear I have had cranks disassemble themselves when operating in reverse. Back to the bottle! :lol:
:D
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Postby Elliot » Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:42 pm

:D
From the Sheldon Brown / Harris Cyclery web site:

Pedal Threading
Direction
The right pedal has a normal thread, but the left pedal has a left (reverse) thread.
The reason for this is not obvious: The force from bearing friction would, in fact, tend to unscrew pedals threaded in this manner. The fact is, however, that it is not the bearing friction that makes pedals unscrew themselves, but a phenomenon called "precession".

You can demonstrate this to yourself by performing a simple experiment. Hold a pencil loosely in one fist, and move the end of it in a circle. You will see that the pencil, as it rubs against the inside of your fist, rotates in the opposite direction.

Ignorant people outside the bike industry sometimes make the astonishing discovery that the way it has been done for 100 years is "wrong." "Look at these fools, they go to the trouble of using a left thread on one pedal, then the bozos go and put the left thread on the wrong side! Shows that bicycle designers have no idea what they are doing..."

Another popular theory of armchair engineers is that the threads are done this way so that, if the pedal bearing locks up, the pedal will unscrew itself instead of breaking the rider's ankle.

The left threaded left pedal was not the result of armchair theorizing, it was a solution to a real problem: people's left pedals kept unscrewing! I have read that this was invented by the Wright brothers, but I am not sure of this.

Note! The precession effect doesn't substitute for screwing your pedals in good and tight. It is very important to do so. The threads (like virtually all threads on a bicycle) should be lubricated with grease, or at least with oil.

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Postby Fire_Moose » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:11 am

What's the trick to typing after you have electrocuted yerself?
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Postby gyre » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:14 am

Is it possible to switch the crank arms?
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Postby Elliot » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:38 am

:D
Fire_Moose: Lots of practice.

Gyre:
Why? We just figured out that we don't need to. But yes, cranks can be reversed -- we do it all the time when we build Kinetic Racers with multi stage drive trains. Oh, and you might enjoy googling "precession" and "fretting" -- highly technical, but you're a technical guy. Explains the mystery.
:D
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Postby Sail Man » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:53 am

Fire_Moose wrote:What's the trick to typing after you have electrocuted yerself?


Behold! The new and improved Elliot!
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Postby Elorrum » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:35 am

I think we should create a Sheldon Brown memorial prize for the self removing pedal bike. What fantastic mechanical trivia!!! My Dad in heaven rubs his hands together and grins whenever I learn stuff like that.
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Postby Elliot » Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:53 pm

:D
The self-removing pedals are a done deal. I sacrificed an old pair of steel pedals because it was easy to weld them. They look right at home on a "retro" styled cruiser. It is a coaster-brake bike, so I'm adding a front caliper brake to prevent a runaway situation. Of course, that front brake could turn out to be a touch grabby -- hard to control these things.

Photos later, as I'm wrestling with a major 'puter crash.
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Postby Elliot » Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:10 pm

:D
Replacement pooter seems to be operational -- for now. Been busy with the dreaded G.A. (Gainful Employment) also.

But a Decision was made on All Hallows Eve. There is now a Second Reason to build bicycles that are difficult to ride: We'll make sport of it! Initial plan is to have a corral of un-tamed bicycles, and invite the braver of the Playa Buckaroos to try to ride them.

We already have quite a stable for this purpose, as my buddy Peter is already well known on the Playa for his Whymcycles -- some of which are also called "bouncing bikes".

And let's try to think outside the common "tall bike" and "chopper" trends. Let's see what we can do with bikes that still look normal.

How about a backward-pedaling one, with the chain quite simply in a figure-8?

Likely venue for this corral of wild beasts is in Camp Apokiliptika / Terminal City.
:D
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Postby snake » Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:40 pm

yes yes elliot!!! apokiliptika it is!! doom is our middle name.
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Postby gyre » Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:55 pm

These could be the best viral videos ever!!!
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Postby penguin » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:04 pm

How about two different length crank arms?

Or a little harder to implement, reverse steering?

Maybe too subtle, reverse front and back brake levers?

Front wheel drive with rear wheel steering?

Hand pedal, foot steer?
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Postby Elliot » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:32 pm

:D
Shorten one crank arm -- no problem. Good for a "beginner's untamed bike".
But then my brain kicked in... how about different gear ratios? One foot has to pedal faster than the other! The neat way would be a planetary gear set hidden in the center of the crank. But the more realistic way -- fabrication-wise -- would be a sprocket on each side, going to an intermediate shaft. Could hide that with "routine BRC fake fur".

Reverse steering has been done by the CycleCide guys in San Francisco. I have seen the bike -- allthough I knew better than to try to ride it. I could build one of those, sure. Plenty of old gears from various transmissions laying around here somewhere.

Brake lever placement.... I daily curse whoever standardized the rear brake on the right and the front on the left -- because motorcycles are standardized with the front brake on the right! So I used to set up my own bicycle with the front brake on the right, to keep all my two-wheelers standardized. But then I got into providing bicycles for other people to ride, so I now stick with the bicycle standard on bicycles. Would swapping them "do any good"? Well, if the front brake grabs like an effin' cast iron anchor, it would! LOL

Front wheel drive, rear wheel steer, hand cranking, and so forth... all that stuff is already being done by Whymcycle Pete. We would not use any of those for Thief Bait, but there will definitely be some in the Untamed Bike Corral in Terminal Village.
:D
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Postby DiveDogFLL » Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:27 pm

EPIC THREAD!!!

Have you thought about letting the wheels fall off....
cut 1 fork and hold it on silver HiVac tape, + paint..

but a little on the evil side since someone might get hurt...

-better yet would be a paint bomb that marked the offender in some distinct color. maybe henna.

:twisted:
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Postby penguin » Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:31 pm

Elliot wrote::D
Shorten one crank arm -- no problem. Good for a "beginner's untamed bike".
But then my brain kicked in... how about different gear ratios? One foot has to pedal faster than the other! The neat way would be a planetary gear set hidden in the center of the crank. But the more realistic way -- fabrication-wise -- would be a sprocket on each side, going to an intermediate shaft. Could hide that with "routine BRC fake fur".


Hmm, how about positioning the crank arms at the same relative position on both sides rather than 180 degrees apart?

Or, getting into more funky gearing -- pedal one side clockwise and the other side counter-clockwise?
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Postby Elliot » Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:47 pm

:D
Wheel falling off.... I might key the axle to the wheel (over-tighten bearing should do), and key the right-side nut to the fork -- and reverse the drop-out slots. Leave left nut loose. Axle unscrews from right-side nut until it clears the safety, and off it comes. This is just too easy!
(But don't tell the Hall Monitors about this one!)

Actually, the frame with garage door springs behaves pretty much like the wheels fall off. I've tried it on a couple of unsuspecting teenagers. Instant Total Krash.

Parallell pedals -- piece of cake and a natural for the Untamed Bike Corral. Consider it done.
(Also, Peter routinely rigs hand-cycles that way, as they are difficult to steer otherwise. )

One side forward and the other backwards? Two chains; one in a figure 8. Doable, but a lot of work for a gimmick that... this is just a gut feel... may be too awkward to figure out to be amusing in the Corral. You build it and try it on some friends. I'm saving myself for the Saddle That Rises As You Pedal.
:D
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