Electric Bicycle?

Bikes, trikes, personal mobility and mutant vehicles - this is the place to discuss general transportation issues. For ride and RV shares, please go to the year-specific Share Resources board.

Postby CapSmashy » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:32 am

Bought an E Zip Trailz for last years burn and it was pretty awesome.

http://www.ezipusa.com/

You can find them retail for under $400 at Wal Mart. Many stores will have them marked down even further. I picked mine up for $225.
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Postby unjonharley » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:56 pm

Looks like I can cut the frame on the scooter and apply it to the bike.. Running the scooter drive wheel for a roller.. The wheel is 6 inches. If I peddle it to get going it should run like!!!!!
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Postby Lucidvegas » Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:44 pm

Cap! Do tell! When and where did you buy it for 225. I want one!
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opinion: will this count as an electric bicycle?

Postby Dolomite » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:26 pm

What's your opinion, will this count as an electric tricycle?

Image

Brought it up as pedal power only last year, and it worked great. This year I've added an electric hub up in the front to help get around, and will be arting it up to look like a roman chariot with horses on the front.

Both riders have pedals, the left rider has 6 speeds, the right has 15.

Scratch built from raw metal and 3 bicycles.

hub runs on 36v power, it definitely doesn't go very fast unless the riders pedal hard.
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Postby FIGJAM » Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:04 pm

It's perfect just the way it is! (Plus lights)
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Postby rodiponer » Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:05 pm

That's great!

How did you make that-- chop up three bikes and start welding?

I am pretty sure the DMV will have no problem with that since you can pedal it and it is only three wheels.
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Postby gyre » Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:06 pm

Should be fine.

Pedalecs, or electric assisted bikes are supposed to require pedaling to use the motor, but if you stay at the appropriate speeds and don't stir up dust, you should be okay.
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Postby gyre » Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:18 pm

Make sure your brakes are adequate for the weight.

Any agency could ask you to demonstrate this.
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Postby Dolomite » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:54 am

Construction started with a pile of square steel, some expected dimensions and 3 or 4 dilapidated bicycles. that bottom trapezoid shaped thing was the first part made, and then the creating of the drive line (5/8") rods with wheels a freewheel adapter chain rings/bearings and so on. we built up from there.

It's got 4 pairs of caliper brakes, that bring it to a stop on a moderate slope fairly quickly. I've been considering adding go-kart brakes to the drive line for extra stopping power.

Top speed on pavement is probably around 10mph, obviously won't get it going anywhere near that fast on bumpy/soft playa, too much hard pedaling to get going that fast.
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Solar Power Management?

Postby Robai » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:43 am

Could anyone offer any input about managing a solar setup for the week that can provide a charging system for an electric bike/trike?
I have two 175 watt 36 volt panels and a pedal powered trike. I also have to provide power to my small camper (Mercedes 306D bus!) needs for the week with the same setup. Am I dreaming to imagine that I can have an electric assist trike and small electric power for the camper off of two 175 watt panels? They are far better than the average panel, so this seems possible, but I am mired in the whole Ah calculations part of the planning process...
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Bending Tubing

Postby Robai » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:48 am

Oh, also... If anyone in the SF Bay Area wants to bend some tubing for their trike or bike project, let me know. I am in Richmond and I have a tubing roller that makes lovely curves in 1", 1 1/2" or 2" tubing (ERW, no EMT as it does not run well due to size). Lemmeknow.

I am building a chopper trike using the basic design of Atomic Zombie (look it up on Google), but switching to motorcycle mag wheels as that is what I have sitting around.
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Postby rodiponer » Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:21 am

Those panels are enormous, so you should have no problem powering
everything you need.

I am happy to do the math for you.
- How many volts is the battery bank on your trike?
- How many amp hours are the batteries on your trike?
- How many volts are you running your solar system at? 36, or are you using a solar controller that steps it down to 24 or 12?
- How many amp hours are the batteries on your solar system?

My bike is 48 volts, and uses four 10 amp batteries. This battery pack lasts me about three or four days at Burning Man, so I usually have to recharge it once.

I have two 135 watt panels connected to a 100 a/h battery. Which is plenty to keep up with the bike, fridge, lights, and art projects. EXCEPT that I don't think about the bike batteries until they are flat, at which point they want to suck about 35 to 40 amps out of my solar system. Which is way too much for one day, and would not leave enough to run the fridge, lights, and etc that night.

If I was smarter I would recharge the bike batteries after every time I use them, so that the bike would only draw about 10 amps/day (and the solar system can easily accomodate that). But I am not, so I generally end up plugging them into a friends running generator once during the event.
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Postby gyre » Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:14 am

The battery type and charger efficiency will matter too.
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Postby some seeing eye » Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:35 pm

This thread was posted a long time ago. Given BRC's flatness, it seems odd to bring such a resource intensive and theft magnet prone thing.

What are the values you are projecting, it this the most important representation of that?
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Postby FIGJAM » Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:48 pm

There's a lot of people that cannot walk or peddle all those miles.
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Postby gyre » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:17 pm

Some of us try to cover more ground than other people too.
I always have blisters for weeks after I get home, even using transport out there.

Besides, it's always uphill to the esplanade.
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Postby some seeing eye » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:08 pm

Those needing disabled help in their BM experience should connect with the successor to Hotwheels camp on the center ring. The leader of that camp-service is active on these lists and deserving support and volunteers pre- and in- event.
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Postby Robai » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:08 pm

someseeingeye - - I do appreciate your analysis. The sun charges your batteries for free. I already own the solar and batteries for my diesel Mercedes bus (22mpg on biodiesel). Further, It is fun to build a system like this and all of the parts can be reused on other projects. Many can be bought used and sold used. Yes, it is an excellent way to show what solar can do and a great use of my time. I also engage in many other projects and community programs and generally feel that solar is a useful and effective energy source that more people should take advantage of. Solar electric bikes will continue to be a valid and interesting subject here for as long as Burning Man exists, mark my word.


Rodiponer - thank you for your kind offer.
Here is some information on what I have going so far:
Bus solar;
The 2 36 volt panels are hooked up to a Dingo charge controller that steps them down to 12 volts to charge the house batteries.
I have three deep cycle lead acid batteries on the house system and two more for backup if I need to add them to build capacity.
Trike:
I have not purchased the motor, controller or batteries for the trike yet as I am in the process of building the trike now so I want to determine what would be optimal.
Would you suggest 48 volt with 4 10ah batteries as optimal, or would 36v be effective enough? (the trike is pretty heavy and I weigh in at about 185lbs, so perhaps 300lbs total weight)
An alternate charge system might entail using one 36v panel solely for the trike and setting up a 36 volt motor, batteries and controller to match. This could probably be done with fewer components which would lower the cost. What do you think?
I appreciate your real world experience with a similar system. Thanks for your input.
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Postby gyre » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:53 pm

The forums may be useful for the more advanced questions.

It depends on the motor.
I have seen 36 volt motors used at 48 volts, but this was on a light bike.
Sort of an at your own risk thing.
Usually higher voltage systems have more torque, but not necessarily.

As you know, the higher the voltage, the more battery cells, and the more weight and possiblity of failure.

My good bike is 24 volts.
Most are 36 volts.
I have a scooter kit with 3 hp/9 lbs torque at 36 volts.
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Postby rodiponer » Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:01 pm

Hi Robai,

Your bus solar system is superduper. I don't think you need to change anything about it.

Do you have an inverter to make AC power? This is the easiest, most off the shelf way to charge your trike battery pack. Other ways are more nerdy.

If you go with a hub motor, I think you really need a 48 volt system. This will have much more torque than a 36 volt system, which you need to pull a trike through the dust at Burning Man. I like hub motors because they are easy to install, nearly silent, and there's no chain or tension to deal with. But they are geared to carry Chinese people fast on light bikes, so they do not have a lot of torque. You'll need to pedal to get the trike moving before you can turn on the motor and just ride.

But with a chain drive system you can gear the motor way down. So a 24 or 36 volt motor would work fine. I briefly had a trike that used a 12 volt motor with the axle touching the front wheel-- it had a ton of pull and could start me going from a dead stop, something the hub motor on my bike can't. Chain drive systems are louder and more trouble to install -- you need to make a mounting bracket that takes a ton of force (I welded one up for a friend that seemed plenty strong, but still twisted up when he used it). And tension and align the chain just right. And add sprockets so that the pedals don't rotate when you turn on the motor. But they have a ton of torque, the motor on my friends very heavy four wheeled bike could start from a dead stop.

I think 4x 10amp batteries is plenty for a hub motor system. Those will definitely last all the way to the trash fence and back, probably more than twice. And you can make them last longer if you pedal a little more... And, in that size, you can go up to 12 or 14amp lead acid batteries without paying all that much more.

With the chain drive system... Well, my friend burned through three car batteries pretty quickly. I think the problem is that because the motor could do more, he was having it do nearly everything. Starting from a dead stop takes a ton of power. So I think, if you go that route, either buy slightly larger (or more) batteries-- at least 20ah-- or have enough self control to help get the bike rolling and help the motor by pedaling when it is bogging down in soft spots.

Oh, and remember that the little AGM batteries get pretty mad if you discharge them and then leave them empty. I destroyed a set by running them flat and then leaving them alone for six months, they lost most of their capacity. When I pulled them out at the next Burn they didn't hold a charge at all, and I had to scrounge another set to use the second year.
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Postby gyre » Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:10 pm

Hub motors are built in different gearings.
Many are used for pedalcabs.
Heinzmann is supposed to have the best ones.

There have been some very powerful american hubs.
I'm unsure if any are still in production.

The quality of the controller and charger does matter a lot.
Most hubmotors don't really have a controller, but more of an on/off switch.
Far less efficient, and annoying.
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Postby FIGJAM » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:23 pm

Robia, check your PM.

I sent some info.
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Postby Robai » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:30 am

Thank you all for your input. I will cogitate and ponder as I finish the frame for the trike. Cheers.
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Postby unjonharley » Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:02 am

/
{ need to buy or make a "wrap around wheel" bike rack. Just can't find a picture of one.. The front bumper on the van is plastic.. It has two bolts to the uotside.. So will need two wheel holders for a 20 inch folding bike w/electric assost. It will make it easy for me to lift on and off the van..

Any ideas :idea: :?:
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Postby gyre » Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:12 am

They make front receivers for most things, or you can make your own.
I like having two receiver inserts rather than one center one.

Can you remove your battery packs before lifting the bike?
I've seen some racks that hinge down in a way that could be damped.
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Postby unjonharley » Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:47 am

gyre wrote:They make front receivers for most things, or you can make your own.
I like having two receiver inserts rather than one center one.

Can you remove your battery packs before lifting the bike?
I've seen some racks that hinge down in a way that could be damped.


I was looking for the word receiver.. Yes planing on two.
The bike is not to heavy for me to lift. I have put it on a rear hanger type carrier.. Just lift and kind of fall forward. I keep the canes near. with retractable reels on my belt..

A picture would help.. I could get it welded u[..
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Postby unjonharley » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:13 am

unjonharley wrote:/
{ need to buy or make a "wrap around wheel" bike rack. Just can't find a picture of one.. The front bumper on the van is plastic.. It has two bolts to the uotside.. So will need two wheel holders for a 20 inch folding bike w/electric assost. It will make it easy for me to lift on and off the van..

Any ideas :idea: :?:


Found it :!: .. It is called a wheel tray and sell for about 17$ :D
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Postby gyre » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:24 am

Mac's is supposed to have the best variety of tiedowns.
May have something useful.
http://www.macscustomtiedowns.com/


My rack hinges down.
Some lower level to the ground.
Would that be useful?
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Postby some seeing eye » Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:00 pm

As anyone knows BM is flat and level, easy to get around by people power.

Let's divide responses between disabled individuals and BM tech as identity individuals. Disabled people might connect with the wheelchair camp, formerly Hot Wheelz, on the center camp ring.

Others can carry on in this thread as they like.
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Postby unjonharley » Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:26 pm

some seeing eye wrote:As anyone knows BM is flat and level, easy to get around by people power.

Let's divide responses between disabled individuals and BM tech as identity individuals. Disabled people might connect with the wheelchair camp, formerly Hot Wheelz, on the center camp ring.

Others can carry on in this thread as they like.


:?: :?: HUH :?: :?:

How about you g0o fuck yourself..
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