For all those towing trailers...

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Postby Captain Goddammit » Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:24 am

That's one of the coolest camp trailers I've ever seen!

Since you mentioned dust control... I have managed to achieve the supposedly impossible dust-free home every year at BM with two tactics: Honda generator (quiet!) and A/C, keeping windows shut and carefully sealing everything that can leak dust, and my favorite trick - a second-hand "Rainbow" vacuum cleaner. That's one of those things they originally sold for ridiculous prices door-to-door, now available on Craigslist, that uses a bowl of water as a filter instead of a bag. It's the only effective playa dust filter/remover I've seen. I just turn the thing on and run it a while when I'm outside somewhere, and it pulls the dust out of the air.
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Postby Bling » Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:32 am

I'll look for one!
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Postby DiveDogFLL » Tue May 04, 2010 7:15 pm

shade tree trailer tongue weight
..

..
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..
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Postby DiveDogFLL » Tue May 04, 2010 7:28 pm

Bling wrote:Don't know if the trailer has shocks. :shock: Good question! Our welder friend is always up for making some extra cash. We'll check.


-most trailers have springs, and they do get tired, and need replacing after many years of use.

check the clearance between the axle and the trailer frame. once fully loaded.
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Postby Bling » Tue May 04, 2010 9:32 pm

Most trailers have springs, and they do get tired, and need replacing after many years of use. Check the clearance between the axle and the trailer frame. once fully loaded.


Our trailer has only had ONE season of use. :D
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Postby EmilyD » Wed May 05, 2010 12:15 am

BLING!

I LOVE your gypsy trailer! WOW! I want a tour in September okay? I'll give you one too. Meet the Candy Home:http://www.flickr.com/photos/70423810@N00/2624870005/
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Postby much2naughty2 » Wed May 05, 2010 9:13 am

I was really worried about towing my new trailer 800 miles home from the dealer because of weight and sway. I got some good advice from friends and bought an Eazlift weight distributing hitch. Wow whata relief. If your going to tow a bigger trailer or a trailer you know has a sway problem, you really need to consider something like this before you kill yourself or someone else.

Several years ago, we had a family on the their way to Glacier Park pass us just before the crest of a damn tall hill. He was doing about 80 and the hill was at least a 1/2 mile long or more. Long story short, by the time they rolled out at the bottom, the trailer was in a million pieces. Amazingly they all crawled out of the car alive.
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Postby Elliot » Wed May 05, 2010 11:12 am

:D
Image

A good case could be made that any trailer-towing should require a special license, and two weeks of school. As the countless horror stories show, normal people simply do not have knowledge of the violent physics involved.

(The same can be said of simply driving cars, but that's a different lecture.)

I finally read thru the long U-Haul story early in this thread. Most of the wrecks referred to were caused by going downhill too fast. I've seen it a "million" times in 25 years of cross country trucking.

The important thing is to slow down BEFORE the downhill begins. Then maintain that low speed all the way down. That's what the sign above is all about.

--

While I'm at it, I'm not sure if I have mentioned my favorite source of trailers... old boat trailers. This is simply because I live near a lake and the area is awash in them. But this is only for the technically savvy who can overhaul and build up the trailer properly. The point I want to make today is this: Avoid boat trailers that may have been in salt water. I just picked one up near the coast, and it is completely junk -- rusted to smithereens.

What you would look for is a rust free trailer with mounting flanges for brakes on the axle(s). Then install new electric brakes and a good controller in the car (Prodigy seems to be the "crowd favorite").

Repeat: Wheel bearings and tires, and SLOW DOWN FOR DOWN HILLS.
:D
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Postby ygmir » Wed May 05, 2010 12:51 pm

To add to Elliots sage advise:

folks often over look they weight capacity of tires........
if, for instance, the tire says it'll carry 1800 lbs, max. load capacity.
and, there are 4 tires, you can only safely carry 7,200 lbs, TOTAL, on the tires, that's at max. inflation pressure, and, tires in very good condition.
You must include the weight of the trailer in this calculation, so, if the trailer weights 2K lbs, your max load, would be 5,200 lbs.
Again, that's if all things are in top shape.
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Postby Elliot » Wed May 05, 2010 1:18 pm

:D
Very true (except that "advise" is a verb -- you want the noun "advice"). (Truck-driver and writer-editor -- the worst combination :lol: )

Very true.... Which brings us to... Trailer Tires. Avoid using automobile tires on trailers. They are soft and comfy -- not what you want for trailer stability.

Tires marked LT, for Light Truck, are a touch better, but you really should install Trailer Tires on a trailer. Spend some extra money here -- it is truly worth it. You might want to take the wheels off and keep them in the garage if you don't use the trailer often -- this will help the tires last a long time.

All this has been covered before in this thread, but I don't mind retyping it, because it is so very important.
:D
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Postby Elliot » Wed May 05, 2010 2:39 pm

:D
While I’m on the pulpit…

It is astonishing how often I see this:

Image


There is no “dust capâ€
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Postby dragonfly Jafe » Wed May 05, 2010 3:33 pm

...and even if there is a nice looking dust cap, and no signs of rust or dirt, unless it is your trailer and you know the bearings and brakes have been inspected recently, get them inspected (even if your the friend you borrowed it from says they are fine)!

Bearings dry out, and will then fail under load catastrophically (heat, followed by smoke that is hard to see until you stop, followed by tire falling off axle in my case). I was very lucky I stopped for the NDN tacos...wheel fell off in the parking lot...

Every time you stop, quickly run around your trailer checking straps and tarps, and also touch each hub (if one feels very hot - it could be bearings about to fail...) It is possible to re-pack bearings if you know what you are doing (most auto parts sections carry axle grease), but it is much easier to check them ahead of time.
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Postby Snow » Wed May 05, 2010 3:52 pm

I worked at a trailer shop for several years to put myself through school.

I'll repeat this yet again: Wheel bearings and tires, and SLOW DOWN FOR DOWN HILLS. I second the advice about feeling the wheel hubs, a hot/smoking hub is a sure sign of failure (although they may get hot from HEAVY braking too).

Also if you can't figure out why your darn lights won't work, check the vehicle, trailer and bulb grounds, especially if weird things are happening.

Avoid using the zerk equiped caps (bearing buddies). These are designed to purge air out of the hub for boat trailers, NOT to grease your bearings. You don't know how many times I've pulled apart brakes to find them completely filled with grease. We'd always tell the owner, you sure have been up on your bearing greasing. They'd always reply proudly, "I grease em every time I go out." Then we'd show them their grease filled brakes and the cost to replace them, for some reason greased brakes just don't work. :roll:

We also saw our share of rusted out boat trailers, ready to tun to dust over the next bump.

Feel free to ask me any technical questions....
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Postby DiveDogFLL » Wed May 05, 2010 5:59 pm

^^^ after about 30 minutes on the road, I stop and put my hand on the hub/bearing, and tire sidewall. it should not be hot.

check again after an hour, and every time I stop.

I've had a hub failure too, (boat trl), now I carry a hub and bearing set. they have them ready to go at most marine stores... but you need to know the axle inner and outer diameter size.
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Postby EspressoDude » Wed May 05, 2010 6:50 pm

re: Elliot and hills; go no faster down the hill than you can go up the same hill; even slower. A vehicles brakes are 'generally' sized according to vehicle weight and horsepower. Why would ford or gm put bigger brakes on a vehicle that can only go, say 80mph empty on a flat road, than it takes to stop in a safe distance. If that same vehicle can only go 30 up a hill with a trailer, it only has enough brakes to stop going down that same hill at 30....

example is Cedar Pass. Pedal to the metal up hill west side is 45, east side about 35. Better not go downhill any faster or you are DOOMED
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Postby Bling » Wed May 05, 2010 9:26 pm

EmilyD wrote:BLING!

I LOVE your gypsy trailer! WOW! I want a tour in September okay? I'll give you one too. Meet the Candy Home:http://www.flickr.com/photos/70423810@N00/2624870005/

You're on! I LOVE your Candy Home, too! It's adorable. :D
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Postby Captain Goddammit » Thu May 06, 2010 8:40 pm

That's really not true about GM (or whoever) sizing brakes according to engine power. The brakes for a given weight class pickup truck, bus, big-truck, whatever, are pretty much standard, and a lot of engine options are available.
Buses and big-rig trucks also usually have retarders and/or Jake brakes.
My Peterbilt has a big Caterpillar that will haul ass up a mountain pass.
The real rule is don't go down the mountain at a speed faster then you can hold WITHOUT USING your brakes. You never use your brakes to hold speed going down a pass, you'll get 'em hot and they'll fade away.
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Postby gyre » Thu May 06, 2010 9:37 pm

There is definitely no exact pattern to brakes.
Some brakes suck.

Also, as tires improve, it is possible to overdrive brakes that were overkill when designed.

Much can be done with brake pad selection.
Sometimes a great deal.
On some older cars cryo and slotted rotors are available.
I run the napa superduty pads on my big ford.
When we first tested them, they outperformed the high dollar carbon pads.
Probably not now though.
They run cold when it's below fifty for one stop and then behave normally.
They offer them for many trucks.

If you can get brembo for your vehicle, rotors or pads, it's worth considering.
Brembos have been utterly flawless for me.

Many vehicles offer massive brake upgrades.
Check the tuner market.
This used to be very difficult.

On trailer tires, they are supposed to track better than car tires too.
Tire Rack, etc offers name brands cheap.
High performance tires can be used for high weight capacity if you go by the weight rating and don't use those insane ratios for a low sidewall.

And caution about chains.
Get good ones.
Be careful of the length.
My friend saw some overly long ones flip a trailer on TOP of a car in a dip.
Totaled the car.

I recently used my utility trailer to move a lot of lumber.
Had it stacked 4-5 feet high.
Tracked perfectly.
Why?
It has an antisway bar built into the suspension.

If you want to tow long distance, your trailer and your tow vehicle should use antisway bars.
This solves many "incurable" problems, and may save your life.
I guarantee it will lower your stress.
IPD and others make them up to interstate bus sizes.
It's basic suspension design.

Actually you should have antisway bars on anything you drive, except some semis and heavy equipment.

There's a reason my 100 hp volvo leaves some faster cars struggling to keep up on freeway offramps, and some suvs losing control trying, and it's not magic.
The suspension geometry was designed in the sixties, so no computer tricks.
Nothing new about bars at all.
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Postby Elliot » Thu May 06, 2010 10:05 pm

...WITHOUT USING your brakes...


Listen to the good Captain!

When I trained truck drivers, I used all sorts of silly explanations, analogies, comparisons, parables etc to get points across. One of them was this:

I used to say that going down hill is like hanging your coat on a coat-hanger. Once you have hung it there, it will stay there for any length of time with no further attention from you.

This, of course, requires you to start with a coat-hanger that will support the weight of the coat. A big ankle length fur will never stay on a flimsy wire shirt-hanger -- you'll find the coat in a wad on the floor. (...your vehicle in a wad at the bottom of the hill.)

So that's what the "trucks use low gear" signs are about. It means "trucks use big honking strong coat-hanger". The lower the gear, the stronger the "hanger".

When you begin your "career" pulling a trailer, you may have to mentally force yourself to slow down, and downshift, before the downhill starts. It is something you have never done before, and it does not instinctively seem necessary. But that's what you need to do -- hang the vehicle on a strong enough "hanger" that you do not need to use the brake pedal much to maintain a steady speed all the way down.

Anybody have a photo of that steep grade on 447 by Pyramid Lake? In my four years, I think I have seen a "wad" of a trailer in the ditch at the bottom of that hill every year, when I head down on Tuesday after the event. That's why some of us are harping on this.
:D
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Postby CapSmashy » Sat May 08, 2010 8:28 am

I'll be hauling a 20 footer, dual axle this year behind the Dodge with our artcar on it.

We hauled the art car base (79 postal jeep) up last night and it was quite the odyssey.

Had to make a run into town from our country place (25 miles one way) to get a new hitch pin. In the transfer from my old truck to the new truck, all my reviver hitches and wrenches made it into the truck but that damned little $3 1/2" hitch pin did not.

Hooked up the trailer and enter brain fart #2. My awesomely equipped heavy duty tow package new Dodge with the super whammy diamond plate rear bumper has a 7 pin rv connector plug, not a 6 pin trailer plug. After much caterwauling and gnashing of teeth on my part, the decision was made to load up and take the risk and roll back into town and find an adapter.

We rolled into the Wally World parking lot just as the sun was going down and secured a very nice 7 pin rv to a 6/4 pin trailer adapter plug (has both a 6 pin and a 4 pin plug on it), hooked it all up and away we went.

About 15 miles from the house a big, fat (juicy) raccoon decided life was no longer worth living and made a bee line for my rolling at 65 mph rig from the side of the road.

I'm not sure if this has been covered in this thread, but, despite whatever feelings you have about small furry critters, DO NOT jam on your brakes or attempt to make high speed avoidance maneuvers over a small woodland creature making a death run at you when you have a load. I nailed the poor little guy with both wheels on the drivers side and was satisfied in the knowledge that he had a very quick and very painless end of life experience. Judging by the carnage I could see last night on the truck only verified this fact.

Once we parked in front of the house, all four hubs were cool to the touch (still factory sealed) and the tires were a little warm (which is to be expected).
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Postby Elliot » Sat May 08, 2010 12:45 pm

:D
Yup.

I once had the sad experience of seeing a mother mallard with a string of chicks walk right out on the Interstate in front of me. When I looked in the mirrors, there was nothing there but a big cloud of feathers.

But I did NOT kill any humans by sending my 75.000 pound 18-wheeler cartwheeling into the oncoming lanes.

Humans evolved to walk. Motoring is an unnatural activity for us. We must concentrate on surviving it.
:D
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Postby unjonharley » Sat May 08, 2010 2:56 pm

Salem has two posted duck crossing.. The gesses take there sweet time.. They walk out and stop a car, then walk out and look to see if the next lane has stopped.. When it's all clear he will turn and tell the others.. One by one they cross 6 lanes..
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Postby Captain Goddammit » Sat May 08, 2010 3:31 pm

Elliot mentioned using old boat trailers and fitting electric brakes to them... that's a point worth note.
Boat trailers come with "surge brakes". They have a master cylinder on the trailer tongue; when you slow the tow vehicle, the trailer pushes against it, which applies the brakes. This is done on boat trailers because electric brakes don't like repeated lake-dunking.
U-Haul and most other rental companies also use these brakes on their trailers. They do it because they automatically work behind any vehicle without needing a brake controller and correct wiring, and because they are quite reliable.

However - they SUCK BAD for going down mountain passes! The problem is, there you are, holding your speed down the pass by downshifing into low gear, saving your brakes... but the surge-brake-equipped trailer doesn't know anything other than it's pushing up against the tow rig, so it drags it's brakes all the way down. I've had several friends using a surge-brake trailer on the BM trip lose their trailer brakes because of this. The first trailer my Land Yacht rode to the playa had that problem.
You can get around it by using the reverse lockout; generally, surge-brake trailers have a latch that prevents the trailer brakes from activating to allow you to back up, especially backing uphill, without having the brakes applying themselves as hard as possible. That also sucks, because you have to stop and get out to do it, and you can't use them on the way down if something screwy happens and you suddenly need them.

Electric brakes are controlled entirely by the brake-controller you need to install in your tow vehicle. You can dial them down under a low-gear-down-the-pass situation.
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Postby gyre » Sat May 08, 2010 4:11 pm

Can they be adjusted to deal with this issue?
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Postby FIGJAM » Sat May 08, 2010 4:20 pm

My dad invented that surge brake for uhaul. I think they gave him a fleet of trucks for his invention. Sorry to hear about that complication.
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Postby ygmir » Sat May 08, 2010 6:30 pm

the surge brakes on one of my trailers, has a sort of spring/shock system to keep them from bumping and riding to long......works well.
I like surge brakes, for the reasons above......they work no matter what the vehicle. But, yeah, you gotta lock 'em out to back up on level or up hill. down hill is no problem.
I think some have an adjustable friction on the slider part, too......
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Postby FIGJAM » Sat May 08, 2010 6:58 pm

Dad wrote the repair manuals for uhaul and he and mr. Butler invented this brake.

Image
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Postby motskyroonmatick » Sat May 08, 2010 9:58 pm

FIGJAM wrote:Dad wrote the repair manuals for uhaul and he and mr. Butler invented this brake.

Image


That is fucking cool FIGJAM!
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Postby Snow » Sat May 08, 2010 11:08 pm

Right on FIGJAM.

There is a solenoid valve you can add in the brake line. When its activated it locks out the brakes. Its usually tied to the reverse lights on the tow vehicle. I suppose if one was so inclined they could add it to a switch that could turn off the brakes. Just don't engage it when the brakes are on or they'd be locked ON! I'm sure its not DOT approved to use it like that though.
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Postby FIGJAM » Sun May 09, 2010 5:43 am

I think the trailers say not to go faster than 45mph right on them. Now im wondering if its because of this brake.
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