Why weren't we placed?

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Why weren't we placed?

Postby PlayaPatrol » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:00 am

57 camps and villages submitting applications, including ours, reincarnation and penence , weren't placed with no explanation. This is despite a reported lack of tickets for theme camp members. are all the placed theme camps going to be half staffed but with 100% of the land they asked for? What gives? Do any placed camps want to merge with us?
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby BBadger » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:38 am

I thought most theme camps had their ranks filled in with that "directed distribution" program.

Why your camp wasn't selected? I wager it is because you touch yourself at night.
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby AntiM » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:02 am

Every year there are theme camps which do not get placement. Even Hushville wasn't initially placed last year, it happens.
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby lemur » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:06 am

dont forget theres more people at burning man this year as well..

if the 2011 census is any judge (it probably isnt):

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then there might be another few thousand theme campers in 2012 than there were in 2011..

not every camp that was applying this year had previous experience so they might not have had any access to tickets but still were able to be placed..
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby junglesmacks » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:20 am

I have a feeling too that theme camp registrations were WAY up this year due to the prospect of gaining tickets via the 10k directed distribution. Way more than there was reserved space for.
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby Sail Man » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:25 am

junglesmacks wrote:I have a feeling too that theme camp registrations were WAY up this year due to the prospect of gaining tickets via the 10k directed distribution. Way more than there was reserved space for.


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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby Elderberry » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:05 am

junglesmacks wrote:I have a feeling too that theme camp registrations were WAY up this year due to the prospect of gaining tickets via the 10k directed distribution. Way more than there was reserved space for.

That can't be true. Nobody knew about the direct distribution until after the fact.
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby Dr Jet Sinister » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:13 am

jkisha wrote:
junglesmacks wrote:I have a feeling too that theme camp registrations were WAY up this year due to the prospect of gaining tickets via the 10k directed distribution. Way more than there was reserved space for.

That can't be true. Nobody knew about the direct distribution until after the fact.

We did know. We were told to have our apps in by the 8th to qualify for directed tickets.
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby lemur » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:16 am

the 10,000 tickets and the placement form for theme camps happened on the same day.. didnt they ?

we want to encourage you to register your camp, though it appears currently that you do not have enough tickets for even your core people. We do not want you to miss the opportunity to register your camp, should solutions to your ticket shortage appear after the April 26th Placement registration deadline. The Placement questionnaire goes live in nine days: on Wednesday February 15th at noon Pacific Time. -placement-newsletter-announce on feb6th


Burning Man Update: The Jack Rabbit Speaks
Volume 16, Issue #13
February 15, 2012

We have made the difficult decision to take the 10,000 tickets that were slated to be sold via the Secondary Open Sale and manually redirect them to some of the vital groups and collaborations that make up Black Rock City: volunteers, theme camps, mutant vehicles, art installations and performance groups
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby trilobyte » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:24 am

I'm sorry to hear that your camp was not placed. Your primary contact should read through the last couple newsletters that placement sent out, they explained a bit more about why some camps either did not receive the placement they asked for or were not placed.

The lack of tickets for theme camps was back at the beginning of February. Since then, a number of camps have benefitted from directed distribution (which would have covered the essential core members), their campmates have been resourceful in finding tickets in the aftermarket, and they've recruited new members. Anecdotally (from talking to other theme camp organizers), the majority of camps (my own included) were seriously stepping up their plans and participation this year.
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby Dr Jet Sinister » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:26 am

I could have my date wrong, but the 8th sounds right. I know it was a scramble to have them in within a very short time frame after the forms went live to be considered for directed tickets. Then placement pulls up their database to see if you were a camp that didn't suck and put you on the list. If you had any blots on your record with placement, it's doubtful you would have gotten a call.
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby junglesmacks » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:28 am

lemur wrote:the 10,000 tickets and the placement form for theme camps happened on the same day.. didnt they ?

we want to encourage you to register your camp, though it appears currently that you do not have enough tickets for even your core people. We do not want you to miss the opportunity to register your camp, should solutions to your ticket shortage appear after the April 26th Placement registration deadline. The Placement questionnaire goes live in nine days: on Wednesday February 15th at noon Pacific Time. -placement-newsletter-announce on feb6th


Burning Man Update: The Jack Rabbit Speaks
Volume 16, Issue #13
February 15, 2012

We have made the difficult decision to take the 10,000 tickets that were slated to be sold via the Secondary Open Sale and manually redirect them to some of the vital groups and collaborations that make up Black Rock City: volunteers, theme camps, mutant vehicles, art installations and performance groups


Exactly. There was over 2 months between the time that it was announced that there would be a directed distribution and the deadline for camp registration.
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby trilobyte » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:30 am

My understanding is that the number of camps requesting placement was in line with the city's population. The number of questionnaires filled out early was way up, but directed ticket distribution did not cause a flood of new registrations (remember, only camps who had previously been registered theme camps were eligible to participate).
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby junglesmacks » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:36 am

trilobyte wrote:My understanding is that the number of camps requesting placement was in line with the city's population. The number of questionnaires filled out early was way up, but directed ticket distribution did not cause a flood of new registrations (remember, only camps who had previously been registered theme camps were eligible to participate).



Shazam.


Noted. Although.. hm. I still think that it had something to do with it..
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby Homiesinheaven » Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:42 am

BBadger wrote:Why your camp wasn't selected? I wager it is because you touch yourself at night.


sorry to rub salt in the wound but, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby mudpuppy000 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:20 am

PlayaPatrol wrote:57 camps and villages submitting applications, including ours, reincarnation and penence , weren't placed with no explanation. This is despite a reported lack of tickets for theme camp members. are all the placed theme camps going to be half staffed but with 100% of the land they asked for? What gives? Do any placed camps want to merge with us?


Where's the list of placed camps? We haven't heard either way yet.
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:35 am

Try the main site, link might be called "On the Playa" and 2012 Theme Camp list.
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby mudpuppy000 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:49 am

theCryptofishist wrote:Try the main site, link might be called "On the Playa" and 2012 Theme Camp list.


Hmmm, I see the list of people requesting placement, but not one that lists the ones selected.
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:52 am

There is no list of those placed. You are entirely reliant on people releasing their own information and (unless you want to do the work yourself) the people putting together the information released by people about their own camps.
There will be a sort of list given out at the greeters' (otherwise known as the map) but that will not include the people who requested not to have their addresses included. (Hm, I wonder--pay and play?)
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby StevenGoodman » Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:24 pm

In previous years the camp placement list has been "hacked" and released. It is not supposed to be public, as some camps don't want their location listed. (I don't know why they wouldn't, but that is up to them.)

Last year the BMORG got better, and didn't get hacked!

Sometime today I expect someone start compiling a list for published locations.

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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby Trishntek » Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:36 pm

PlayaPatrol wrote:57 camps and villages submitting applications, including ours, reincarnation and penence , weren't placed with no explanation. This is despite a reported lack of tickets for theme camp members. are all the placed theme camps going to be half staffed but with 100% of the land they asked for? What gives? Do any placed camps want to merge with us?


I'm not clear on the 57 camps and villages part of this OP. Did those camps and villages exist previous years?

To answer the second part, we actually increased our population by 50% and doubled our infrastructure compared to 2011.

All I know is our camp is bursting at the seams with 40-something very enthusiastic campers! We kept placement updated on our progress and expressed our flexibility with layout plans and possible alternatives. They were very responsive to our concerns and did everything they could to accommodate us.
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby trilobyte » Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:38 pm

Placement has not posted a list of all placed camps in a number of years (they leave it up to the individual camp to post/share their location, if they like).

My understanding is that some placers may still be in the process of contacting camps. A camp's primary contact should be hearing something from placement, one way or the other, by end of the day tomorrow.
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby some seeing eye » Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:43 pm

The map allocates zones for placement as you know and it has expanded, but demand has expanded faster. Just like ticket demand has expanded faster than supply. Early arrival for placed camps is likely in short supply this year, that's BLM.

This has given the wizard of oz, I mean Larry, the opportunity to require more interaction by camps, and depend more on previously proven camps, to balance the inrush of virgins due to the lottery being democratic.

For a philosophical view and discussion -
viewtopic.php?f=65&t=53772&hilit=growth
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby PlayaPatrol » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:17 pm

We didn't ask for directed tickets. I got the newsletters but they just listed possible reasons for being denied, not the specific reason we were denied. I'm guessing that part of it is that every theme camp asks for more land that it needs. That leads to those that are placed getting more space then they need and 57 not getting placed. Last year I saw enormous swathes of theme camp land half empty the whole week. I just wish I would have been told that my application was lacking so I could have improved it, included better map, drawings, better website or whatever was needed. Anyone else have the same experience?
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby PlayaPatrol » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:21 pm

The denial email I got said 57 camps and villages had not been placed. It didn't say anything else about them. Makes sense that they would be new.
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:39 pm

You do realize that we can only speculate and offer general ideas? As far as I know, no one who works for placement is also an eplaya participant. Even if someone were, it would be a little creepy if s/he did say something for all of us to read.
It might be worth working on a polite email asking the question of placement. If you go this route, I'd wait until after the event; people are going to be very busy between now and then.

Edited to add: Well, sorry, I spoke out of turn and have been corrected. It's a shame we can't know, but I don't know that we can make any better guesses, especially as we know nothing about the content of the application.
Last edited by theCryptofishist on Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby trilobyte » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:41 pm

I think anyone who's ever been either denied placement or hasn't gotten their ideal choice of placement location wishes they could get personal responses and coaching too, unfortunately the placement team doesn't do that. They do load the questionnaire's instructions with some hints on what's important, and had made several mentions that this year the bar was going to be raised higher in certain areas. If you want to try and do an autopsy on your questionnaire (a copy was sent back to you via email when it was submitted), you can take a look at that recent placement email that talks about why camps might be denied placement. You may also want to take a look at this post from February for clues, specifically the 'tips for a successful theme camp questionnaire' bit.
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:45 pm

PlayaPatrol wrote:I'm guessing that part of it is that every theme camp asks for more land that it needs. That leads to those that are placed getting more space then they need and 57 not getting placed. Last year I saw enormous swathes of theme camp land half empty the whole week.

The Booby Bar never got the whole amount we asked for. Every year, the village would put together plans based on what we needed, then what we were told we'd have and we'd start putting together plans based on that info and then we'd get there and find out that the lot was some odd shape and we'd do our best to work with that.
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby PlayaPatrol » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:26 am

This is the vague email I got below. It doesn't mention the political reason "you're new, we don't know you".
Hello,
 
Thank you for your request for [ThemeCampName] to be a placed, registered theme camp at Burning Man 2012: Fertility 2.0.
 
We generally receive more requests for placement than we have allotted space, so inevitably we are not able to place all camps. This year we were unable to place 57 camps and villages. 
 
You are receiving this notification because, unfortunately, your camp is one of these unplaced camps.
 
What does this mean? Will all of your efforts and plans be wasted? We think not.
 
Although we cannot provide you with early arrivals, we are dedicated to keeping prime space available until our gate opens. Once we are open to the public, any spaces that remain unclaimed are no longer reserved areas. You will most likely find a very acceptable camping area. All we ask is that you ask the people around you if you can set up camp - there really is nothing worse than setting up in the middle of the night and finding out you're in the middle of someone else's camp.
 
Additionally, the Digital Directory in Playa Info at Center Camp provides a resource that allows you to publish your address so that when someone looks for you, because they saw your name and interactivity description on our website, you can be found.
 
Some of our decisions for not placing a camp were based on the theme camp criteria not being met (http://www.burningman.com/themecamps/th ... teria.html) but quite often, we just run out of registered theme camp space and are unable to place everyone who submitted a questionnaire.
 
Other things we take into consideration:
* Size of camp vs. amount of interactivity
* Prior year MOOP ratings
* Incomplete questionnaires
* Confusing questionnaires – (e.g. map does not match data)

We look forward to Burning Man 2012 with our registered AND unregistered camps.

The Burning Man Placement Team
(Please send feedback to placement@burningman.com)
 -----------------
we did have a complete non confusing questionaire.
 
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Re: Why weren't we placed?

Postby PlayaPatrol » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:28 am

And a good prior year moop rating
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