Plug & Play/Turnkey Camping

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Simon of the Playa » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:53 am

i learned from the Master,

Ron Popeil...
breathe deep, the playa is the dust of your ancestors

A gift for the Playa
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby retropsycho » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:58 am

eb0502 wrote:
retropsycho wrote:Theme Camp Forum #2 - with Plug 'n' Play as the very first topic

recording links:

Part 1: https://www.fuzemeeting.com/replay_meet ... e9/2318101

Part 2: https://www.fuzemeeting.com/replay_meet ... e9/2318153


thank you for these..

eb0502 wrote:i got as far as the 11th minute - when the question was asked
"would they not come if they weren't catered to?" ------ "no, they wouldn't"
then the person being asked blamed them on being debutantes.....
does that not just say it all?

You might want to listen past 11 minutes. Listen to the person from the Trojan Horse project talk about how they invited their wealthier friends to camp with them for fees, to support art.

Hope everyone caught the beginning when Harley said the Org has no interest in supporting a purely "Adventure Travel" outfit from the outside just using the even to line their coffers? Transformation at Burning Man can happen for the high net worth Burners too, but it's harder when they are catered to, no doubt. This is the point of starting the conversation. The rich will always be with us. No tickets or Placement for camps that are not interactive, giving to the community.
eb0502 wrote:are they ready for burningman?

Less than some, sure. Are Green Tortoise Tour folks ready for Burning Man?
eb0502 wrote:are they ready to be radically self reliant?

No.
eb0502 wrote:are they ready for a transitional phase period?

It will be harder, but yes, high net worth Burners have returned to the default world and made positive changes.
eb0502 wrote:or as previously mentioned "they're having a paid vacation where there happens to be cool art and cool people"?

No interest in supporting that.
eb0502 wrote:im pretty sure im not alone in saying this, but debutantes don't need to recreate the wheel on their first year, enough reading, enough planning and normal cognitive problem solving will get anyone through the week swimmingly, i really fail to see why their hand held is a deciding factor???

Agreed. But honestly, high net worth folks don't live their lives as we do. Not spending the time to prepare as we do isn't optimal, but they're coming, so we need to steer them to the best practices as much as we can. The transformation can begin with a realization that they 'did it wrong' year one, and when they return next year they want to contribute more than just $$$$, maybe consider a tent or yurt over a RV.
eb0502 wrote:my virgin year was 2010 - so its not like im a snarking old timer or anything

I want 'snarking old timer' as my new playa name!
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby lemur » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:52 pm

retropsycho wrote:I want 'snarking old timer' as my new playa name!


done and done!

...yep, and i can be 'angsty youngin' ?
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby H.G.Crosby » Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:55 pm

how about something with a little panache..

like Baron Von Angst Gefüllt Jugend


it has a nice ring to it.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby lemur » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:06 pm

im not sure if that will fit on the laminate
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:07 pm

It fits...
Image
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:27 pm

Nice choice of typeface there, Tom.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:40 pm

Thank you fishy! Was originally going to go with Ralph Steadman font..but it looked too neat
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:49 pm

Well, how could, in this context, go wrong with German Gothic?
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Inko Gnito » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:38 am

TomServo wrote:Image


Sorry for the wise assery, but: "BARON BON ANGST GEFÜLT JUGEND" is just wrong. Like "i can has cheesburger" without the cute.

"Von Angst erfüllte Jugend" --> angst-ridden youth /fearful youth
"Von angst erfüllter Jugendlicher" --> angst-ridden teenager / fearful teenager
So: Baron angst-ridden youth? No - right?

How about: "Schutzsuchender Neuling" --> refuge seeking apprentice


Feel free to consult this german with his internet translation tools for immaculate slogans at any time.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby CornMan » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:34 am

I thought it said "Bacon."
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:53 am

Inko Gnito wrote:
TomServo wrote:Image


Sorry for the wise assery, but: "BARON BON ANGST GEFÜLT JUGEND" is just wrong. Like "i can has cheesburger" without the cute.

"Von Angst erfüllte Jugend" --> angst-ridden youth /fearful youth
"Von angst erfüllter Jugendlicher" --> angst-ridden teenager / fearful teenager
So: Baron angst-ridden youth? No - right?

How about: "Schutzsuchender Neuling" --> refuge seeking apprentice


Feel free to consult this german with his internet translation tools for immaculate slogans at any time.


um...yeah

I guess that's playadeutsch. I did misspell jugend tho
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Inko Gnito » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:03 pm

TomServo wrote: um...yeah I guess that's playadeutsch.

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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:38 pm

Nicht den Boten erschießen.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Trishntek » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:07 pm

After making an inquiry about a theme camp RAFFLING a BM2012 TICKET to raise funds, I discover this is actually a tradition with some camps who have been doing it for years. This particular ticket being raffled was not obtained via the Directed Allotment.

How does anyone feel about raffling tickets for the purpose of fund raising?
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:37 pm

I'm all for fundraisers. If it contributes to a camp's interactivity..cool! And, with the ticket situation..why not raffle a ticket? Brighten up someone's day.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby BeachBum » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:42 am

I just wanted to reply to a few very previous comments in this thread, and in the main BM blog post, on this topic which talked negatively about the gentleman who organized the P&P camp chronicled by the WSJ article.

Regarding this gentleman, there are very few people whom i respect more. Basically, the next Steve Jobs. His personal stuff is well chronicled, but the audacity of what he has accomplished in a business sense is amazing! He's apparently a long-time burner, previously driving RVs up to the playa himself. The audacity of him taking the couple hundred million he made on Paypal, and, instead of resting on his laurels, he throws absolutely everything into starting two long-shot companies intended to radically change established industries.

His first company, Tesla, intends to make a go of electric cars. Basically, taking on the entire auto industry. And, taking on the FUD PR perception of electric cars that the auto industry sold to the populace, that electric cars will never be viable. The Tesla roadster got them started, and now the Model S will hopefully make them profitable. And hopefully establish the electric car as a viable vehicle. Wow.

His second company, SpaceX, is taking on the entire bureaucratic, cost-plus ridden, government-industrial space complex. The audacity of saying you're going to build rockets at a firm-fixed cost, and then doing so! Their next rocket goes to the International Space Station this month, with about 12 rockets to follow, for only 1.6 billion. Compare that to the bureaucratic cost-plus contracts recently politically awarded to companies in the TX coast, FL space coast, and DC areas to develop semi-new rockets. SpaceX could launch a couple hundred rockets for the same cost of what these new contracts pay for only two rocket launches. Wow.

And, to be the model for Tony Stark (Ironman) in the two movies! I love how the movies portray Tony Stark, how they well capture how everyone looks at him, like he's crazy, both in the personal sense and in the business sense. But, he pulls off unbelievable audacious acts to succeed.

Sorry, i realize this post is a touch off-topic now, but i just wanted to reply to the previous posts mentioning this gentleman. I'm totally against P&P camps, they obliterate the basic principles of radical self-reliance and non-commodification/non-commercialization. As well as take tickets away from us who really care about BRC, in favor of giving tickets to people who just want to attend a cool festival and are not prepared to survive themselves on the nasty playa.

I realize that there is a lot of snark on these threads. Please, trash the P&P concept, it deserves to be snarked out of existence. But, for the persons who snarked this gentleman, ask yourself, "What have you created in your own life which compares to what he has created and the people he has employed in doing so?"

Best wishes.

(BTW, TnT, imho, raffles are cool! Pls just let people know what their percentages of winning are by limiting and disclosing the max number of tickets to be sold. Thus, people can then make their own informed decision on whether to basically donate their money to a good camp or art cause.)
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Inko Gnito » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:10 am

TomServo wrote:Nicht den Boten erschießen.


ok - hugsies?
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:17 am

BeachBum wrote: But, for the persons who snarked this gentleman, ask yourself, "What have you created in your own life which compares to what he has created and the people he has employed in doing so?"


I helped create another human life. Am I worthy now?
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby catinthefunnyhat » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:21 pm

Trishntek wrote:After making an inquiry about a theme camp RAFFLING a BM2012 TICKET to raise funds, I discover this is actually a tradition with some camps who have been doing it for years. This particular ticket being raffled was not obtained via the Directed Allotment.

How does anyone feel about raffling tickets for the purpose of fund raising?


As a relative newbie, my opinion is maybe not that relevant, but their raffle post did make me uncomfortable, especially since I loved everything else about their camp concept (assuming we're talking about the same camp/raffle/post). I was curious as to whether there was any precedent for such a raffle as well as how "kosher" it was; I'm glad I wasn't alone, and I'm glad you made the inquiry.

I guess raffling a ticket was a very different kind of thing back when supply > demand. At that time, the value of the prize was essentially the face value of the ticket; now, it's immeasurably greater. What makes me particularly uncomfortable is the idea that a bigger donation grants more chances to win. Of course, the person who donates just $10 still has a chance of winning, but it still feels a bit like a sale to the highest bidder. I think maybe I'd be okay with it if everyone got just one entry in the raffle, regardless of how much they donated. I suspect the camp could still raise just as much money, but from more people.

Again, these are the gut feelings and embryonic thoughts of a relative newbie to both the physical and electronic playas, so take them with whatever dose of salt you feel necessary.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby knowmad » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:35 pm

TomServo wrote:
BeachBum wrote: But, for the persons who snarked this gentleman, ask yourself, "What have you created in your own life which compares to what he has created and the people he has employed in doing so?"


I helped create another human life. Am I worthy now?

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and i helped!

Postby lemur » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:36 pm

Image
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Pop_Tart » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:47 am

BeachBum. As a matter of fact, I am a former employee of SpaceX. I know a bit too much dirt about the company that I will never spill, but I will say this much... The management team of SpaceX learned their management practices from the Holocaust... Work your employees to the bone, burn them up, toss them out, and then bring in a fresh train load to fill the gaps...

Mr. E may be leading some great initiatives and being intentionally glorified in the process, but don't think that makes him a better person in some way.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby zer0mass » Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:05 pm

While I'm not the biggest fan of plug and play at Burning Man I don't believe that it will be the end of all things Burning Man. I even think that it can have some value. Radical inclusion means including everybody, even those who might not be able to go on their own without some sort of assistance. I can easily imagine someone that hear about the event and thinks "Wow! That is something that I'd really like to do but I have no experience camping and none of my friends are the kind of people that would be a part of this." This person might have the funds to go but none of the gear that they would need for a week in the desert or a place to store it.
Do I think that people that can only come if they use some sort of plug and play service shouldn't come? No, I think they as much as anyone else should be welcomed and and encouraged to participate in any way they can. How we get to Burning Man is only one part of our story, what we do once we are there is just as important.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Trishntek » Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:35 pm

Long ago I sponsored a contest in a youth group for teenagers who wanted to go to a concert. The contest basically required them to fulfill certain participatory obligations for the reward of transportation and tickets to the concert.

One of the lazy members of the group decided to not fulfill the requirements and simply buy her own ticket and pay her share of gas to go to the concert. So she went and enjoyed everything the contest "winners" did. Prior to the concert, it was put to a vote of the successful contestants whether she should be allowed to join us.

They unanimously voted yes and it all went along without incident. But for the genuine contestants, they actually participated and were stronger for the exercise of the contest. For the lazy one, she gained the enjoyment of a concert. I would like to think the contestants received the greater blessing and learned something out of the experience. Is the lazy one a better or stronger individual for taking the shortcut? I think not.

I share this only because my own feelings were to exclude the lazy one from enjoying the fruits of others' labors. By the gracious inclusiveness exercised by the contestants, she was allowed to enjoy the reward. Nobody to this day can ever convince me she was a participant but only learned she can buy the rewards of participation without actually participating.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Lassen Forge » Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:49 pm

Trishntek wrote:Long ago I sponsored a contest in a youth group for teenagers who wanted to go to a concert. The contest basically required them to fulfill certain participatory obligations for the reward of transportation and tickets to the concert.

One of the lazy members of the group decided to not fulfill the requirements and simply buy her own ticket and pay her share of gas to go to the concert. So she went and enjoyed everything the contest "winners" did. Prior to the concert, it was put to a vote of the successful contestants whether she should be allowed to join us.

They unanimously voted yes and it all went along without incident. But for the genuine contestants, they actually participated and were stronger for the exercise of the contest. For the lazy one, she gained the enjoyment of a concert. I would like to think the contestants received the greater blessing and learned something out of the experience. Is the lazy one a better or stronger individual for taking the shortcut? I think not.

I share this only because my own feelings were to exclude the lazy one from enjoying the fruits of others' labors. By the gracious inclusiveness exercised by the contestants, she was allowed to enjoy the reward. Nobody to this day can ever convince me she was a participant but only learned she can buy the rewards of participation without actually participating.


And made her a much better PnP burner... I crush you, TnT!


What it DID show, really, is compassion. You never know how the experiencing of her paying VS doing to go affected her - I could only hope it showed her there were different and more fun ways to enjoy something rather than pulling out the checkbook... and didn't reinforce the "little people have to labor, while we can afford to pay the little people for their labor... after all, we ARE better than thay are"...

There's my angst with PnP. It tosses these 10 principles out on their ear, and says "We can commodify this thing - worse, we support the commodification". We who think, and imagine, and build - the backbone of the event - become the serfs, the little people, working our collective asses off for the wealthy to come by our Burningland theme park, spend thier money, and get their way. UG!!!

Well... they walk up to my bar and don't understand why they can't have their choice of cocktail, especially when they're willing to pay for it. Worse, when we hand them a PBR, they say "No, I didn't order a beer, I ordered a Singapore Sling". Gak!

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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby pink » Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:36 pm

Interrogate the SOBs, BBS! Put 'em in the gulag and make them miss dinner and cocktail hour at their lux camp. Tell them it's how you participate at Apolyptika.

Torches and pitchforks! Arrgghh!

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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Lassen Forge » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:12 pm

--swoonski--

We shall keep them from accessing satellite interNyet connekt, drive off manservant and chef, and poke hole in hot tub. We shall to drag them to Kantina, slam into chair od confessed guilt, and force them to drink playa temperature PBR. Then we shall to shave off head, er, hair, and write obscenities on blad head such as to embarass them to peers... "I am the 99%"... "Free the opressed"... "Support Labor"... "I feed the hungry, and put roof over homeless"...

We shall to send on forced gulag march from point 3 on trash fence to gate and back. And then they... They shall to know... they are all fucking doomed.

(By way, with name like "pink" you should to be living in socialist paradise on playa...)
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:18 pm

Plus, we'll make them wear the dreaded "shirt of kulak"! So all will know that they are anti-Sovyet elements.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Elorrum » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:31 pm

oh is luff! PnP Apokakarma at the Kantina
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