Plug & Play/Turnkey Camping

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby BBadger » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:53 am

knowmad wrote:We had P-n-P Neighbors last year.
They Had No Camp Sighn. (They called themselves "Pandora")
They Staked Claim on 40 Feet of prime corner Property. 8:th and B That on wendsday became a parking lot.
They were copnstantly in our camp loung chairs to the point that we had to make a sighn that told them that We were not part of "Them"
They ranover a campmates tent while leaving sunday, destroying nearly everything. oh and then drove off with the Tent still stuck under the car.

Total Fail.


Those sound like plain ol' playa douchebags. What did they do that was actually qualified PnPing? I'm also not sure what the sign has to do with anything.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:14 am

stinkyfoot wrote:
5280MeV wrote:There is more to it though - the idea of no in-crowd. No special cool people.


I guess the difference between you and me is that when I saw PnP campers on the playa, I didn't think they looked like special cool people, I thought they looked like frightened spazzes. And that's where I come to the conclusion that if some people need to pay a lot of money to get babysat their first time in BRC, well, not exactly ideal, but I understand the logic. And if experienced burners make money for babysitting them, that's cool, better than outside contractors coming in who have no idea how people do it on the playa.

But since there's no oversight onto this whole aspect of camping right now, how the hell is anyone supposed to moderate anything?

If you want the entire BRC to be taken over by RV's and walled off camps then you'd better keep preaching for the org to ignore and exclude these PnP camps, because, I don't know if you noticed, that people do what they're going to do at this festival and no one really gives a shit unless you're doing drugs or making a scene.


Were not "preaching" for the org to do anything. Some of us are "asking" that they nip these douches in the bud. Control their use of Burning Man images, name, etc...for their fucked up business ventures. I personally would like to see them Not Placed. Not being Guaranteed a predetermined space would throw a wrench into their scheme.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Nipple » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:59 am

BBadger wrote:
knowmad wrote:We had P-n-P Neighbors last year.
They Had No Camp Sighn. (They called themselves "Pandora")
They Staked Claim on 40 Feet of prime corner Property. 8:th and B That on wendsday became a parking lot.
They were copnstantly in our camp loung chairs to the point that we had to make a sighn that told them that We were not part of "Them"
They ranover a campmates tent while leaving sunday, destroying nearly everything. oh and then drove off with the Tent still stuck under the car.

Total Fail.


Those sound like plain ol' playa douchebags. What did they do that was actually qualified PnPing? I'm also not sure what the sign has to do with anything.


If it was on the future side of 8:00, that's where the Christina was berthed until it started parking outside of Playaskool.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby PapaBear2120 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:13 pm

Elorrum wrote:
stinkyfoot wrote: Regardless of the fact that PnP's are kind of annoying in what they represent, they are a type of business that has evolved from burners, to support burners because of Burning Man. More reason to bring them into the fold instead of going on an exclusivity witch hunt.

This, and the request of Papabear to have "new principles for camps" so they know who's in violation, are such disingenuous violations of no commerce. Why not just open it all the way up, and say, oh, you know, the event evolved beyond that. If some can make a buck, and wink wink it's alright, then why pretend it's a principle at all? It's just a game of who gets down first.

As to spreading the principles beyond BRC to the greater world, being a good reason to make a buck off folks, what hypocrisy.


Sorry you thought the idea of principles or guidelines for camps is disingenuous. Thanks for critiquing though, I've been waiting for someone to tear apart something I said!

Maybe if I clarify what I meant by that comment it won't seem as disingenuous, maybe not.

BM states under Theme Camp Criteria "[1.] Camps should be visually stimulating. [2.] Theme Camps must be interactive. They should include activities, events or service to the Burning Man Community in general. We are most impressed by the new and unique camp plans we receive. In most cases creating a chill dome with music and relaxation is not enough to receive placement. Some camp members should be at your camp at all times in order for your activities to be as accessible to others as possible."

In the placement questionnaire BM asks theme camps for an LNT plan, acculturation of virgins, and interactivity level.

That's not much. It leaves a lot of room for interpretation and allows for PnP because there is no statement against that. These "for-profit" PnP camps (that others have posted the links to) are commercial organizations operating on the Playa. Whether they are selling something to me or you, they are selling something; therefore, they are against the principal of decommodification. When I posed creating principals for theme camps, that idea was based on something similar to the 10 Principals. A more defined, clarified expectation of how theme camps can uphold and show the members of our community the Ethos that has been listed under the 10 Principals. In having clear, defined principals or guidelines (certainly more than exists now), Placers can then hold theme camps more accountable for their actions. This doesn't mean kicking a camp off of the Playa that year. But it could mean creating a more detailed theme camp questionnaire that asks camps to explain how they are going to follow those principals.

I know the Placers are paying attention. I've seen many camps sprout up next to us, only to disappear the next year. Some of those might not have gotten such a sweet spot or might have been denied the following year. Theme Camps are required to say what they're going to do and I hazard to guess that a few of those don't actually do what they said, just set up because they wanted a spot. Those camps probably don't get placed the next year. I have to make a lot of guesses in this, I don't know how placers make their decisions or what the process is.

To circle this back, by creating principals, or even asking camps to explain how they are going to follow the current 10 Principals, camps that are primarily PnP or are following a for-profit business model, may be more easy to spot and then won't be given placement. This is especially important if BM continues to do distributed ticket sales in the future. I don't know if this will happen or not, but it's certainly a possibility if BMORG wants to allow "proven" Theme Camps back with at least a minimum core work force. These for-profit business camps should not be given tickets. Obviously, these camps aren't there to be all inclusive, they are there to cater to a client and be exclusive. BM's definition of Radical Inclusion is "Anyone may be a part of Burning Man. We welcome and respect the stranger. No prerequisites exist for participation in our community." One can use this to say that anyone, including PnP or for-profit camps, are welcome; however, it still contains the word "participation." There may be no "prerequisites" for participation, but to be a part of a event built on decommidification, how can "clients" participate when they have commodified the event?

I brought up a story of someone who used our camp and BBadger explains that he did a similar thing the first time; however, by joining a camp that models participation, they both came back transformed and desiring to more fully participate. What these for-profit camps are not doing, is modeling participation; they are instead, telling their clients that as long as they pay money, they have no responsibilities, including the responsibility to participate; therefore, defining more clearly how camps are expected to model the Ethos may aid in solving the problem of turning a decommodified event into a tourist attraction.

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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby stinkyfoot » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:47 pm

TomServo wrote:Were not "preaching" for the org to do anything. Some of us are "asking" that they nip these douches in the bud. Control their use of Burning Man images, name, etc...for their fucked up business ventures. I personally would like to see them Not Placed. Not being Guaranteed a predetermined space would throw a wrench into their scheme.


Hey man, next time you come to the playa don't bring anything that you used money to purchase, because it's fucked up that people actually make money in the default world selling things that burners need. And if you like to stop at a hotel from your way to and from the event for you comfort and safety, don't do it. You know those hotels love it when burners come through because they know they're going to make money. Oh yea, I guess if you have to fly there, it would be ok if you used your airline miles to acquire a ticket, but definitely don't do it if you have to purchase those tickets with money. This event is all about non-commodification, after all.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:26 pm

stinkyfoot wrote:Hey man, next time you come to the playa don't bring anything that you used money to purchase, because it's fucked up that people actually make money in the default world selling things that burners need. And if you like to stop at a hotel from your way to and from the event for you comfort and safety, don't do it. You know those hotels love it when burners come through because they know they're going to make money. Oh yea, I guess if you have to fly there, it would be ok if you used your airline miles to acquire a ticket, but definitely don't do it if you have to purchase those tickets with money. This event is all about non-commodification, after all.

What's with the straw man? The event is about decommodification (amoung other things) but we all know you can't live like that in the day to day world. Which, for some of us, means that we treasure the short week when the commercial/business world is in our face. If you have a strong position and thoughtful, lucid things to say, then you have a chance at persuading us of your viewpoint. If all you have is cheap rhetorical tricks, well...
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:44 pm

stinkyfoot wrote:
TomServo wrote:Were not "preaching" for the org to do anything. Some of us are "asking" that they nip these douches in the bud. Control their use of Burning Man images, name, etc...for their fucked up business ventures. I personally would like to see them Not Placed. Not being Guaranteed a predetermined space would throw a wrench into their scheme.


Hey man, next time you come to the playa don't bring anything that you used money to purchase, because it's fucked up that people actually make money in the default world selling things that burners need. And if you like to stop at a hotel from your way to and from the event for you comfort and safety, don't do it. You know those hotels love it when burners come through because they know they're going to make money. Oh yea, I guess if you have to fly there, it would be ok if you used your airline miles to acquire a ticket, but definitely don't do it if you have to purchase those tickets with money. This event is all about non-commodification, after all.


Here's a list of gear I've amassed for free:
-6x 5ft. T-posts (found in a trash pile)
-1x Sledge Hammer (gifted)
-10x 18in. pieces of rebar (found, cut and bent myself)
-1x M-10 Czech gas mask (won in a bet)
-2 or 3 Bicycles (taken from dumpster at work, rebuilt and repainted)
-1000 ft. of nylon rope (taken out of PG&E truck before auction)

..not a huge list, but it covers a lot of the important shit I bring out. Anyways...you're missing the point. "Paying for" or "Offering" fully equipped lodging on the playa, flys in the face of Radical Self-Reliance and De-commodification...not to mention, nurtures a sense of entitlement and general laziness. You may not give a shit about the principles of Burning Man, but many of us do. One of the things that makes Burning Man unique, compared to other "festivals" is that we STRIVE to exist FREE of commercial bullshit, Sponsors, etc...
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby bluesbob » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:47 pm

BBadger wrote:
bluesbob wrote:The very first guy to speak said it all. "We had 60 RV's and 20 tents"....Fuck your camp.

I always thought the harsh desert environment was a very large part of the Burning Man experience. It's only a matter of time before the Borg rents out Disneyworld to accommodate all the pussies of the world.


Do you shit in portapotties? Do you use a tent? Do you use motorized transportation to get to the playa? Do you enjoy the electricity and lights on the playa?

Fuck that "burnier than thou" shit.

It's like an artist bragging that he took 15 years making a painting using one eyelash versus someone using a paintbrush. The value is not in the labor and suffering, but the end creation. These lame insignificant measures of value, these arbitrary standards we judge people by and prop ourselves up with: have we learned nothing?


Bad example...as both painters are creating their own works of art. Now let's put into a real comparison. It's one person painting a picture vs. a person posing for a picture. Who's the artist? Survival as an individual and a community is part of the Burning Man experience. Paying someone to do all the work for you is not Burning Man. Fuck your KOA camping experience.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby 5280MeV » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:33 pm

stinkyfoot wrote:Hey man, next time you come to the playa don't bring anything that you used money to purchase, because it's fucked up that people actually make money in the default world selling things that burners need. And if you like to stop at a hotel from your way to and from the event for you comfort and safety, don't do it. You know those hotels love it when burners come through because they know they're going to make money. Oh yea, I guess if you have to fly there, it would be ok if you used your airline miles to acquire a ticket, but definitely don't do it if you have to purchase those tickets with money. This event is all about non-commodification, after all.


Well, yes, and the Shabbat is all about not planting, plowing, reaping, gathering, threshing, winnowing, sorting, grinding, sifting, kneading, cooking, shearing, laundering, combing, dyeing, spinning, warping, making two loops, weaving, separating two threads, tying, untying, sewing, tearing, trapping, slaughtering, flaying, curing, smoothing, scoring, measured cutting, writing, erasing, building, demolition, extinguishing fires, igniting fires, applying finishing touches, and transferring between domains.

Are we supposed to likewise tell Orthodox Jews that they should sit naked in the cold and go hungry? (does this count as Goodwin's Law?)

Just because you choose to live without an activity for a small measure of time doesn't mean that you hate it and think that it is evil.

In the words of Frito, "I like money."

I use money every day, and in a variety of cities around the world. It is very, very useful stuff. In Dubai, they use it to build ISLANDS, whole ISLANDS shaped like palm trees, with exquisite bars, nightspots, and amazing hotels.

I prefer that it not be used for just one week, in just one city in the whole entire world. I like to see how we can all apply ourselves and interact without it - just for a week, just to get a different perspective. Can we just have a single city? Just for a week?
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby stinkyfoot » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:55 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:What's with the straw man? The event is about decommodification (amoung other things) but we all know you can't live like that in the day to day world. Which, for some of us, means that we treasure the short week when the commercial/business world is in our face. If you have a strong position and thoughtful, lucid things to say, then you have a chance at persuading us of your viewpoint. If all you have is cheap rhetorical tricks, well...


I think I have refrained from rhetorical tricks up until then and have attempted to state my stance as clearly as possible, a girl gets frustrated sometimes, when as she can see is a bunch of people talking about why everyone who doesn't do it the 'right' way are assholes.

When I think about how privileges I had that allowed me to camp in the way that I chose last year, let's see, I'm able bodied (oh yea, just because someone is young and skinny doesn't mean they're able bodied), I have a great partner who I knew would be with me the whole time, I had a bunch of camping gear and experience already, I'm industrious and can make shit on the fly from raw materials, navigation skills, I make friends easily, I'm really comfortable in new situations, etc. etc. etc.

I dunno, I just don't think that the majority of the people who might choose to do it the PnP way are assholes, I think they're just trying to make it work for them. Some vets have carved out such a comfortable little niche for themselves I think they forget what it's like to do this thing for the first time, how scary it is, and how rare it is to come into it with some kind of confidence that you're going to survive.

I also think there is a distinction between paying ahead for stuff that you're going to use on the playa and enacting bartering or selling on the playa when you're there. It all complicated though, so I think discussions and guidelines are a good thing to have.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Trishntek » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:26 pm

In my limited experience of sponsoring a camp, I have looked at each individual who expresses a desire to participate, what they are able to DO versus what they are able to PROVIDE.

We have some who fly in a week ahead of time and help me load the truck here in Ventura. Because they are flying, I offer them one of my tents. Enroute to the playa, they buy beer, groceries, water, etc. and help us setup. They work out their own way to exit since they have to leave the night of the burn.

Others travel long distances and cannot help setup or strike, but they can bring frozen goods in their RV, extra fuel and a genset, special talents for camp activities or add an energy unique unto themselves.

A few of us partake in planning, preparing and supplying fundamental infrastructure throughout the year simply because we are able to do so. Is that not what most camps do? I honestly do not know! I never even saw a theme camp before creating Retrofrolic.

All I know is some of our members can barely squeek out the price of a ticket and have talents that shine through the week on the playa. Others have sufficient funds to provide things like booze, mixers, extra transportation and special "treats" for the entire camp.

Once we are all on the playa, everybody is in the same camp and treated the same way. Everybody works, everybody plays and everybody shares. Is that not what most camps do?

Now I will admit that I am treated like some kind of fucking god during the week. But I do dishes along with everybody else. Just because I get regular blow jobs from each camper,,, has nothing to do with my camp status. Those who bring very little still work hard and get as much free time as everyone else,,, well except for the hobbles on their ankles and their hands tied behind their backs.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby 48_love » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:34 pm

stinkyfoot wrote:
Some vets have carved out such a comfortable little niche for themselves I think they forget what it's like to do this thing for the first time, how scary it is, and how rare it is to come into it with some kind of confidence that you're going to survive.


What's wrong with scary?

If I can buy self confidence from a vendor, am I going to experience self reliance - forget radical self reliance?

Then, when shit hits the fan, isn't it likely that I would blame the vendor rather than look to my own preparation. It would be a sad conclusion to arrive at while rehashing the burn for what went well and what went poorly to merely say "next year, I am picking a better vendor for my camp." How is that useful to anyone?
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Trishntek » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:57 pm

If you really want some scary goodness,,, try hosting a theme camp your virgin year!
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby pink » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:06 pm

Well, I do remember what it was like driving up alone (yes alone) in a van that might get me there and hitting my first dust storm while waiting in line at the Gate and thinking ' this could really suck'. Fear of the unknown, fear that I wouldn't find my friend's camp.

My first transformation was the welcome smile of the greeter, and then managing to find the camp even though they hadnt put up a sign giving the address where they'd be on the post they said they would, so I just had a general vacinity in which to search. My first triumph was finding the camp in about 5 minutes.

What that did for me was help me to relinquish a fear I'd had my whole life of traveling solo without much of a map and I took that to defautia, allowing me to explore more of defaultia without that fear.

A PnP-er wouldn't have to go through that process. And it's in the process of going to the Burn, confronting and doing away with previously held beliefs, fears, and worldview, that the growth I've found each year I burn, has happened. It's from pushing beyond my boundaries, expanding my comfort zone.

Why would I just want to go to a big party in the desert when I can have so much more? PnP-ers are getting ripped off in more than one way. And the main way they're getting ripped off-hell they don't even know how much.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby forrest Gump » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:21 pm

The simple test 'is somebody profiting?' grow some and stand up against greed.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Elorrum » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:27 pm

forrest Gump wrote:The simple test 'is somebody profiting?' grow some and stand up against greed.

thankyou! finally.
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Postby motskyroonmatick » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:17 pm

Stag Camp would be all up in the P+P except for the

Not really Eh. Srsly. NO! We were anti P+p before we even knew what Pnp was. yeah lotz of waz to spell it.

Really. no way to stop it until it exposes itz self.then takez action. Pitchforks and oh yeah mother yeah'z.

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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby tattoogoddess » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:06 pm

Ok im only on page one but this comment "would-be Burners who wouldn’t otherwise have the ability to survive and thrive in the Black Rock Desert to experience Burning Man"

How the hell can they not? Are they 5 years old? There are burners out there with mental disabilities and phycical disabilities out there and they are doing just fine with out lux RV's, catered dinners, ect ect. How could some one not survive? They have the money to pay for all this shit and just show up with out contributing so how can they not go to the food store, by the stuff they need, rent a rv ( cause lord knows they are not camping on the ground) and join a camp and contribute. Imagine if those thousands of dollars they spent for ubar lux went to say providing food or booze or other what nots to a camp they are staying with. How many people they could "gift"

It is sure lazyness not to be able to survive. When you have money you can do it just fine.

Im sorry this whole PnP shit is rediculas and really loses the whole foundation of BM. It's like the "cool group with the rich parents syndrome of high school but now on the playa" I really hope BM would crack down on this non sense.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby BBadger » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:30 pm

forrest Gump wrote:The simple test 'is somebody profiting?' grow some and stand up against greed.


You can not profit and still plug and play. Though they can often be operating together, they're two entirely different things.

tattoogoddess wrote:It is sure lazyness not to be able to survive. When you have money you can do it just fine.

Im sorry this whole PnP shit is rediculas and really loses the whole foundation of BM. It's like the "cool group with the rich parents syndrome of high school but now on the playa" I really hope BM would crack down on this non sense.


TTG, you're also missing the "foundation of Burning Man." You're speaking like some embittered underclass whining about the rich. It's not about means. It's not about possessions. It's not about being burnier than thou with arbitrary metrics such as what amenities your camp has. It's about what you bring to the playa and what you get out of it.

Forget about the material goods. If you want to talk about foundations, look at what is wrong or right in the absence of the material goods. Without the "nice things" in the PnP camps, what is "wrong" with the people, and their outlook? If you want to talk about lack of participation, or exclusion, or profiteering, or entitlement--those are fundamental problems. However, complaining about the amenities people bring will get you nowhere. It's just plain jealousy at that point.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby tattoogoddess » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:48 pm

to be honest I think I would rather sleep in a tent then a lux rv. I wouldnt want to come out thus not meeting anyone. Heck yes I would love to have a nice shower but beyond that, nope. Part of the fun of all this is planning and roughing it. Yeah I grew up in Iowa, spent many summer camping in a tent making hobo's on the camp fire and throwing molten hot marshmallows at my sisters. I have never camped in a RV it is not my cup of tea. Yes I would love to be able to cook out there ( simple propain stove and be able to cool stuff) but it's not going to happen this year. I am just happy to be able to eat and take this trip. Even if I had a ton of money in no way ,shape or form would I want to be any part of this. Yes it is nice to have a little bit of ementies like home but this is just overboard. So no, no jealousy of this. Yes a bit of it to burners who are able to take a small kitchen out and have a nice shower. But other then that, I'm pretty fricken content.


"Forget about the material goods. If you want to talk about foundations, look at what is wrong or right in the absence of the material goods. Without the "nice things" in the PnP camps, what is "wrong" with the people, and their outlook? "
Why do you need a personal cook when you can afford a burner and propane? Why do you need a 60 foot rv when a small toaster will do? I mean it is a place to sleep really. And how much sleep do you need when there is always something to do? Why do you need a Bose surround system, satalite tv when you have the playa right outside your door? You don't need all this shit out there. That why it is wrong you dont NEED it. Somethings we have we dont need and yeah ok, but going WAY overboard and having overkill is stupid.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Trishntek » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:05 am

It's not about the STUFF. We are all in agreement that hiring someone, or ingratiating someone to cook and clean for you is not acceptable. But it's not really about that either!

IT's THE PRINCIPLE of the thing! LITERALLY! Participation, interaction, inclusiveness, true self-reliance (which may be interpreted many different ways), and unofficially,,,, GET DUSTY! That's the one thing that bugged the shit out of me in those videos. Where's the THE THE GLORIOUS DUST??
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Trishntek
 
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby BBadger » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:22 am

tattoogoddess wrote:Why do you need a personal cook when you can afford a burner and propane? Why do you need a 60 foot rv when a small toaster will do? I mean it is a place to sleep really. And how much sleep do you need when there is always something to do? Why do you need a Bose surround system, satalite tv when you have the playa right outside your door? You don't need all this shit out there. That why it is wrong you dont NEED it. Somethings we have we dont need and yeah ok, but going WAY overboard and having overkill is stupid.


Again, you're concentrating on the material goods. It's not about "60 foot RVs" or "Bose surround systems" or other arbitrary material metrics. You sound like a materially poor person whining about the rich. You don't get what BM is about. You're concerned with symptoms, not the source of sickness.

Trishntek wrote:It's not about the STUFF. We are all in agreement that hiring someone, or ingratiating someone to cook and clean for you is not acceptable. But it's not really about that either!

IT's THE PRINCIPLE of the thing! LITERALLY! Participation, interaction, inclusiveness, true self-reliance


YES! (I struckout the true self-reliance, as no man is an island)

Just as a slave for a poor man is no better than one for a rich man, so it is with PnP camps. Is an exclusionary MV from a "regular" camp any better than one from a PnP camp?

The only problem with going down to fundamentals: you can't identify and isolate the heretics so easily. That sucks if people want blood.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Bob » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:01 am

Again -- let's say you're the theme camp department, and a theme camp owner/promoter/whatever submits a diagram showing fifty or sixty RVs, and it doesn't show the RVs on fire or stacked ten-high or buried nose-first in the playa as an art installation -- that *might* indicate the camp is neck-deep in stupid.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby some seeing eye » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:02 am

A key control point are the playa vendor passes. For example, is the XYZ RV company going to have 2-300 RV delivery boys waiting in line for hours? No. They are delivered and placed before the gates open. How is the use of playa vendors tied to the theme camp application, and controlled at the point of delivery?
increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Bob » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:47 am

Maybe the theme camp & vendor applications listed them as "participation units"?
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:58 am

Okay, can we just stipulate that at this point I made a truely witty remark about "participation eunichs"?
Simon's real sig line?

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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Trishntek » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:02 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Okay, can we just stipulate that at this point I made a truely witty remark about "participation eunichs"?

Taking inventory,,, one,,, two,,, YAY! fishy ain't talkin' about me!
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby munkycmunkydoo » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:48 pm

This thread is all sorts of heartbreaking. I have no illusions that Pay to play camps exist, or that people profit by selling an aspect of their Burning Man experience so that others can benefit. I am just really bummed to see it now out in the open and the org supporting these camps with a "well they are here, so I guess you guys should talk about how you all are going to like them" attitude.

I don't hate the rich, but I do hate (yes, hate) the purchase power paradigm most of them bring with them. Pay & Play, Plug & Play, what ever you call them only gives them another frictionless way to push this mindset on us all.

With the news of the last year all over the world specifically focused on symptoms of commoditization at its core, and the wealth/power gulf it creates, and as I personally deal with these issues while struggling to work and pay for school so I can earn a degree (I am going to be an accountant, so I would LOVE to see PlayaSkool's books) it is just a little sad to see it not only out in the open, but passively promoted by the Borg. That last part really hurts a bit. I don't begrudge the wealthy and as most have pointed out they have historically been great artistic benefactors. Come out in all your wealthy splendor, bring out a 750k RV (or 20) and your commissioned and delivered MV, but leave the "need" and "demand" for paid servants behind.

To those "burners" who view this as just another untapped, or otherwise open market niche to exploit, I say shame. BRC and the week away from private this, VIP that, corporate sponsored, etc.. may have lost its fantastical lustre for you, but for some of us there was still belief, or at least obliviousness.

It is going to suck that first time at some point over the week while passing a super structure when that little voice inside my head is going to ask "Was that built for the community, or is that just part of those folks' tour package?". Good thing I have planned ahead and will have a portable bar with me at all times so maybe it will just be a perfect time to ask a stranger to join me in a drink and we will be able to marvel at how all those rich dumb asses are doing all wrong.

On a totally different note the second 3l batch of my special "Medicated Breakfast Blend" infused vodka is almost ready for stage 2, find me at sunrise.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby CornMan » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:04 pm

This plug & play business brings to mind the old west. But eventually there came a time where real survival skills meant practically nothing, and any city slicker with a bunch of money could move in and make things comfy. For the real pioneer, this gentrification stunk to high heaven, and he kept moving until there was no place left to go to escape.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby moonrise » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:18 pm

.........Pitchforks and Torches! Arrrg!.............
I'm the MAN in a truck, burner who is stuck, you're in luck! I'll whip out my BIG tow chain and not charge you, not even one lousy buck!
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