Plug & Play/Turnkey Camping

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Elorrum » Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:47 pm

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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby simoneski » Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:54 pm

Hi Eric,
The Classic Adventure packages are still advertised, they just changed the name to "Black Rock Festival".
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby simoneski » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:10 pm

Elorrum wrote:Image

:lol:
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby BBadger » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:30 pm

bluesbob wrote:The very first guy to speak said it all. "We had 60 RV's and 20 tents"....Fuck your camp.

I always thought the harsh desert environment was a very large part of the Burning Man experience. It's only a matter of time before the Borg rents out Disneyworld to accommodate all the pussies of the world.


Do you shit in portapotties? Do you use a tent? Do you use motorized transportation to get to the playa? Do you enjoy the electricity and lights on the playa?

Fuck that "burnier than thou" shit.

It's like an artist bragging that he took 15 years making a painting using one eyelash versus someone using a paintbrush. The value is not in the labor and suffering, but the end creation. These lame insignificant measures of value, these arbitrary standards we judge people by and prop ourselves up with: have we learned nothing?
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Eric » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:42 pm

simoneski wrote:Hi Eric,
The Classic Adventure packages are still advertised, they just changed the name to "Black Rock Festival".


The copyright only extends to the names (Burning Man, Black Rock City etc), the logo & the imagery, all of which are now off the site. The event can only do so much within the constraints of the law, but knocking out the "Burning Man" name makes it a lot less likely to be easily searchable.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:01 pm

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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby moonrise » Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:31 pm

Funny stuff TomServo! ^^

I do camp in theme camps or a friends small camp, but I also bring everything I need to be 100% self reliant. Including an emergency 5gal kitty litter bucket (only very rarely have I had to use it).

Maybe these plug & play camps can add in 100% self reliant packing lists to the required gear for the PnP "participants" and have them go buy the stuff themselves.

I still like Pitchforks and Torches! Arrrg!
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby 5280MeV » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:35 pm

PapaBear2120 wrote:In searching for tickets, we had people not in our network contact us (some who thought they might be able to get us a ticket, some who didn't, but liked what we were doing with our camp) and wanted to join up.

We would communicate with these people, feel them out, and then if they seemed like good fits, invited them on board. Most of these people were not in Oregon.

Were they PnP?

They couldn't do the work parties in our home base, because they were hours and states away; however, they did join in on Playa and worked their asses off just like everyone else. Yes, they weren't as connected as the rest the locals in the camp, because they didn't know us as well. It required that week for them to meet us. But the issue is that they paid camp dues; therefore, they paid us money to set up our camp which they then came and enjoyed. Whether they worked shifts at our camp and were part of the interactive experience we create, they fit into what some people have called PnP. Unfortunately.

So based on Lemur's differentiation—which I'm not arguing is wrong, it strikes a resounding chord within me—by bringing in these 4 or 5 people, we became PnP. PnP is something I feel truly against for all the reasons that have been talked about above.



Lemur has made an large number of excellent points, but I think that selling a spot in your camp is not the same thing as PnP.

I think that each camp has to look inward and decide for themselves if they are selling spots, or just doing a combination of group financing by dues and being inclusive to strangers who also want to make the project happen. Just because your camp has dues and you let people in that somehow find you and want to collaborate doesn't mean that you are selling spots. I have no right to judge your camp, but I will anyway and say that I don't think you are selling spots.


Opening your camp up to newcomers, sharing your internal stuff, this is a good thing. Pooling your resources to provide a gift for everyone is a good thing to. It is a shame that everyone is now worried that they are running a concierge camp just because they let a stranger join their group and help out.

I think it would be good to separate the issues here if possible. The term PnP should probably be thrown out entirely. I think that the issue of selling a spot versus including new people who want to get involved is more interesting. The question is why new campers are paying dues. Do they believe in your project and want to make it happen, or are there just a lot of really cool private amenities in the camp that are not shared with the public?
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby FIGJAM » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:21 pm

Since we don't seem to have a clear definition of PNP, let placement sort it out.

Let them vet the camps and any that are deemed PNP get place on that large chunk of playa at 6 and the outer rim that always seems empty.

Keep them all together out there.

May even become a second city center.

Then if they want to participate, they can leave their comfort zone, and find their way downtown where all the "cool kids" are. 8)

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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:45 pm

One definition, explained in the video, is similar to this..
Image
...as a driver, I thought this was silly. But at least it keeps the number of idling trucks down.

..another, described in this thread is sort of a rental service. Where one pays $450 and up, to pick up their rental camp on the playa. That also includes on playa water refills. And, I'm sure it goes much deeper. What it amounts to..is a service provided on and off playa, eliminating the annoyance of hauling your own gear, and/or scouting out a camp spot. The logistics for survival are already figured out, all you need to do is show up.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Serin » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:51 pm

I found the 10min video non informative. Surprised that someone would make a profit off of helping others to come to BM. Any thing at all , favor or $ seems obseen to me. I was planning on setting up some extra sleeping and hang space as gift to other burners having a hard time of it. And to show desert survival without gas generators or RVs. The 50' RV next to me last yr almost killed me in the middle of the night when they turned on their generator. Really! I didn't get mad just suggested that they come naked next yr and recalebrate them selves away from the 24/7 AC. So who's responsible if someone falls ill to heat stroke. The ticket contract is clear about this. Maybe those 2 couples could just wear helmet cams and the their clients could stay in the comfort of their own homes and just tell them where they want them to walk to next. O.o
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Elorrum » Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:19 pm

FIGJAM wrote:Since we don't seem to have a clear definition of PNP, let placement sort it out.Let them vet the camps and any that are deemed PNP get place on that large chunk of playa at 6 and the outer rim that always seems empty.

oh ... that's just so center-centric of you. "seems" empty, doesn't mean empty. I thought it was the secret place for us less cool people, with our lack of theme spirit and OOOOONNNTZ.
anyways, I don't think PnP'ers would deem to be so far away from the action, out in the provinces, doncha know. :wink:

re: the term plug and play, I think it is well used here. Like a new piece of computer hardware, I assume the use here also means that you don't need to understand how this works, or need to know how to actually make it work, don't have to do anything really... just you know, plug and play. Which isn't what I thought Burning Man was about. Why do I think that? Because I read all the materials online as suggested, and the materials they handed through my car window when I got there, about what Burning Man stood for. This disapproval isn't just a strange consensus of folks who don't like change. It's a reaction to something that is going against what we were told the foundation of the experience was.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:36 pm

eb0502 wrote:a penalty of bad placement (and i mean bad placement) for a bad track record is more than fair, and in saying that, im all for forgetting Playaskool's track record for 2011 as a test tube year and starting a new slate for this year for them. should things not go to plan again, put them somewhere where they're out of sight / out of mind

fair?

If we are going to punish people for not mooping or having enough interactivity or what-the-fuck-ever, how many chances do they get? And how many camps do we want to have weighing on the event, how many walls of exclusion on the esplanade, how many monster mvs that are only for "customers"?
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:42 pm

TomServo wrote:Image

Chai Guy wrote:Hello Everyone,

I've been wiping my own butt now for over 30 years and it's getting really old. I'm offering someone the opportunity to join my camp and to wipe my butt for me on the playa for the whole week.

I realize that there has been a lot of talk about people being exploited in these work exchange offers. I'm very sensitive to that, so I've taken the time to list exactly what my expectations are as well as exactly what I'm willing to provide for you, so that there will be no misunderstandings and we can both relax and really enjoy the event.

What I'm offering:
1. I have an extra tent for you along with some prime registered theme camp space. You can take up approximately 25sq ft of space, plus your vehicle (sorry, no RV's or generators allowed in my camp).

2. My camp is conveniently located near all the major attractions.

3. Any schwag I receive (and I get A LOT) will all be gifted to you. You will never buy mardi-gras beads again, I promise. I also purchased enough glow sticks to light up Vegas during a black out, use as many as you like.

4. My camp has a name, but you can tell everyone it's your camp and you can name it whatever you like. If people ask "Is this <insert your chosen camp name here>?" I'll smile and tell them that it is. It's like getting your own theme camp without all the hassle of submitting a clean up plan!

4. Unlimited Chai Tea refills!

My expectations for you:
1. You will only be required to be "on-call" for 8 hours a day, usually between 9am and 5pm as this is when I take my "big dump" of the day. Being "on call" means that wherever I go, you go. Don't worry, you'll like the places I go, and we'll have fun together.

2. I really don't want to wipe myself at all during the week. So when you're not "on call" I'll be wearing an adult diaper and you'll be expected to clean me up at the start of your next shift.

3. You remain relatively sober during your shifts, it's important for me that we share the same reality.


A few things worth mentioning:

1. This is not a kink or a sexual thing. If it turns you on, cool, but I'm really just looking for someone to wipe my butt. You can be male or female, I really don't care.

2. I'm looking for someone with experience in wiping people's butts. So if you've worked in a convalescent hospital, that's going to be a big plus in my book.

3. You should realize that the most important thing is me, and my needs.

Thank you so much! Please send all resumes along with the reasons why you want to wipe Chai Guy's Butt for a week to getoffmylawnhippy@yahoo.com or just post them here. I'll decide on the winner later next week. Good Luck

An enduring classic.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Elorrum » Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:08 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:An enduring classic.

Well played. Great archive work there. Thank you.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:18 pm

YOu're welcome.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby shykat » Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:27 pm

Elorrum wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:An enduring classic.

Well played. Great archive work there. Thank you.

That thread always resurfaces ....love it..
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Annfan » Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:24 pm

I found another one (and told The Man about it): www.elmonterv.com. I think we can all agree this is a Plug and Play (or maybe we should say Pay to Play). Now how many in and out passes can one group have/get? Wouldn't this make it quite clear that these were complete packaged camps. Could there be a way that makes it harder to drop off x-number of Rvs? To me these camps seem to be takers, enjoying the gifts that everyone else brings (ie, bars, food, art, and yes, even the Baal mart tower to climb and get an amazing view of what you are and have created.). Maybe just make it a little bit more difficult for them and see what happens? Just a thought.

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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby moonrise » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:21 pm

How difficult is it for them to just get with it?

No prime placement should be wasted on these Club Med Camps. Please, keep 'em outta the 6 oclock outer rim road areas too...

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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby BeachBum » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:28 pm

Wow, after reading the links below, i now understand a bit better what people are talking about, some people have referred to the information in them. I thought that i read through this thread earlier, but i didn't know about these articles and a blog post.

One needs to copy them into your browser to view them. If the full htt... was put on these links, it might take a while for them to get moderated and actually hit this thread. If this post does go to moderation, moderator, please let this post go through.

Article from the Wall Street Journal about high end Pay & Play camping in BRC. I guess we were still on the playa when this story ran, i didn't know about it. This article has a bit of the normal Wall Street Journal/Rupert Murdoch spin. Thus, some information is apparently left out, such as one gentleman who was prominently mentioned drove his own RV to BRC a bunch before, who knows what Larry said before his damning-and-jumping-the-shark remark that "he has no problems with participants who pay for services", ... :
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903895904576544981864448602.html

A blog post from one gentleman about doing a gig in probably a different high end Pay & Play camp. Linked by a different gentleman on the main BM site Plug & Play blog post:
http://notesfromnow.tumblr.com/post/10158894196/burning-man-is-not-fair

A good article in a Santa Rose Jr College paper, probably about the same Pay & Play camp mentioned in the tumblr blog post, by a different gentleman:
http://issuu.com/theoakleaf/docs/issue1.1

Edit- links fixed, Eric, Mod
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Eric » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:52 pm

We don't care the size of the URL if you want to link, as long as you are linking to a site that's relevant to the conversation (and not a commercial site that benefits you or someone you know) it all good.

To make a working link just paste the full URL, including "http://" into your reply box, highlight it and push the "URL" button up above the box. Taa-daa, working link!

Oh yeah- make sure you have your BBCode enabled!
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Trishntek » Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:22 pm

At least they admit they're being elitist.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby cosmicgiggle » Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:51 am

I want to hop back in here a second to try to pull the discussion back to a central concept of the general way burning man "works" (that perhaps being the muddiest gray zone of them all)

All this talk of commodification and drawing lines, etc misses a particularly important point that was made back at the start of this thread; namely that the EXPERIENCE of bm is a shared resource amongst the totality of the community, both at is core and equally at its fringes. In other words, one group's experience relies heavily upon another groups experience and so on and so forth. Due to this over the many years it has become extremely necessary to have most if not all of the groups pulling the same amount of weight...so that in the end the community benefits together versus having just SOME of the community benefit while others get the shaft.

To explain it out even further, back in the day before the anarchist artists were replaced with scantily clad sparkle ponies a lot of these same issues came up between DPW and theme camps. For a lot of the same reasons, resentment grew between the "easy super comfy" lifestyles of the theme campers and the "work-all-day-and-all-night-long-doing-back-breaking-labor-to-build-the-city" DPW volunteers. The need to have the city get safer as it got bigger (a moment of silence for all those who died over the years) somewhat resolved this problem between those who "worked" versus those who "partied" as theme camps began to adopt the same ethos as DPW. Not content to just kick back in a costume with a beer in hand hours after arriving, theme camp folks begin to mirror the dedication and struggle of the DPW and that to me is when theme camps really took off...both in scale and rad-itude. All that involvement amongst the community was making the everything much more meaningful for everybody, especially the virgins who could quickly come to understand how being involved and working hard on something paid off in a huge way come the end of the week.

This idea of "effort put in = reward earned" was a central tenet that everyone from BMORG to virgin could relate to in a very tangible way. It was a shared value that was the foundation of the principles that the community would eventually adopt.

Then I suppose something changed, somehow, along the way. The idea that you could use your art, your camp, your friends, etc to make a buck *behind* the back of the bmorg started to seep into the community. Make no mistake, there are members of the community who are not sincere in their efforts...people who want all of us to continue to make the event incredible so that they can benefit in whatever way as they see fit. Some of you may remember when NBC was there with its 3 painted and nude "journalists" or even better when the Girls Gone Wild debacle went down. The community rallied then against being used for "spectacle" (read=profit) OUTSIDE the playa without their explicit permission. Now we have a scenario in which the community is trying to rally against those who would create a "sub-spectacle" situation that takes place ON the playa. It is no longer about mainstream exploiters filming topless women to sell online for $19.95, rather it is burners who are trying to sell the EXPERIENCE of the event to others by attempting to curate (fabricate?) spectacles of their creation that mimic the event at some level.

There is a very real difference in experience between catching a ride on Pepper's modest sized mobile living room volvo MV (fondly remembered) and being told that you can't get on an ginormous art car boat because its for clients/customers only. In some unsettling way, it is at that point that you may understand that your art, your costume, your camp, your naked body, etc is somehow being co-opted by another burner who has sold you out...and who also never asked you if it was ok to do it in the first place. I do not understand how it is NOT ok to take a picture or video of a naked person lets say and turn around and sell it for profit outside the event but somehow it IS ok to take money from a client who pays a whole lot more money to see that same naked person in the flesh now thanks to these "burn-entrepeneurs". So back in the late 90's $20 got you a taste of playa culture (via DVD), nowadays $2,000 gets you up close and in person. Is this considered progress?

If the culture is going to cannibalize itself for a buck, how should we proceed? Should we turn a blind eye because this is the future so we better get used to it? It seems ALL of this behavior is going to go unchecked, because most will do what Janus has done which is to point his finger elsewhere and shift blame in an attempt to create a slippery slope scenario. Should we adopt this as the future and have every camp in some fashion deem itself a "necessary business for interactivity" during the event? Should we all be sponsored in some way? Should we seek to become guideposts for those with the funds to float our camp ideas, structures and mutant vehicles? Should we combine our camps into 500 person megacamps which require whole blocks on the Esplanade for placement, replete with co-sponsors like Kickstarter and Twitter hosting daily events with a full fleet of MVs and large scale commissioned art paid for by the corporate sponsers? Was HellCo simply showing us what was to come?

My point is that this hypothetical scenario would destroy our current culture in favor for a commodified (at various levels and in various ways) burning man with certain men and women like Janus being the new elite point guards for these new on playa business models that seek to BRIDGE THE GAP (his term, not mine) between the artistic creative counterculture and mainstream consumer driven corporate culture. Its like when big companies approach graffiti artists to talk about "collaboration"...you know all that it really means is that the company will use the particular culture's art to sell their products to a different demographic. PnP camps are using the entire event in much the same way when they become middleman of their own playa businesses. Those within any given culture often call this kind of behavior "selling out". (and I am not talking about tickets, but rather the choice to use the community at large to leverage your own belief system in some way for the implied purpose of personal gain, be it financial or otherwise)

Apparently, on some deep level, "selling out" is the future of BM culture. Primarily because those committed to keeping PnP camps as a new "feature" of the culture are admittedly invested in figuring out how to damage control their choices in order to continue participating in this manner. So the old vantage point of "effort put in = reward gained" is being subverted for a new perspective that seems more like "effort managed/distributed ÷ resources available x comfort level = reward purchased ". Simply put, a commodity dressed up as a gift; a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Thus the idea of benefitting *together* becomes meaningless because the EXPERIENCE is no longer a shared resource and community byproduct. For some it will be the commodity and everyone will be commodified within that framework since in the end YOU are the product being "sold" to the "customer/client" since YOU ARE BM as much as the next person is...

*bonus questions: PnPs exist as an extension of services, so how can we re-direct these services and extend them to all theme camps, if only to level the playing field? Should playa placement be a reflection of not only interactivity but the type of services a camp might extend? (free services are exempt obviously) In other words, if we are going to throw in the towel and condone/allow these services to exist at camps, what ways might we come up with to effectively distinguish camps like this from others? Should there be PnP villages?
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby gyre » Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:15 am

Elon Musk has been mentioned a few times.

I wanted to add this tidbit.
He tried to buy a russian ICBM.
He wanted to fire it at Mars to generate more interest in space.

I want to repeat this, since I may never get to say it again.

He tried to purchase his own ICBM from russia.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby eb0502 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:06 am

cosmicgiggle wrote:I want to hop back in here a second to try to pull the discussion back to a central concept of the general way burning man "works" (that perhaps being the muddiest gray zone of them all)

All this talk of commodification and drawing lines, etc misses a particularly important point that was made back at the start of this thread; namely that the EXPERIENCE of bm is a shared resource amongst the totality of the community, both at is core and equally at its fringes. In other words, one group's experience relies heavily upon another groups experience and so on and so forth. Due to this over the many years it has become extremely necessary to have most if not all of the groups pulling the same amount of weight...so that in the end the community benefits together versus having just SOME of the community benefit while others get the shaft.

To explain it out even further, back in the day before the anarchist artists were replaced with scantily clad sparkle ponies a lot of these same issues came up between DPW and theme camps. For a lot of the same reasons, resentment grew between the "easy super comfy" lifestyles of the theme campers and the "work-all-day-and-all-night-long-doing-back-breaking-labor-to-build-the-city" DPW volunteers. The need to have the city get safer as it got bigger (a moment of silence for all those who died over the years) somewhat resolved this problem between those who "worked" versus those who "partied" as theme camps began to adopt the same ethos as DPW. Not content to just kick back in a costume with a beer in hand hours after arriving, theme camp folks begin to mirror the dedication and struggle of the DPW and that to me is when theme camps really took off...both in scale and rad-itude. All that involvement amongst the community was making the everything much more meaningful for everybody, especially the virgins who could quickly come to understand how being involved and working hard on something paid off in a huge way come the end of the week.

This idea of "effort put in = reward earned" was a central tenet that everyone from BMORG to virgin could relate to in a very tangible way. It was a shared value that was the foundation of the principles that the community would eventually adopt.

Then I suppose something changed, somehow, along the way. The idea that you could use your art, your camp, your friends, etc to make a buck *behind* the back of the bmorg started to seep into the community. Make no mistake, there are members of the community who are not sincere in their efforts...people who want all of us to continue to make the event incredible so that they can benefit in whatever way as they see fit. Some of you may remember when NBC was there with its 3 painted and nude "journalists" or even better when the Girls Gone Wild debacle went down. The community rallied then against being used for "spectacle" (read=profit) OUTSIDE the playa without their explicit permission. Now we have a scenario in which the community is trying to rally against those who would create a "sub-spectacle" situation that takes place ON the playa. It is no longer about mainstream exploiters filming topless women to sell online for $19.95, rather it is burners who are trying to sell the EXPERIENCE of the event to others by attempting to curate (fabricate?) spectacles of their creation that mimic the event at some level.

There is a very real difference in experience between catching a ride on Pepper's modest sized mobile living room volvo MV (fondly remembered) and being told that you can't get on an ginormous art car boat because its for clients/customers only. In some unsettling way, it is at that point that you may understand that your art, your costume, your camp, your naked body, etc is somehow being co-opted by another burner who has sold you out...and who also never asked you if it was ok to do it in the first place. I do not understand how it is NOT ok to take a picture or video of a naked person lets say and turn around and sell it for profit outside the event but somehow it IS ok to take money from a client who pays a whole lot more money to see that same naked person in the flesh now thanks to these "burn-entrepeneurs". So back in the late 90's $20 got you a taste of playa culture (via DVD), nowadays $2,000 gets you up close and in person. Is this considered progress?

If the culture is going to cannibalize itself for a buck, how should we proceed? Should we turn a blind eye because this is the future so we better get used to it? It seems ALL of this behavior is going to go unchecked, because most will do what Janus has done which is to point his finger elsewhere and shift blame in an attempt to create a slippery slope scenario. Should we adopt this as the future and have every camp in some fashion deem itself a "necessary business for interactivity" during the event? Should we all be sponsored in some way? Should we seek to become guideposts for those with the funds to float our camp ideas, structures and mutant vehicles? Should we combine our camps into 500 person megacamps which require whole blocks on the Esplanade for placement, replete with co-sponsors like Kickstarter and Twitter hosting daily events with a full fleet of MVs and large scale commissioned art paid for by the corporate sponsers? Was HellCo simply showing us what was to come?

My point is that this hypothetical scenario would destroy our current culture in favor for a commodified (at various levels and in various ways) burning man with certain men and women like Janus being the new elite point guards for these new on playa business models that seek to BRIDGE THE GAP (his term, not mine) between the artistic creative counterculture and mainstream consumer driven corporate culture. Its like when big companies approach graffiti artists to talk about "collaboration"...you know all that it really means is that the company will use the particular culture's art to sell their products to a different demographic. PnP camps are using the entire event in much the same way when they become middleman of their own playa businesses. Those within any given culture often call this kind of behavior "selling out". (and I am not talking about tickets, but rather the choice to use the community at large to leverage your own belief system in some way for the implied purpose of personal gain, be it financial or otherwise)

Apparently, on some deep level, "selling out" is the future of BM culture. Primarily because those committed to keeping PnP camps as a new "feature" of the culture are admittedly invested in figuring out how to damage control their choices in order to continue participating in this manner. So the old vantage point of "effort put in = reward gained" is being subverted for a new perspective that seems more like "effort managed/distributed ÷ resources available x comfort level = reward purchased ". Simply put, a commodity dressed up as a gift; a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Thus the idea of benefitting *together* becomes meaningless because the EXPERIENCE is no longer a shared resource and community byproduct. For some it will be the commodity and everyone will be commodified within that framework since in the end YOU are the product being "sold" to the "customer/client" since YOU ARE BM as much as the next person is...

*bonus questions: PnPs exist as an extension of services, so how can we re-direct these services and extend them to all theme camps, if only to level the playing field? Should playa placement be a reflection of not only interactivity but the type of services a camp might extend? (free services are exempt obviously) In other words, if we are going to throw in the towel and condone/allow these services to exist at camps, what ways might we come up with to effectively distinguish camps like this from others? Should there be PnP villages?



what a post.... 10/10!
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Wrath » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:15 am

I personally have no issue with someone building some extravagant camp with champagne fountains & caviar spreads for members only. The problem I have is when dues are charged & the remainder used for stuff that isn't camp (or even BRC) related.

That ain't gifting.

As far as exclusivity goes, it already exists on the playa without having to buy into some camp.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby moonrise » Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:05 am

@cosmicgiggle, There are many who won't post on this thread, for a myriad of endless reasons. [It's also rumored to be a lottery distraction thread]

Kind of a shame (most, not all) of the anarchists are gone.

I wonder if they'll buy up all the tickets and could future volunteer shifts be "go to P&P Village A1 and dance with so and so" OR "Go to P&P Village A2 and give so and so a ride on your bike handle bars" OR "work off playa pre and/or post burn for so and so's whatever it is" or you ain't getting in the burn this year.

My hometown was BOUGHT OUT in a matter of a few years. NOTHING is left (my house, schools, youth museum, parks etc) and it's happening to my current town now.
Yes, everything is temporary. Let the party roll, hopefully it doesn't roll right on over all of us.

Fuck exclusivity and in the meantime...Pitchforks and Torches! Arrrg!
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Trishntek » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:21 am

Wrath wrote:I personally have no issue with someone building some extravagant camp with champagne fountains & caviar spreads for members only. The problem I have is when dues are charged & the remainder used for stuff that isn't camp (or even BRC) related.

That ain't gifting.

As far as exclusivity goes, it already exists on the playa without having to buy into some camp.


When someone makes a blanket statement like that, there should be some kind of evidence provided. It's one thing to have a private party, M&G or event and quite another for a project to be "exclusive" the entire week. If exclusivity already exists, please give examples and share the information!
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby lemur » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:41 am

cosmicgiggle wrote:Some of you may remember....when the Girls Gone Wild debacle went down. The community rallied then against being used for "spectacle" (read=profit) OUTSIDE the playa without their explicit permission. Now we have a scenario in which the community is trying to rally against those who would create a "sub-spectacle" situation that takes place ON the playa. It is no longer about mainstream exploiters filming topless women to sell online for $19.95, rather it is burners who are trying to sell the EXPERIENCE of the event to others......

....I do not understand how it is NOT ok to take a picture or video of a naked person lets say and turn around and sell it for profit outside the event but somehow it IS ok to take money from a client who pays a whole lot more money to see that same naked person in the flesh now thanks to these "burn-entrepeneurs". So back in the late 90's $20 got you a taste of playa culture (via DVD), nowadays $2,000 gets you up close and in person. Is this considered progress?




yeah!!! this is what im wondering.. it seems like the LLC only wants to protect us OFF the playa..

(cynical negative view: maybe its because they dont get a cut of the off playa exploitation ...on playa they get the benefit of ticket sales, ..'participation' ..and maybe unknown non publicly known kickbacks for vending)

i will show this again.. from the Terms and Conditions ('back of the ticket') that we all agree to when attending

Terms and Conditions, Waiver and Release Form (“Terms and Conditions”)

In consideration of being allowed to participate in and attend the Burning Man 2012 event (the “Event” or the “Burning Man Event”), I agree to comply with any and all rules, regulations, terms and conditions of the Burning Man Event, including but not limited to the following:

*snip*

5. Use of Images

...Burning Man also seeks to protect [its] culture from unchecked commercialization or commodification, and to moderate an environment where participants’ rights to privacy, free expression, and creative immediacy are given additional consideration by our community.

These guidelines and agreements are aimed at protecting Black Rock City’s inhabitants and its cultural values; they may seem unusual at first glance, but Burning Man’s goal is to preserve the principle of Decommodification within the Burning Man event, and to encourage and observe respect for personal privacy and freedom of expression. Burning Man monitors dissemination of photographs primarily to ensure that photographs from the Burning Man Event are not used for advertising or commercial purposes, and that they do not infringe on participants’ rights to privacy.

16. I understand that: I must bring enough food, water, shelter and first aid to survive one week in a harsh desert environment; that commercial vending is prohibited



so uhm....... they seek to protect participants from decommodification and commercialization.....OFF the playa.. but dont seem interested in protecting it ON the playa.. at least judging by the assertion that these camps are "HERE TO STAY" (as Will Chase said in the recent blog post)..

We all grant them the power to "moderate an environment where participants’ rights to privacy, free expression, and creative immediacy are given additional consideration" in terms use of our images OFF the playa... but it doesnt seem like they are moderating an environment free of turning participants into a commercialized product on the playa itself.. at least, judging by the assertion that such camps are "HERE TO STAY" (as Will Chase said in the recent blog post)

I dont see why they arent striving to protect our right to not be exploited for monetary commercial gain while ON the playa as well..

..perhaps its this but in relation to vending and not photos/video:

Burning Man requires any party interested in making a commercial enterprise out of their documentation of the event or distributing footage beyond Personal Use on personal friend/family networks to enter into a written contract with Burning Man.


perhaps some of these camps already writing contracts to do what they do...

as asserted here in the Wall Street Journal:

Elon Musk, chief executive of electric-car maker Tesla Motors and co-founder of eBay Inc.'s PayPal unit, is.... paying for an elaborate compound consisting of eight recreational vehicles and trailers stocked with food, linens, groceries and other essentials for himself and his friends and family, say employees of the outfitter, Classic Adventures RV.

Classic is one of the festival's few approved vendors. It charges $5,500 to $10,000 per RV for its Camp Classic Concierge packages like Mr. Musk's. At Mr. Musk's RV enclave.


If there are actually approved vendor camps, and the WSJ wasnt just duped with incorrect info... I'd like to see the documents about such vending operations.. I want to read the standard contract, I want to know the limits placed on the vendors.. I maybe want to have a list!

I know that when video crews and commercial photographers come to the event they have to wear a Laminate and/or have a tagged camera,.. that way I can report them, or know when to avoid them.. if stuff goes yuckie.

Id like to see the "camp tag" for these vendors! (if they are in fact approved already) If they arent approved at this time... and these camps are supposedly "HERE TO STAY" (as suggested by Will Chase in the recent blog) ...I'd like to start seeing big CAMP TAG warnings about these Vendor camps, and vendor related mutant vehicles.. etc..

I think if the LLC is looking to protect my rights to not be commercialized off the playa they should do just as much to preserve my right to avoid being made a commercial product on the playa as well..



So the LLC is looking for suggestions to how to integrate these camps into our culture..

I have one!!!

Treat vendor camps like we already treat commercial documentation/media teams.

Make all organizers/staff/clients of vendor camps wear a laminate that informs all participants of their status as someone profiting off of the work of the other participants. Require all camps that are vendor camps have a 'camp tag' for their camp/mutantvehicles/projects.. All Laminates and Camp tags are uniquely numbered.

This follows the already in place model of the Camera tag/Media laminate system, so it should be easily done.



This way participants will be able to know right away who is who, and who might need special treatment in terms of integration into the community.


it would look something like this:

Image

this might be the best way to integrate these camps into the culture, ..full disclosure is best...and so is accountability

(sources:

wsj: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 48602.html
ticket terms: http://tickets2.burningman.com/termsofuse.php )
Don't link to anything here!
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:48 am

Image


the whole thought of Plug&Play is nauseating. If we have to accept them, don't register them. But, if we have to register them, place them so far away from anything, that they discourage people from buying into their scheme.
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..
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