Playa Lung Dust Masks

What to wear? What not to wear? Where to find and how to make anything from goggles to fantastic pieces of playawear.

Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby DoctorIknow » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:15 pm

I like this one, as when you are in a huge white out, it's as if you are in a bubble, the only "restriction" being that breathing is not the old in/out we are used to. (In ferocious storms, earplugs are a good idea, too.) It's not cheap, but the particle filters placed under the pink cover are very cheap, and the carbon filters are useful for off-playa use such as when using spray paint or oven cleaning.

If you have serious problems with your lungs, there probably isn't a better choice.

I LOVE to go out in the worst of white outs and dig nature and, with almost total isolation from discomfort, watch people dealing....especially those trying to hold down their improperly made/restrained structures. :twisted:

One could get a great set of goggles and an over the nose and mouth filter, but why not have one non-restrictive mask that does both? It is confining, and one doesn't want to be in it while dancing or in the tent, but when it's blowin' 30mph or more, WOW!

I carry mine in a small backpack, but under "normal" dust conditions use the great white 3M mask pasted into many of the above posts. It folds and fits in a shirt pocket.

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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby Earthwalker » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:32 pm

That's freaking badass man. I'm getting that plus bandannas and shemaghs or whatever they're called

Is that thing HEPA?
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby TomServo » Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:15 pm

Saw painted versions of this swiss coyote neoprene mask. Oh the possibilities!

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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby thnkfl » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:02 pm

I recently bought a comfortable half-face mask with P100 (hepa) filters. It has a silicone face seal and doesn't interfere with my goggles-over-glasses Can't wait to not need it on the playa this year.

3M Half Facepiece Respirator #7503 (Large. Medium is #7502, small #7501)
http://www.pksafety.com/parfil.html

3M 2091 P100 Particulate Filter (traps 99.9% of .3 microns)
http://www.pksafety.com/parfil.html
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby DrewDubious » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:36 am

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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby Canoe » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:09 am

DrewDubious wrote:http://www.dustbeegone.com/dustmask.html

• Effective down to 3 microns. Not NIOSH or OSHA approved.

65% of playa soils, the source of playa dust, is less than 3 microns.

Canoe wrote:particle size distribution of Black Rock Playa soils:
Particle Size, Weight, Percent
Clay < 3 um, 65.3%
Silt 3 to 15 um, 21.2%
Silt 15 to 62.5 um, 10.4%
Sand > 62.5 um, 3.1%
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby strange love » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:30 am

Silk bandanas have always worked fine for me.
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby mulch » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:51 pm

I would imagine that much of the 3 micron playa dust is perhaps stuck to one or more other 3 micron dust particles making the effective particle size larger. I think that is why a bandana, that would not effectively get out s 3 micron particle, works for dust. Much of the dust is probably in aggregates.
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby Schtev » Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:48 pm

People seem to really overcomplicate this issue.

  • Shemagh for most situations (see youtube for proper wrapping/tying instructions), purchased from military surplus
  • N-95 respirator (white painter's mask on steroids) if shit REALLY hits the fan, purchased from hardware store

I've done this for two Burns so far and its worked well for me. The nice thing about the little N-95 masks is they're the same size, shape and weight as a normal painter's mask, so they're extremely portable. Please note that the N-95 classification is very important, as this class of mask is designed specifically to filter extremely fine particulate matter. A regular dust mask will not do under extreme conditions.

Look at my avatar for an idea what a shemagh is like. You too could look this badass! 8)
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby FIGJAM » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:08 pm

"You too could look this badass!" 8)


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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby Schtev » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:11 pm

Touché.
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby Canoe » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:28 pm

mulch wrote:I would imagine that much of the 3 micron playa dust is perhaps stuck to one or more other 3 micron dust particles making the effective particle size larger. I think that is why a bandana, that would not effectively get out s 3 micron particle, works for dust. Much of the dust is probably in aggregates.

Right result. Wrong reason. Its interesting to read how filters really work. It's not like screening gravel.
Different materials work to differing degrees. Ready back through the posts and other threads.
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby Eric » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:39 pm

Schtev wrote:People seem to really overcomplicate this issue.

[list]
[*]Shemagh for most situations (see youtube for proper wrapping/tying instructions), purchased from military surplus


I just use a keffiyah* almost exclusively. While there are huge variations in the way to wrap these, the one I use ends up with a double layer of fabric that I can quickly drop to cover my mouth, and my beard doesn't interfere with it at all. I usually bring 6 or 7 of them with me, so I can swap them out when they get dirty. Great coverage from the sun for head & shoulders as well.




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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby Schtev » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:58 pm

Eric wrote:I usually bring 6 or 7 of them with me, so I can swap them out when they get dirty.


I just bring the one and beat it out once a day.
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby Eric » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:31 pm

Schtev wrote:
Eric wrote:I usually bring 6 or 7 of them with me, so I can swap them out when they get dirty.


I just bring the one and beat it out once a day.


I have a shaved head that is covered in sunblock on playa - the keffiyehs get dirty with the sweat, dust & oils. Besides, the more I have, the more colors I have to play with - blues, oranges, black & white, purple... as long as they're either all cotton or a cotton/wool blend, it's all good.
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby littlebird » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:20 pm

I bought some 3M masks online that are very similar to the ones that junglesmacks posted back in February (see picture below). They just arrived in the mail, and I've found that they don't at all fit snugly under my chin. Am I right to assume that this is a problem?

I must have an unusually small face or something, since the damn goggles I bought don't fit snugly against the bridge of my nose. I'm a super short and petite woman, but all of this is a bit ridiculous and aggravating. :?

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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby ygmir » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:22 pm

littlebird wrote:I bought some 3M masks online that are very similar to the ones that junglesmacks posted back in February (see picture below). They just arrived in the mail, and I've found that they don't at all fit snugly under my chin. Am I right to assume that this is a problem?

I must have an unusually small face or something, since the damn goggles I bought don't fit snugly against the bridge of my nose. I'm a super short and petite woman, but all of this is a bit ridiculous and aggravating. :?

junglesmacks wrote:Image

yeah you want a good fit. maybe, a surgical type mask? or that, under this one? some masks can be shaped, too.
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby littlebird » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:29 pm

ygmir wrote:yeah you want a good fit. maybe, a surgical type mask? or that, under this one? some masks can be shaped, too.


I think my lesson here may be that it's a bad idea to shop for dusk masks and/or goggles online.
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby ygmir » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:32 pm

littlebird wrote:
ygmir wrote:yeah you want a good fit. maybe, a surgical type mask? or that, under this one? some masks can be shaped, too.


I think my lesson here may be that it's a bad idea to shop for dusk masks and/or goggles online.


maybe..........but they tend to be "one size fits all", and if you know you have a smallish face or whatever, find what works and stick with it. I'll PM you a link to some nice, and super cheap goggles, more like the "bug eye" type.
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby littlebird » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:39 pm

ygmir wrote:maybe..........but they tend to be "one size fits all", and if you know you have a smallish face or whatever, find what works and stick with it. I'll PM you a link to some nice, and super cheap goggles, more like the "bug eye" type.


Thank you for that link!
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby Canoe » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:00 pm

Schtev wrote:...N-95 respirator (white painter's mask on steroids) if shit REALLY hits the fan, purchased from hardware store... Please note that the N-95 classification is very important, as this class of mask is designed specifically to filter extremely fine particulate matter. A regular dust mask will not do under extreme conditions...)

Sorry I missed this earlier. N-95 has limitations for anyone NEEDING to filter playa particles.

N-95 only gets 95% of the particles. N-100 gets 100% (99.97%).

Complete post here viewtopic.php?f=279&t=56557&start=30#p921601

Summary
Canoe wrote:
Canoe wrote:... that N95 filter shown, nor any N95 particle filter, does not provide "complete and total filtration".
Respirators are rated “N” if they are not resistant to oil, “R” if somewhat resistant to oil, and “P” if strongly resistant (oil proof).
In the type N, there's N95, N99, or N100, filtering in turn 95%, 99% and 100% (99.97%).
On surgical masks:
Surgical masks are not designed for use as particulate respirators ... Most surgical masks do not effectively filter small particles from the air and do not prevent leakage around the edge of the mask when the user inhales.
...perhaps the most misunderstood aspect of filter performance and bears repeating. Filters do NOT act as sieves. One of the best tests of a filter’s performance involves measuring particle collection at its most penetrating particle size, which ensures better performance for larger and smaller particles. Further, the filter’s collection efficiency is a function of the size of the particles, and is not dependent on whether they are bioaerosols or inert particles.

Given the particle size distribution of Black Rock Playa soils:
Particle Size, Weight Percent
Clay < 3 um, 65.3%
Silt 3 to 15 um, 21.2%
Silt 15 to 62.5 um, 10.4%
Sand > 62.5 um, 3.1%

It appears that any NOISH rated particle filter should be filtering the dust from the playa, with N95, N99 and N100 being good, better and best.
But your performance will likely depend on the comfort level of the model of facepiece you choose, with particular effectiveness dependent on how well it fits you.

p.s. I still think the Playa-Tested©)'( thick cotton bandana and the shemagh are good choices.
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby Schtev » Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:15 am

Uh...don't you think it's a little anal fretting over 5%?

Canoe wrote:Sorry I missed this earlier. N-95 has limitations for anyone NEEDING to filter playa particles.

N-95 only gets 95% of the particles. N-100 gets 100% (99.97%).
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby DrewDubious » Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:27 am

Canoe wrote:
DrewDubious wrote:http://www.dustbeegone.com/dustmask.html

• Effective down to 3 microns. Not NIOSH or OSHA approved.

65% of playa soils, the source of playa dust, is less than 3 microns.

Canoe wrote:particle size distribution of Black Rock Playa soils:
Particle Size, Weight, Percent
Clay < 3 um, 65.3%
Silt 3 to 15 um, 21.2%
Silt 15 to 62.5 um, 10.4%
Sand > 62.5 um, 3.1%



Riight, but "effective down to X microns" is all they can say without paying for the product to be approved by the government agencies. you can wear this mask all day without it becoming a swamp inside the mask, it's washable, you can wear it wet for added filtration -and- it's double layered. I use this mask while cutting MDF which has extremely fine dust ( < 2 microns) with formaldehyde in it (I.e. much worse for you than playa dust). They work very well.
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby Canoe » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:06 am

Schtev wrote:Uh...don't you think it's a little anal fretting over 5%?

Canoe wrote:has limitations for anyone NEEDING to filter playa particles.

Not at all. For some, it's not a matter of inconvenience or discomfort, but a medical need.
Not nice to present N-95 as an ultimate solution without qualification of what that really means.
And it means, they can be breathing in 5% of the dust that gets to the mask.
5% of a dust storm is a lot.
Think of 5% of a 40 mph dust storm; way more dust than what you'd get from the 10 mph breeze without a mask. And then there's the big blows.
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby Schtev » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:09 am

I really hate to suggest this to ANYBODY, but maybe somebody that can't handle 5% shouldn't be going to the Playa?

Canoe wrote:
Schtev wrote:Uh...don't you think it's a little anal fretting over 5%?

Canoe wrote:has limitations for anyone NEEDING to filter playa particles.

Not at all. For some, it's not a matter of inconvenience or discomfort, but a medical need.
Not nice to present N-95 as an ultimate solution without qualification of what that really means.
And it means, they can be breathing in 5% of the dust that gets to the mask.
5% of a dust storm is a lot.
Think of 5% of a 40 mph dust storm; way more dust than what you'd get from the 10 mph breeze without a mask. And then there's the big blows.
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby Canoe » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:24 am

DrewDubious wrote:
Canoe wrote:
DrewDubious wrote:http://www.dustbeegone.com/dustmask.html

• Effective down to 3 microns. Not NIOSH or OSHA approved.
65% of playa soils, the source of playa dust, is less than 3 microns.

Riight, but "effective down to X microns" is all they can say without paying for the product to be approved by the government agencies.

Not true.
Doesn't need to be NIOSH or OSHA approved, but if it is then claims are verified to a known standard.
They can get it tested and publish the actual results. Which they have, at least partially published. What they publish is very specific. It's effective down to 3 microns. No definition of how "effective".
Their wording is classic marketing. State something that is true, sounds good, but doesn't really mean much.
Filtering 1% of 3 micron particles would qualify as "effective". All "effective down to 3 microns" really means is that it manages to filter some particles down to 3 microns but below that it can't do the job.
And if it's not "effective" below 3 microns, then it's not doing much for the majority of playa soils.

So for breaking less dust, fine. For someone needing to filter out the dust, do you want a product that states that they're not effective for 65% of playa soils.
Last edited by Canoe on Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby Canoe » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:26 am

Schtev wrote:I really hate to suggest this to ANYBODY, but maybe somebody that can't handle 5% shouldn't be going to the Playa?

Quite possibly.
But that's their choice.

When you ask a question here, do you rely upon what people are posting?
When you're presenting information where people may rely upon it, you have a duty to make it accurate, or at least qualify it so people know how far they can rely upon it.
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby DrewDubious » Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:13 am

Canoe wrote:
For someone needing to filter out the dust, do you want a product that states that they're not effective for 65% of playa soils.



No, I want a product that I know works well past what it is advertised as doing. Which this product does, as I have found out first hand. I've used the same mask over 5 years now and I have never had to pick any formaldehyde boogers outa my nose. That's much better than any standardized testing in my book. Either way, just wanted to offer my personal experiences with the dust masks as I know how not comfortable the usual ones are. :D




Just sayin!


Additionally, I -think- NIOSH and OSHA regulations pertain to mists and fumes containing toxic patricles.
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby Malachite » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:52 am

I used N95 3M masks last year, but fashionably decorated by testing fabric scraps on hand for breath porosity, then glued pieces over the masks with the glue just around the edges. I cut a dart (wedge) in the fabric so it would conform better. A pretty homemade mask ups the gifting potential.
I smoke my own homegrown tobacco, so that's definitely inhaling small particles. So far, I don't have a medical need at age 65, so N95 worked for me. Hey, glue a mustache on it!
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Re: Playa Lung Dust Masks

Postby Schtev » Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:33 pm

Malachite wrote:I used N95 3M masks last year, but fashionably decorated by testing fabric scraps on hand for breath porosity, then glued pieces over the masks with the glue just around the edges. I cut a dart (wedge) in the fabric so it would conform better. A pretty homemade mask ups the gifting potential.
I smoke my own homegrown tobacco, so that's definitely inhaling small particles. So far, I don't have a medical need at age 65, so N95 worked for me. Hey, glue a mustache on it!



When going with N95's, I recommend getting ones with release valves on the front. They're just a lot more comfortable.
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