Flat top canopy stake/rebar question

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Flat top canopy stake/rebar question

Postby barkingmad » Mon May 12, 2014 9:09 pm

I'm a virgin and am very excited to finally be headed to BM this year! I'm driving from the East Coast in my old Class B van and would like to have a shade structure for it.

I'd like for it to be about 10 x 20; it also needs to be 10 feet tall because of the van's height. I considered the Costco carport but I don't think it's quite tall enough.

I'd like to have a flat top canopy similar to this one from Jon Sarriugarte's Black Rock Shade kit. Scroll to the bottom of the page. http://formandreform.com/wordpress/?page_id=2576

What I can't get through my thick skull is how the PVC should be attached to the rebar. One thread said to wrap the PVC in plastic wrap, then duct tape the hell out of it to the rebar. Another thread said to insert the PVC over at least 1.5 feet of rebar (leaving about 1.5 feet of rebar buried in the playa).

I like the idea of placing the PVC directly over the rebar, but I have visions of the wind having its way with the PVC and lifting it right off the rebar.

And would the PVC do as well if I used 12-inch nails? They're lighter to haul, easier to wrangle --

What am I missing here? TIA!
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Re: Flat top canopy stake/rebar question

Postby some seeing eye » Mon May 12, 2014 9:34 pm

Suggest ratchet tie downs, one for each upright (6) to Mr Figjam's lag bolts with washer https://eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic ... lag+screws. The extra long lag bolts might not be at Home Despot. You could put the uprights over lag bolts, gutter spikes or rebar, all easily available in Reno.

Your uprights need to be able to take the compression. Not sure about PVC.
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Re: Flat top canopy stake/rebar question

Postby Jgladdy » Mon May 12, 2014 10:32 pm

I actually have one of those kits. Here's how they work (not sure how you are going to construct yours)...it's not PVC they are made from metal. There's a hole at the bottom with a set screw in it. Basically you put rebar inside the legs, then tighten the set screws until they push against the rebar.
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Re: Flat top canopy stake/rebar question

Postby fernley1 » Tue May 13, 2014 2:09 am

I have a shade structure like that too. My uses 1 inch electrical EMT pipe. Each leg has a foot pad where I use long 12 inch nails. Each corner get 2 tie down straps going to 18 inch rebar.
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Re: Flat top canopy stake/rebar question

Postby barkingmad » Tue May 13, 2014 5:46 pm

some seeing eye wrote:Suggest ratchet tie downs, one for each upright (6) to Mr Figjam's lag bolts with washer https://eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic ... lag+screws. The extra long lag bolts might not be at Home Despot. You could put the uprights over lag bolts, gutter spikes or rebar, all easily available in Reno.

Your uprights need to be able to take the compression. Not sure about PVC.

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SSE, yes, I had read Figjam's endorsement of the long lag screws. Great info - that plus the swamp cooler!

I like the idea of the lag bolts/screws or the nails over rebar, just because of the lighter weight of them.

When you say 'compression,' are you referring to the wind load on the trap and the uprights?

Thanks for your post --
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Re: Flat top canopy stake/rebar question

Postby barkingmad » Tue May 13, 2014 5:52 pm

Jgladdy wrote:I actually have one of those kits. Here's how they work (not sure how you are going to construct yours)...it's not PVC they are made from metal. There's a hole at the bottom with a set screw in it. Basically you put rebar inside the legs, then tighten the set screws until they push against the rebar.


*********************************************************************************************************************************************************
Jgladdy, yikes, I missed that point on the website, that the uprights are EMT, not PVC. Big difference. And I think the set screw is a great idea and easy enough to make/install. Thanks for the info!
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Re: Flat top canopy stake/rebar question

Postby barkingmad » Tue May 13, 2014 6:01 pm

fernley1 wrote:I have a shade structure like that too. My uses 1 inch electrical EMT pipe. Each leg has a foot pad where I use long 12 inch nails. Each corner get 2 tie down straps going to 18 inch rebar.


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@fernley1

Your structure sounds sturdy enough to withstand the second coming of Christ. Good on ya! Just curious, for 1" EMT, do you use a 1" foot pad or slightly larger, say 1-1/4"? I would guess you don't want any wbbly EMT in that foot pad?

I'm embarrassed by my ignorance but determined to make a shade structure!

Thanks for the info --
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Re: Flat top canopy stake/rebar question

Postby danibel » Tue May 13, 2014 6:33 pm

I have a black rock shade structure, and yes it is EMT. You can buy EMT from any home depot, but I bought the kit because they welded the set screws in and I don't have to deal with extra rebar. However, one of my campmates made his own simular using foot pads and pounds a couple of rebars in each foot pad and then sets the EMT in it. You could go with something like that. You would need connectors at the top corners as well.

I do not have any affiliation with this website - I am just posting a link as a reference for research. https://creativeshelters.com/category/footpads


(Edit: OOPs! I see that you are from the east coast. Sorry! You'll have to figure something else out. PS. I think the costco shade structures fit a cargo van in them. just not much room for anything else. :) )

If you are in the bay area, I suggest buying a black rock shade structure. They really have a great product. I used the basic set last year and bought an extension this year for 10 x 20 shade space. Yay.
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Re: Flat top canopy stake/rebar question

Postby trilobyte » Tue May 13, 2014 6:54 pm

I'm moving this over to Shelter & Camping, since that's a better fit for shade/shelter discussions.

It's worth pointing out that is NOT PVC pipe, it's EMT conduit poles.

Personally, I wouldn't ever use or recommend rebar (that shit's a pain in the ass to work with). I use footpads at the bottom of each piece of EMT (if you don't the poles can end up digging into the playa and making for an uneven and less sturdy structure) and drop simple ten inch nail spikes to secure them. Then I run a guy line at each corner, anchored to an 18 inch hurricane stake. You can do some looking around on the boards to find a few other heavy duty stake alternatives.
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Re: Flat top canopy stake/rebar question

Postby fernley1 » Tue May 13, 2014 7:52 pm

Barking mad, I use a 1 inch emt foot pad. I found them on e-bay.
like Trilobyte said, the pads help so the poles don't sink into the playa.
plus, if you carpet under your shade structure, the pads with the long nails help hold the carpet down.
If your driving from far away, there is a Lowes in fernley Nevada with lots of EMT that you can pick up before heading north on highway 447.
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Re: Flat top canopy stake/rebar question

Postby EspressoDude » Wed May 14, 2014 6:18 am

hell for stout solution is steel T shaped fence posts. drive them in next to the EMT corners, wrap leg and post together with plastic (saran or ?) wrap then duct tape. the plastic wrap keeps thing from turning into a gooey mess
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Re: Flat top canopy stake/rebar question

Postby barkingmad » Wed May 14, 2014 4:05 pm

@EspressoDude --

EspressoDude wrote:hell for stout solution is steel T shaped fence posts. drive them in next to the EMT corners, wrap leg and post together with plastic (saran or ?) wrap then duct tape. the plastic wrap keeps thing from turning into a gooey mess


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The T-shaped fence posts are the first thing my friend suggested. She's bringing some over next weekend, I've got 1" EMT and foot pads, and we're going to have a tarp-raising party here in the Old Dominion. :)

Thanks for the T-post vote of confidence!
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Re: Flat top canopy stake/rebar question

Postby barkingmad » Wed May 14, 2014 4:09 pm

danibel wrote:I have a black rock shade structure, and yes it is EMT.


Those BR shade structures look great! Since I'm coming from the East Coast, I'll probably just go with the 1" EMT and foot pads.

I went back and looked at the Costco tent again, but I just don't have room for it. I'd be interested in hearing about the extension you have for it --- is this a prefab thing or a homegrown mod?
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Re: Flat top canopy stake/rebar question

Postby barkingmad » Wed May 14, 2014 4:24 pm

@Trilo

Personally, I wouldn't ever use or recommend rebar (that shit's a pain in the ass to work with). I use footpads at the bottom of each piece of EMT (if you don't the poles can end up digging into the playa and making for an uneven and less sturdy structure) and drop simple ten inch nail spikes to secure them. Then I run a guy line at each corner, anchored to an 18 inch hurricane stake. You can do some looking around on the boards to find a few other heavy duty stake alternatives.

I am happy to say that I'm going with the EMT, foot pads, and long-ass nails. I really didn't want to haul rebar over 5400 miles round trip. The nails are doable, easily.

Also, I've scaled back the size of the shade structure that I want -- now it's enough to cover the van, with a wee bit left over. That will reduce the amount of building I need to do.

Loved the idea of hurricane stakes on the corners. Those aren't going anywhere!

Thanks!
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Re: Flat top canopy stake/rebar question

Postby barkingmad » Wed May 14, 2014 4:26 pm

fernley1 wrote:Barking mad, I use a 1 inch emt foot pad. I found them on e-bay.
like Trilobyte said, the pads help so the poles don't sink into the playa.
plus, if you carpet under your shade structure, the pads with the long nails help hold the carpet down.
If your driving from far away, there is a Lowes in fernley Nevada with lots of EMT that you can pick up before heading north on highway 447.


Hey, fernley1, for both you and Trilo -- I had no idea that the poles would sink into the playa. I thought once you got past the first few inches, the playa composition was pretty stable. So I'm glad I know now about the poles sinking in.

Definitely makes the foot pads my #1 choice.

Thanks a lot !
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Re: Flat top canopy stake/rebar question

Postby playalynn » Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:05 pm

Trilobyte - What do you mean by an 18" Hurricane Stake? I googled it and came up with nothin but a scary dog stake that costs 15 dollars each. ANy chance you could link me to a pic of what they look like?
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