Lag screws vs everything else...

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby TT120 » Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:07 pm

Joel,
I used those big ass "12 nails with plastic washers from my Figjam Bucket Cooler for my tent, and while we didn't get any high winds last year, I'm pretty confident they would have held my tent down. The metal tent poles would have collapsed long before the nails pulled out. (By the way, I had a backup tent in case my main tent got shredded. Radical Self Reliance.) It was also inside a Monkey hut which helped shield the wind. Drive them in at a 90 degree angle to the load and they're pretty solid. Lag bolts would be even better.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby andyburner » Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:02 pm

hi Figjam,

where can i buy lag screws for a dollar each ?
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby Meat Hunter » Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:35 pm

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby Sunbeam56 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:04 pm

Now tryin 3/8 x 14 in. Lagbolts.
We put 2 steel washers on either side of 3 links of chain. I plan to have flags and lights and stuff, so wanted the extra link for additional space for lightweight attachments.
We are in clay here, so the bolts will come up more easily.
So far so good. Waiting for weather.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby FIGJAM » Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:28 pm

Gotta buy 50, so share em with your friends!

http://www.amazon.com/Screws-Head-Steel-Zinc-Carton/dp/B005EH2N5E
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby A-RockLeFrench » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:59 pm

I have an 18v Makita impact driver, I imagine that has sufficient torque for driving/removing 14 inch screws in clay. Specs say 1420 lbs/ft at 2300 RPM.
Image


I figured I'd check with the experts before buying a bunch of screws and then realizing that my driver wont cut the mustard once we start setting up on playa. We'll have generators so recharging batteries isn't an issue.

And on another note: 1420 lbs? :shock: how the hell can a battery operated tool produce almost three times as much torque as my diesel truck and not rip my arms off? I'm sure theres some explanation for this...
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby EspressoDude » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:00 pm

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby Sunbeam56 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:42 pm

For the playa, we are going to bring an air compressor and a ratcheting head.
Its Wednesday - three days of drizzle and wind (mild). so far so good. Nothing moving.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby GreyCoyote » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:00 pm

A-RockLeFrench wrote:I have an 18v Makita impact driver, I imagine that has sufficient torque for driving/removing 14 inch screws in clay. Specs say 1420 lbs/ft at 2300 RPM.
Image


I figured I'd check with the experts before buying a bunch of screws and then realizing that my driver wont cut the mustard once we start setting up on playa. We'll have generators so recharging batteries isn't an issue.

And on another note: 1420 lbs? :shock: how the hell can a battery operated tool produce almost three times as much torque as my diesel truck and not rip my arms off? I'm sure theres some explanation for this...


A-Rock: Those are INCH pounds. That critter couldn't break 150 foot/lbs on a good day. :mrgreen: It may actually say those are the numbers on a third-party website somewhere, but that's going to be a copy writer who misread and mistyped the actual specs. Makita rates that tool in in/lbs on it's website.

FWIW, 1420 inch lbs = 118 lb/ft

I have a 1500 lb/ft wrench that is a 1-inch drive and weighs about 50 lbs. It uses a bolt on the drive bar to hold the socket on. That tool takes 20 CFM of air at 120 PSI to drive it, and when you pull the trigger, you'd better be ready to hang on tight and not have a full bladder. heheheheh.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby ygmir » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:13 pm

DEWALT DW292
1/2" Impact Wrench with Detent Pin Anvil

This 1/2" Impact Wrench with Detent Pin Anvil from DeWALT (DW292) features ball bearing construction for increased durability. The 7.5 Amp motor provides 2,700 IPM and 345 ft-lbs of torque in forward and reverse. Soft grip handle and forward/reverse rocker switch for superior ergonomic design.


runs fine on my eu 2k genny, or even a good inverter off your auto battery
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby MacGlenver » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:40 pm

I think I've said it in a few threads before, but I used Figgy's lag screw idea last year and fell IN LOVE. There are few things more satisfying than watching campmates hammer in pieces of rebar while I effortlessly screw in 10 lag screws in about 2 minutes.

Here's the impact driver I got (Porter Cable Impact Driver, 4.3 A, 1/4 In). I think I paid ~$80 at Lowes, and powered it off my Honda EU2000i. It didn't break a sweat putting the standard 14" screws.

http://www.grainger.com/product/42W357?gclid=CL78j4Wusb0CFc1afgodJi0AEw&cm_mmc=PPC:GooglePLA-_-Power%20Tools-_-Fastening%20Tools-_-42W357&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=42W357&ef_id=Uv6IWAAAAJtOv2Yw:20140326233210:s

I used a standard socket, but I had backup sockets that are specifically intended for impact drivers (presume regular ones can crack or bend sometimes).

I bought 40 last year and will be buying another 50 this year.

EDIT - Order placed for 50 more. Only 10 cartons left in stock on Amazon!
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby FIGJAM » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:38 pm

Amazon was the first place I found for under a buck a piece.

I'm sure there are distributors that have them for a similar price, but you'll have hunt them down.

If your diligent, maybe you'll find the 18"x3/8" that I have! 8)
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby A-RockLeFrench » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:54 pm

See, there totally was an explanation. :mrgreen:

I'm going to anticipate that my cordless impact driver will work just fine. 118 lbs/ft still seems pretty beefy to me. I know from putting motors together when I have that torque wrench set at 80 lbs it takes a considerable effort to get the click.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby FIGJAM » Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:02 pm

If they won't go clear in, crank them the rest of the way with a ratchet.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby joesixpack » Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:23 pm

I got 20 12" x 3/8 hex head lag bolts for about a buck apiece at wholesalebolts.com.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby FossaFerox » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:53 pm

For those of us braving the playa without a generator or inverter, how much of a pain in the ass are hand tools for driving lag bolts 14" into the playa surface? Does it still beat rebar in terms of the manpower required? What sort of tool would I be looking for? A part of me thinks a ratchet wrench would be ideal and hopes it would be sufficient, but I suspect something more akin to a tire iron with a long, STURDY arm might be required. And yes, I know that if I throw on my fur vest and shake my ass just right I could probably borrow time on a generator and maybe even on an impact wrench, but radical self reliance, etc...
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby FIGJAM » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:18 pm

A ratchet will work, but that's a lot of wrenching to do by hand.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby FossaFerox » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:36 pm

How would you compare the workload to driving 2' pieces of rebar though? What we did last year was a lot of work, and pulling it out solo was a miserable badge of honor.

Once I know whether or not my camp is being placed I can try to figure out if I can expect to borrow time on a power source/tool on Saturday pre-gate, but I don't want to wait until July to order the hardware and cut the chain, which means knowing that driving about 115 lag bolts by hand is an option, and one my camp mates won't lynch me over if it comes down to it.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby FIGJAM » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:09 pm

You could get an inverter for your car big enough to run a drill.

Idle the car while installing the bolts.

100' extension cord should do it.

I have a BIG inverter to run my electric jackhammer for digging holes.

I use that to run my big drill to install my lags.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby GreyCoyote » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:01 am

FossaFerox wrote:How would you compare the workload to driving 2' pieces of rebar though? What we did last year was a lot of work, and pulling it out solo was a miserable badge of honor.


Both are a miserable amount of work IMHO. I would rate them about the same on the Hurt-O-Meter myself.

FossaFerox wrote:Once I know whether or not my camp is being placed I can try to figure out if I can expect to borrow time on a power source/tool on Saturday pre-gate, but I don't want to wait until July to order the hardware and cut the chain, which means knowing that driving about 115 lag bolts by hand is an option, and one my camp mates won't lynch me over if it comes down to it.


I would go with FIGJAMs inverter idea. You will need one that handles at least 1000 watts and can be connected directly to the battery. Check function with your drill before the playa as some of the VSR drills dont work right on a modified sine.

Note that you could get away with a much smaller inverter if you have battery operated tools and just need to charge them. For this use a simple plug-in (cig lighter) unit would be fine and you wouldnt need to worry as much about killing your vehicle battery. :mrgreen:
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby Sunbeam56 » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:36 am

I just got a flash image of Ferox using a socket attached to a long handle bar, and running around in circles to drive the bolt in - it could be fun! Might need music to make it work. :)
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby FIGJAM » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:39 am

"Yakety sax"! 8)
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby chuckularone » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:15 am

FIGJAM wrote:"Yakety sax"! 8)


I never even knew that song had a name!
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby TT120 » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:25 am

Sunbeam56 wrote:I just got a flash image of Ferox using a socket attached to a long handle bar, and running around in circles to drive the bolt in - it could be fun! Might need music to make it work. :)
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby kittyrodriguez » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:30 pm

Sunbeam56 wrote:I just got a flash image of Ferox using a socket attached to a long handle bar, and running around in circles to drive the bolt in


This happened to us. We were walking innocently along, when we were shanghaied into drilling this huge bolt into the ground. We each grabbed one end of a long stick and ran in circles until we almost threw up. It was hilarious, and we made some decent progress on it.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby BBadger » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:10 pm

FossaFerox wrote:How would you compare the workload to driving 2' pieces of rebar though? What we did last year was a lot of work, and pulling it out solo was a miserable badge of honor.


Was it really that terrible? I can imagine the pounding in might've been a pain, but not exceptionally miserable. These were 18" of 5/8" rebar pounded in flush (candy-cane top added an additional 4-5") using smaller 3-lbs-sledgehammers. Pulling them out was the fun part. I brought some vise grip was able to twist and pull them out pretty quick. Then a campmate said, "hey try this one" and handed me something like this. Those worked real well in helping me avoid the adjust-and-clamp using the vise grips. In the previous years with the same thick candycane, we used a crowbar leveraging off a piece of wood and they popped right out.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby BBadger » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:20 pm

So how about using a long concrete drill bit, drilling some holes to loosen the dirt, putting in the lag bolts back in, and then pouring some small bit of water to solidify the loose dirt again?
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby Canoe » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:09 am

There's a reason most building codes require footings on "undisturbed soil".
Once you've got a lag bolt in far enough it will thread itself in the rest of the way. Why drill a loose hole and then try to recover what you could have had for the same effort as drilling that hole...
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby FossaFerox » Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:02 am

BBadger wrote:
FossaFerox wrote:How would you compare the workload to driving 2' pieces of rebar though? What we did last year was a lot of work, and pulling it out solo was a miserable badge of honor.


Was it really that terrible? I can imagine the pounding in might've been a pain, but not exceptionally miserable. These were 18" of 5/8" rebar pounded in flush (candy-cane top added an additional 4-5") using smaller 3-lbs-sledgehammers. Pulling them out was the fun part. I brought some vise grip was able to twist and pull them out pretty quick. Then a campmate said, "hey try this one" and handed me something like this. Those worked real well in helping me avoid the adjust-and-clamp using the vise grips. In the previous years with the same thick candycane, we used a crowbar leveraging off a piece of wood and they popped right out.


I'm planning on using 2 foot sections next year if we don't do lag bolts. Last year we used two footers on the tents, but three footers for our guylines and tarp anchors. 30 inches deep with 4-5 inches of hook at the top of the cane. All told we put over 300 feet of rebar into the ground and a lot of I bent underground as we drove it in (only happened with the long ones), forming long gentle loops which made pulling them out a nightmare.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby FossaFerox » Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:03 am

Damn double post.
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