Drilling holes for rebar

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Drilling holes for rebar

Postby MacGlenver » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:02 am

Pounding rebar is a pain, so I've had the thought to predrill 1/2" holes for it with a one foot masonry bit (see picture - sorry it's huge, don't know how to resize on my phone).

Three questions:
1.is this worthwhile (ie. Will it actually save me effort)?
2.will predrilling my holes result in a less secure piece of rebar?
3.i am planning to use an impact driver rather than the more appropriate hammer drill or rotary hammer (since I specifically need the impact driver for another purpose and don't want to buy a hammer drill as well). Will the impact driver work well enough with the masonry bit to drill these 1 foot deep holes?

Thanks!
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby Jackass » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:32 pm

That's a bad idea. When pounding rebar into the playa, it doesn't really start to get a good grip until you're at about 10" deep then I go about 4" more to make sure that it won't pull out. If you predrill and remove that playa from the hole, the rebar's just going to fall into that hole and won't be holding shit.

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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby lemur » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:53 pm

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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby BadKittenOnARampage » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:57 pm

YES!!! This works like a charm and I've used this aid my last two Burns to help create an easier, more efficient way to get the rebar into the Playa for the monkey hut pvc (which after doing the first time WITHOUT the drill, was a serious PITA) . . . I highly recommend it. :D

P.S. - I used a regular Ryobi drill with a battery pack and a masonry bit to pre-drill the hole down about 8-10", then pound the 12" candy cane rebar into the playa with a rubber mallet or a small sledgehammer. It held the pvc for the monkey hut with no issues (in fact, some of them were difficult to pull out upon taking down the hut at the end of the Burn!)
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby Token » Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:40 am

As long as you are one "size" smaller on the bit, shoud be fine.

For 1/2 inch rebar go with 3/8 drill bit.

You do need some friction and compaction from the driving of the rebar or else you reduce the holding ability.

I use my Bosch demo hammer on the ranch for this because of the rocky soil.

Key is to think of the drilling as a pilot hole, always smaller than the item you eventually drive in.
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby graidawg » Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:49 am

I think an impact driver (especially the 12v li-ion one you appear to be using) may flake out well before you are done. but if it works can i see if the batteries are the same as mine? don't really want to bring my drill over and i too am lazy (note how i rarely use caps)
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby reader2580 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:59 am

I have pounded 3/4" 40 inch long stakes into the playa before. I use a 1/2" 36 inch long masonry bit to drill holes first. A cordless drill doesn't have enough power for such a long bit. I use a really old really big Craftsman drill to make the holes. I have a stake extractor to get them out when leaving.
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby MacGlenver » Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:08 am

I can confirm that predrilling the rebar kicks ass. For one, it makes hammering it in straight and vertical muchhhhhh easier. The strength didn't appear to be compromised at all. That stuff was solid. I used a 1/2" masonry drill bit that was 12 inches long (as pictured). My friends who spent hours last bman Pounding in rebar were so relieved. I ended up not using the Impact driver cause it was tasked with screwing in my 14" lag screws (which also kicked serious ass). I used a 20 dollar ryobi Corded drill that worked like a charm.

I don't think we will ever try to pound rebar that isn't predrilled again. It was SO much nicer (And just as strong, no joke).

Graidawg : not sure if you're talking about the impact driver that I showed in the pic. My impact driver is Corded, not li-ion. I didn't want to risk a battery dying out there, and i didn't know if the cordless drills would have the power. Having done it now, I bet a strong cordless drill could drill the holes. Probably wouldn't cut it for screwing in the lag bolts tho. Those took some power, so I was glad I had the Corded impact driver.
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby some seeing eye » Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:47 am

I met the Litebrite rebar man, borrowed his hammer on playa, and drove my stakes for a monkey hut - 24 of them. Very cool and gracious dude who had a Star Wars-style land speeder MV.

You want a demolition hammer that draws 12-15Amps @ 120V, that translates to the amount of ft-lbs energy needed. You can drive 18" in less than 30 sec.

Suggest a commercial stake puller, the playa does not want to let those suckers go.

You can impress your friends at home by driving ground rods or get a spade bit to dig fast in tough soils. Or, of course, become a demolition man or woman.
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby Meat Hunter » Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:48 am

I think that I read somewhere on this form a month or so ago that if you pre-drill a rebar hole and then pour in a bit of clean/clear water that you can firmly set the rebar in the hole.

Has anyone had any experience using this technique?
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby GreyCoyote » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:05 am

Meat Hunter wrote:I think that I read somewhere on this form a month or so ago that if you pre-drill a rebar hole and then pour in a bit of clean/clear water that you can firmly set the rebar in the hole.

Has anyone had any experience using this technique?


Two very conflicting schools of thought here. Rather similar to "Ford v Chevy", etc.

School #1: "The water causes the playa to swell a bit thereby gripping the rebar tighter. In the alternative it causes the playa to pack-down around the flutes in the rebar, giving it better grip. I have proof of this because the last three years I wet my stakes and my tent/dome/mh didn't blow away in a windstorm."

School #2: "The water acts as a lubricant and lets the stake go. You don't want to wet a stake unless you are trying to pull it out. I have proof of this because in (insert year here) it rained and my tent/dome/mh blew away."

My personal experience says to set the stakes dry in narrow pilot holes using a demo hammer, or use long lag bolts dry-screwed into the playa. Either of these methods produces an anchor that resists an insane amount of force, yet will remove easily if you know the magic handshake. I have staked large domes this way with no issues in strong winds. YMMV.

I suppose at some point we will have to try side-by-side comparison just to answer that question, but wait... oh wow... look... that guy and his sparkle pony are gifting bacon, beer and backrubs.... SEE YA!!! :mrgreen:
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby Meat Hunter » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:04 pm

GreyCoyote,

Thank you for your thoughts and the benefit of your experience.

Since I will be setting guy lines for an Aluminet sun shelter and a few anchors around a Playa Dome, I will do some testing in my Mississippi dirt using a 1/2" electric drill w/socket and 1/2" D x 18" L lag bolts.

Rather than work harder -- Us 70 year old's have to work smarter.
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby FIGJAM » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:41 pm

The only reason I used the 3/8" lags was that they fit through tarp grommets perfectly.

Here's the best source for lags that I've found.

http://www.wholesalebolts.com/hexheadlagscrews.aspx
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby Meat Hunter » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:00 pm

FigJam,

Thanks for the heads-up regarding lag bolt OD & grommet hole ID and the link to the lag bolts.

You have probably saved me money and a good bit of do-it-the-second-time frustration.

I have no doubt that my 2000i generator & 1/2" drill will do a proper job of setting the lag bolts.

Do you think that 18" L x 3/8" lag bolts will be sufficiently long?
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby Eric » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:40 pm

Meat Hunter wrote:I will do some testing in my Mississippi dirt


Meat Hunter - just remember that the playa isn't dirt/soil, it's more of a hard-packed clay that can turn into loose powdery dust (think talcum powder when dry, the most viscous, sticky, clay you can think of when wet). There has been a ton of discussion & ideas for what works on the actual playa, since you have a year, I'd spend time going through previous threads & posts elsewhere and narrow down your plan of attack.

Personally, the only time I'd pour water onto the playa would is when there is rebar that just won't come out, and you need to loosen the playa to wiggle it more.

I've made it easy with this link to find the discussions, for future searches, try "eplaya + search term" (no quotation or italics needed), it's the easiest way.
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby FIGJAM » Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:29 pm

I don't think the 3/8" come 18"s long.

Mine are 14"s and once they're set I don't think a crow bar could get them out. 8)
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby BBadger » Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:59 am

And here I am, pounding 18" long 5/8" rebar in without a drill... Next time I'll bring a drill. I should probably just shorten them up too.
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby MacGlenver » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:49 am

BBadger wrote:And here I am, pounding 18" long 5/8" rebar in without a drill... Next time I'll bring a drill. I should probably just shorten them up too.


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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby Captain Goddammit » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:30 pm

lemur wrote:http://www.litebrite.org/rebarhammer/


This is so cool I want to go get one - and I don't even have anything that uses stakes!
But I'm a tool junkie. It wouldn't be the first cool tool I got that I didn't even have a use for!

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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby ygmir » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:33 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:
lemur wrote:http://www.litebrite.org/rebarhammer/


This is so cool I want to go get one - and I don't even have anything that uses stakes!
But I'm a tool junkie. It wouldn't be the first cool tool I got that I didn't even have a use for!

Am I the only burner who has actually brought a spare transmission in case the truck's failed?


probably, but this is the only place you'd be admired for it.
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby andy » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:11 pm

I tried 18"x1/2" lag bolts and an impact driver this year for both my yurt and a large project. I predrilled using a 18" drill. This is my experience, you're mileage may vary.

1) Generally it worked pretty well. Pre-drilling made only a little difference as the hole starts filling near the bottom in the moment you pull out the drill.
2) I brought an impact driver and a 900W inverter generator. Frankly the driver was a pile of crap, I should have spent more on a better one, but beware the combination of impact drivers, playa, and (especially inverter) gennies: the generator doesn't start pushing out the needed power until the drill starts turning. My drill would start slowly, then the genie would rev up as it detected the load, then the drill would really start spinning - but this sometimes would result in the lag screw binding up. Perhaps with a non-inverter (constant output) genie this would work better.

Because of these problems I ended up hammering in most of the lag screws (or drilling them partway and hammering the rest of the way. The mistake I made is that this slightly deformed some of the bolt heads, and when it came time to remove them the socket would not quite fit. I eventually got them all out but the handful that were damaged took 10 times as long as the ones that weren't.

Advice #1 - bring a throw-away socket and use it to hammer the lag bolts when needed. Don't hammer directly on the bolt head.
Advice #2 - bring a very large socket wrench to get the lag bolts started for removal. Your drill, even if a little weak, can save lots of time pulling the bolts out 90% of the way.
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby FIGJAM » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:24 pm

By using a big enough drill I don't have to predrill.

I've use a "Holehog" drill with socket for the last 3 burns with no problems. 8)
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby mdmf007 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:36 pm

I have always used the slide hammer style. In the amount fo time it takes to set up the drill and drill a hole, i have rebar sank just as deep. Sharpen up the ends and it sinks right in.

your mileage may vary though.
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby Captain Goddammit » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:32 pm

andy wrote:the generator doesn't start pushing out the needed power until the drill starts turning. My drill would start slowly, then the genie would rev up as it detected the load, then the drill would really start spinning - but this sometimes would result in the lag screw binding up. Perhaps with a non-inverter (constant output) genie this would work better.

A generator being an inverter type has nothing to do with whether it's constant speed. It sounds like you didn't turn off your "eco throttle" switch.
I've never seen an inverter generator that didn't allow you to select whether the throttle control was on or off.
Turn the throttle control off when you're gonna shock it with heavy starting loads.
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby tamarakay » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:34 pm

Ken would like to know if Anyone has any suggestions for brands of demolition hammers for driving 3/4 rebar approximately 18 inches in the ground. Our arthritis is killing us with the rebar pounding and this is worth the investment. We are both completely done for 24 hours after camp setup.
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby FIGJAM » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:17 pm

I uses a 35# Makita demo hammer in my work, and it will drive that rebar in seconds! 8)
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby ygmir » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:12 pm

tamarakay wrote:Ken would like to know if Anyone has any suggestions for brands of demolition hammers for driving 3/4 rebar approximately 18 inches in the ground. Our arthritis is killing us with the rebar pounding and this is worth the investment. We are both completely done for 24 hours after camp setup.


Figjams.............
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby FossaFerox » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:00 am

ygmir wrote:
tamarakay wrote:Ken would like to know if Anyone has any suggestions for brands of demolition hammers for driving 3/4 rebar approximately 18 inches in the ground. Our arthritis is killing us with the rebar pounding and this is worth the investment. We are both completely done for 24 hours after camp setup.


Figjams.............


I can't tell if you're seconding his recommendation or pulling a Sinatra...

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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby ^Rhino! » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:06 am

BEST method for installing rebar:

Soil nail launcher. Made from old British nerve gas canister launchers.

[media]


Good luck getting the rebar out.
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Re: Drilling holes for rebar

Postby ygmir » Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:20 am

FossaFerox wrote:
ygmir wrote:
tamarakay wrote:Ken would like to know if Anyone has any suggestions for brands of demolition hammers for driving 3/4 rebar approximately 18 inches in the ground. Our arthritis is killing us with the rebar pounding and this is worth the investment. We are both completely done for 24 hours after camp setup.


Figjams.............


I can't tell if you're seconding his recommendation or pulling a Sinatra...

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