DuroFoam vs. R-Max for a Hexayurt

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DuroFoam vs. R-Max for a Hexayurt

Postby Good » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:53 pm

Hey Everyone!

I'm in the process of getting ready for my first burn (assuming of course that I can get a ticket - I'm a little late to the party... but I hear that gets easier in August... I'm digressing...) and so the first thing on my list was shelter. I don't own a tent, and was looking at tent information, and everything I read seems to suggest that doing a yurt is better, as long as I can get it down there (and I can).

SO - my first hurdle: I'm from Canada. I've been looking all over for R-Max on websites up here, and nobody seems to stock it. Searches just don't seem to come up with anything. What I DO find, is this product called DuroFoam.

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/durofoam-eps-rigid-insulation-96inch-x-48inch-x-1inch/940438

I looked for a sample of it on Youtube, and it SEEMS of decent quality. It has a reflective side, and a branded side, as per most of these products. In this youtube video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nBkV4ecWos - they do a whole sales pitch, but you can see them handling it around 30s into the clip. It's pretty flexible... is that a good or bad thing if I want to use it structurally?

Anyway, my question was specifically this: "Does anyone know if DuroFoam will work as a replacement for R-Max if R-Max isn't available?"

...That feels like an aweful lot of build-up for a simple question, but there ya go.

All my love and thanks for your help =)
-Good
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Re: DuroFoam vs. R-Max for a Hexayurt

Postby TomServo » Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:43 pm

Yurts are bulky and a massive waste of effort. Buy a tent, some duct tape and a silver tarp. if you're afraid of dust..just don't go.
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..
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Re: DuroFoam vs. R-Max for a Hexayurt

Postby Canoe » Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:48 pm

OMG NO!!!
That stuff will snap in a light wind, leaving the foam crumbling away into MOOP.

You're after fibre re-enforced foam with a radiant barrier. Some have such a shinny foil barrier on one side, others on two sides, or on two sides with one side shinier. You want the shiniest on the outside to reflect sun and heat away. You need the re-enforced product as the sheets as used in a yurt are structural.

Lowe's in Canada caries IKO 3/4-in x 4-ft x 8-ft Polyisocyanurate Insulated Sheathing.
The logo on the side is a drag, but it has a radiant barrier. A shinier radiant barrier would be better.
You can delete the logo with a spray can with an aluminum pigment or aluminum foil tape (not the shiny plastic "foil" tape).

If you're close to the border, you should be able to find a source in the States that has at least one side shinny and without logo for the best heat reflectance and best appearance. 1" is better than the 3/4", but 1.5" or 2" is unnecessary.


A hexa-yurt is cooler than a tent off the line as it reflects sunlight and heat away, and after a day or so, the ground stops being a major source of radiant heat (some use a rug or such to insulate the floor at night so they don't get too cold). A tent in shade gets a good start as the strongest source of heat, the sun, is blocked.
No matter which shelter you go with, a DIY swamp-cooler is your secret trump card against heat on the playa, giving you instant relief as it blows cooled dust-free air into your shelter, pushing out hot dusty air.
Last edited by Canoe on Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Odd. No bears to watch in the dump. Oh well, lets go across the road & pick blueberries.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.
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Re: DuroFoam vs. R-Max for a Hexayurt

Postby burner von braun » Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:50 pm

Wow, those are some bendy lookin' foam boards you found there Good. I suggest you go with playa proven materials. What you're looking for are stiff rigid 1" thick boards, rigid enough that if you held one outstretched from one end, it wouldn't bow at all, even if you try to wave it. Try looking for 'Tuff-R or SuperTuff-R' if you are having trouble locating other brands. As you already know, it needs to be reflective on one side. I believe the foam itself is chemically named polyisocyanurate, at least for SuperTuff-R, which is what I used on mine. I ended up ordering mine from Low*s for a little over $20 a board, but that was 3 years ago, things may have changed. Good Luck!
Another early attempt at success
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Re: DuroFoam vs. R-Max for a Hexayurt

Postby Good » Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:50 pm

Deal. No shit boards!

I don't know why it's hard to find Polyiso boards in Canada - I checked out IKO and Lowes is only stocking that one size of board, and it's on clearance (they aren't getting any more in).

I found a North American company with an office in Vancouver, that produces a bunch of different kinds of boards in several different thicknesses - http://www.atlasroofing.com/tabbed.php?section_url=18 - I emailed the local rep and I'll see if they do small-scale sales. Atlas Roofing seems to have an economy board that might work, and also has a glass-reinforced-core board that is probably the one I want to consider.

I'll update this as I find more information. If all else fails, I'll just jump across the border and get some from a hardware store down there.

Thanks for the quick responses!
-Good
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Re: DuroFoam vs. R-Max for a Hexayurt

Postby Canoe » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:09 am

Your link states "manufactured with non-reflective trilaminate facers".
They look nice and dark and capable of absorbing a lot of heat, which the insulation would then be fighting to reduce the rate of heat transfer to the inside. No idea how the tape would stick and hold up to their logoed surface that is absorbing heat in the sun.
You want a nice shiny radiant barrier on the outside.

I would strongly suggest that you stick to the products that have a proven track record for hexa-yurts used on the playa: for foam boards, aluminum foil tape for sealing the edges and the bi-filament tape used to join the structure, as you want a solid structure that tolerates playa winds and that helps reject heat. You don't want, like some have experienced, a hexa-yurt blowing apart and away.
Odd. No bears to watch in the dump. Oh well, lets go across the road & pick blueberries.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.
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Re: DuroFoam vs. R-Max for a Hexayurt

Postby TomServo » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:15 am

Silver Tarp and a spray bottle...or is that too much work? Yurts are becoming the new RV's.
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..
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Re: DuroFoam vs. R-Max for a Hexayurt

Postby Good » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:53 am

Canoe wrote:Your link states "manufactured with non-reflective trilaminate facers".


Actually, "non-reflective trilaminate facers (foil-kraft-foil) on the top side and a trilaminate or solid foil facer on the unprinted back side"

I would love to stick to the tried-and-tested supplies, but I just don't know if those will be an option. To be fair, I still don't even know if this supplier is an option - but I'll collect whatever info I can and I'll try and make the best decision.

TomServo wrote:Silver Tarp and a spray bottle...or is that too much work? Yurts are becoming the new RV's.


Haha, I don't think it's about the work, Tom :-) And the minute that my Yurt has a built in generator, A/C, toilet, and drives itself to the playa fully built I'll let you know!
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Re: DuroFoam vs. R-Max for a Hexayurt

Postby Canoe » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:48 am

Good wrote:
Canoe wrote:Your link states "manufactured with non-reflective trilaminate facers".

Actually, "non-reflective trilaminate facers (foil-kraft-foil) on the top side and a trilaminate or solid foil facer on the unprinted back side".

If you read through their various offerings, some are made with reflective foil facers, some with non-reflective facers. The one you linked to uses non-reflective facers (if installed on the outside of sheathing it's good for a "rain wall" if taped so you don't need to add and tape an additional house wrap before you add your exterior cladding). Not good for working as a heat reflective radiant barrier.

Among their offerings, their EnergyShield® PRO2:
...and a reflective foil facer on the back. EnergyShield® PRO2 features glass reinforcement in the polyiso core.
and appears to be an equivalent product.

Good wrote:...I would love to stick to the tried-and-tested supplies, but I just don't know if those will be an option...

Then you won't know if being able to use your hexa-yurt all week will be an option. If you deviate from what's tried-and-tested, I'd suggest you have a backup, like bringing a tent. That's what most people whose hexa-yurts fail end up in. I talked with one who was sharing a gifted tiny pup-tent after their hexa-yurt blew away after a few hours.
Odd. No bears to watch in the dump. Oh well, lets go across the road & pick blueberries.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.
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Re: DuroFoam vs. R-Max for a Hexayurt

Postby Canoe » Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:58 am

Lowe's Canada shows IKO 3/4-in x 4-ft x 8-ft Polyisocyanurate Insulated Sheathing online. Last year, local store had 3/4 and 1". 1" was $23.19.
May still have stock in physical store. Phone around?

Do not know of this product being used on-playa.

Notice the foil facer delaminating from the foam board from handling. You're taping all edges with aluminum foil tape, but it's not encouraging what will happen with wind buffeting on-playa.

IKO enerfoil.jpg

Product code "CCMC-13188-L", surface. PDF was available online.
IKO 1inch product code.jpg
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Odd. No bears to watch in the dump. Oh well, lets go across the road & pick blueberries.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.
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Re: DuroFoam vs. R-Max for a Hexayurt

Postby Good » Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:29 pm

Thanks Canoe, I really do appreciate your experience. All that I know I've gotten from readings and conversations, and all that anyone seems to agree upon is that the playa is a hostile environment. One of the last things that I want is to end up creating a giant mess and then taking up someone elses space.

I don't know what's happening on the internet, but the webpage that I visit and the webpage that you visit must be different. Maybe regionally, because I'm in Canada?

Regardless, I found that Dow is still producing Super TUFF-R (http://building.dow.com/na/en/products/insulation/supertuffr.htm) but that it's not available in certain states and (apparently) in Canada. I've contacted the sales reps to see if I can get a hold of some of it, somehow!
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