RV Under 25!

Ideas, advice, tips, and tricks regarding shelter, shade, tents, and camping. Yes, this includes RV's too.

RV Under 25!

Postby RebeccaGodfrey » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:42 am

Hi all,

We are two girls who are under 25 and first time Burners to Burning Man! We are looking for advice on how to rent an RV because of our age. We wondered about the following questions:

1) Is there anywhere you can rent an RV being under 25 years old?

2) Where do we go to look for people to share an RV with us who are old enough to rent one?

3) Is there anyway to attend Burning Man 2012 without an RV? If we camp using a tent, how do we get to the playa from Las Vegas? Are there coaches?

Any information we would be very grateful for!

Thanks, and see you there :D
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby CornMan » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:13 am

Oh, I thought you were going to talk about a rental RV under 25 feet long. Americans generally don't do smart things like that. I don't know if it's due to the low price of gas here that keeps us from changing over to smaller vehicles. It is ironic that Obama is being harangued for the high price of gas which is in reality quite low.

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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:16 am

You'd be very lucky to find an RV to rent this late. (Seriously, some people book a year ahead, even apart from the burn, the Labor Day weekend means that there are plenty of people looking to have an rv, so they are hard to find.)
There are no coaches. You will have to rent a car, or find someone--or ones--to drive you in. There are threads that talk about this and tell you how to get off a plane and buy what you need in Reno, prior to getting to the burn.
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby RebeccaGodfrey » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:41 am

Yes, unfortunately we are under 25 years OLD! Which makes it even more tricky for us to plan Burning Man. Renting a car is probably our best bet, but I understand there are expensive surchanges for this also, if you are under 25. Do you know how we would go about trying to share a car with someone? Reno seems a lot closer to the playa, if we wanted to go from Las Vegas, is this too far to drive?

Sorry if the questions seem naive - we are from England and first time burners!
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby Rice » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:57 am

Hi,

An RV is completely unnecessary for attendance to Burning Man. In fact, some possibly misguided purists claim that RV's are "ruining" BM (whatever that means ;) ).

I have stayed in a tent for the last 5 burns. It is completely doable. Since you will be starting from Vegas, you can probably find cheap flights to get you and your friend to Reno. Once there, it would be quite easy to find a ride-share up to Burning Man. The money that you save on not renting a RV would cover both your flights and the purchase of gear once in Reno!

Have you and your friend read the survival guide? The first-timer's guide?? If you have not read all of that material from cover to cover you might be in for a shock. Simply, the desert is trying to kill you. Failing to follow the simple precautions may result in a Burning Man experience involving time in the Medic tent or possibly a ride in a medical evacuation chopper.

To start off with, please read the following:

http://www.burningman.com/preparation/e ... index.html

http://www.burningman.com/first_timers/

http://www.burningman.com/preparation/

You can find answers to most questions on eplaya, using google, put the word "eplaya" as part of your query and go from there (ie: "eplaya reno airport").

I have driven down from Canada for my first 3 burns and then flown down for the last two. With the proper planning and some common sense, almost anyone can do it.

It will be hot (over 30C) and it might get cold (0C) so bring layers to accommodate the night time cool. There could be dust storms lasting 12 hours, and at times the wind could be over 80Kmph. Again, not a problem if you have some preparation.

Good luck.
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby RebeccaGodfrey » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:08 am

Tent it is then! Thank you for all your help and advice, we've gained so much knowledge just from reading a couple of posts! We havent booked our flights to Las vegas yet so its no problem to just book them to Reno instead (We will be coming from NYC).

If anyone is looking to travel from Reno it would be great to arrange it first.
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:12 am

There will be a rideshare board later in the year on this board.
Also, if you spend time here, you might meet people who'll help you with a ride.
May I suggest that you have your tickets for out of Reno on the Wednesday after the burn. If there's any problem, extra time is likely to solve it. Last year car crashes on I-80 had traffic at a crawl all the way to the playa at the very same time when most people were leaving. Having a cushion is wonderful. It also means you can stop and get clean and "decompress" a bit before you have to function in "real" world ways.
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby RebeccaGodfrey » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:17 am

Sounds like allowing more time is definitely a good idea. Weird question, but if we pitch up a tent, can we stay right on the playa? Iv heard there are restricted areas for theme camps, any there are other restricted areas? Are there any communal toilets or showers? Or are these luxuries only for people who come in RV's?!
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:25 am

There are communal toilets, chemical variety. Showers are brought in by campers. An easy fix is baby wipes. (Take your used ones off hte playa, please.) Possibly as a 25-year old girl you could find a shower to use--if you're comfortable with the people who brought it watching you. (That's one way, again perhaps the easiest.)
Yes, you can camp anywhere that no one else is camping. Placed theme camps have reserved spots, but once the gates open, people can use any unclaimed place.
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby Rice » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:33 am

RebeccaGodfrey wrote:Sounds like allowing more time is definitely a good idea. Weird question, but if we pitch up a tent, can we stay right on the playa? Iv heard there are restricted areas for theme camps, any there are other restricted areas? Are there any communal toilets or showers? Or are these luxuries only for people who come in RV's?!

Oh grasshopper, {sigh}

Ok, there are porta-potties (so, yes on the communal toilets).

Showers are not quite so easy. Most people make their own, bring water, heat the water and collect the resulting grey water. No grey water on the ground. So they either evaporate the grey water or haul it away. The only thing vaguely resembling "communal" showers is the Human Carcass Wash.

Burning Man is a Leave NO Trace event. No garbage cans, no cleaning crew. DO NOT let it hit the ground. MOOP (Matter Out Of Place) is anything that does not belong in the desert. Which means any litter, cigarette buts, peanut shells, lint, fluff, feathers, etc.

Seriously, you need to read the Survival guide that I first posted links to.

There are some areas that are marked off for theme camps. In most cases, you just find a open spot, check with your potential neighbours and set up. (You know that you will need better tent pegs than what a normal tent uses. I usually use foot long army-style aluminium tent pegs (that I found at a army surplus store here). I have also used rebar pegs that I had a friend make for me.)

One of the principles of Burning Man is "Radical Self-Reliance" ie: rely on yourself to make sure you have what you need, have a plan, etc. Most burners will give you a hand if something goes wrong, but look on you negatively if you expect to be taken care of. I have had shit fail due to poor planning and felt like a jerk begging for help from my neighbours. I have also had well planned stuff fail and needed help (I was glad for the help I got then too).

Have you gotten in touch with your local regional group?? http://regionals.burningman.com/us_ny.html

Usually the regional group has good advice, shared resources, socials, etc. that help make one's preparation for BM much less stressful.
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby catinthefunnyhat » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:37 am

OK, minor threadjack here, but I've been wondering about showers for a while...

It's such a long time since my visit to BM (in 2000), and so many things have changed -- in particular, it seems, the regular use of showers. I'm sure that back then, most camps didn't have them. We didn't. We just did put a chair on the evap pad and sponge-bathed ourselves. It was very water-efficient, and I thought we were up to community standards of cleanliness. But now, showers seem to be integral to camp life... or at least that's the impression I get on ePlaya. Is this actually the case? Are people really maintaining such high standards of personal care? If true, I'm both impressed and a little wistful.
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:42 am

Showers are typically 5 gallon black bag deals, although some do have gas heated ones.
I say, meh. I hate showering outside anyway. The cold breeze thing just kills me for it.
But yes, showers are a "deal". People care. I guess as the burn gets bigger, and moves away from the sort of guerrilla roots it had, and as the clever people learn more about how to make showers and evaporate and export the water, the standards are rising. I guess. It's a fairly constant discussion topic here. It's too neurotic for me, but whatever.
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby Rice » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:49 am

catinthefunnyhat wrote:OK, minor threadjack here, but I've been wondering about showers for a while...

It's such a long time since my visit to BM (in 2000), and so many things have changed -- in particular, it seems, the regular use of showers. I'm sure that back then, most camps didn't have them. We didn't. We just did put a chair on the evap pad and sponge-bathed ourselves. It was very water-efficient, and I thought we were up to community standards of cleanliness. But now, showers seem to be integral to camp life... or at least that's the impression I get on ePlaya. Is this actually the case? Are people really maintaining such high standards of personal care? If true, I'm both impressed and a little wistful.


I keep it simple. I use one of those garden sprayers while standing on a towel.

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Baby wipes can also make life fresh-feeling. There are some wipes that have aloe which makes body care much easier. If you wear makeup there are wipes that cater to that need as well.

Image

I have also used solar showers. It mostly depends on what you want and how much effort your are prepared to make. A solar shower will generate enough grey water to require a evap pond. (I now fly in and camp minimalist, therefore no evap pond for me...)

One could go the whole burn without a shower. Some need one twice a day ({cough} {sparkepony} {cough}).... It all depends.

No one who matters will care if you shower or not.
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby RebeccaGodfrey » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:11 pm

Thanks for all the help! I have been to many british festivals and never showered, only used baby wipes. So thatll be how I do it at burning man too. I have another question - this time about bikes! Where can you get them from? Presumably you have to bring them yourselves? So if im travelling from reno I could pick up two cheap bikes there? How does everyone else usually do it?
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby C187 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:12 pm

Rebecca,

The first thing I'd suggest is to skip Las Vegas all together. Since between the UFOs, radioactivity, and dirt roads you don't have the most direct route available from south east Nevada to north west Nevada. The rural west isn't like what we're used to here out east with twenty different ways to go to any location from any location. So you're pretty much stuck with US-95 to go from Las Vegas to Reno. Granted it's almost a straight line but, the time it would take to drive though it, and all the little towns just isn't worth it. No matter how cool Rhyolite, NV is. Plus if you were flying into Las Vegas to gamble before hand, you can do that practically anywhere in Nevada. In fact you'll be hard pressed to find a gas station you can't play slots in.

Like others have said you don't need an RV, and it looks like you've settled on using a tent. So to the question of renting a car...
One of my close friends rented a car seven or so years ago for the burn under the age of twenty-five and is still somewhat upset about how much she was nickel and dimed. It was bad then, and can't be much better now. So why deal with the headache if it can be avoided? If all else fails, renting a car yourself could be a last resort. Just remember they will charge you for everything they can, and might even try to sneak in a cleaning fee a month later.

All hope is not lost, however. As fishy pointed out the rideshare board will be up later in the year, and even some of the info strech pointed out has some tips on the matter. I, however will point you to the regionals page, since it will have contact info for someone in your area that can lead you to others in your area heading out to the burn as well. Some of these people might be able to offer you a ride from Reno to the playa, and back. It's also not unheard of for groups to pitch-in to rent a box truck that a couple of people drive out from your local area, that can haul larger gear (like shade that might not be able to go onto a airplane), or bicycles.

Even if no one in your area is driving out, you could always hook up with someone else that's flying in whom is over 25, and would be willing to share rental cost with. Just have that person rent the car, and avoid silly charges. Plus since they are from your area, you can meet them long before hitting Reno, unlike a stranger from some web-forum.

Like with all things, some basic logic, and common sense goes a long way when planing.

-----
edit: I knew I shouldn't of walked away from writing for so long... fishy's second post was were this topic ended when I started. *shigh*

For the bikes question, some shops in Reno rent out bikes, but that might be hard to come by.
Most people bring their own...

I'm not sure how available bikes are for buying in Reno at box-stores. I know the Fernley Wal-Mart is mostly picked clean, so I'd assume it's almost the same in Reno. One thing to keep in mind about buying a bike, or a lot of other stuff for that matter. Is almost all stores in the area have a ZERO RETURN policy for stuff bought before, during, and after Burning Man. So you can't just buy a bike, and return it in ten days.

Is that one family still "renting" bikes in Gerlach? I can't remember if they are or not... but if they are, you could pick up on with them.

Public bikes are available on the playa. They are called Yellow Bikes, you can't miss them because they are green, and have the words "yellow bike" on them. To use a yellow bike you simple pick up one that someone isn't on, and ride it to your destination. Then dismount it, and leave it by the road in plain sight for someone else to use. You can not bring yellow bikes into a camping area.
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby Rice » Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:56 pm

The Fernley Walter Mart has a large stock of bikes, that have been pre-assembled for your convenience. I picked one up a day or two after the gates opened with no issue. There is a few places in Reno to rent bikes but one would have to research that themselves.
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby SnowBlind » Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:57 pm

RebeccaGodfrey wrote:Are there any communal toilets or showers? Or are these luxuries only for people who come in RV's?!


I know you've already been convinced that you don't need an RV, and I agree, I've tent camped every year.

But just to correct the assumption that people in RVs are better off with their showers and toilets, a lot of people actually don't use them. Most RVs have fairly small water tanks, both fresh water as well as grey/black water. That means that they won't be showering a lot unless they can get water refilled and black water pumped while on the playa, which ain't easy. Further more, a lot of people avoid using the toilet as it makes the whole RV smelly.

As far as bikes go, while sometimes I like to walk to have more time to appreciate things on the playa, it *is* nice to have a bike. My first year we didn't, and it was hard to make it out to the deep playa. So they are not necessary, but very nice to have. As C187 mentioned, there are community bikes called Yellow Bikes that you can use, but you won't always find one when you need one.

There are one or more places in Reno that will rent bikes for burning man, and take them back afterwards to fix them up for next year. They take reservations and usually get booked out at some point, so you should reserve one early. If you are not subscribed to the Jack Rabbit Speaks newsletter you should do so. I think there is usually an announcement on there about the bikes.
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby some seeing eye » Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:35 pm

You have picked a great first year in that many established camps are seeking participants! If you join one, they may have a lot of the infrastructure, like a kitchen, shade, seating and shower/ grey water management. Tenting in that situation is relatively luxurious. Some camps even have a shade structure for all their tents. Some camps may be able to arrange to pick you up in Reno/help shop. They may have camp fees to defray costs or want people to build/remove the camp. Staying late is a special bonding experience. Same for early arrival, though options for that are scarce.

With all the video Skype, hangouts, etc. there is a great opportunity to test & select camp compatibility.

There is also a block of rooms rented in one of the hotels in Reno after the burn to meet more people and clean up. (Dr Pyro?) Or maybe connect with a SF-Oakland camp and loop out of there.

If you are a costume person at festivals in the UK, Burningman is that to the max, though plenty of people are uncostumed.

There are plenty of packing lists around, which you can divide into, bring by air, shop for in Reno, and if you are camping with a group, camp has that. Broken-in footwear, clothes and costumes generally fall into the bring by air - hard to find in Reno with a time limit.

As you represent yourself to potential camps, consider what special skills you have to contribute. Responsible is essential. First time burners are valued for the wide-eyed stories the bring back to the jaded ones in their camp, but that, or being a performer, is highly unlikely to be the reason to be invited into a camp.

Enjoy your burn!
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby BBadger » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:41 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Showers are typically 5 gallon black bag deals, although some do have gas heated ones.
I say, meh. I hate showering outside anyway. The cold breeze thing just kills me for it.


Got that right. It is cold--even in playa heat--and I usually end up just as dusty 15 minutes later (if not more if my hair did not dry out). I also feel pretty clean in general from the desiccant nature of the playa, as it seems to remove the stickiness of sweat. There's something about living through the apocalypse and washing a pound of dust off my body at the end back in Defaultia that I like too.
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby Savannah » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:12 pm

catinthefunnyhat wrote:OK, minor threadjack here, but I've been wondering about showers for a while...

It's such a long time since my visit to BM (in 2000), and so many things have changed -- in particular, it seems, the regular use of showers. I'm sure that back then, most camps didn't have them. We didn't. We just did put a chair on the evap pad and sponge-bathed ourselves. It was very water-efficient, and I thought we were up to community standards of cleanliness. But now, showers seem to be integral to camp life... or at least that's the impression I get on ePlaya. Is this actually the case? Are people really maintaining such high standards of personal care? If true, I'm both impressed and a little wistful.


Yes & no . . . overall city-wide standards of cleanliness haven't changed, in my opinion. People don't smell amazingly better or any worse; they smell as much of dust and sunscreen (and sometimes sweat) as ever.

Factors in what you may be seeing:

* Virgins & inexperienced campers show a lot of concern on ePlaya about showers (worried about comfort, & about offending) which is always met with
* equal concern on the part of the part of seasoned Burners trying to get them not to make huge puddles (its own kind of cultural offense).
* Some camps are offering more; it's a popular way to raise attendance.
* People are figuring out showering strategies over the years (I started in 2000 too; and practice & repetition is the only reason I'm clean out there)
* You probably weren't gauging rates of shower-talk on ePlaya in 2000, if it existed then (I don't even know! So bad!)

Anyway . . . the topic ends up getting discussed a lot here, but human nature and the playa and the overall cleanliness remains the same. Virgins don't yet realize that the heat is a dry heat, no one is quite held to the outside world standards, that you can bathe with a bottle of water, how any OCD they have will probably relax from outside world standards, & that the average person is not showering every day.
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby mamasharon » Thu May 03, 2012 9:53 pm

Ladies, it sounds like you might need some help, so I'm inviting you to join the Dragon Wagon Theme Camp. Mamasharon will take you under her wing and show you how to fly at Burning Man. Our camp has ample shade and my RV helps block the wind. but most of all we're well equipped already so if you can't bring much it won't matter. We're just forming now and have three other newbies in the camp so far. Let me know if you are interested. We'd love to add some international flair to our camp. Mamasharon
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby MyDearFriend » Fri May 04, 2012 8:34 am

Mamasharon, you can call me crazy or snarky or whatever you like, but I would not get involved with anybody who so resolutly refused to read the Survival Guide. People like that really frighten me.
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby fresh » Tue May 22, 2012 7:50 am

Definitely fly into Reno! I did that one year and it was easy with car rental, buying food and supplies, and BAM you are on the playa in a couple hours. You may want to search the ride share boards and find someone who will rent the car with you who might be old enough to avoid the extra fees. Make sure the person who you hook up with is reliable (I learned my lesson the hard way!). Also I agree with the person who said make your return flight for wednesday (could do tuesday) to ensure you have the time to get there. You can stay for cheap in Reno, take a real shower, sleep in a real bed, and maybe win a couple bucks at the slots :D . This will also give you time to thoroughly clean the rental car. If you do not clean it properly, you will get dinged for about $250 cleaning fee. Trust me it will be a mess no matter how much you avoid dust in the car and the rental companies will be looking real hard to find the proof of the playa that week!! As far as bikes, I know there are some burner bike rental outlets in Reno, but it may be hard to find one now and it might be a hassle to get it there on the rental car without a bike rack....
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby Dis)'(rack » Thu May 24, 2012 2:19 pm

Once you get your greeting dust angel out of the way, then get hit by the first dust storm, you'll find your primal savage side and all will be well in the world. Water just washes off the sexiness.

Speaking of dust angels, I will be greeting again...I love flippin em over like pancakes as they sizzle like bacon at my station. Freakin love it.

I also love it when they act like they aren't birgins, but you can smell the fresh fish at the back of the car.

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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby chica63 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:17 pm

*memorizes @Dis)'(rack's face and prepares burgin self to be toyed with at the gate*

:P lol
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Re: RV Under 25!

Postby Dis)'(rack » Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:54 am

chica63 wrote:*memorizes @Dis)'(rack's face and prepares burgin self to be toyed with at the gate*

:P lol


Just make sure you wear your best outfit and make sure you clean the interior of your vehicle prior to hitting the greeters. We'll be impatiently waiting for you.

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