Hexayurt vs Popup Camper?

Ideas, advice, tips, and tricks regarding shelter, shade, tents, and camping. Yes, this includes RV's too.

Hexayurt vs Popup Camper?

Postby sprite » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:55 am

We went to the playa for the first time in 2007, took a few years off due to family/finance issues, and will be returning in 2011. I'm not fond of the idea of tent camping for this round, especially considering that we have a young daughter that we may be bringing, and that I may be pregnant when we come. Finances are an issue- we've looked at renting an RV and we simply can't make it work. Since we'll be driving in from Michigan, the gas cost on top of the rental fee and deposit is a couple thousand more than any other option I've priced out.

I think we should be able to swing a popup camper rental, and it certainly seems it would be easier than a hexayurt. There will be just two of us for setup, and that might be a problem for the hexayurt, from what I hear. Although we'll be camping adjacent to some dear friends we met in 2007 who will almost certainly be eager to help, we can't count on that. Are popups really as dusty and uncomfortable as tents?
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Postby C.f.M. » Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:09 am

This year, for the first time ever, I camped in one of the canvas tents (I don't know if it was Springbar or Kodiak).

It was dust-free.

I want to think it might give you more space than a pop-up camper, as well.

If you do a search for the misc. canvas tent threads on here, you'll see nothing but extolling of their virtures.

I've experienced tents, canvas tents and the hexayurts, and my vote is for the canvas tent.
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Postby CapSmashy » Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:37 am

Yes, you lived in one of my Kodiaks dear. :)



The Kodiaks (and Springbars) come in several different sizes. The two brands are virtually identical in terms of build materials and attention to detail with the Kodiak having several standard features that are optional on Springbars. The Kodiaks are also approx $100 cheaper than the equivalent Springbar tent.

Cabelas stocks their full line in their online store and you can get it with free or really cheap shipping if you order during one of their promo deals. Or if you have one near you, ship to store.

As C.F.M. said, they stay pretty close to dust free. The only dust we had in ours for the years we used them (we have a converted school bus these days) was pretty much what we brought in with us. For regular camping, they hold up well in storms and mine stayed dry and cozy during the flooding and torrential rain we had a regional event last year.

If you run a swamp cooler or heater, the canvas walls do an excellent job of holding the temperature. All of the windows and doors zip up with full flaps to keep it weather tight.
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Postby lucky420 » Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:43 am

I vote hexayurt. 2010 was my virgin year and we went with the yurt. My daughter and i arrived on Monday (earlier than our other campmates). It was just the 2 of us putting up the hexayurt and when it came time to put the roof on, some of our lovely neighbors came over and helped us out. It really isn't that hard to do. Hexayurts have a lot of room in them-16 ft across. There are many door options, in case you have a hard time squatting down and crawling through (pregnant). We had fund decorating the interior with tapestries and artwork...Tape and panels for the yurt cost around $500 here in Nevada.
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Postby Fire_Moose » Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:53 am

I just saw my friends Kodiak tent at a work party for our AZDC. That thing is BAD ASS!

One of those will prolly be my next big purchase. It'll last you YEARS of hearty camping.
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Postby sprite » Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:24 am

Interesting... I've considered those canvas tents in the past, but since they're several hundred dollars more expensive than the equivalent nylon tent, I've said "maybe a few years down the line." But it would be cheaper than renting a popup for a week and a half. And easier than a hexayurt. We'd also be able to quickly assemble it on any campgrounds we stop at on the way.

My beloved is very enamored of the idea of having a sink and potty to use within our own space. I don't think a sink within a popup camper has any more power or efficiency than a seven gallon water suitcase. And we never had issues with the portapotties in '07- they were amazingly clean and well maintained, except on Friday and Saturday night.

So, a swamp cooler is the preferred method for cooling a canvas tent?
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Postby ConnieH » Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:31 am

I've spent two burns in a hexayurt, and while I do seriously love the thing, something easier to set up is on my mind for next year. The advantages to a pop-up camper that I can see are: easy to set up (just crank it up, fold out the ends), most have a fridge and running water, some come with a portapotty, easy to hitch up and go, comfy beds all ready to go, cuts way down on the gear you need to bring. Disadvantages: could get hot without a/c, smallish space inside, could be expensive to rent, cleaning for return could be a bitch as it will get dusty.

The advantages to a hexayurt: much larger space, no cooling is really required, pretty much dust free, lightweight. Disadvantages: takes a few people to set up, can't set up in a wind storm, rain can screw up your tape job, need to bring all your gear - beds, tables, chairs, kitchen equipment, etc., etc....

Cost is probably close to the same, I imagine, unless you go for a full RV, I think those run $600-up? Could you rent a pop-up closer to BRC in order to save money on gas?

If we didn't run a theme camp with lots of structures to put up (and take down!), I'd still be in love with my yurt...and fighting the elements our first few days this year took it's toll on me. Spending our first two nights in my teeny tent because it was too wet and windy to put up the yurt...sucked...hard.
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Postby mudpuppy000 » Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:37 am

The tent sounds like a good idea to me too. I've never tried it but the pop ups I've seen all have mesh sides, and seem like they would be extremely dusty.
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Postby C.f.M. » Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:59 am

sprite wrote:Interesting... I've considered those canvas tents in the past, but since they're several hundred dollars more expensive than the equivalent nylon tent, I've said "maybe a few years down the line." But it would be cheaper than renting a popup for a week and a half. And easier than a hexayurt. We'd also be able to quickly assemble it on any campgrounds we stop at on the way.

My beloved is very enamored of the idea of having a sink and potty to use within our own space. I don't think a sink within a popup camper has any more power or efficiency than a seven gallon water suitcase. And we never had issues with the portapotties in '07- they were amazingly clean and well maintained, except on Friday and Saturday night.

So, a swamp cooler is the preferred method for cooling a canvas tent?


There's plenty of ways to have your own sink and toilet. I have to say, I was also pleasantly surprised at how clean the toilets near my camp stayed for a week. For my regionals, I do my own bathroom set-up.

There's different variations on sinks and evap ponds/grey water disposal you can research (including doing a search on Eplaya).

If it was feasible for me, I would def upgrade to a canvas tent. The dust-freedom, privacy and all the nifty pockets were just wonderful.

As were the people who loaned it to me, and set it up and took it down for me. Beyond wonderful. :wink:
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Postby Bob » Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:13 am

IMO trailers are a hassle unless you love driving slow. On the desert, popup campers need to be staked in place, otherwise they tend to wander around in heavy winds. Even then it may rock like a canvas tent. So, no worse than a tent, except for taking up ten times the space at ten times the cost. Rent one and try it out back home some weekend. Buying stuff solely for Burning Man is kinda dumb, so I'd look at dependable canvas tents before a hexa-whatever.
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Postby sprite » Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:20 am

Well, we'll be doing a trailer either way. Whether it's a uhaul to bring out our furniture, tent and full-size traffic signal set-up, or a camper with all the furniture and crap enclosed inside, we'll be doing some sloooww driving. I don't know that it will be any slower than it was last time. We had essentially no rear visibility- our small SUV was stuffed to the gills with crap, and we had the traffic signal strapped to the top under a flappy blue tarp. We looked like the Clampetts driving down the road.
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Postby Boijoy » Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:30 am

This was my first year in a Kodiac Canvas tent & it was awesome.
Easy breezy lemon peezy to put up & I didn't have to worry about the wind or dust geting inside.. they are sturdy! Have my own potty inside & my sink is out side with the kitchen set up ( where it should be IMO ). I owned a pop up trailer for a couple years. I didn't much care for driving with it OR backing the dang thing up & the beds were not comfortable. I didn't like cooking it in because the food smells linger & I was not so sure about gas flames inside a canvas enclosure.
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Postby C.f.M. » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:15 am

sprite wrote:Well, we'll be doing a trailer either way. Whether it's a uhaul to bring out our furniture, tent and full-size traffic signal set-up, or a camper with all the furniture and crap enclosed inside,


Then just camp in your Uhaul. Loads of people do that.
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Postby phil » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:18 am

Hi, sprite,

As you know, everything's a compromise. I've never owned a tent trailer, and I'm hesitant about popup trailers on the playa lasting through a heavy windstorm. I'd post a separate thread asking for popup trailer experiences to see what people who've used them have to say.

Louise and I have used a Springbar the last two years. They are not dust-free, but they do keep out more dust than other tents we've had. Because they're heavy canvas (40 lbs for the tent alone, not frame and stakes), the tents don't blow and flap in the wind like nylon and other thin fabric tents do.

Louise and I are never in our tent during the day, so we have no information on how to keep it cool. The tent has no fly. Our other tents at Burning Man were 4-season tents with full flies, and our experience with them at BM and at Death Valley over Thanksgivings is that 4-season tents are about 10 degrees warmer at night than outside; our Springbar was just as cold inside as out at Burning Man - no fly, I presume.

We've got the 10x14 Vagabond. It's too big, really, but you can never have too much space inside. Standing headroom throughout, standing headroom when you walk in the front flap. Some photos here, and a video or two:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/civex/sets ... 973886300/

We had some problems this year, as noted in the vid. We emailed Springbar, and they paid to have it shipped back. They identified one problem with their construction from the photos online (a flap sewn on upside down), and they'll look at other issues we raised. None of our problems was a killer, but we did have a minor leak in the rain on Monday - and it was not much of a rain. They're looking into that problem now that they have the tent.

The tent cannot be laundered. I've been soaking our nylon (or whatever) tents in the tub then spreading them out on the porch to dry, but this tent is too big and too heavy, and canvas takes too long to dry. The recommended method of cleaning is to set it up, hose it off and wipe down with a soft brush. No soap or detergent as the canvas is treated with silicone. No huge commercial washer, as the mesh might be damaged (according to Springbar's support person).

The 10x14 will give you room (but not privacy) for a small bucket toilet. I don't know how you'd work out a sink since there's no drainage, but I'm sure it could be done depending on what compromises you make. The toilet would be black water you can dispose of in the portapotties, but the sink would be gray water you'd have to take care of yourself.

On help with setting stuff up, I would never worry about getting help at Burning Man. Burners as a whole are self-selected to be helpful, generous, and kind. If you need help with your yurt, tent trailer, or tent, just ask whoever's around, and you'll get willing volunteers.

Whatever you decide on, plan ahead and use it before you get on the playa so that you're comfortable with whatever problems crop up. If you camp yearround, buying a tent may make sense for you. If not, then I'd consider renting the trailer - but rent one and set it up ahead of time at least once to make sure you understand how to stake it down, zip it up for dust storms, etc. If you don't get a lot of popup posts here, ask about popup problems/advantages on a separate thread so you get the attention of popup users.
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Postby gaminwench » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:30 am

I've only twice seen pop-ups in our camp... both looked great on the first day, neither survived the first winds; those folks had to come up with plan B on the playa...
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Postby teardropper » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:34 am

I don't think pop-ups are really very good for the playa. I talked to some veteran pop-up campers, not Burners, who like their units just fine, but didn't think much of being in one during 60-70 mph winds. Just because we haven't had them in the last couple of years doesn't mean we won't. There seems to be some possibility of folding back up in high winds. I have seen them on playa and they do appear dusty. The only person I knew that used one sold it over the winter and brought a tiny travel trailer.

One of my campmates used a Springbar, a large one with windows. Those could all be well secured and with a queen sized cot with memory foam he seemed comfortable and it was low dust. The only thing about the Springbar is that they are American made.
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Postby C.f.M. » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:08 pm

a small bucket toilet. I don't know how you'd work out a sink since there's no drainage,

Image

+

Image

+

Image

Just me and this set-up works great, max time I've used it...6 days?

Can't vouch for how it'd work for three people.
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Postby sprite » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:22 pm

Wow, you guys are being a really great help sorting things out in my head. I'm definitely moving away from the pop-up idea, but i will start a thread devoted solely to that topic if the guy continues to be really interested in doing it. Thanks for all the info on the Springbars, Phil.

I can't wrap my brain around camping in my uhaul. It seems hot, dusty, and uncomfortable. It's possible we'll get a minivan between now and then. We'll probably still have to strap the signal and the monkey hut pieces to the roof rack, but I think we'd be able to squeak by without a trailer in that case, even if we were to bring the little sprog.
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Postby ConnieH » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:10 pm

Since you are set up to tow something already, you might want to keep your eyes open for a teeny little travel trailer - sometimes you can find them real cheap, especially if they need a little work, maybe less than the rental cost.
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Postby Da Mule » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:26 pm

sprite wrote:I can't wrap my brain around camping in my uhaul. It seems hot, dusty, and uncomfortable. It's possible we'll get a minivan between now and then. We'll probably still have to strap the signal and the monkey hut pieces to the roof rack, but I think we'd be able to squeak by without a trailer in that case, even if we were to bring the little sprog.


Junglesmacks is a big fan of sleeping in cargo vans. Check out his experience. I forget how to point to a particular post, but he has 2 posts in this thread that describe it.
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Postby Elderberry » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:31 pm

I'm definitely biased toward the HexaYurt.

The first thing I want to stress is that this is Burning Man. Even though there are only two of you, almost everyone there would be happy to lend a hand to help you out with the building. My experience is that sometimes you get too many eager helpers!

Wind can be a problem and the last two years, setup for us was in one case delayed until sun down when the wind finally subsided and we set-up under artificial lighting. The second case (this year) we ended up sleeping in the back of our box truck the first day as the weather was just dreadful.

Regarding the rain--it only is a problem if you get lazy with your taping--like we did this year. If you take the time to make sure you smooth down all of the tape--either with a squeegee (which we always bring to help with the taping) or using the roll of tape itself to rub out all the creases, you won't have any problems with water leaking in.

The Yurt also wraps up into a neat and not too heavy 4'x8'x1' package that can also be carefully tied to a roof rack too.

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Postby mudpuppy000 » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:43 pm

Da Mule wrote:
sprite wrote:I can't wrap my brain around camping in my uhaul. It seems hot, dusty, and uncomfortable. It's possible we'll get a minivan between now and then. We'll probably still have to strap the signal and the monkey hut pieces to the roof rack, but I think we'd be able to squeak by without a trailer in that case, even if we were to bring the little sprog.


Junglesmacks is a big fan of sleeping in cargo vans. Check out his experience. I forget how to point to a particular post, but he has 2 posts in this thread that describe it.


I love sleeping in the back of my SUV. It's nice and quiet and wind/dust/drunk proof. :)
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Postby CapSmashy » Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:55 pm

sprite wrote:So, a swamp cooler is the preferred method for cooling a canvas tent?


Its a much more efficient cooling system in the desert and easy to set up in a tent. There's a really good thread on home built units running around here.
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Postby danibel » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:01 pm

If by chance you don't bring the child that will require a car seat, I highly recommend a cargo van. I have used one for the past two years and it is really great. I have had enough room for all my stuff (including a north pole, bikes, kitchen set up) plus I use it to sleep in. I bought a queen size futon off CL and I put it in first, folded in half. Then I pile everything (and I do mean everything) in on top and next to it. After I unload the bikes, shade structure, and coolers, I unfold the futon and make the van comfy cozy. It would be nice to have a costco carport for extra morning shade but this past year we slept until 11ish, no problem. We parked it so that the morning sun hit the back doors and sealed those two windows with reflection stuff. We never opened the back doors and put a towel on the side step for shoes to rest on. If you need more space while traveling you could put a bike rack on it and haul those on the outside. I just prefer to have everything inside and not worry about anything blowing off.

Downside - only two seats with seatbelts. A bitch to clean if you rent it (ours had this black rubber mat that playa LOVES to stick to). Can get hot, but a swamp cooler would help. The inside is "sparse." Tapestries to hang would be nice.

I like the idea of using the box truck as a living space. If I can't find a good deal on a used cargo van before next spring, I will consider this route as well.
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Postby C.f.M. » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:00 am

Though theoretically there's thousands of people right there who'd be willing to help, it doesn't mean they'll actually be there when you need them.

I took a huge dome last year, mainly because my friend/drive out there/campmate swore he'd help me set it up.

And guess what?

Not so much.

So plan for, "Although we'll be camping adjacent to some dear friends we met in 2007 who will almost certainly be eager to help, we can't count on that."

Radical self-reliance and all that.
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Postby junglesmacks » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:06 am

danibel wrote:
I like the idea of using the box truck as a living space. If I can't find a good deal on a used cargo van before next spring, I will consider this route as well.


Yup. The box truck thing rules, completely. You have pretty much an RV at a fraction of the price. I've harped on the benefits 732897893274 times this year, so I won't bore you all again. Just yet another opportunity to vote for the box truck as the ultimate affordable living space/shade structure/transportation mode.
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Postby sprite » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:45 am

In our particular situation, the van or box truck idea becomes untenable just due to distance. When renting a popup or trailer, The mileage is unlimited. But the mileage cost on renting something with an engine- at 2200 miles and 55 cents a mile over the 500 mile max, that's an extra $1000. Plus the higher rental fees on engine based vehicles.... At that point I'm $500 away from getting an RV anyway, so I might as well save the trouble and do that.
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Postby sprite » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:47 am

Although, come to think of it, I haven't looked into the additional mileage fees on trucks and vans versus RVs. it may well be much more reasonable. As mentioned above, not workable for car seats, however.
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Postby junglesmacks » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:12 am

sprite wrote:In our particular situation, the van or box truck idea becomes untenable just due to distance. When renting a popup or trailer, The mileage is unlimited. But the mileage cost on renting something with an engine- at 2200 miles and 55 cents a mile over the 500 mile max, that's an extra $1000. Plus the higher rental fees on engine based vehicles.... At that point I'm $500 away from getting an RV anyway, so I might as well save the trouble and do that.


Well, what I did was fly in to Reno, and rent from Budget on Gentry Way. I paid $22/day, plus $0.16/mile with unlimited miles for a 16' box truck. The thing was gigantic inside.. HUGE. This was a corporate rate (which anyone can get) with a coupon code found online.

After all was said and done, I drove that thing more than 700 miles.. going from Reno to SLT (South Lake Tahoe) to BRC to SLT to Carson City to SLT to Reno.

I returned it covered in dust and let them do the cleaning for me. I didn't clean a thing. They charged me $100 pre-arranged cleaning fee to do this.

For 11 days rental, massive amount of miles, covered in dust, with all taxes fees and BS included.. it came to $600. They are way more fuel efficient than I thought.. I spent only $110 total in gas for all that driving. Not even joking. That was with using easily 1/3 of a tank idling and stop and go-ing in the entry and exodus lines.


Also.. with regard sto car seats.. You can request a 3 seater truck. Just ask ahead of time. I did, and then gave a ride to someone from the ride share forum for help with gas money. Also made yet another beautiful lifelong friend in NYC because of it :)


How would that compare to an RV?
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Postby sprite » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:13 am

I'm not sure how that compares once we get into the cost of plane fare and of shipping our stuff. But it certainly gives me something to think about with a pad and paper.
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