How far can or should you drive REBAR in the playa?

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How far can or should you drive REBAR in the playa?

Postby BeachAmigo » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:03 am

REBAR:

Best ways to get rebar in the playa, without tearing it up?

I remember just giving up after driving rebar less than a foot, in what seemed to be dust made of steel.

Will 8 inch do? ( Jokes start now)

1/2 rebar a good size? (Jokes continue)

45 degree cut for the bottom end helps what amount?

And getting the rabar back out, is that best done with a farm jack? Or any other tricks?

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Postby ygmir » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:40 am

there has been much discussion, and many threads here, addressing your questions.........I don't use rebar, but, a search will help you with your questions.
some threads, IIRC, even have "rebar" in the title.......

good luck
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Postby Bob » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:01 am

Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Postby justfred » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:08 am

Any less than six full feet deep will never hold.

What are you trying to hold down? For tents, rebar is overkill; use good tent stakes instead.
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Postby Hoolie » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:38 am

Ya gotta have the right tool for the job, dude.

Full size sledgehammer with long handle to drive the rebar in.

Vise grips to remove it. (Clamp grips on rebar, spin it around a few times, rebar will lift out pretty easily after that).

As posted above, length, diameter, and depth depends on what you're trying to hold down.
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Postby lucky420 » Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:00 am

how far would you drive the rebar down for hexayurt anchors or would tent stakes work for a yurt? thanks...
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Postby Bob » Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:08 am

Yurts are magical, you don't need stakes.
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Postby phil » Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:06 am

> six full feet deep

Dang! I hate it when the feet are full. Does it _have_ to be full feet?
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Postby Bob » Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:12 am

> six full feet deep

Rebar is hard to fathom. Try a dead man's chest.
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Postby phil » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:01 pm

Bob wrote:> six full feet deep

Rebar is hard to fathom. Try a dead man's chest.


Sorry, but it's full fathom five thy father lies.
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Postby some seeing eye » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:51 pm

Mr Beach,

This is my subject. Removing is more an issue than driving.

I have driven 1/2 and 3/8 with an electric demolition hammer. Use a unit drawing 10-15 Amps with a ground rod driver bit that cups over rebar up to 3/4. That current draw translates to driving power in ft-lb or Newton-m. They drive in a few seconds literally at that energy.

The depth depends on the pull out strength required. For me, a foot to 18 inches was more than sufficient, how you attach things above to not pull off the protruding stake is of greater concern than the rebar pulling out of the ground. There is a great burner blacksmith who makes forged u-shaped stakes, easier to drive and pull for small structures.

If you are putting up a greater than 20' dome, something with a big wind load, a tower or big art project you need professional help AND the advice of teams that have put up similar.

Getting the rebar out of the playa is a different story. The vice grip twisting advice is bullshit. Digging around, adding water and using a big ass lever, like more than 10 feet, is the only way. I spent an average of 15 minutes per 12-18 inch buried rebar getting them out with an 8 foot lever. 20 rebar stakes, 5 hours.

If you cannot seriously get the rebar out, contact DPW. Very seriously. They will be cranky. The effects of a piece of upright metal left buried in the playa is a severe safety hazard and liability hazard to year round playa visitors, including high speed racers.

So just saying, the pleasure of insertion is weighed by the lifetime of responsibility dealing, as it should!
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Postby Hoolie » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:16 am

some seeing eye wrote:The vice grip twisting advice is bullshit.

Oh, really? Then why am I able to remove rebar with this method in less than 30 seconds per bar, year after year?
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Postby mudpuppy000 » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:17 am

Rebar pulls out easily if you twist it, I did it on several occasions by hand. That was after people had been whacking it with a sledgehammer trying to get it out though, so maybe that's the secret. You can use a high-lift jack too if you have it candy caned or some other way to grab onto it.
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Postby FIGJAM » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:28 am

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Postby some seeing eye » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:27 pm

That's been my experience on 8 burns with 3/8 and 1/2" rebar, driven to a depth of 12-18 inches, by machine and sledge, and with straight and oval jaw branded vice grips, even 2 vice grips on 1 rebar..

They just slip on the rebar rather than gripping. Your mileage may vary with candy cane rebar - using the curve for leverage, larger diameter rebar/circus stakes, or lesser playa penetration.
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Postby Elliot » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:48 pm

:D
Slickest way to pull stakes that I have seen yet, was with a "cherry picker" engine hoist.
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Postby ygmir » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:54 pm

I use the auger tip stakes, twist in, twist out, nothing sharp, have yet to have one pull free, no hammer swinging, just a 2' piece of pipe for a handle..........

but, wrestling with rebar might be fun..........
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Postby Bob » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:13 pm

Don't add water, it makes a gooey mess and creates more suction you have to fight against. Just tap with a hammer, wiggle with the Vice-Grips, pull, and wiggle some more as needed.

Anybody need private lessons in wiggling?
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Postby ygmir » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:15 pm

Bob wrote:Don't add water, it makes a gooey mess and creates more suction you have to fight against. Just tap with a hammer, wiggle with the Vice-Grips, pull, and wiggle some more as needed.

Anybody need private lessons in wiggling?


no hands?

after all, couches only have arms and feet, sometimes legs.
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Re: How far can or should you drive REBAR in the playa?

Postby Rommel » Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:55 pm

BeachAmigo wrote:REBAR:

Best ways to get rebar in the playa, without tearing it up?

I remember just giving up after driving rebar less than a foot, in what seemed to be dust made of steel.

Will 8 inch do? ( Jokes start now)

1/2 rebar a good size? (Jokes continue)

45 degree cut for the bottom end helps what amount?

And getting the rabar back out, is that best done with a farm jack? Or any other tricks?

PapiBear


Use military stakes, and save yourself the grief associated with rebar.
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Postby teardropper » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:34 pm

I have 16"+ rebar stakes with 90Ëš ends. The flat ends make it easier to drive than the candy canes. No spring when you hit them. I use a 3# hammer to drive with and put them completely into the playa. I use a vice grip and the twist-pull method to get them out. I just did it for my large North Pole shade and it works fine. There are other stakes that are workable. The 15" or 18" optional stakes for the Springbar tent, which are a V shape, hold very well.
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Re: How far can or should you drive REBAR in the playa?

Postby essjay » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:17 pm

I need to secure a dome to the playa. I would like to do this without ropes. Is there a way to bend rebar into a U shape without using heat? I was thinking of using the pipe method and trying to wedge a 6" pipe where it bends to form the U around that, but I am worried that the 6" pipe would "squirt out" once the pressure is applied. Thoughts?
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Re: How far can or should you drive REBAR in the playa?

Postby Drizzt321 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:41 pm

I found some pre-candycaned rebar at a landscaping/irrigation supply store nearby (in LA), maybe there's a similar store near you?
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