Silver Tarp beat the heat?

Ideas, advice, tips, and tricks regarding shelter, shade, tents, and camping. Yes, this includes RV's too.

Silver Tarp beat the heat?

Postby dewnorth » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:11 pm

I've poured through ePlaya about Aluminet, sheets of Mylar, Reflectix, Silvicool, Reflectra, etc. Has anyone had good or bad experiences with plain home supply store silver tarp? Number one is does it reflect the sun and keep the heat out? And is is strong enough for 70 mph winds? (Packages make it sound stronger than the blue stuff, which I read is not strong enough.)

For instance I wonder if it would work better on a carport than the white fabric carports come with. Or would it work as a cover over a tent to block the heat?

I'm guessing I'd want to add more grommets for more points to attach it. And if it worked as a carport cover, it would have a zillion grommets.

I believe Phil mentioned it didn't work well for him. Silver tarp isn't mentioned much on ePlaya, Is that because it doesn't work?

Thanks all.
User avatar
dewnorth
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:42 am
Location: New Ulm, Minnesota USA

Postby TomServo » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:22 pm

Silver tarps have always worked for me. All my tarps, I reinforce each grommet with a couple strips of duct tape. Have yet to have one fail. Also, I cut foot long slits around the tarp, to cut down the wind resistance.
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..
User avatar
TomServo
 
Posts: 6153
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:17 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: BloodBath&Beyond

Postby phil » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:14 pm

We've used a silver tarp for years. Nothing keeps the heat out in the ambient temperature. We have a silver tarp and a white rubberized canvas tarp, both of which are completely opaque, and that's the key from my perspective. Heat comes from infrared rays beaming down from the sun. Both our tarps keep IR out of our shade, and that's the best we're going to do, heatwise. If you have a tarp that you can't see the sun through, you'll be as cool as you're going to be on the playa.

Those blue tarps are no opaque, they're very noisy in the wind, and they do tear easier than the two tarps we've got.
User avatar
phil
 
Posts: 2975
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:10 pm
Location: Codgerville

Postby justfred » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:46 pm

A "silver" tarp becomes dust-colored and non-reflective very quickly, so it's pretty much the same as a medium shade of gray. White works better. Fitted tarps work better on carports than throwing a tarp over. Flapping tarps suck no matter what, thin and/or blue more so, so a thicker light-colored tarp would be the next best bet.

Aluminet/mylar/etc. work fairly well to shed dust - it's less "sticky" than a tarp, so it keeps some reflectivity for a while.
What goes around, comes around.
justfred
 
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 12:35 pm
Location: San Diego

Making silver or white tent fly

Postby dewnorth » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:08 pm

Thanks everyone!

I forgot to mention that I might fabricate (no pun intended) a new rain fly for my Eureka Equinox out of reflective or white material to replace the one that came with the tent. The new fly could cover everything but the door.

Then it would look like a bright gumdrop. Or if my fly was flesh-colored, it would look like a..............oh, never mind.
User avatar
dewnorth
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:42 am
Location: New Ulm, Minnesota USA

Postby gyre » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:54 am

Those are gray, not silver.
They are neutral in reflectivity, absorbing about 50%.
Opaque is key.
The good ones use a metal or black layer to block heat.
Shelter Systems claims to have the best cheap ones.
http://shelsys.com/

There was a camp last year with lots of reflective silver cover.
Very effective.
Anybody know the name of the camp?
They had a hamster wheel bike.
User avatar
gyre
 
Posts: 15465
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Postby epic_elite » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:07 pm

we had a "silver" tarp over our puma cave that was black on the other side...

True - it did not let light through
also true - it did not keep the cave cooler than outside.


the silver may have reflected some heat, but it held on to a lot of heat.

we ended up moving into the monkey hut, which was covered with a blaze orange truckers tarp that let much light through, but did NOT heat up like the silver tarp did, thus it was MUCH cooler.

with the thick silver tarp, you could sit inside the cave and place your hand within 3 inches of the tarp and feel the temperature difference as it stored heat.

maybe, create a barrier so that heat is not warming your shade, or allow enough clearance so that heat is not in your sitting space.
User avatar
epic_elite
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Postby gyre » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:25 pm

What energy isn't reflected is absorbed and then released.
Black is more efficient at releasing heat.

A second layer or more is ideal, preferably with venting between.

I used two layers of billboard over my tent with a small gap.
One isn't quite opaque.
Cool on the ground until noon.
Never opened a window.
Six to seven feet to the top layer.
User avatar
gyre
 
Posts: 15465
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Postby EmilyD » Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:14 pm

[quote="gyre"]Those are gray, not silver.
They are neutral in reflectivity, absorbing about 50%.
Opaque is key.
The good ones use a metal or black layer to block heat.
Shelter Systems claims to have the best cheap ones.
http://shelsys.com/

There was a camp last year with lots of reflective silver cover.
Very effective.
Anybody know the name of the camp?
They had a hamster wheel bike.[/quote]

I found this silver tarp at Harbor Freight. It appears to be about 1/2 the price for the size we need 19' or 20' square.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=37975
User avatar
EmilyD
 
Posts: 1168
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:03 pm
Location: SF Bay Area
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Art Car Camp

Postby trystanthegypsy » Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:33 pm

What you really want is treeplanting silvicool tarps- designed to keep seedlings cool before they are planted.

http://www.bushpro.ca/index.php?page_id=1004

This is what our dome cover is made of. VERY effective. also VERY expensive. :(

http://www.gear-up.com/category/455
User avatar
trystanthegypsy
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:01 pm
Location: the frozen North (edmonton, Canada)

Postby Ugly Dougly » Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:07 pm

Image
User avatar
Ugly Dougly
 
Posts: 16521
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:31 am
Location: San Jose, CA
Burning Since: 1996

Blue Tarps:

Postby Rommel » Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:27 pm

DO NOT BRING THEM! : )

They fall apart, moop your neighbors and create a
big pain in the backside for those cleaning up your
mess after the fact.

Thanks in advance.
Rommel

Autoritär für Gigsicherheit
'oderint dum metuant'
User avatar
Rommel
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:29 pm
Location: California, US

Postby gyre » Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:25 pm

EmilyD wrote:
I found this silver tarp at Harbor Freight. It appears to be about 1/2 the price for the size we need 19' or 20' square.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=37975

Compare the weight and opacity.
Tarps vary a lot.

Trystan, tell us about the silvicool.
I suspect it may be the same as the solid aluminet.
User avatar
gyre
 
Posts: 15465
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Postby Bob » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:43 pm

Those silver tarps are fine if you don't expect them to last more than one or two seasons.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
User avatar
Bob
 
Posts: 6762
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:00 am
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: Royaneh

Postby TomServo » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:57 pm

If you go with a tarp, reinforce each grommet with duct tape. A T-shape, bothsides on side grommets...an arrow shape on each corner grommet. Do this, at home...NOT on the playa. A couple weeks in advance...don't know why, just worked for me. Buy Home Depot ductape in the three pack. Don't buy cheap duct tape! Poke holes through the grommet opening, and your good.
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..
User avatar
TomServo
 
Posts: 6153
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:17 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: BloodBath&Beyond

Postby gerlachedNloaded » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:14 pm

http://www.horticulturesource.com/c-a-p ... bee7149173

cheap thick reflective tarp with grommets + adhesive backed nasa 3 layer IR barrier tent coverage shipped for 20.00 = happy camper :lol:
I am HORSE
User avatar
gerlachedNloaded
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:54 am
Location: 7:15 and I
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: ShadeWhores

Postby sambojones » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:21 am

gerlachedNloaded wrote:http://www.horticulturesource.com/c-a-p-custom-automated-products-foil-ducting-tape-2mil-x-50-yd-adhesive-backed-51002-p5036/?osCsid=3c50b57878993bc994342bbee7149173

cheap thick reflective tarp with grommets + adhesive backed nasa 3 layer IR barrier tent coverage shipped for 20.00 = happy camper :lol:


I think that link is just for a 2" wide tape for taping that heat block barrier thing for the actual barrier stuff its like $200 plus shipping for a 4' by 100' roll
sambojones
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:50 pm
Location: dallas, tx

Postby gerlachedNloaded » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:50 am

boo mudderphucker! yeah, dude sent me an email saying he had updated the description to add the 2" part because it was "misleading" without it.
SO, i'm goin with a big sportsman's space blanket (thick, shiny, opaque, grommeted, and CHEAP) from cabelas. and found a nifty coleman tent ceiling fan. couple that with the handycooler and hand mister and i should be fine.. maybe?
any reason i couldn't attach this to my tent the same way i would the rainfly? i know it will be lacking an air gap, but that' just too much shit to put in my checked bag :?
I am HORSE
User avatar
gerlachedNloaded
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:54 am
Location: 7:15 and I
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: ShadeWhores

Postby gerlachedNloaded » Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:07 pm

I am HORSE
User avatar
gerlachedNloaded
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:54 am
Location: 7:15 and I
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: ShadeWhores

Postby Homiesinheaven » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:31 pm

the porous netting is more expensive but better than tarp because it is cooler and provides less resistance to wind (safer). according to this site:

http://www.thenaturalhome.com/shadecloth.htm

"At less than 1/2 ounce per square foot, there is not enough thermal mass to store a large amount of radiant heat/energy. Heat is quickly dissipated by cooler air moving up through the open netting (even 90% density has ~1.5mm holes). A solid roof or waterproof canvas tarp would function differently, trapping heated air underneath. When dropping heat on your pergola or deck is key, our 80% and 90% black knits are the most commonly specified patio shade. "

does anyone know exactly what the material is that they use at Center Camp?
User avatar
Homiesinheaven
 
Posts: 444
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:22 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Burning Since: 2008

Postby motskyroonmatick » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:43 pm

I think they use shade cloth and geotextile fabric.

I have used 70% knit shade cloth for 4 years at burning man and it works great. I recommend grommets every 2 feet need them or not.

Aluminet is the best shade cloth but it is expensive and somewhat harder to get than regular agricultural shade cloth.
Black Rock City Welding and Repair. The Night Time Warming Station.

Card Carrying Member BRCCP.

When you pass the 4th "bridge out!" sign; the flaming death is all yours.-Knowmad-
User avatar
motskyroonmatick
 
Posts: 1735
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:37 am
Location: Aurora Oregon
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: B.R.C. Welding&Repair.

Postby gerlachedNloaded » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:41 am

I am HORSE
User avatar
gerlachedNloaded
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:54 am
Location: 7:15 and I
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: ShadeWhores

Postby Boijoy » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:03 pm

you can find aluminet cloth much cheaper @
www.greenhousemegastore.com && believe it or not
www.petedge.com as kennel shade. & the pet edge outlet is in Reno, so you locals can call them to set up an account & pick up your order to save shipping costs.
don't forget to floss
User avatar
Boijoy
 
Posts: 1445
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:51 pm
Location: Metro Mart. 4:30 Plaza
Burning Since: 2006
Camp Name: Metro Mart

Postby trystanthegypsy » Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:27 pm

gyre wrote:
EmilyD wrote:
I found this silver tarp at Harbor Freight. It appears to be about 1/2 the price for the size we need 19' or 20' square.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=37975

Compare the weight and opacity.
Tarps vary a lot.

Trystan, tell us about the silvicool.
I suspect it may be the same as the solid aluminet.


I don't think it is, the silvicool tarps are designed to be used in the field, so I think they are thicker. They are white on one side and silver on the other and fairly heavy. They do wear out after 2 or 3 seasons of TREE PLANTING use, which is very hard on any kind of equipment, but should last well if you are only using it during the burn. Check it every year, because they do get moopy eventually. They reflect light on the outside with the white, and the silver lining (heh heh) keeps the inside cool.
User avatar
trystanthegypsy
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:01 pm
Location: the frozen North (edmonton, Canada)

Postby gyre » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:09 pm

The make silvicool tarps too.
I don't know if they're different.

Wouldn't the silver work better on the outside?
User avatar
gyre
 
Posts: 15465
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Postby phil » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:33 pm

> Wouldn't the silver work better on the outside?

There are variables. Our peak-roof shade is 6 feet high at the eaves,then goes up over ten feet at the peak. It's a silver tarp, but the issue is that it's totally opaque to the sun - no visible light, no IR, no UV. If the tarp gets hot during the day, you can't tell it because it's so high up.

Our flat-roof shade uses a which rubberized piece of canvas that's maybe 6.5 feet, maybe 7, I've forgotten. You can reach up and touch it. It does not get hot to the touch. It, too, is totally opaque.

My goal is to have a tarp that is totally opaque and a shade that's open on at least two sides so we have full ventilation within the shaded area. Our side flaps are not opaque - you can see where they're in the sun and where they're shaded, but that seems to make no difference in the temperature within the shade structure.

We bought the tarps and flaps online and the pipes at home, and they were fairly cheap. The shade structures work well for us. Mileage varies.
User avatar
phil
 
Posts: 2975
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:10 pm
Location: Codgerville

Postby gyre » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:31 pm

Silvicool appears to be truly reflective, like solid aluminet.

As Phil no doubt knows, reflective surfaces are poor radiators of heat.


Most "silver" tarps are really gray, and white is a superior reflective surface than gray.
Opaque is definitely the most important attribute to have.

In theory, green should be the superior reflector of infrared, but it must be the right shade of green.
User avatar
gyre
 
Posts: 15465
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Postby C.f.M. » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:17 am

User avatar
C.f.M.
 
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:28 pm
Burning Since: 2009

Postby gyre » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:25 am

Looks like it would let a lot of light through.
User avatar
gyre
 
Posts: 15465
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Postby gerlachedNloaded » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:55 am

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1 ... ogId=10053

got this one myself. cheap enough.. tear resistant, 90% blockage, yet breathable. gonna add mass amounts of grommets to it (kit of 100 DIY @ harbor freight for 4.00). should work nicely. I HOPE
I am HORSE
User avatar
gerlachedNloaded
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:54 am
Location: 7:15 and I
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: ShadeWhores

Next

Return to Shelter & Camping

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests