HexaYurts

Ideas, advice, tips, and tricks regarding shelter, shade, tents, and camping. Yes, this includes RV's too.

Postby Elderberry » Thu May 14, 2009 4:08 pm

HeironymousJosch wrote:
jkisha wrote:Makes sense that the reflective surface would help keep the yurt cool; but I don't understand why in the world the company would have designed them to left exposed. Other than the hexayurt, when are they ever left exposed in construction?????
JK


I asked my local supplier the exact same question and he didn't have a very good answer. Beats me!


I did a quick Google search and found this article--there was a paragraph that caused me to believe that it wasn't important if the foil were covered, but it did need a bit of air-space in order to be effective. If I were in the construction business I think I'd call the manufacturer and ask directly; since I'm not, here's the link I found with the minimal info: http://www.ornl.gov/sci/roofs+walls/radiant/index.html

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Postby HeironymousJosch » Sat May 16, 2009 4:23 pm

jkisha wrote:
HeironymousJosch wrote:
jkisha wrote:Makes sense that the reflective surface would help keep the yurt cool; but I don't understand why in the world the company would have designed them to left exposed. Other than the hexayurt, when are they ever left exposed in construction?????
JK


I asked my local supplier the exact same question and he didn't have a very good answer. Beats me!


I did a quick Google search and found this article--there was a paragraph that caused me to believe that it wasn't important if the foil were covered, but it did need a bit of air-space in order to be effective. If I were in the construction business I think I'd call the manufacturer and ask directly; since I'm not, here's the link I found with the minimal info: http://www.ornl.gov/sci/roofs+walls/radiant/index.html

JK


That makes sense for it's typical application - under siding or roofing materials. As far as painting right over the panels goes, materials are heated by sunlight when they absorb infrared radiation. Shiny or bright materials reflect that IR away and thus absorb less of it. If you painted the foil on these sheets, the paint would invariably absorb more heat than the foil and that heat would be transferred to the foil and quite efficiently too as metals absorb heat rapidly That must be where the airspace comes in, preventing the transfer of heat between the outer layer and the foil. I will do a test tomorrow with a couple scraps of tuff-r I have as I'd love to paint my yurt too if the effect of the paint is negligible or marginal. I will paint stripes of different colors, using different types of paints (latex, acrylic), let them sit in the sun and take surface temperature measurements. I'll post my results.

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Postby HeironymousJosch » Sat May 16, 2009 4:42 pm

jkisha wrote:We're going for six foot walls, which is why we are adding the additional two feet at the bottom of the horizontal panels. This way we only need to cut three 4' x 8' pieces in half. No waste.

We toyed around with the idea of eight foot walls, but thought it would be too risky in case there were strong winds. There are others that have built yurts on the playa with eight foot walls though. The main ceiling in the center would be over 12 feet, and there are other logistical problems with getting the roof on eight foot walls too--especially if you have limited manpower and ladders.

I'm not sure which would be strongest--horizontal or vertical--or maybe even alternating them one wall horizontal and the next vertical--don't know. Maybe you can do the experimenting on this and report back.

JK


Having the extra two feet of height around the perimeter is going to be great and I think the proportions will be better than the 8' tall hexayurts. They look tall and clumsy. I'm building a standard yurt with a peaked entrance. It requires to extra sheets but it's going to give us a 6' entrance and 8' of height from the entrance to center of the structure.
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Postby HeironymousJosch » Sat May 16, 2009 4:43 pm

HeironymousJosch wrote:
jkisha wrote:We're going for six foot walls, which is why we are adding the additional two feet at the bottom of the horizontal panels. This way we only need to cut three 4' x 8' pieces in half. No waste.

We toyed around with the idea of eight foot walls, but thought it would be too risky in case there were strong winds. There are others that have built yurts on the playa with eight foot walls though. The main ceiling in the center would be over 12 feet, and there are other logistical problems with getting the roof on eight foot walls too--especially if you have limited manpower and ladders.

I'm not sure which would be strongest--horizontal or vertical--or maybe even alternating them one wall horizontal and the next vertical--don't know. Maybe you can do the experimenting on this and report back.

JK


Having the extra two feet of height around the perimeter is going to be great and I think the proportions will be better than the 8' tall hexayurts. They look tall and clumsy. I'm building a standard yurt with a peaked entrance. It requires two extra sheets but it's going to give us a 6' entrance and 8' of height from the entrance to center of the structure.
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Postby Elderberry » Sat May 16, 2009 10:58 pm

HeironymousJosch wrote:That makes sense for it's typical application - under siding or roofing materials. As far as painting right over the panels goes, materials are heated by sunlight when they absorb infrared radiation. Shiny or bright materials reflect that IR away and thus absorb less of it. If you painted the foil on these sheets, the paint would invariably absorb more heat than the foil and that heat would be transferred to the foil and quite efficiently too as metals absorb heat rapidly That must be where the airspace comes in, preventing the transfer of heat between the outer layer and the foil. I will do a test tomorrow with a couple scraps of tuff-r I have as I'd love to paint my yurt too if the effect of the paint is negligible or marginal. I will paint stripes of different colors, using different types of paints (latex, acrylic), let them sit in the sun and take surface temperature measurements. I'll post my results.

HJ


I'll be interested to see how your tests go, though I suspect you are right in your assumptions that paint (especially any darker color) will have a negative effect on the reflectivity and cooling properties.

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Postby HeironymousJosch » Sun May 17, 2009 1:28 am

jkisha wrote:I'll be interested to see how your tests go, though I suspect you are right in your assumptions that paint (especially any darker color) will have a negative effect on the reflectivity and cooling properties.

JK


It's supposed to be close to 90 and sunny here in Denver tomorrow, so it should make for a good test. It occurred to me that measuring the surface temperature of the foil isn't as relevant as the ambient temperature of the airspace inside of the yurt, I've worked out a simple way to test that too. I hoping the paint has little to no effect but we'll see.
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Q: About assembly and misters

Postby Etrit » Fri May 29, 2009 1:54 am

Hey so, this is my first time building a yurt and I figured I'd make a model first like the website said! :)

(Besides, it was FUN! :)

While making my model I came up with some ideas:

1) Assemble and tape the roof cone inside AND out (except for the gap) and sides--inside AND out (except 1 end) and then collapse both pieces, transport to BM, tape gap on roof cone, tape last end of walls and then tape the cone to the walls.
The 'fun' part about this is when you collapse the pieces you have to do it like a spring so you have to tape each section AFTER its folded.
Pics of my idea are here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13487253@N07/sets/72157618950550162

Has anyone tried this? If so, how hard was it to put together?

2) Using a Ultrasonic humidifier to cool the yurt (These are the kind that release a cool mist.... you need a gene for it) Has anyone tried using one of these?

~~thanks!

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Postby ConnieH » Fri May 29, 2009 7:25 am

Etrit - I had that same idea about taping alternate sides and folding, going to try it out tomorrow when we do our test build. I'll let you know how it works. The walls should be cake to do in one piece, but I think the roof would need to be two sections so you would end up with two triangles that you could fit together to form the 4x8 rectangle for transport.
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Postby Etrit » Fri May 29, 2009 8:14 am

ConnieH -

Cool! I'm glad I'm not the only crazy and lazy person on here :) (My goal is to do as little assembly and taping on the playa as possible! :)

I'm thinking you could even put the tape anchors on while your doing this thing at home but, I'm not sure how it would affect the folding.


As for breaking the roof into 2 pieces so you can make a 4x8 package, I see why you'd want to do that if you were tying it on top of a car... mines probably going to be in a moving truck though so I'm not worried about it.

Actually on the subject of anchors - How many do we really need? 4? or 6? Also does the tape really need to be solid going all the way across the roof cone or can we get away with just running tape like 4 feet up from the edge?
and also, do they need to be on the taped seams or could we put them on the structure material itself? (I'm guessing the tape since tape sticks to its self better then it does to anything else!)
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Postby SilverOrange » Fri May 29, 2009 10:12 am

Etrit wrote:Actually on the subject of anchors - How many do we really need? 4? or 6? Also does the tape really need to be solid going all the way across the roof cone or can we get away with just running tape like 4 feet up from the edge?
and also, do they need to be on the taped seams or could we put them on the structure material itself? (I'm guessing the tape since tape sticks to its self better then it does to anything else!)


Hey Etrit. I would recomend thoroughly taping all of the exterior seams. The wind can get vicious out there, and while it's been a while, it can rain. I think leaving part of your seams on the roof untaped, you're opening yourself up to trouble. If the wind can get hold of one of your panels, you will probably end up looking for pieces of your hexayurt across the playa. Better safe than sorry, and don't go sparingly on the anchors either for the same reasons.
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Postby Elderberry » Fri May 29, 2009 11:02 am

I did the cardboard model too. The reason it 'seems' to work with the model is you don't have to deal with the 1" depth of the boards.

We couldn't figure out any easy way to pre-tape the entire thing; but I'll be curious to hear how your trial run goes. :)

We did some pre-taping--walls in 3 sections of two each and roof in 6 sections of two each. That made it much easier to setup on the playa.

There is a video of a 'completely taped' pop-up version somewhere on one of Vinay's sites. I thought that the video was comical to watch--it didn't seem to work all that well, and I don't think he's ever gotten the kinks out of that model, though I could be wrong.

We used a gene to power an air conditioner. It was great.

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Postby Galaxo Magic » Sun May 31, 2009 2:09 am

Our camp had a hexiyurt and a monkeyhut and it was the bomb! Can't wait to be playabound
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Postby Elderberry » Sun May 31, 2009 9:04 am

So there were a few people doing tests--any results to post.

Also, regarding the tape going over the entire roof--that's a structural design feature that should not be compromised or changed.

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me too

Postby stack » Sun May 31, 2009 9:32 am

Ordered tape last night, already have the panels. Will be building a monkey hut as well with a 12v solar system to power lights and possibly a small swamp cooler as well. Stoked :D
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Postby dragonpilot » Sun May 31, 2009 11:38 pm

Where are you ordering the tape from...is it listed in one of the earlier posts? Missed it if so.
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Postby klondike_bar » Sun May 31, 2009 11:42 pm

so how does the whole cardboart-yurt thing hold up? in my area its hard to find the proper panels for less then 10-20$ each (urg), and im considering a cardboard yurt with a good coating of tapes and paint.
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tape vender

Postby stack » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:19 am

not sure where I got it from, either here, the hexayurt site or may be the tribe....here's a link:

http://www.findtape.com/shop/product.as ... height=799

I got 2 of the 6" and 3 of the 4". probably more than needed, but I can do a practice build that way.
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Postby Elderberry » Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:30 am

klondike_bar wrote:so how does the whole cardboart-yurt thing hold up? in my area its hard to find the proper panels for less then 10-20$ each (urg), and im considering a cardboard yurt with a good coating of tapes and paint.


I have no practical experience with cardboard, but I personally wouldn't risk it--first, it sometimes rains on the playa, and second it often is very windy. I wouldn't trust cardboard to hold up to either of those conditions very well.

The price for the building panels here in L.A. is about $17.00 a sheet, which is an ok price. If you think the panels are expensive, wait until you check out the cost of the tape.

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Postby ConnieH » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:11 am

We did our test build on Saturday, I'll get some pictures onto my flickr site tonight hopefully to share with you all. The build went well, except for that last piece of tape on the roof, that's a bugger, but we were also pretty well on our way to drunk by then, and it was getting dark, so that played a role ;) We'll use the squeegee on a stick method next time. One thing that did help with the roof, we used a 4 foot pole to hold up the center while we taped up the roof, that was handy.

In a previous post someone asked why the panels were designed to be weather resistant, I still don't know, but am sure glad they are - it's been raining on and off since we put up the yurt.

A note on tape - I elected to buy 3" tape for sealing all the edges, it worked ok but some of it doesn't want to stick so I'm having to retape portions. I think in the end I'll come out a little ahead money wise, but in hindsight springing for 6" tape for the entire structure probably would have been prudent.

When I take it down this week I'm going to experiment with folding techniques, I'll let you know how that goes. We ended up putting all the walls up with the taped edges on the inside since it's easier to get the right angle that way, we'll probably do the same and also tape the outside edges on the playa.

I had a little argument with my "engineer" about putting a pole through the center of the roof - I don't think that's a good idea. He, on the other hand, doesn't think we need windows because (he thinks) the door will be open all day. It has been really stuffy and muggy in there, but it's set up on my lawn, so I'm thinking it's containing the moisture from the lawn?? I think we need a couple windows for airflow, that we can cover with furnace filters, so that we can shut the door to keep dust out. The engineer is designing a swamp cooler for the yurt, and thinks we can use the door to exhaust the air, what do you all think about that plan? The door will be open sometimes, but if the swamp cooler is going I think I'd rather have the door shut and have some smaller windows near the roof/wall joint to exhaust the air.
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Postby klondike_bar » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:42 pm

jkisha wrote:
klondike_bar wrote:so how does the whole cardboart-yurt thing hold up? in my area its hard to find the proper panels for less then 10-20$ each (urg), and im considering a cardboard yurt with a good coating of tapes and paint.


I have no practical experience with cardboard, but I personally wouldn't risk it--first, it sometimes rains on the playa, and second it often is very windy. I wouldn't trust cardboard to hold up to either of those conditions very well.

The price for the building panels here in L.A. is about $17.00 a sheet, which is an ok price. If you think the panels are expensive, wait until you check out the cost of the tape.

JK


hopefully ill get my hands on some 4x4 or 4x6 cardboard and duct tape in the next week or two and construct a test unit (hence duct tape for the moment) to see what happens if it sits in my backyard for a week of wind/rain/sun, then work out any kinks before finding supplies for a final version
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Re: tape vender

Postby dragonpilot » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:56 pm

stack wrote:not sure where I got it from, either here, the hexayurt site or may be the tribe....here's a link:

http://www.findtape.com/shop/product.as ... height=799


OK...good website, but I'm overwhelmed with the selection of tapes. Which tape am I looking for?
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Re: tape vender

Postby dragonpilot » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:03 pm

dragonpilot wrote:
stack wrote:not sure where I got it from, either here, the hexayurt site or may be the tribe....here's a link:

http://www.findtape.com/shop/product.as ... height=799


OK...good website, but I'm overwhelmed with the selection of tapes. Which tape am I looking for?


Nevermind...I fingered it out...it's the bidirectional filament 3M 8959 that I want...
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Postby slvrnmph » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:09 pm

Has anyone on here built the folding hexayurt and has any tips?
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Panel question

Postby Sync » Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:21 am

So far the panels I can find have a kind of dullish alluminim looking finish on them. Some of the hexayurt pis I have seen have pannels that look almost mirror shiney. Which pannels are the really reflective ones? Thx.
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Postby Elderberry » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:48 pm

The dullish panels are probably the correct ones...they aren't mirror like. But even the dull ones appear really shinny in the bright sun.

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Postby Elderberry » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:03 pm

slvrnmph wrote:Has anyone on here built the folding hexayurt and has any tips?


Not that I know of. We never tried it because it didn't look like it worked all that well in the movies.

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can't find 1" thick boards in dfw area

Postby sambojones » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:35 pm

has anyone here been able to get away with using 3/4" boards? I've read through the thread and I've seen the 1/2" get shot down and after seeing/feeling it at home depot the 1/2" does seem pretty flimsy, but the 3/4" feels much much more rigid and sturdy. I know that the 1" is ideal but I can't seem to get any around the dfw area. I checked with lowes and home depot and they both told me the producer of the boards DOW industrial won't ship the 1" or thicker boards to our area for whatever reason:o. Any opinions or insights would be greatly appreciated. :D
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Postby sambojones » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:37 pm

forgot to add that I'd be building the 8 foot yurt with the 4 foot high walls and uses 12 boards total :D
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Folding Yurt and Tape

Postby Etrit » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:37 pm

SilverOrange - I do plan on taping all the seems on exterior as well as all of the interior. I'm hoping to do all the taping on both the roof cone and the side walls except for one seem in advance at home and then taping those 2 seems and the seam between the cone and the side walls at the burn.

Connie - Check out my flicker page for my idea on folding. The catch is that you have to leave a larger gap between each piece to allow it to fold... so it might decrease the strength a bit but.. I doubt its that big of a deal..
IF - You use the 6" tape!
3" tape wouldn't cut it, you have to put each piece flush w/o a gap if you use 3". But maybe you could make like 5" tape by using 2 pieces of tape running down each seem w/ a 1" overlap on the tape? I'm guessing the tape sticks to itself very well and won't come apart...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13487253@N07/3575697430/in/set-72157618950550162/

jkisha - I'm thinking that it would even work with the 1" boards if you leave enough of a gap between them. The best way to do this is by laying out the pieces how you want to fold them first.. then tape 1 side, flip and tape the other, then unfold and tape the rest of the seems.. You will probably end up with a 1/4" gap between each board piece but that still gives you 5.75" of tape sticking to the boards.

I really really want to do it this way because it will be easier to transport, easier to put up, easier to take down AND easier to put back up next time I use it! I'm going to be part of a big theme camp this year and the less complicated stuff we have to set up the better!

Sadly I probably wont be able to buy any supplies until the beginning of August! :( So I'm gonna have a very short trial period!
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Re: can't find 1" thick boards in dfw area

Postby Elderberry » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:56 pm

sambojones wrote:has anyone here been able to get away with using 3/4" boards? I've read through the thread and I've seen the 1/2" get shot down and after seeing/feeling it at home depot the 1/2" does seem pretty flimsy, but the 3/4" feels much much more rigid and sturdy. I know that the 1" is ideal but I can't seem to get any around the dfw area. I checked with lowes and home depot and they both told me the producer of the boards DOW industrial won't ship the 1" or thicker boards to our area for whatever reason:o. Any opinions or insights would be greatly appreciated. :D


So DFW area gets hotter than California??? I'm not sure they are DOW brand, but HD does carry the 1" x 4' x 8' panels here in Los Angeles--Our yurt is all wrapped up in the tarp and tied and packed behind a ton of other BM stuff or else I'd go down and check the exact mfg name on the panels, but we did get them at HD.

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