Keg vs Case

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Keg vs Case

Postby MOOP_Nazi » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:12 am

In an effort to minimize moop I did a search for threads on Kegs of Beer vs Cases of Beer. While I understand the tachnical difficulties of keeping a keg at least chilled for the burn, I was wondering if anybody has ever tried to order kegs from the Empire store pre-burn. I ask only because a keg has approximately 165 cans of beer or 6.5 cases worth. My brain kind of skips a cog when I think of the MOOP reduction possible if the Logistics can be worked out...
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby BBadger » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:34 am

Kegs need to be kept cold, like 38 F cold, and that requires ice and insulation. Well if you're handy you could create a keg cooler to keep it as cold as possible by using styrofoam or some other insulator to encapsulate the keg, along with some cooling packs. In a pinch, you could also use ice and salt to bring the keg to temperature, but that can be expensive in terms of ice bags and short longevity.

Is it really worth it? Maybe. However, MOOP is only MOOP if the trash ends up somewhere else other than the recycler. Most MOOP is about convenience, and you could put your efforts towards a can disposal station, comprising a simple can-crusher near the site of the beer, which drops the crushed can into a disposal chamber. That way people can gulp beer and crush the cans down in a consistent manner (not some half-crushed stupidity). Providing a drain for dumping half-finished beers also helps, so that they're not left on tables. The can crusher can be decorated, or it can be made into a fun "game" or piece of art that encourages people to want to use it.
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby Raymaker » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:11 am

BBadger wrote:…by using styrofoam…

isn't that banned?
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby SnowBlind » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:42 pm

We like to take 5 liter mini kegs. Not as much trash reduction as a real keg, but still a lot better than cans or bottles. You can use them with gravity drive, but then you need to finish them in one sitting (not a problem with a couple of people). They also have little taps for it, but they require CO2 cartridges, or constant pumping. With the cartridge you can use them over several days if you want. Some brands now come with a CO2 thing and a tap build in (Heineken, for one).

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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby Eric » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:10 pm

Fandango had kegs & built a cooler room to keep them in. The cooler room failed (I don't remember why) and we fought with foamy beer all week. Well, the other bar-tenders fought with it; I just served booze & left the beer bongs to them. Kegs are definitely a pain.

I think it'll be cans next year- easier to cool, not much of a problem to recycle.
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby mudpuppy000 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:53 pm

Yeah, I was at the black rock brewery and someone had dropped off a keg of some likely awesome homebrew but they didn't have any way to serve it. So sad. :( Makes the baby Jesus cry. I'll stick with bottles for my stuff and cans if I'm buying something.
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby junglesmacks » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:56 pm

Eric wrote:Fandango had kegs & built a cooler room to keep them in. The cooler room failed (I don't remember why) and we fought with foamy beer all week. Well, the other bar-tenders fought with it; I just served booze & left the beer bongs to them. Kegs are definitely a pain.

I think it'll be cans next year- easier to cool, not much of a problem to recycle.


I just had flashbacks of my first beer bong in 35 years of life being done at Fandango this year. I didn't quite get the whole spray after you finish rule.. until.. about 5 seconds too late.. and then it went all over one of your bartenders faces. I still got a high five for the FYD. They thought I was intentionally delaying, but I was just mentally computing the situation and about two steps behind at the moment.. lol
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby Lassen Forge » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:58 pm

There were 2 issues that dissuaded us at the Kantina - one was the whole cup thing (which we solve with a healthy BYO attitude or fuck you!), the other was keeing the keg cool/cold... while we would have saved on moop, the resulting water melt waste would negatively impact our exaporation plan. We did look into a kegerator (and now that we run power darn near 24/7 and can manage that effectively) a kegerator is a possibility.

The only other problem is pressurization of the keg - we did not want to use a hand pump due to beer degradation issues (ever had week old warm degredated flat PBR from a Keg? Yum!!) so we'd need a gas setup and enough gas to push at least 4 kegs (which is what we figured our average weekly outload would be), more likely 6-8 once we start jumping again... but again, it is a possibility, all we need is the materials. Plus we wouldn't have to worry about the case worth of "popped, sipped, and left" beer we had this year (WTF IS it with people??!!)... but what to dow ith the unpopped kegs we didn't drain? Hmmm...

Costwise, the keg is 1/2 thereabouts the cheapest we could do in cans,, so the savings isn't just moop, but money. Of course, our PBR tax (you likely remember fondly) makes cost a moot point, and we don't have to find someone to haul kegs...

With on site recycling until Friday IIRC, as long as the cans get crushed and taken over, there should be NO moop issues.
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby BBadger » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:58 pm

Raymaker wrote:
BBadger wrote:…by using styrofoam…

isn't that banned?


CFCs are banned, but styrofoam is now produced without CFCs. The goal would be, of course, to not just use the styrofoam and then trash it, but keep it in good condition for future use. This means reinforcing it with tape and maybe wood so that it doesn't break apart and can carry larger loads.
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby junglesmacks » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:12 pm

BBadger wrote:
Raymaker wrote:
BBadger wrote:…by using styrofoam…

isn't that banned?


CFCs are banned, but styrofoam is now produced without CFCs. The goal would be, of course, to not just use the styrofoam and then trash it, but keep it in good condition for future use. This means reinforcing it with tape and maybe wood so that it doesn't break apart and can carry larger loads.


Nono.. you're missing it. Styrofoam coolers are banned from BRC. Check the survival guide.


Ok.. not clear if they are a feather type banned or a glass type bottle type banned. Strictly vs frowned upon.
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby Packoderm » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:02 pm

We were thinking about bringing a few kegs and put them in barrels of ice wrapped with mucho insulation and pressurized by CO2. I mainly wanted us to be a big shots filling passers by with cups of beer from the tap. I priced the kegs at Bevmo, and the cans were hardly more expensive. A keg of PBR is $95 per 15.5 gallons which multiplied by 128 fl oz. divided by 12 oz. per can gives you 165.34 cans worth of beer. $95 divided by 166 is $0.57 per can. I can get PBR in cans at SaveMart for less than that. Heck, I can get Coors in the 30 pack cheaper than that. And we'd still have to pay for the CO2 pump. Maybe next year we'll get the kegs whether or not we save money.
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby junglesmacks » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:24 pm

Packoderm wrote:We were thinking about bringing a few kegs and put them in barrels of ice wrapped with mucho insulation and pressurized by CO2. I mainly wanted us to be a big shots filling passers by with cups of beer from the tap. I priced the kegs at Bevmo, and the cans were hardly more expensive. A keg of PBR is $95 per 15.5 gallons which multiplied by 128 fl oz. divided by 12 oz. per can gives you 165.34 cans worth of beer. $95 divided by 166 is $0.57 per can. I can get PBR in cans at SaveMart for less than that. Heck, I can get Coors in the 30 pack cheaper than that. And we'd still have to pay for the CO2 pump. Maybe next year we'll get the kegs whether or not we save money.



FWIW, one the the coolest gifts I got from 2010 was a BM imprinted neoprene can koozy wrapped around a nice, cold can of PBR on a hot Thursday. I kept that thing and used it almost daily until it literally fell apart sometime this last June.

:idea:
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby arcane » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:49 pm

Eric wrote:Fandango had kegs & built a cooler room to keep them in. The cooler room failed (I don't remember why) and we fought with foamy beer all week. Well, the other bar-tenders fought with it; I just served booze & left the beer bongs to them. Kegs are definitely a pain.

I think it'll be cans next year- easier to cool, not much of a problem to recycle.


Actually the beer bongs weren't to much of a pain in the ass. The foam settled pretty quick. After handing out about 100 in the first few days I kind of got the hang of it. Now a strait pour into a cup...another story entirely. I was thinking of building up a single keg cooler for next year. We'll see, the can idea does sound pretty tempting. Two years in a row the kegs have blown foam.
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby goathead » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:59 pm

Kegs
Home Bew

We serves over 500 gallons

:twisted:

But then we have been doing it a long time also.

:lol:
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby MOOP_Nazi » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:12 am

So very awesome!

I consider myself fortunate to get this kind of info and response from people. I like the fact that there are good pieces of advice for both kegs and good disposal/recycling cans.

Thank you for the responses!

This is just great!
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:13 am

MOOP_Nazi wrote:I like the fact that there are good pieces of advice for both kegs and good disposal/recycling cans.

I like that you like it. So much of the advice on this board is offered as set in stone.
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby jkisha » Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:23 am

It more or less is set in stone. (At least until the next chiseler comes along.)

theCryptofishist wrote:
MOOP_Nazi wrote:I like the fact that there are good pieces of advice for both kegs and good disposal/recycling cans.

I like that you like it. So much of the advice on this board is offered as set in stone.
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby trilobyte » Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:33 am

I like that most of the problems/challenges are things with multiple good solutions. Even if the thread title is a question you've seen posed before, there's a reasonably good chance that you may find some new and useful info in reading it. :)
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby mudpuppy000 » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:31 pm

goathead wrote:Kegs
Home Bew

We serves over 500 gallons

:twisted:

But then we have been doing it a long time also.

:lol:


Are you at the homebrew camp? I saw it on the guide but never made it over there, among thousands of other places. :)
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby A Jester » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:22 pm

I have seen good results with a jockey box used on playa.
http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Joc ... tapcooler/
Cheaper than a kegerator, and not as ice intensive as keeping the whole keg chilled.

The install I saw also had a towel draped over the keg that they would occasionally pour water over for ghetto evap cooling.

The CO2 tank is a must, if you're going to bother with a keg.

I also agree that Kegs of cheap beer aren't that much (if at all) cheaper. But you can get good beer that's not only cheaper than in the store, it's also not in bottles.

We usually drop our aluminium off at recycle camp, so it's only the glass that is an issue for us.
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby BBadger » Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:34 pm

junglesmacks wrote:Nono.. you're missing it. Styrofoam coolers are banned from BRC. Check the survival guide.

Ok.. not clear if they are a feather type banned or a glass type bottle type banned. Strictly vs frowned upon.


Ah you're right, but I'm pretty sure it's because people would bring them as-is, and they'd get kicked or smashed, and break apart into the wind, or be left unweighted and fly away. I'm thinking the styrofoam would be taped up and maybe sprayed down so that even if it were damaged, it wouldn't leak like a ripped bean bag chair (the ultimate of MOOP). Also the styrofoam would be affixed to a interior of a container box or to the keg itself for repeated use. For plain coolers I'm considering using styrofoam in that same manner, as an outer liner, and well-reinforced in wood, and completely taped so it doesn't expose any styrofoam to the environment. It may not be worth the cost compared to an insulated cooler though.

A Jester wrote:The install I saw also had a towel draped over the keg that they would occasionally pour water over for ghetto evap cooling.


Yeah, a zeer-pot type of refrigerator could be used. The playa is the perfect environment for one. It can supposedly keep things cool down to even keg temps, and is a good way to use non-potable water.
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby A Jester » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:48 pm

If my camp didn't run a genny for our food, and if Ice wasn't so easy to get, I'd be stoked to have to use a zeer-pot.
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby illy dilly » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:21 pm

arcane wrote:Actually the beer bongs weren't to much of a pain in the ass. The foam settled pretty quick. After handing out about 100 in the first few days I kind of got the hang of it. Now a strait pour into a cup...another story entirely. I was thinking of building up a single keg cooler for next year. We'll see, the can idea does sound pretty tempting. Two years in a row the kegs have blown foam.

The trick we always use for beer bongs is a shot of PAM or any other cooking spray.
Quick shot right on the inside of the funnel, close to where it starts into the hole into tube, but not straight down into the hole.
As long as it is "original" or "butter" flavor doesn't mess things up. If for some reason you only have one of the flavored variety (garlic, olive oil, etc...) your in trouble!

We've also bin in a pinch and used butter. Sacrifice a little to a dish, get just a bit on the tip of one finger, and wipe it inside the funnel. You shouldn't be able to see the butter, except for a bit of shine where you wiped.
Though, this wouldn't work for 'public' bars at Bman, with all the health code violations that its possibly causing.

On topic,
In our camp (only 15 people remember, doesn't even compare to a bar camp like Kantina or Fandango) we go with cans and bottles just so that we have a different variety of beer. We brought about 14 cases (I'm counting 24 and/or 30 as a case) and about 5 twelve packs. For us, 1 keg of the same beer wouldln't really work just because it doesn't offer variety. But this is personal beer, not bar beer, so it isn't all PBR.
As for glass bottles I had a stroke of genius one night! The chlorine my dad uses for his pool comes in a 5 gallon bucket, with a locking lid. So we cut a flap in the lid, just big enough for a sledge hammer handle. We put the glass in, slide the handle of the sledge through the whole, then close and lock the lid... AND SMASH AWAY!!!
We were able to fit about 4 cases of Corona, and close to 4 cases of Woodchuck bottles in 1 five gallon bucket.
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby Fiver » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:28 pm

Buy propane refrigerator or freezer large enough to fit keg or kegs.
Buy Keg tap conversion kit for fridge.
Enjoy cold beer on Playa, no ice needed. Bring lots of propane.

Crazy expensive. It's easier to just buy racks and racks of 30 packs and be anal about the cans. Our camp of 10 people killed 210 beers in 7 days, and every single empty went to the recycle center next to center camp.
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby NessaZee » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:28 am

illy dilly wrote:<snip>

On topic,
In our camp (only 15 people remember, doesn't even compare to a bar camp like Kantina or Fandango) we go with cans and bottles just so that we have a different variety of beer. We brought about 14 cases (I'm counting 24 and/or 30 as a case) and about 5 twelve packs. For us, 1 keg of the same beer wouldln't really work just because it doesn't offer variety. But this is personal beer, not bar beer, so it isn't all PBR.
As for glass bottles I had a stroke of genius one night! The chlorine my dad uses for his pool comes in a 5 gallon bucket, with a locking lid. So we cut a flap in the lid, just big enough for a sledge hammer handle. We put the glass in, slide the handle of the sledge through the whole, then close and lock the lid... AND SMASH AWAY!!!
We were able to fit about 4 cases of Corona, and close to 4 cases of Woodchuck bottles in 1 five gallon bucket.


how fantastic!! and FUN too 8)
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby whisker_biscuit » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:35 pm

goathead wrote:Kegs
Home Bew

We serves over 500 gallons

:twisted:

But then we have been doing it a long time also.

:lol:



i am planning to take homebrew kegs this year. what is the best way, from experience, to reduce the amount of foam in the beer?
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby knowmad » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:52 pm

whisker_biscuit wrote:
goathead wrote:Kegs
Home Bew

We serves over 500 gallons

:twisted:

But then we have been doing it a long time also.

:lol:



i am planning to take homebrew kegs this year. what is the best way, from experience, to reduce the amount of foam in the beer?

Hi Whisker biscuit.
Great first post question.
What I found is the length of ones cooling coil in the jockey box is important. a hundred feet is a good length. the colder your keg or korny keg is the better. if that includes Ice be prepared to use plenty of ice.
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby mudpuppy000 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:48 pm

knowmad wrote:
whisker_biscuit wrote:
goathead wrote:Kegs
Home Bew

We serves over 500 gallons

:twisted:

But then we have been doing it a long time also.

:lol:



i am planning to take homebrew kegs this year. what is the best way, from experience, to reduce the amount of foam in the beer?

Hi Whisker biscuit.
Great first post question.
What I found is the length of ones cooling coil in the jockey box is important. a hundred feet is a good length. the colder your keg or korny keg is the better. if that includes Ice be prepared to use plenty of ice.


Yeah, definitely a jockey box. You can hook up unchilled kegs to it and get great beer just about instantly. The one I have has 120 foot coils which works great, but it does leave quite a bit of beer in the coils if you don't finish the keg off. I could see how you would want a smaller coil if you're going to be swapping kegs back and forth.
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby MacGlenver » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:57 pm

I like going home with less volume of stuff than I came with, so we go with cans and make a couple trips to the recycling camps. Even if we didnt recycle on-playa we'd have far less volume when hauling out crushed cans. Breakdown is hard enough without having to fit things in around big kegs. Also, we're a pretty small camp that all fly into SFO, so kegs would be particularly hard and we wouldnt have the infrastructure to keep them cold.
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Re: Keg vs Case

Postby Ugly Dougly » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:10 pm

OT: Just noticed that Sierra Nevada comes in CANS now. Yee-ha!
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