ice is water

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ice is water

Postby meeotch » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:13 am

So for reasons I won't get into, we won't have the time/resources to freeze a bunch of bottled water this year to use as ice blocks in our coolers. (Ice melting in a plastic bottle => drinkable water.) I was thinking an alternate plan would be to stick our storebought ice into giant ziploc bags. There seem to be several options: http://www.ziploc.com/Products/Pages/BigBags.aspx But at a certain point, the price of the bag starts to make the whole idea moot.

So two questions:
1) is there such a thing as a "standard" size for a 10lb block of ice? I'm seeing 6x6x10 at some places online.
2) has anyone done this, and is able to recommend a specific bag?

We could go with all cube ice, which would solve the bag-size question - but this seems like a bad idea from a longevity standpoint.
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Re: ice is water

Postby lemur » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:42 am

i wouldnt plan to use ice as my water source in any way.. even if it is 'safe' and clean 'untouched by human hands' ice blocks.. even in a cooler alone without any food..

bring all the water youll need... avoid relying on single serv plastic bottles of water, get larger volumes (like those 2.5 gallon suitcases of water.. or bigger)

if you want to keep stuff cold you can buy 10pound blocks of ice at the burn for $3 7pound bags crushed for $3..

bring a cup...

keep the ice from getting contaminated....

put ice + water in cup = enjoy cold water



as an aside, related to cold water....

it might not seem as good but youll want your water to be at at least 50F to make getting hydrated the easiest... it is easier to drink a lot of cool/warm water than it is to drink really cold water.. no matter how refreshing it might seem you could easily end up less hydrated... ..use icecold water as a 'treat' not your only source of water
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Re: ice is water

Postby dragonpilot » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:53 am

Lemur's right...use the melt water in your cooler for drinking as a last resort. It is very difficult to keep it from becoming contaminated.

That said, when I buy my ice at Arctica, I usually get one block and one crushed. When I get back to camp, I'll open the crushed and very carefully put as much as will fit into my CamelBak bladder then slide the bladder into the CamelBak insulated sleeve integral to the backpack. Add electrolyte...which may stain the bladder, but won't affect the taste if you use the bladder for plain water later. I find it easier to sip cool rather than warm water/electrolyte. YMMV.
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Re: ice is water

Postby lemur » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:56 am

yep warm water elecrolyte mix tends to taste real yuckie


but yeah its good for ya!
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Re: ice is water

Postby graidawg » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:09 am

Thanks Dragon pilot, i was wondering if that would work, having just bought a camel back and thought it would be a great way to keep it cool. plus i was thiniking they would hold a fair aomunt of booze in the rucksack part - coz i am english and we live on beer
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Re: ice is water

Postby meeotch » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:10 am

Thanks for the replies. I probably should have been more detailed in my explanation: We're definitely not relying on melted ice for drinking - we'll have the requisite suitcases of H20. It's more about not wasting the water produced, and having to dispose of or evaporate it. Also, it's about not wasting the "cold" (I know, no such thing). Cooling hot water with ice to drink is less efficient than drinking already cold water that you were just going to throw away. And if you want to get really fancy, you can re-freeze captured melt water by putting it back into a cooler that has dry ice in it. Plus, trapping the melt water just makes it easier to keep the coolers clean, cause you're not washing all the dust off your hands into them when you reach in to manipulate ice blocks.

But this is all stuff that's covered elsewhere - I won't go on and on about it and derail my own thread. To restate the question: we're trying to avoid having waste melt water, and can't use the ubiquitous plastic bottle method. Does anyone have experience with capturing melt in ziploc bags?

p.s. - We're doing our best to *not* buy ice this year until the last possible moment. (The full deal, with "Xtreme" coolers, reflectix, dry ice, staging from one cooler to the next, etc.) Nobody wants to be the one to have to drag a wagon across the playa and back & wait in line in the broiling sun. Particularly when you're providing ice for half a dozen or a dozen people.
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Re: ice is water

Postby The CO » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:20 am

One of the things OregonRed and I stress to everyone we know is proper cooler discipline.

Not to go commercial, but I must for a second: use Ziplock brand bags, the type with the regular old seal, not the ones with the plastic zipper tab. Double bag everything that goes in your cooler, and make sure both bags are sealed every time. Double bag everything that goes in your cooler, and make sure both bags are sealed every time. It's that important.

If you and everyone using your cooler does this, you can avoid contamination of your melted ice water. We use it for dishes, showers & swamp cooler, not drinking water. It has worked wonderfully for many years, but it hinges on a) top quality baggies, and b) everyone doing it right every time. You can also buy a few of the giant bags and put your ice in that to create a third barrier.
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Re: ice is water

Postby lemur » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:29 am

small camps are allowed to dump small amounts of melted clean uncontaminated water on the playa for dust abatement purposes..

there, the water...it is no longer wasted!


dust abatement is important...

but this 'using ice to cool warm water is inefficient' stuff is a bit much.......

dump that shit out
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Re: ice is water

Postby meeotch » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:43 am

lemur - I appreciate your opinion, honestly. I also know about allowed sprinkling. But I maintain that this is pretty standard stuff - we've been doing the bottled water trick since like 1995. This year, our camp will be somewhere between fifteen and twenty people, with a dozen or more coolers. If you would, do me a solid, and just trust me that we're generating a lot of melt water (100+ gal, if my math is correct), and that conserving it is something that's not unreasonable to do.

CO - thanks. I think the ice-bagging (as distinct from food-bagging) will be key, as we want to do this in our ice-only coolers as well as our food/drinks coolers. I know we can just guesstimate on bag size & wing it, but was hoping someone had math on 10lb blocks & the appropriate bags.

As context, I should also mention that we're all flying in from NYC, and only have about two days prep time for our shade, supplies, power/music, etc.. This means a lot of stuff bought online sight unseen to keep costs and experimentation time down. Like coolers and ice bags, for instance. If I still lived on the west coast, I'd just drive out to walmart, look at the bags, and try a bunch of stuff.
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Re: ice is water

Postby oneeyeddick » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:56 am

so use it for shower water, this ain't hard to figure out!
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Re: ice is water

Postby Foxfur » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:57 am

I plan on using ice melt when the shower water tank in the trailer runs dry. I'll be needing quite a few cold showers out there.
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Re: ice is water

Postby lemur » Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:31 pm

Foxfur wrote: I'll be needing quite a few cold showers out there.


just how horny are you?
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Re: ice is water

Postby FIGJAM » Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:51 pm

If a gallon of water wieghs 8 pounds, then a 10 pound block should fit easily in a 1 1/2 gallon zip lock bag. 8)
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Re: ice is water

Postby meeotch » Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:16 pm

figjam - that's a good way of thinking about it. Though I'm not sure it's that easy, since the bag is essentially two-dimensional and the dimensions of the block are rigid (and unknown, currently). You're losing a lot of space in there - if you've ever tried to shove a loaf of bread into a ziploc, you know what I mean.

ziploc doesn't have the dimensions on their site, bug some googling suggests a 2-gal bag is 13"x15". If a block is 6"x6"x10", that's 6"x4 = 24 linear inches around the short way. If the bag is 13", and possibly minus an inch for the zipper, then we're cutting it too close to be sure. (And how much width do you lose when filling the bag like that?) The next size up is 3gal, which might be 15"x15", and are 3x as expensive and hard to find in stores.

I guess I could go buy a block of ice, and staple it into a large sheet of paper to try and figure this out. But someone told me that the internet had all the answers. ;-)
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Re: ice is water

Postby Foxfur » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:06 pm

lemur wrote:
Foxfur wrote: I'll be needing quite a few cold showers out there.


just how horny are you?

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Re: ice is water

Postby oneeyeddick » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:09 pm

You know Figjam if you just go to wherever and buy these you wouldn't hafta get all mathy on us like that.

http://www.nextag.com/hefty-2__5-gallon-bag/shop-html
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Re: ice is water

Postby swampdog » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:51 pm

I don't get why you wouldn't want to drink meltwater out of a clean ziplock bag.

Ziploc brand 'Big Bag' size L (listed at 3 Gal) measures 15" square with a 7" "gusset" at the bottom. Size XL (listed at 10 Gal) measures out to 21x24, again with a 7" "gusset"

ETA: I ordered them from Amazon. I do the 'prime shipping' thing where they send everything 2 day for 1 annual fee. Amazon loses money on that deal with me.
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Re: ice is water

Postby capjbadger » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:28 pm

Foxfur wrote:
lemur wrote:
Foxfur wrote: I'll be needing quite a few cold showers out there.


just how horny are you?

You'd be surprised...

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Re: ice is water

Postby FIGJAM » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:35 pm

oneeyeddick wrote:You know Figjam if you just go to wherever and buy these you wouldn't hafta get all mathy on us like that.

http://www.nextag.com/hefty-2__5-gallon-bag/shop-html


Fuck that.

My ice is all in milk jugs.

If I were doing ice blocks, I'd look for a small plastic bucket with a lid, that would fit in my cooler and put my blocks in that. 8)
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Re: ice is water

Postby meeotch » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:54 pm

Swampdog - that's interesting, I didn't see the gusset spec when I googled. 3 gal sounds like a winner (at $1.20 a bag, it better be)... if the neck of the bag isn't too tight, that is. Probably have to put the block in lengthwise, then turn it. I can't believe it's so difficult just to get measurements on these things.

Figjam - exactly. I wish we had the time & freezer space for gallon jugs.
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Re: ice is water

Postby FIGJAM » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:58 pm

Try finding a tupperware type container with the right dimentions.
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Re: ice is water

Postby Dr Jet Sinister » Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:07 pm

We always put our ice into ziplocs, usually the huge ones with the cut out handle on the top. Mostly because ziplocs DO leak and the larger bag allows room to keep the leaky top part of the bag well above the level of ice melt. The big ones work well with crushed ice and blocks and are really easy to empty into a shower bag or whatever.
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Re: ice is water

Postby Foxfur » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:49 pm

Foxfur wrote:
lemur wrote:
Foxfur wrote: I'll be needing quite a few cold showers out there.


just how horny are you?

You'd be surprised...

capjbadger wrote:Image

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That made me laugh very, very loud!
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Re: ice is water

Postby Ugly Dougly » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:21 am

It would be the extra effort to avoid relying on countless plastic water bottles.
Potential moop and extra recyclables to haul back anyway.
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