Gifting food/drink - NV health permit required? Seriously?!

What do you eat and drink on the playa? Share ideas, recipes and advice here.

Postby lemur » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:16 am

the relevant stuff related to the 'temporary food establishment' can be seen here: http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nac/NAC-446. ... C446Sec630

as someone just organizing meals for camp mates and not the general public I still had a look over all of the NAC Chapter 446.. as well as the 'self inspection' pdf here: http://health.nv.gov/BFHS_EHS_TempEventInfo.htm

as everyone else has said.. food safety is important. the last thing i want to be responsible for is getting someone (or lots of someones) sick because of something simple I or the other kitchen workers could have avoided.

I think permit process does and will help keep people safe.... there are on playa inspections by the health dept to help it along. and hopefully the camps who arent required to get a permit for feeding their own camp still practice all of the stuff the health code suggests doing anyways.
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Postby Token » Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:19 am

You guys crack me up.

All the state wants is for folks to wash their hands.

If you can't figure out how to set up a water suitcase and a bucket on the edge of the table and provide some soap and paper towels ...

This is fucking hilarious.
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Postby Zhust » Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:57 am

Token wrote:All the state wants is for folks to wash their hands.


They also want $50.

I was thinking how I'd feel happier about the world if you could buy "food safety certifications" rather than "food safety permits". In that system, anyone could sell or give away food, but you'd need to pay for a certification of your safety standards. As a customer, we should always be aware of how our food is prepared. If a certificate makes you happy, eat at places with a certificate. If you build a relationship with the people feeding you, and you think they do a good job, maybe you don't care about a certificate.

Most places would get certificates; some would not; consumers are empowered; ignorant people get hurt. Everybody wins.
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Postby domitron » Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:41 am

These are all good points, guys. I think the way I was thinking of this has broadened a little. Going back and reading my first post I was filled with indignation about the whole permit thing. Now I've thought about it in different ways and how it is like or not other situations, I still think the permit thing is far too broad of stroke for this situation but don't feel quite as angry about it.

At any rate, the notion that my ass would be in a sling as a result of this type of infraction even if no one were to get sick, is absolute nonsense. Hell you got 50,000 people in the desert and half of them are breaking federal and state laws by taking schedule 1 substances--I smell MJ everywhere--yet there are what a dozen drug arrests out of 25,000 people that stick in court. The only missing food permit that is going to get one in some serious trouble is if you are the poor bloke who happens to be the example, the person who burns to make everyone else scared enough to get those permits next year. Fear is the best motivator and mechanism of control known to man.

Having said that if I were to serve food on any scale, I'd get the damned permit. It's annoying, but it ain't hard to do so no biggie. As for giving out cookies or something like that, I wouldn't bother.
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Postby Elderberry » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:02 am

domitron wrote:Within my own camp and in our chill zone one night, I will be serving Kratom Odula Superfood juice, and I will not be getting a permit to do so.


You don't need a permit to serve food within your camp. It's only when your camp serves food publicly to the entire event.

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Postby MistressSybs » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:10 am

So if I'm making burgers and have two extra, I can share those with my neighboring camp mates right? It would be more if I started cooking multiple burgers for people coming into our camp for said burgers? Or should I rather store them and not gift them to some hungry burner to avoid trouble?
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Postby geekster » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:22 am

No, you wouldn't need a permit for that. If your camp feeds people as part of its "thing", you need a permit. If you have a central kitchen that cooks for more than 30 people regularly, you need a permit.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:59 am

There are onsite inspections.
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Postby domitron » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:21 am

theCryptofishist wrote:There are onsite inspections.


Oh, really? I thought you just get the permit, show it to them, and everything was fine. There are inspections too then? That might make the whole permit thing more sensible. Where did you hear about that?
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Postby gaminwench » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:24 am

^^^ Seen it...
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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:35 am

domitron wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:There are onsite inspections.


Oh, really? I thought you just get the permit, show it to them, and everything was fine. There are inspections too then? That might make the whole permit thing more sensible. Where did you hear about that?

In 08 or 09 Major Mallet, a village member, got a permit for his snowcone machine. He's not the only person who's gone through it that I know, but he's the one I'm most certain of. I think Chai Guy does it, too.
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Postby MistressSybs » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:40 am

geekster wrote:No, you wouldn't need a permit for that. If your camp feeds people as part of its "thing", you need a permit. If you have a central kitchen that cooks for more than 30 people regularly, you need a permit.


Cool - I don't want to be all burnerly and gift something that I'm going to have to pay a fine for. =)
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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:50 am

MistressSybs wrote:
geekster wrote:No, you wouldn't need a permit for that. If your camp feeds people as part of its "thing", you need a permit. If you have a central kitchen that cooks for more than 30 people regularly, you need a permit.


Cool - I don't want to be all burnerly and gift something that I'm going to have to pay a fine for. =)

Or to inadvertently "gift" a parasitic organism.
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Postby MistressSybs » Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:00 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
MistressSybs wrote:
geekster wrote:No, you wouldn't need a permit for that. If your camp feeds people as part of its "thing", you need a permit. If you have a central kitchen that cooks for more than 30 people regularly, you need a permit.


Cool - I don't want to be all burnerly and gift something that I'm going to have to pay a fine for. =)

Or to inadvertently "gift" a parasitic organism.


LOLz Well there is that... but if my gift fills the parasite maybe that would leave things open for another burner to gift a non-parasitic organism? =)
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Postby capjbadger » Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:33 pm

domitron wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:There are onsite inspections.


Oh, really? I thought you just get the permit, show it to them, and everything was fine. There are inspections too then? That might make the whole permit thing more sensible. Where did you hear about that?

Yep, the health inspector is out there doing their job.

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Postby domitron » Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:40 pm

capjbadger wrote:
domitron wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:There are onsite inspections.


Oh, really? I thought you just get the permit, show it to them, and everything was fine. There are inspections too then? That might make the whole permit thing more sensible. Where did you hear about that?

Yep, the health inspector is out there doing their job.

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Yeah if it's a guy, I wonder if he is inspecting the healthiness of the food prep or more the health of the fine burner cuties. Probably a little of both.
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Postby Token » Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:48 pm

Next year they are going to require a permit for giving head.

$35 with on playa inspection.

Canadian Beaver Eating Contest has a bulk event permit so sign up early.
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Postby capjbadger » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:46 pm

domitron wrote:
capjbadger wrote:
domitron wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:There are onsite inspections.


Oh, really? I thought you just get the permit, show it to them, and everything was fine. There are inspections too then? That might make the whole permit thing more sensible. Where did you hear about that?

Yep, the health inspector is out there doing their job.

-Badger



Yeah if it's a guy, I wonder if he is inspecting the healthiness of the food prep or more the health of the fine burner cuties. Probably a little of both.

Nothing wrong with that. ;)

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Postby marcgorcey » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:52 pm

[quote]
You don't need a permit to serve food within your camp. It's only when your camp serves food publicly to the entire event.

JK [/quote]

This is incorrect. You need a permit even if you only serve food to your own camp, if you camp is 30 or more.
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Postby oneeyeddick » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:47 pm

I know you don't need a permit if your bar is just serving drinks, but what if I am stirring them with my dick?

The same question goes for the drink after a "ballcuzzi" has occurred in it.
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Postby EspressoDude » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:57 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:There are onsite inspections.


Espresso Camp was inspected...Once by a 'uniformed agent"; also by what were likely undercover folks that asked the questions real inspectors asked
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Postby Elderberry » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:58 pm

marcgorcey wrote:

You don't need a permit to serve food within your camp. It's only when your camp serves food publicly to the entire event.

JK


This is incorrect. You need a permit even if you only serve food to your own camp, if you camp is 30 or more.


I stand corrected. Here's the actual documentation. http://health.nv.gov/PDFs/BFHS/TempFood ... elines.pdf

... more than 30 people every meal consistently...

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Postby ju1ce » Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:41 am

oneeyeddick wrote:I know you don't need a permit if your bar is just serving drinks, but what if I am stirring them with my dick?

The same question goes for the drink after a "ballcuzzi" has occurred in it.


Win!

I'm pretty sure my 'tea bags' are in violation of Nevada health code.
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Postby portaplaya » Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:30 pm

The original poster's premise that he does not need a permit for a 4th of July party is also incorrect. Technically he should be getting a banquet permit, especially if serving alcohol.

Fortunately, health departments don't generally bother to crack down on tailgate parties (that I'm aware of), lemonade stands, and car dealer promotional BBQ. (Each of these also has specific news articles where the health department HAS cracked down, btw.)

But they do patrol the playa because of the large quantities of food being prepared for strangers.

Hey, they aren't saying that you have to install a restaurant-grade sanitizing kitchen. If you can demonstrate to them that you know how to wash and sanitize the serving dishes and cookware, you absolutely should not be serving food on the playa.

Sorry that it is too inconvenient to schedule an inspection to get your permit; I know that it's tough to be generous to others when you are lazy.
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correction

Postby madmatt » Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:37 pm

Just FYI - you DO NOT need a permit to serve drinks, unless they are fresh squeezed juices. If you're just doing a bar, you DON'T need a permit.

You DON'T need a permit if you are making food and just serving it to your "friends." Only if you are serving it the "public."

So if you want to make a formal food thing, and put it in the BM events listings etc, then, just jump through the hoops and get a permit.

Or just serve food informally to your "friends."
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Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:19 pm

You don't want to be in teh position of washing glasses for reuse.
Bring your own cup.
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Postby portaplaya » Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:36 pm

Wow, the Nevada Health Department even has specific pages on their website about giving away food/drink at Burning Man:

(look for flame logos on main page): http://health.nv.gov/BFHS_EHS.htm
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Postby Eric » Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:54 pm

portaplaya wrote:Wow, the Nevada Health Department even has specific pages on their website about giving away food/drink at Burning Man:

(look for flame logos on main page): http://health.nv.gov/BFHS_EHS.htm


and they actually have reasonable suggestions. Go figure- it's like they've been there before.....
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Re: Gifting food/drink - NV health permit required? Seriousl

Postby 1durphul » Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:55 pm

domitron wrote:I just read in the survival guide that to gift other people food or drink, one needs a Nevada health permit in order for such an act of selflessness to be legal?


Nevada has required this for many years actually.

My first year was 2004 and I went with a camp that served beverages. We had a health permit, and sure enough, the real official health inspectors came. We did great on the inspection and they actually gifted us supplies for the few shortcomings we had. (We didn't have test strips for the bleach cleaning water.)

What it comes down to is that nobody wants to have food poisoning out there, and none of us know every person we accept food/drinks from personally. We have no idea if they are the sort that washes their hands after taking a crap. We have no idea if they sneeze into their food when they cook. We just don't know. Have you ever asked to see the hand washing station at a Black Rock City food camp? I haven't.

And that is what the health inspectors are there for. If somebody is doing something dangerous they will shut them down, hopefully before you have eaten any of the dangerous food. I say "hopefully before" because the inspectors take the entire week to inspect every camp. They aren't all done on Monday, and I'm sure some are never inspected.
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Postby portaplaya » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:05 pm

Refusing to deal with Health Inspectors is like fire spinning without a safety or fire extinguishing gear. It's like burning the Man without a safety perimeter (guarded by firemen in heatsuits).
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