How not to use Kickstarter for your Project

How not to use Kickstarter for your Project

Postby Clar-i-ty » Wed May 25, 2011 3:47 am

For those many artists with vision but not the means to create something amazing for the Playa, there is this great thing known as crowd sourcing. For many it has proven successful.

But asking for free $ is an art in itself. You want to give the basics: Who, What, When, Where, Why and How, and perhaps a little inspiration to get people to donate to your project; a sense of participation if you will.

If you are an artist, but not versed in the art of ask, here is some help from the good people at http://penny-arcade.com, who have created a sample of what not to do when starting a Kickstarter campaign. Enjoy!

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Postby goathead » Wed May 25, 2011 4:16 am

This should probaly be a sticky note/required read.

+1

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Postby illy dilly » Wed May 25, 2011 8:05 am

+10 and another +2 royalties for every person that reads this then decides not to create another stupid or over priced kickstarter.

The Kickstarted thing was great at first.... now it seems that there are too many burners trying to take advantage of it.
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Postby Parasitoid » Wed May 25, 2011 8:24 am

I dont even understand what you mean by saying " it seems that there are too many burners trying to take advantage of it."

It's a tool for raising money....
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Postby illy dilly » Wed May 25, 2011 8:59 am

Parasitoid wrote:I dont even understand what you mean by saying " it seems that there are too many burners trying to take advantage of it."

It's a tool for raising money....

I have seen a couple kickstarters where folks are asking for phenomenal amounts of money for things like transportation and supplies. When it seems they should already have transportation, and their project would not warrant additional huge amounts of space. At least in my opinion.
The Tunnel Of Questionable Enlightenment is a good example of when Extra transportation would be needed. Its 100 delicate LED arches- probably don't wanna cram them in the back of a truck.

It seems that in my mind there are a lot of really good kickstarters that are for getting a project going. Then it seems there are a bunch that are 'to get the project started' but to get the project started the artist will need a bigger apartment, a better camp, a bigger trailer, or other things that seem profitable to the artists quality of living, rather than the completion of the project.

I am not saying that every artist is taking advantage of Kickstarter. Or that I am in anyway correct about the projects that I think smell like something just isn't right. I feel that Kickstarter is a place for folks to get funding for completion or start up of a project, not for them to have cool new toys- but maybe I'm wrong. But its a free world, they can do what they want, and so can I.

I think I'll start a Kickstarter- For my project "Cool Hang Out" I'll be creating a space in my theme camp where people can come hang out. But I'll need new stereo equipment, turn tables, a Geo dome, some hammocks, a trailer, and a truck to pull the trailer, I'll also need money for booze and food so I wont be thirsty and starving. I'm only asking for $6000. Please help me bring You a cool place to hangout!
I promise I don't need these things because I want better new supplies and gear.
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Postby MyDearFriend » Wed May 25, 2011 10:40 am

The other thing that needs to be said about using Kickstarter for your Burning Man project:

If you need any kind of approval for your project (mutant vehicle, film, book, flame effects or whatever) you should seek that approval before you ask for money, and if you can't get approval in advance of completion, at least explain how you have addressed the process.

It's almost funny to see folks touting these projects that may or may not make it through the gate... but it is sad, too, and makes me angry.
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Postby Savannah » Wed May 25, 2011 11:34 am

But asking for free $ is an art in itself.


It really is.

So is being gracious, when other people don't get a given idea (maybe it wasn't explained well enough) or don't like an idea (they've a right not to). It is also important to remember that many people are leery to give out money on the internet, have lots of other financial responsibilities that outrank a friend or stranger's plea, or don't have two dollar bills to rub together because they're just trying to get to the burn, period, let alone help someone else with non-essentials.

. . . There's a special kind of reinforcement when someone reacts less than nicely to being turned down. Disappointment is normal and honest, but ugliness just shows everyone they made the right decision.
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Postby Parasitoid » Wed May 25, 2011 12:25 pm

illy dilly wrote:
Parasitoid wrote:I dont even understand what you mean by saying " it seems that there are too many burners trying to take advantage of it."

It's a tool for raising money....

I have seen a couple kickstarters where folks are asking for phenomenal amounts of money for things like transportation and supplies. When it seems they should already have transportation, and their project would not warrant additional huge amounts of space. At least in my opinion.
The Tunnel Of Questionable Enlightenment is a good example of when Extra transportation would be needed. Its 100 delicate LED arches- probably don't wanna cram them in the back of a truck.

It seems that in my mind there are a lot of really good kickstarters that are for getting a project going. Then it seems there are a bunch that are 'to get the project started' but to get the project started the artist will need a bigger apartment, a better camp, a bigger trailer, or other things that seem profitable to the artists quality of living, rather than the completion of the project.

I am not saying that every artist is taking advantage of Kickstarter. Or that I am in anyway correct about the projects that I think smell like something just isn't right. I feel that Kickstarter is a place for folks to get funding for completion or start up of a project, not for them to have cool new toys- but maybe I'm wrong. But its a free world, they can do what they want, and so can I.

I think I'll start a Kickstarter- For my project "Cool Hang Out" I'll be creating a space in my theme camp where people can come hang out. But I'll need new stereo equipment, turn tables, a Geo dome, some hammocks, a trailer, and a truck to pull the trailer, I'll also need money for booze and food so I wont be thirsty and starving. I'm only asking for $6000. Please help me bring You a cool place to hangout!
I promise I don't need these things because I want better new supplies and gear.


That helps me understand a bit. I guess I think you SHOULD create your "cool hang out" kickstarter. It is unlikeley it would be funded but it certainly wouldnt be a nuissance or a missuse of the tool.
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Postby Bob » Wed May 25, 2011 12:46 pm

Re: project descriptions on the kickstarter or the eplaya, you'd think people asking for money outside conventional Burning Man funding channels would choose more transparency rather than less, compared to a (barely) credible Burning Man art grant request that includes a cleanup plan, transportation & heavy equipment plans, why the thing belongs at the event and deserves any kind of funding, etc.

Some of the funding amounts baffle me. Some seem unrealistically modest, some ludicrously extravagant. And somewhat misleading when additional funding or assistance from the org isn't detailed. Welcome to the free market, I guess.
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Postby graidawg » Wed May 25, 2011 1:05 pm

So if i set up a kickstarter to bring my kids to BM, get there passports take them out for drinks to explain why they should go, possibly a kidnap team to make sure they come,buy therre tickets etc. do you think that would get a good response? i could call it surly english gets get angry camp?

i would explain how they all play with fire (they are actually quite good) look a bit weird (i am there dad after all) and would probably do most anything to be realeased from the cages i wuold need to keep them in. Also i am very poor and have never bought them anything so if they thought i had taken them to america to a really good festival/party they might like me. well a little bit. anything beyond the neccassary cost of kidnapping them and a secret flight to nevada would be wisely spent on prostitutes/drugs and alcohol for me to sedate the with.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Wed May 25, 2011 2:11 pm

graidawg wrote:So if i set up a kickstarter to bring my kids to BM, get there passports take them out for drinks to explain why they should go, possibly a kidnap team to make sure they come,buy therre tickets etc. do you think that would get a good response? i could call it surly english gets get angry camp?

i would explain how they all play with fire (they are actually quite good) look a bit weird (i am there dad after all) and would probably do most anything to be realeased from the cages i wuold need to keep them in. Also i am very poor and have never bought them anything so if they thought i had taken them to america to a really good festival/party they might like me. well a little bit. anything beyond the neccassary cost of kidnapping them and a secret flight to nevada would be wisely spent on prostitutes/drugs and alcohol for me to sedate the with.

You would have them at "girls in cages."
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Postby graidawg » Wed May 25, 2011 2:32 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
graidawg wrote:So if i set up a kickstarter to bring my kids to BM, get there passports take them out for drinks to explain why they should go, possibly a kidnap team to make sure they come,buy therre tickets etc. do you think that would get a good response? i could call it surly english gets get angry camp?

i would explain how they all play with fire (they are actually quite good) look a bit weird (i am there dad after all) and would probably do most anything to be realeased from the cages i wuold need to keep them in. Also i am very poor and have never bought them anything so if they thought i had taken them to america to a really good festival/party they might like me. well a little bit. anything beyond the neccassary cost of kidnapping them and a secret flight to nevada would be wisely spent on prostitutes/drugs and alcohol for me to sedate the with.

You would have them at "girls in cages."


Girl, my daughter (but she is pretty and single) (ish)
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Postby illy dilly » Wed May 25, 2011 3:09 pm

graidawg wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
graidawg wrote:So if i set up a kickstarter to bring my kids to BM, get there passports take them out for drinks to explain why they should go, possibly a kidnap team to make sure they come,buy therre tickets etc. do you think that would get a good response? i could call it surly english gets get angry camp?

i would explain how they all play with fire (they are actually quite good) look a bit weird (i am there dad after all) and would probably do most anything to be realeased from the cages i wuold need to keep them in. Also i am very poor and have never bought them anything so if they thought i had taken them to america to a really good festival/party they might like me. well a little bit. anything beyond the neccassary cost of kidnapping them and a secret flight to nevada would be wisely spent on prostitutes/drugs and alcohol for me to sedate the with.

You would have them at "girls in cages."


Girl, my daughter (but she is pretty and single) (ish)

Lol, Pretty single girl in cage.... 5... 4... 3... 2... 1... Yep, project funded!
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Postby FuzzyWobble » Wed May 25, 2011 6:51 pm

i just wanna say
kickstarter is amazing
if used properly
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Postby theCryptofishist » Wed May 25, 2011 7:04 pm

So's the Hitachi Magic Wand.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Wed May 25, 2011 7:05 pm

So, grai, what does it mean that your daughter is "single ish". These wacky kids these days have such interesting types of relationships.
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Postby happydragon » Wed May 25, 2011 10:55 pm

So you're telling me I shouldn't put up the kickstart page to buy myself a big truck and trailer so I can get out to the playa where you can admire the beauty and art that is me? (for an extra donation you also get to ogle the beauty and art that is the gf I will be bringing if funded sufficiently to buy her ticket....) Damn. On to plan b, getting a second job...
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Postby graidawg » Wed May 25, 2011 11:13 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:So, grai, what does it mean that your daughter is "single ish". These wacky kids these days have such interesting types of relationships.


she isnt married or living with someone and as far as i know the guy she is seiing is 'just a bit of fun' who am i to judge :D


oh and she doesnt own a hitachi
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Postby Clar-i-ty » Wed May 25, 2011 11:42 pm

graidawg wrote:
oh and she doesnt own a hitachi


FAIL!
GET OUT OF MY TRUCK HIPPIE!
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Postby illy dilly » Thu May 26, 2011 12:07 pm

Parasitoid wrote:I guess I think you SHOULD create your "cool hang out" kickstarter. It is unlikeley it would be funded but it certainly wouldnt be a nuissance or a missuse of the tool.

Fuck no I shouldn't! It would be a total misuse of the tool! It would be me taking advantage of other people so that I could have cool new toys.

But I'm a capitalist pig, and I think if you can't afford it, you don't get it! Until you find a way to make your own damned money to buy it!
Some of the great art projects, need help to be funded because the person building it can't afford all the materials or specialized tools. But they are putting scores of time into it, to give something back to the community.

FuzzyWobble wrote:i just wanna say
kickstarter is amazing
if used properly

Amen! +1


theCryptofishist wrote:So's the Hitachi Magic Wand.

Amen! +2
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Postby C.f.M. » Thu May 26, 2011 1:09 pm

The problem I initially had with all these camps using Kickstarter all of a sudden is it didn't seem to fit with the original idea behind Kickstarter as I was understanding it, thus far (I remember when it started).

"Kickstarter is focused on creative projects. We're a great way for artists, filmmakers, musicians, designers, writers, illustrators, explorers, curators, performers, and others to bring their projects, events, and dreams to life.


The word “projectâ€
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Thu May 26, 2011 1:23 pm

I can panhandle.
I may even use your money to buy booze or drugs.
You don't have to give me a goddamn penny if you don't want to.

That's how I feel about Kickstarter and other ways of funding projects.
If you don't like it, don't fork out any money.

We have plenty of regulations as it is.
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Postby graidawg » Thu May 26, 2011 4:14 pm

Clar-i-ty wrote:
graidawg wrote:
oh and she doesnt own a hitachi


FAIL!


of course i could wrong, i will admit my daughters sexual deviancy is not something she discusses in detail with me, I overhear enough when she talks to her mates to make me think its best that way.

Also i like the idea of her bieng in a cage, remeber the bars will keep the guys out too.

girls in cages hmm. . . . . . has anyone done that as a theme camp yet?
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Postby fbcota » Thu May 26, 2011 4:42 pm

The douche projects tend to fail. There are a couple on there right now if you search "Burning Man" that were clearly a money grab and they are clearly failing.

I think each project is using Kickstarter differently. I was initially baffled by the funding amounts, and with some projects I still am. With ours we used KS to fill the gap between our Org funding and our Tier 2 budget. We tried to keep it pretty clear to all our donors where the money was going. Our costs are relatively low (for a project our size) because we are scavenging every board, net and boat we can find.

It seems most of the projects on the site are still real art projects that need a push. There are maybe only a total of 115 BM projects from the past 2 years on the site with I think about a third of them that have failed to reach funding.

Does KS match the ethos of the Burn? I'm not really sure. But its helping me make rad art, and if it makes anyone feel better I am still starving :P.
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Postby jkisha » Thu May 26, 2011 10:29 pm

fbcota wrote:Does KS match the ethos of the Burn? I'm not really sure. But its helping me make rad art, and if it makes anyone feel better I am still starving :P.

Knowing you're starving doesn't make me feel better. It's sad that artists have to starve to create.
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Postby C.f.M. » Fri May 27, 2011 7:00 am

jkisha wrote:
fbcota wrote:Does KS match the ethos of the Burn? I'm not really sure. But its helping me make rad art, and if it makes anyone feel better I am still starving :P.

Knowing you're starving doesn't make me feel better. It's sad that artists have to starve to create.


Not at all, the pain and misery stokes the soul-fire of creativity. Who's fat and happy and making good art?
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Postby jkisha » Fri May 27, 2011 7:18 am

C.f.M. wrote:
jkisha wrote:
fbcota wrote:Does KS match the ethos of the Burn? I'm not really sure. But its helping me make rad art, and if it makes anyone feel better I am still starving :P.

Knowing you're starving doesn't make me feel better. It's sad that artists have to starve to create.


Not at all, the pain and misery stokes the soul-fire of creativity. Who's fat and happy and making good art?

Creative people will be creative whether they are rich or poor. The main reason they are poor is that society does not value art and its contribution to humanity.

An artist starving and in pain will often produce depressing art.
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Postby Parasitoid » Fri May 27, 2011 10:08 am

LOL @ "good art"
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Postby fbcota » Fri May 27, 2011 10:57 am

jkisha: I agree. My response was all snark.

I am not sure how I feel about art and capitalism. On one side you can debate that most great artists were supported by the state, but then how do you reconcile that with the proliferation of amazing American artists?

I do think art in this country is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY undervalued. I would love to sit down and just make art all day, every day, while still feeding myself. But, I have not passed any litmus test? I don't sell my art on a regular basis? My skills may be put to better use elsewhere, and in the end I may just be another stubborn hack who should have stopped making art years ago and that is why I can't make a penny :P.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Fri May 27, 2011 12:47 pm

jkisha wrote:
C.f.M. wrote:
jkisha wrote:
fbcota wrote:Does KS match the ethos of the Burn? I'm not really sure. But its helping me make rad art, and if it makes anyone feel better I am still starving :P.

Knowing you're starving doesn't make me feel better. It's sad that artists have to starve to create.


Not at all, the pain and misery stokes the soul-fire of creativity. Who's fat and happy and making good art?

Creative people will be creative whether they are rich or poor. The main reason they are poor is that society does not value art and its contribution to humanity.

An artist starving and in pain will often produce depressing art.


JK's right. We have this "suffering artist" meme in the culture, probably going back to the Romantics, but it's a crock. Not that suffering art isn't worthy or interesting, it's just not the only kind. I offer Caulder. I don't know about his personal life, but his art is wonderful and a lot of fun and I don't see that angst that we are conditioned to look for.
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