Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby marck » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:30 pm

I keep seeing this happen every year when we would camp on the Man side of A street.
Burners walking though our camp with an undeserved sense of self-entitlement. During set-up before the gate opens it might be somewhat understandable. But I know we've told everyone who walked through before Sunday that they shouldn't expect to be able to after we've set up.

This polite request doesn't find it's way to the offenders. Our camp is our home for almost two weeks, it is very rude to stomp through without the decency of stopping in sometime before just to introduce yourself. You may not like it if our camp decides to come over and sit in your chairs and use your shade without talking to you first. I blame the village for these inconsiderate people, they are your campers, train them better.

Your burn is not everyone's burn, don't expect your burn-view to be shared, don't expect the same acceptance from strangers. This is why polite burners go out of their way to meet their neighbors. Especially when you consider doing something that might piss them off.

We've had problems before with people using our camp as a toilet or walking off with bikes and other equipment. Because of this some of our campmates take a real aggressive approach to strangers in our camp. If you are asked to leave a camp that is not yours, do what you are told or you may get something thrown at you or soaked with grey water, or dye, or paint.

---------

One other thing, A street is Pedestrian Only. It has been Ped-Only for over five years, and you are informed of this when you register.
Just because you have spent some money on "mutant vehicle" does not mean you can do anything you want.
You have rules you must follow, you also have a license plate number that can be turned in.
If you were asked not to drive on A and you did it anyway, and if someone was pissed off enough, they just need to report your license.

If it was me, or my people, you tried to threaten or push around, then it probably did get turned in. There are plenty of other people who would like the opportunity to have a registered Mutant Vehicle driving around the city who are willing to obey the rules.
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby lemur » Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:00 am

marck wrote:Your burn is not everyone's burn, don't expect your burn-view to be shared, don't expect the same acceptance from strangers




quitcher bitchin!

put up a higher fence.
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby Packoderm » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:32 am

I suggest moving your camp to Soberville next year.
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby marck » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:29 am

lemur wrote:put up a higher fence.


We did that after the walkthroughs continued but the Hive campers chose to tear it down and continued to walkthrough. We repaired it each time.

I considered a fivefoot wide barrier with caution tape and baracade fencing that would result in a lot of work to cross or tear down. But it was already Tuesday and I had other projects I had to prepare.

We also dismissed another suggestion to put up unmarked rebar with bailing wire or a solarpowered electric fence which I thought was a very environmentally way to say; "Keep your damn dirty raver hippy feet off our nets and plastic weapons."
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby lucky420 » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:13 pm

People who do what you described are just rude, wether at BRC or in defaultia. I wonder, though, if they just go over to their neighbors yard in defaultia and act like that? :roll: :?
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby gaminwench » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:35 pm

Our lovely neighbors awakened Tuesday morning to a poop dump in the private space behind their saloon.
They chose to erect a barbed wire fence on their 'dividing line' between public and private.
After several of our campers walked into it that evening, we asked their permission to light the fence for safety.
Once lit, it proved a very effective deterrent to the aggro boyz and idjits.
Sad, but true.
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby Eric » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:36 pm

marck wrote:
lemur wrote:put up a higher fence.


We did that after the walkthroughs continued but the Hive campers chose to tear it down and continued to walkthrough. We repaired it each time.


Meet the wonder of the "trash tent", my friend. Those busted up janky ass tents have uses far beyond sleeping- they make great barricades. Set them at odd angles in the trouble area with crossing guy-wires, make it so it's more work to go through them than around them. Use them to toss your trash bags, empty water jugs etc (keep the door facing your side): keeps your trash contained and makes a useful barrier to jerks.

We've used them successfully for years.
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby marck » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:50 am

That is a great idea Eric, I hadn't thought of using old broken tents like that before.
I'm putting that in my notebook.

(BTW it was good meeting you at BBSue's canteena on my drunk night.)
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby Eric » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:41 am

marck wrote:(BTW it was good meeting you at BBSue's canteena on my drunk night.)


Drunk night??? As in one time?? You will have to explain this concept to me. I'll bring a bottle of Makers Mark for us to discuss it over...
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby EspressoDude » Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:16 am

marck wrote:That is a great idea Eric, I hadn't thought of using old broken tents like that before.
I'm putting that in my notebook.

(BTW it was good meeting you at BBSue's canteena on my drunk night.)



great idea!! collect them on the way out....de-mooptenting the playa, then next year set up as described...add speakers..play with the peoples minds...wild sex sounds, gunfire... trash collecting.. time to leave wad them into the trash trailer. dump them at home.
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby curiousgnate » Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:52 am

i love that this thread has become a positive helpful thread after a rant. i could rant on the same thing as well, but well Eric has now solved the problem!
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby delle » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:51 am

I loved the burbs (9:45 & I). Our neighbours were WONDERFUL, respectful, friendly and just all around lovely folks who I hope to keep in touch with and see again next time.

I do like that trash-tent trick tho.... very useful advice!!!!
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby Packoderm » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:40 am

I woke up to what I thought should have been an empty camp to find a few people I didn't know sitting in our couches. I gave it a quick thought, and I asked them if they needed a beer, water, or something to eat. They took a small bottle of water and a protein bar, I went back into my little RV, and they were gone when I woke up in the morning.
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby hookahdude » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:28 pm

I love the trash tent idea and in all honesty, think it should be stickied - we need more stickies! :P

Concerning asshats - I invite you to drive 90 minutes south to Carson City, which has a population just a little larger than BRC, and spend a week there acting as you would at Burning Man. Count the number of rude asshats, and give us a report.

Every city has rude dickheads(and great people), asshole cops(and good cops), shitty neighbors(and good neighbors), and just all around dipshits(and kind hearted individuals). I firmly believe that, on the whole, BRC percentages are rock bottom as compared to any city of comaprable size in defaultia.

There is no such thing as a Utopia - even in BRC. But having lived all over the country - it is the closest thing I have seen to what I would consider - my perfect place.
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby marck » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:37 pm

Eric wrote:
marck wrote:(BTW it was good meeting you at BBSue's canteena on my drunk night.)


Drunk night??? As in one time?? You will have to explain this concept to me. I'll bring a bottle of Makers Mark for us to discuss it over...


More like the one night I get so drunk I don't remember some of the night. It messes up the next day for me so I try to keep it down to one night.
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby marck » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:43 pm

curiousgnate wrote:i love that this thread has become a positive helpful thread after a rant. i could rant on the same thing as well, but well Eric has now solved the problem!


I think the tread was a positive and helpfull warning to irresponsible villages and theme camps on the esplanade from the start. But then, as expected, you didn't get that part.
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby Aya » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:49 pm

I thought of a very easy and effective trap. 5 foot high line with fly strips all the way across it and sticky rodent traps attached also, the cleanup is easy, just snip em and let them drop into a bag.
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby Cheyenne » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:53 pm

helpfull warning to irresponsible villages and theme camps on the esplanade from the start.


I hope your not generalising about theme camps on espl. ??
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby Packoderm » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:54 pm

I still think the method I described was more effective. Just treat them nice, and hopefully it will spread. Negativity is negativity whether or not it is justified, and it will spread just as fast as positivity.
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby marck » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:03 pm

Packoderm wrote:I woke up to what I thought should have been an empty camp to find a few people I didn't know sitting in our couches.


Your view and decision worked for you, that is good for you. My concern is that we are seeing a growing lack of respect or consideration twoards other camps. This is not neighborly or polite.

Our camp was right at the corner of A and 03:30. One group of indiviguals insisted that by not allowing them to ride their bicycles through our camp to get directly to theirs, I didn't have the BurningMan spirit. My reply was, "So this is your first burn?" The answer was "Yes!" My response was "Walk your bike out of my camp, back to the street and ride to your camp from there."
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby marck » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:05 pm

Cheyenne wrote:
helpfull warning to irresponsible villages and theme camps on the esplanade from the start.


I hope your not generalising about theme camps on espl. ??


Only the irresponsible ones, we've had great neighbors before and they are not the problem.
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby Packoderm » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:11 pm

marck wrote:
Packoderm wrote:I woke up to what I thought should have been an empty camp to find a few people I didn't know sitting in our couches.


Your view and decision worked for you, that is good for you. My concern is that we are seeing a growing lack of respect or consideration twoards other camps. This is not neighborly or polite.

Our camp was right at the corner of A and 03:30. One group of indiviguals insisted that by not allowing them to ride their bicycles through our camp to get directly to theirs, I didn't have the BurningMan spirit. My reply was, "So this is your first burn?" The answer was "Yes!" My response was "Walk your bike out of my camp, back to the street and ride to your camp from there."


I'm a teacher at a continuation high school, so I deal with this stuff all the time. It doesn't bother me like it used to. I'd ask the bicycle short cutters if they wouldn't mind helping me make a roadway out of tarps to cut across the camp. I have about 1/2 of the tarps needed, maybe they can scrounge up the rest. We need the tarp surface because the dust raised up from bikes is really playing havoc on my girlfriends sinus's and affecting my cooking. "Let's sit down for a beer and discuss plans." They'd get the picture. If not, we'd have a roadway through camp I guess. But in reality, that's why we camp in the peripheries. There is a price to pay for the exciting neighborhood.
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby marck » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:26 pm

hookahdude wrote:Every city has rude dickheads(and great people), asshole cops(and good cops), shitty neighbors(and good neighbors), and just all around dipshits(and kind hearted individuals).


Any other city would agree that it is wrong to "cut through" someone elses backyard or livingroom.
as BRC grows and changes it is up to it's citizens to direct and decide how we are expected to interact with each other in this city of 50,000+ people from different cultures.

It is easy to stick your head in the ground and say "But it's better here than anywhere else." But by doing that you will find that soon BRC will be just like everywhere else.

We, as the people running theme camps and villages, have a responsibility to educated our people to make sure they understand what it means to be a good citizen of BRC and deal with the problem children we have in our camps.
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby marck » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:36 pm

Packoderm wrote:But in reality, that's why we camp in the peripheries. There is a price to pay for the exciting neighborhood.


Again, I'm glad your solution works for you, and we have worked out similar solutions with other camps in previous years. But I camp with a theme camp of over 35 people in a village with over 150 total, we can't/won't move to the sticks.
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby hookahdude » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:57 pm

marck wrote:It is easy to stick your head in the ground and say "But it's better here than anywhere else." But by doing that you will find that soon BRC will be just like everywhere else.

We, as the people running theme camps and villages, have a responsibility to educated our people to make sure they understand what it means to be a good citizen of BRC and deal with the problem children we have in our camps.


Just checked my post - nope never said anything about putting your, or my head, in the sand. Pretty sure the intent of the post was to put it into perspective. Let me see.. yup... I posted it... Yeah... that is how I read it.

I also never said that any city would deem the behaviour as acceptable.

I also realized I forgot to put my standard disclaimer-
This is just my opinion and I may be a complete asshat.
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby marck » Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:29 pm

hookahdude wrote:Pretty sure the intent of the post was to put it into perspective.


I'm also pretty sure my comment was regarding your perspective of BLC being a better place than other cities.

This city is only as good as we try to make it.
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby Trishntek » Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:47 pm

Our camp was so tight there was no direct route from one end to the other for anyone to pass through. Even we had to take circuitous paths to go from one side of the camp to the other.
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby atomicray » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:31 pm

Gals and guys,

I know first hand that it is the negative that is easiest to remember as a whole...the good memories are what they are but it seems there are lots of stories of woe coming out of this year's event.

:shock:

I am still looking forward to finding some local property, relative to East of Reno. But some of the excitement I had is being sucked away by certain comments and direction of the same.

Perhaps I am too conservative and A-type to ever fully accept the Burning Man process...and I was welcoming the thought of letting some of my tightness go and opening up a bit...but...I am just too aggressive and possessive to allow some of this crap y'all let roll off like so much rain off a duck (yeah I know, ducks hate rain lol).

Grab my wife and make your moves on her...at the very least I would hurt you...at the least...not a sour look and some prickly words or tsk tsk on you.

(insert all the stuff that fits this sort of situation)

And then the camp trespass issues...stories of reaching your tent after a evening/day of fun only to find that some slept in your tent, ate your food, stole your shower, etc...I gotta say, this makes me mad and it has nothing to do with me.

I may need the opportunity that the event could offer, but I don't need or want the jail time that the event seems to guarantee.

I watched the event...so much watching...loved it! The Ustream was amazing...so much fun, so much dust, and the night lights...just ridiculously wonderful. The art cars, the art installations, and the general massive nature of the instant population...intense.

And some of what I have learned in my very short education regarding what others have experienced attending burning man:

if you make art then design it to be climbed because there is no stopping the climbing
there are boobies out there so expect frat boys, lookie loos, and many many a tourist with cameras to be present (most shooting without permission)
your bike is a target
your RV/cmaper is considered a public toilet; including the sink, garbage can, and the steps
any resources that can be found will be self gifted (they deserve your stuff after all)
old timers hate trance/electronic music
younglings hate old timers
there is a lot of dust
it is really hot
sometimes it gets cold
there is wholesale begging and people who feel that you must provide for them
sigh...

on the good side...

friendly groups of veterans are everywhere that agro frat boys are not
the mornings are full of a serine calm
the nights are full of sparkling wonderful
there are more art cars than you can shake a stick at and they look better at night...all praise the LED light rope!
boobies
Ustream can not show shirtcocking (oh thank god!)
lots of people share food, water, and drinks

*****

But the topic of not teaching the birgins...is this more a case of birgins coming enmasse without veterans to teach them?

More likely the errant birgins are thrusting themselves onto burning man to see if there is endless sex, drugs, and rock-n-roll..."hey dude, you just show up and get free drinks/drugs, sleep/crap anywhere you want, and can screw anything that walks just for the price of a ticket!"

The image of what happens at Spring Break/Burning Man is more the issue I would think...expectations outweighing any potential for learning about the event.

Shame really...the event as a whole sounds wonderfully stressful and over stimulating at the same time lol.
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby hookahdude » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:35 pm

marck wrote:This city is only as good as we try to make it.


+100

And that gets nothing other than a hearty - AMEN!
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Re: Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

Postby AntiM » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:04 am

Traditionally, Hushville is placed on a double-wide village block. This means a road deadends at the village. We have a five pointed interior road system, with a town round, which does NOT connect to the dead end road on purpose. What goes there? A big ass Wall O' Art. Aka my Home for Wayward Art. We make it hard to go around us with ease by bike, and harder to get out of the village by bike; going around is shorter than trying to cut across!

What's funny is when we get yelled at for camping "in the middle of the road". I've been tempted to post a map on the double-arrow turn sign. When it hasn't been stolen...

But yes, cutting through someone else's camp is rude, and should be high on the etiquette of the desert training manual.

The trash tent is brilliant. I imagine evap ponds would serve much the same purpose. Or tangled bike "parking".
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