A Therapy Thread:B.S slacker "members"/ Camp Probl

Should I leave my camp next year?

Yes, Join the 9 side.
6
30%
No, stay with your crew and rough it out
0
No votes
Give the camp a chance and when all seems lost move to 9oclock
1
5%
Eat some bacon and smack my bitch up
7
35%
Give it a chance and decide later in the year fool.
6
30%
 
Total votes : 20

A Therapy Thread:B.S slacker "members"/ Camp Probl

Postby Akitses6 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:16 pm

Hello lovely eplayaians
I come to you in hopes of clearing some stress, since I don't know where else to turn- my friend circle is slowly falling apart in front of my eyes.
Ive been to the playa these past three magical years. Last year was my first year running a theme camp with my best friends.
Were a group of about several core members and we were defiantly very very far from having our shit together.

Our "meetings" disastrous.

Our location was decided without me knowing Ive camped at 3 oclock every year (3years)and im seriously seriously drawn to camp at 9oclock atleast once. But now were at 3&a so I guess were stuck there for reputation.

Fundraisers were okay but we didn't have enough and far too little people cared to actually help.

One of our members took the liberty of allowing a separate group, a fire conclave, and after hearing about our bomb location and camp our camp went from about 20 good good friend members to 60 who the fuck are these people members. ( People were looking at core members like who are they, when they sure as shit didnt lift a damn finger for the camp)

Granted, a lot of the conclave didnt camp with us but when they did come around I was pretty angry... If people were more involved and friendly I would be happy to share with them but the problem is they just pretty much would just drop by when the sun went down for some grub, bitches.

I'm all for radical self inclusion and sharing a community, BUT if you just pay a fee and think you can just reap the benefits without showing up to the meetings, fundraisers, cleaning and set up/break down/daily camp maintenance etc then we have another thing coming.

Burning Man is a sharing community and all but i should WANT to share with them. They should learn my fuckin name and get to know me and be social, helpful, and involved.

Maybe I am taking this too seriously BUT if I wanted a large camp with distant members Im beginning to think I should just join a large sound camp and leave my crew for next year.[u] Stress shouldn't be existent on the Playa.
[/u]

The problem of the situation is [i]fucking money[/i]. We need money for the gas for our burner school bus to get out there ( which is why them paying the fee is cool by me, i just hate the fact they didnt fucking care!!!) so if you guys could help out with advice on fundraisers that would be awesome also any suggested punishments or consequences or advice on how to get people more involved and raise money that would be awesome. And any input on how often your camp has meetings and get togethers' or fundraisers would be awesome to because I just need some perspective on whether im just blowing too big (or too small) of a load over this situation

if people planning on being with us dont seem to care and dont help out ima say fuck em and camp elsewhere. I hope that doesnt effect my friendships too much because I have love for the camp but im pretty fed up with it, I guess thats what I get for having a camp with my best friends. Im down to the wire folks - thank you for taking the time to read this; pooorly written during the morning after SF decompression note
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Postby gaminwench » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:37 pm

Your location can/will change yearly.
When folks you don't know pay into your camp, you're not (usually) going to get willing volunteers.
Set limits... number in camp, last dues paid by, guests allowed at dinner, etc., to which every core member agrees & adheres.

Don't expect campers' dues to cover your personal costs.
Create a budget now, of on-playa possibilities, with levels...
a) With $X, we can have a dome and showers
b) with $X+Y, we can add shade for all tenters
c) with $X+Y+Z, we can have a bar
or whatever... whichever goal you attain, that's what you do...

IMHO, communal kitchen works best when each camper is assigned to a meal team pre-playa; each team plans, shops & prepares their meal for the whole camp... this limits 'guests' to reasonable numbers, since everyone in camp is aware of/shares food responsibilities...

YMMV,
Good luck...
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Postby Akitses6 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:02 pm

Thats another thing we had camp meals and each core member ran a different days group. The members which I never got to know were all assigned to the first monday night but only one of them showed up and did the meal for the camp. Then throughout the week they would trickle in and when you dont know them you cant tell who actually paid and "belongs" there or who just was invited along.

I can be really passive aggressive and I hate confrontation especially on the Playa most of the time I just did my own thing and enjoyed it to the fullest its just kinda disappointing that I had to suppress all this anxiety in the first place.
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Postby robrob » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:51 pm

I can be really passive aggressive...


...long winded and whiny, too!

(and from the outside, it doesn't sound like you made much of an effort to meet and of Them either so it's not surprising you guys were there to exploit each other). you got gas money, they got some food. I dunno. Grow a pair. you're from San Francisco, not that fucking far away. figure it out.

seriously, this is supposed to at least be kinda fun and it sounds like you are stressed out over a bunch of dumb shit (not saying they arent valid things to be bitching about, but...). Either go with the flow and deal with it, or draw the line and break out on your own so you can try and control every little thing to your liking.

i wouldn't have a hobby that annoyed you so much. thats my two cents.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:39 pm

Sounds like you didn't even get it clear with your friends, much less with the "interlopers."
No expectations.
No expectations that someone else will pay your gas. (Start saving now!)
No expectations that just because you are friends means that you are able to run a large camp together. (Maybe running a small one a year or two would have helped you get a sense of the dynamics.)
What the fuck is:
Stress shouldn't be existent on the Playa.

Apart from the really awkward syntax, stress is everywhere on the playa. Ask ESD stepping in when there are serious accidents and deliberate injury. Ask the Large Dance Camps, where thousands dance and dozens moop. Ask the builders of the man or the temple or any of the other large playa installations and burns. What fucking daydream were you living in? No wonder the playa bitchslapped you.
And, what were you offering, besides a chow and flop house anyway? If you were simply a bedroom community then you were used as you presented yourself. I saw nothing about interactivity in your post. Certainly nothing anyone should care about.
Forget about fundraisers. Save money. Have your half-dozen best burning buds save money. Drive up together and have a good, stress free time. And don't try another fucking camp! You must be this *gesture* mature to go on that ride, and you just found out why.
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Postby jkisha » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:49 pm

Here's another approach...charge a huge fee. Those that are committed enough to pay it are usually committed enough to do what they say they will do. And in case there are a few slackers, they paid enough money to support the camp that you won't be as angry that they didn't participate as expected.

Or, if you don't like that idea; try charging an even larger fee and let everybody know that if they do the things they were expected to do a large percentage of the fee would be refunded. Then, if there are slackers, they've paid in advance for others to do their work.

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Postby maryanimal » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:46 pm

Instead of running a camp, just grab a few friends, set up "house" kick back and relax. Start saving for your own needs, your friends should do likewise, and share meals, go out and meet people, see the sites! How stressful would THAT be? Just prepare prepare prepare!!
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Postby AntiM » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:20 am

There once was someone who camped in a village (no fees), yet would go over to a favorite theme camp and enjoy the meals and showers with friends (skipped paying the fees). This bothered me a great deal. Are there details I don't know? No doubt, but the appearance of moocherhood is as damning as moocherhood itself. (and no, not an eplayan if anyone is wondering and getting ready to defend their honor)
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Postby Lassen Forge » Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:32 am

maryanimal wrote:Instead of running a camp, just grab a few friends, set up "house" kick back and relax. Start saving for your own needs, your friends should do likewise, and share meals, go out and meet people, see the sites! How stressful would THAT be? Just prepare prepare prepare!!


+10.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:30 am

Okay, I came down hard, harder than this poor schmuck deserved. However, I still see it as a case of "please fund me, but don't make me have to actually deal with you." Add my x behind Maryanimal's and Sue's.

(Edited to add: Although why talking to his friends isn't on the table is beyond me. That's the one chance to let them understand what his expectations were and possibly move towards a common vision. Oh well.)
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Postby The CO » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:54 am

jkisha wrote:Here's another approach...charge a huge fee.


I am so doing that with the people that contact me a week before the burn wanting to join.

You want to enlist in M*A*S*H 4207th 5 days before the event?
Our camp fees are $1000 per person, cash in advance.
Plus you have to bring a 1/2 gallon of top-shelf liquor for each person in camp. (I'll email you a list of brand preferences from the other 20 folks, that should run you another $2000)

In return, you will get nothing from us except a 3'x5' square of dirt, next to the evaporation fountain & garbage corral.
We will provide no food or supplies of any kind other than all the grey water you can drink.
You are not allowed to set up any kind of tent or shade, as this would detract from the "look" of the fountain & camp.
You will also have to dress as a Korean peasant farmer circa 1953 for the entire week-You provide the outfit, and it had better be authentic.
Required to speak fluent Korean & no english.


My name is The CO, and I approve this message.
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Postby Fire_Moose » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:56 am

this is what you get for running a theme camp...
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Postby Lord Of Ruin » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:38 am

I agree with most of the posts that deal with how to actually deal with the problem listed. It's a function of letting expectations get out of control.

I camped with a friend in my first year and he had a meltdown when campmates didn't fulfll their end of the bargain. Granted, some of those things were critical to the overall camp (if ya say you're bringing the shade structure for an entire camp to a desert event, fuckin' bring it. Do NOT leave it behind because you wanted your bike to get around instead).

But he meltdown which lasted the whole event overshadowed the problems caused by the other peeps.

But another thing this post brings up is that if people are going to start leaning heavily on the 10 principles, then they need to embrace ALL of them to the level of which they rely on any one.

So don't go fucking mooching off people saying "Hey man, where's your radical inclusion?" when they get angry. Where's your damn radical self-reliance? YOUR radical inclusion?

Too many entitled fucktards out there think the 10 principles are some sort of pick-what-you-like-ignore-the-rest type of deal that opens the gateway to entitlement.
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Postby Akitses6 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:58 pm

Thanks for your input everyone. First off we were really interactive- My camp was the Alkaline Cafe, we had all our supplies but we needed more help then last moment members offered.

We gave out coffee and tea, and for our first theme camp we werent amazing, but I know we have potential to be a lot better.

Im sorry if I come off as whiny or naive about running a theme camp I just wanted peoples advice on how to bring camp members more together, i really dont appretiate the comments on my character cause that has nothing to do with my situation.

Sorry if I came off a tad foolish but I guess thats my fault. I just wanted advice on how to get people more involved and helpful. We have started the fundraisers. and hopefully we raise enough to bring a better camp to the Playa then before.
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Postby Dr. Pyro » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:01 pm

My two cents, sans snark.

BDC&WB charges a rising scale, but not too bad. (In 2010 it was $50 until July 1, $75 after that, and $100 if paid on the playa.) Our only fundraiser was the sale of personalized shirts ($20) and hats ($15). No one was forced to purchase either and we let everybody know ahead of time that all money raised from the sale went directly to offset the cost of the wine we give away. All camp dues went towards infrastructure, art vehicle, storage of Barbies, glowstix, and so on.

I would like to say how proud I am of our villagemates. With but a few rare exceptions, everyone happily pitched in and could be counted upon, no questions asked. Part of that is the way we handle pre-playa: Beginning in January we have a monthly newsletter that lists what is on our Wish List, names and email addresses of new members which makes them all feel welcome, reminders of dues, and we try to attach an article germaine to Barbie Death Camp (there are only about a jillion of them on the internet) giving everyone a sense of community.

If you did not get the cooperation you were looking for, might I suggest doing whatever is necessary to build camaraderie among the people you intend to camp with. Our Village had people from as far away as the Czech Republic (hi Misa!) and France, and from 17 (at least) different states. For me it is a labor of love organizing the camps, and I let the individual mayors of each camp have total autonomy to expel people or invite some lost sheep into the fold.

I hope this helps.
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Organization and planning

Postby madmatt » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:09 pm

Hahaha, I have experienced every one of your camp planning problems to a greater or lesser degree, and am deeply sympathetic.

In my opinion, your only solution lies in organization, planning and committment. I recommend you approach the camp planning like you would a professionally run event. Have a small group of people who are "in charge" - on some level, but not on all the small details. That way, the people who are not super involved can still do stuff and have input, but not on the broad lines.

Plan your camp, and camp your plan! - decided how large in people and in infrastructure/layout/complexity - you want to be. Based on that, decide how much you will need to spend, how much you will ask people to pitch in, and plan to fill in the gap with fundraising. Conversely, you can decide on a budget first and work backwards that way - either way, make some hard lines that you can stick to and use as a tool to keep everyone in check when they start running wild.

etc etc
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Postby The CO » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:13 pm

Lets see, we have "How to start/How to join a theme camp" threads, maybe we need "How to run a theme camp".
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Postby Snow » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:18 pm

don't forget, "How to break up with my theme camp" and "How to put my theme camp out of it's misery"
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Postby Bounce530 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:34 pm

and "how to unfriend your camp on facebook"
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Postby Elorrum » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:49 pm

or "Why a theme camp?" not really selling me on the idea so far.
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Postby jkisha » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:12 pm

Elorrum wrote:or "Why a theme camp?" not really selling me on the idea so far.


I like camping with our theme camp for a variety of reasons, among the most important to me being: The camaraderie, the community shade structure and dome, the community showers, the community events and most importantly, everyone getting together to serve root beer floats to anyone walking by that wants one. It's a great was to give something back to the event and in a small way to add another unexpected something for others to enjoy.

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Postby ygmir » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:29 pm

jkisha wrote:
Elorrum wrote:or "Why a theme camp?" not really selling me on the idea so far.


I like camping with our theme camp for a variety of reasons, among the most important to me being: The camaraderie, the community shade structure and dome, the community showers, the community events and most importantly, everyone getting together to serve root beer floats to anyone walking by that wants one. It's a great was to give something back to the event and in a small way to add another unexpected something for others to enjoy.

JK


*pouting*
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Postby jkisha » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:22 pm

ygmir wrote:
jkisha wrote:
Elorrum wrote:or "Why a theme camp?" not really selling me on the idea so far.


I like camping with our theme camp for a variety of reasons, among the most important to me being: The camaraderie, the community shade structure and dome, the community showers, the community events and most importantly, everyone getting together to serve root beer floats to anyone walking by that wants one. It's a great was to give something back to the event and in a small way to add another unexpected something for others to enjoy.

JK


*pouting*


Always next year.

There is just too much to see and do on the playa. I don't think you could see everything if the event were a month long. That's one of the reasons I enjoy everybody else's pictures--I get to see everything I missed.

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Postby Fire_Moose » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:07 am

We should make BM one GIANT theme camp....
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Postby The CO » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:53 am

I only fun a theme camp to get people to help set up my collection of big tents.
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Postby jkisha » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:22 am

If it wasn't for theme camps, what would there be to do at Burning Man? Am I wrong in thinking that most of the activities and art are provided by theme camps? If so, wouldn't everyone that isn't a member of a theme camp be a tourist there to enjoy but not to contribute?

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Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:10 am

Elorrum wrote:or "Why a theme camp?" not really selling me on the idea so far.


I have intended to post a third thread, called "You Don't Need a Theme Camp!" to support the camping alone or with immediate friends idea. I felt there was no hurry, although maybe November at the latest, so there's a couple of pages of posts by the time shiney new ones start popping on to the board and we can refer them to it when appropriate. Of course, anyone can start his or her own thread on whatever lines he or she likes.

And I still haven't figured out where to talk about Staggers, Orphans and [channels Cher]Thieves[/channels Cher] camps.
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Postby knowmad » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:01 pm

Plz don't move to the 9:00 side. We have our own damn problems.
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Postby Elorrum » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:28 pm

jkisha wrote:If it wasn't for theme camps, what would there be to do at Burning Man? Am I wrong in thinking that most of the activities and art are provided by theme camps? If so, wouldn't everyone that isn't a member of a theme camp be a tourist there to enjoy but not to contribute?

JK


OH I think you are VERY wrong with the idea that only theme camps make art, or only theme camps give things to the community.
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Postby AntiM » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:05 pm

Elorrum wrote:
jkisha wrote:If it wasn't for theme camps, what would there be to do at Burning Man? Am I wrong in thinking that most of the activities and art are provided by theme camps? If so, wouldn't everyone that isn't a member of a theme camp be a tourist there to enjoy but not to contribute?

JK


OH I think you are VERY wrong with the idea that only theme camps make art, or only theme camps give things to the community.


I'm not a theme camp and I give away a ton of art. The trend to theme camps is doing away with the funky little back street camps, where a handful of people have a cool little idea and provide fun interactions at random intervals. Get the fuck off the Esp and the plazas and explore the back ways... people need to get theme camps out of their heads.
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