Off-Esplanade Sound Limits?

Off-Esplanade Sound Limits?

Postby Shaman-n-KK » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:33 am

Quick question for those in the know...I looked over the Placement Announce messages and JRS, too, but couldn't find it...

One of our campmates said she thought she remembered seeing something about camps off the Esplanade having limits on their sound/volume. We're on A, and have a DJ...I had assumed that's why we were placed where we were.

Anyone have experience with this? If it's the case, is it certain hours, or just up to whatever volume? Thanks in advance for your help!
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Postby Isotopia » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:07 pm

There are limits although they may have changed over the past few years.

I know that the Black Rock Rangers have several digital sound meters and used them on occasion.

Quite honestly, I think their purpose is more for illustrating to a camp that they're being complete dicks because if a Ranger shows up with one its because there have been multiple complaints by adjacent participants in which no resolution was forthcoming. It isn't like the Rangers walk around the city with one of these in tow just to rag on some camp.

So yeah, the bottom line is that any camp outside of the traditional 2:00 and 10:00 corridors that gets a visit from a Ranger with a sound meter already means that 1) someone is being an asshole and 2) there IS going to be some sort of resolution about the complaints.

Sorry I couldn't be any more specific as far as established sound levels go.
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Postby Pink Daddy » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:28 pm

The music camps aren't exclusive to the 10 & 2 streets. The Deep End was an infamous sound camp and was located on 9 & C, if I remember correctly. Anyone camping in a designated theme camp area should expect a dance floor nearby. Anyone who thinks that their camp should be quiet, should camp on the farthest street out.

That doesn't mean that there are extremes out there. The best method is to test out your setup. If after the first night you have people from multiple camps saying, "Hey, you were a little loud last night", then you should adjust either the direction your music is facing or the volume. But if you just have two turntables, a microphone, and a couple tops, you won't be bothering anyone...
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Postby slvrnmph » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:35 pm

From the 2010 survival guide:

SOUND: Large-scale Sound Art Zones are located along the streets of 2 and 10 o'clock at the far ends of our settlements.

Within the city the maximum power amplification is 300 watts, producing no more than 90 decibels at 20 feet. Be thoughtful of your neighbors. If a problem with sound levels continues after sufficient warning, the device or system will be disabled.

I think this should answer the question.
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:41 pm

Sounds like you're thinking of Hushville.
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Postby Boijoy » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:51 pm

I agree with the " be considerate of your neighbors" theory. No one appreciates your music as much as YOU, most times. & if someone does complaine please don't say, " but this is Burning Man dude !! ".
My earplugs only go up to 40 d's. I don't appreciate any music over that after midnight. :?
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Postby curiousgnate » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:55 pm

if you are on a you are fine. people don't get pissy til further back. just don't be one of those camps that blasts music all night with no one dancing to it. or on some ocasions anyone even playing it. if there aren't any revelers please turn it off after a while. but since you are gonna be cranking fabulous tunes and your dance floor will be filled, keep it going. its more about common sense then decibel meters
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Postby AntiM » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:24 pm

Hushville tries to be cool with music across the street. Normally someone will mozy over and ask that the speakers not be pointed at us (same with gennies), or that a reasonable volume or hours be negotiated. There's no one official in our village.

Just don't be a dick. A dick blares their music when there is no audience. A dick asks for the music to be off when a crowd is digging it. Goes both ways.

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Unless you're OED, then it comes naturally.

Drums can be as annoying as amplified music in camping areas.
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Postby Boijoy » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:29 pm

& I don't think the street address matters. as far as I know "A" is not a large sound area. there are some pretty "chill" camps located there. Though, I don't think the placers would put a DJ dance camp next to a "spiritual healing" camp or the like. Thats why the placement questionnaire asks those questions.
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Postby Fire_Moose » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:37 pm

AntiM wrote:Hushville tries to be cool with music across the street. Normally someone will mozy over and ask that the speakers not be pointed at us (same with gennies), or that a reasonable volume or hours be negotiated. There's no one official in our village.


I was told that I could listen to the radio at a reasonable volume from nine to eleven, I told Bill that if Sandra is going to listen to her headphones while she's filing then I should be able to listen to the radio while I'm collating so I don't see why I should have to turn down the radio because I enjoy listening at a reasonable volume from nine to eleven.
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Postby Token » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:39 pm

BTW, 90db at 20 feet is pretty fucking loud.

Usually sound is measured at 1m or ~3 ft.
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Postby geekster » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:45 pm

Music is one aspect of a camp's culture that seeps beyond the camp's borders. When you are playing some really weird stuff that nobody is dancing to and you figure you should turn it up because if more people heard it, you would attract people to dance to it and if you do that for about 30 minutes and still nobody is dancing to it ... it's clue bat time.

Bad music played loudly is about like someone throwing a dead skunk into a burn barrel.
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Postby dragonfly Jafe » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:49 pm

slvrnmph wrote:From the 2010 survival guide:

SOUND: Large-scale Sound Art Zones are located along the streets of 2 and 10 o'clock at the far ends of our settlements.

Within the city the maximum power amplification is 300 watts, producing no more than 90 decibels at 20 feet. Be thoughtful of your neighbors. If a problem with sound levels continues after sufficient warning, the device or system will be disabled.

I think this should answer the question.


None of this matters as long as no one complains (talk to your neighbors up front and establish relations and a grievance process). However, if someone comes up to your camps and complains (however good or bad) it really is in your best interests to reach a compromise. If you ignore them / brush them off, they will do one of the following;

1) go complain to a Ranger (once Ranger is told you told them to F$ck off, things tend to escalate. If they have not previously tried talking to you directly, the Rangers generally refuse to intervene until this step is tried first - they have too much other stuff to do...)

2) destroy your sound system (this is illegal, but does happen, and offenders are rarely caught.)

3) turn your camp in for drug offenses (real or not). Do you really want the attention?

The Rangers, if they come to your camp, are generally one step away from LEGALLY disabling your sound system for the duration of the event, or ejecting you and/or your entire camp. So if the Rangers show up about your sound, it is REALLY time to listen and compromise.

bottom line, don't be a Dick (unless you have one eye)
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Postby SnowBlind » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:54 pm

Fire_Moose wrote:I was told that I could listen to the radio at a reasonable volume from nine to eleven, I told Bill that if Sandra is going to listen to her headphones while she's filing then I should be able to listen to the radio while I'm collating so I don't see why I should have to turn down the radio because I enjoy listening at a reasonable volume from nine to eleven.


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Postby Shaman-n-KK » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:48 pm

Thanks so much for all the input. That's exactly what I needed to know...'cuz we're not dicks, we want to be good neighbors. Appreciate you good folks sharing the guidelines!
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Postby Boijoy » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:20 pm

yer welcome Shaman. If you were a dick you probably wouldn't have asked in the first place. Where are ya camped on "Athens"?
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Postby justfred » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:57 pm

dragonfly Jafe wrote:2) destroy your sound system (this is illegal, but does happen, and offenders are rarely caught.)


It's easier, more effective, and a lot more expensive (i.e. more likely for the severely annoyed neighbor) to go after the generator.
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Postby curiousgnate » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:08 pm

you sound like you understand. don't be a dick, and respect your neighbors, and expect the same of them. if there are problems contact a ranger. have a great burn that is all.
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Postby Elliot » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:32 pm

:D
It's been a long time since last time, so I'm again going to quote -- as best I remember -- this fabulous line about recorded/amplified music. (Sure wish I could give proper credit.)

"Music needs to be loud enough that all the listeners can hear it well. Any louder is just the DJ waving his dick."
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Postby Isotopia » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:40 pm

Anyone who thinks that their camp should be quiet, should camp on the farthest street out.


Spoken like a typical entitled fucking hipster.
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Postby Elorrum » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:29 pm

I want to say "thanks for asking." Good element of good neighboring.
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Postby dnightshade » Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:15 pm

Don't most sound camps not on 10 and 2 end at an earlier time? I seem to remember a bunch ending around 2-3am last year.
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Postby geekster » Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:48 pm

There is going to be loud shit going on 24x7. If you are in a place like Hushville, it will be somewhat quieter but the ground will still shake from the base at 10 and 2.

There is no escaping it. I wonder if you can hear Burning Man from Gerlach.
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Postby AntiM » Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:25 pm

Even in Hushville, we have earplugs. Although the ground doesn't seem to shake as much as it used to do. I may be used to it. That, and sleeping in a semi when MyLarry did reefer loads, the genny would go off and on a lot, right behind the bunk, maybe I got used to it.
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Postby Token » Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:48 pm

AntiM wrote:Although the ground doesn't seem to shake as much as it used to do.


I took that to a totally different place ...

:ducks for cover:
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Postby geekster » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:47 pm

Base .... of course I meant TROUT.
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Postby AntiM » Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:28 am

Token wrote:
AntiM wrote:Although the ground doesn't seem to shake as much as it used to do.


I took that to a totally different place ...

:ducks for cover:


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Postby Dr. Pyro » Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:28 am

Hushville looks like it's adjacent to Barbie Death Village. What could possibly go wrong?
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Postby The Chinese » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:28 pm

Token wrote:BTW, 90db at 20 feet is pretty fucking loud.

Usually sound is measured at 1m or ~3 ft.


I took this to be 90dB at the border of our camp... but yes it's still fairly loud.

Opulent Temple Run at about 115dB (that's a guess, but an educated one, as I am a sound Person by trade). It's almost painful. I try to get Transmorphagon to 105dB ont eh Dance Floor... that's a rasonable volume, whcih puts us at about 95-98dB at our front doorstep and 90 at the rear. We have gotten complaints only one time, from a Lesbian Tantric Meditation camp that somehow got put right across the street (this was the first year of the "Ring Road").

We state right in our App that we bring a live music stage, but have not wanted to be in the LSSA, because we can't compete with the 50,000 watt Rigs out there.

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Postby Lassen Forge » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:43 pm

Wow, it used to be 400 watts - seems like they've knocked it down a bit.

I have also, um, seen, uh, yeah, camps take guerilla action against a camp that was violating a modicum of decency... I mean, yeah, we're at BRC and we know it's fracking loud, and not saying it's the "right" thing to do... ... but you got someone running a dance floor in the middle of the city saying "I'm running 10000 watts and nobody's gonna tell me to turn it down" rather belligerantly - even AFTER the ranger sound team shows up, and they act all contrite and as soon as they're gone, back to 11...

Yep. Seen it happen.

Problem is, I've ALSO seen camps run lesser wattage and, using a bit of acoustic engineering, get righteously loud. Believe it or not, I don't have a problem with them (of course, they're usually done right so the sound goes *into*, not *out of* the camp)... so it can be done. Sadly, some (not all, but some) run hi output because they're too lazy to do it right.

My 2¢...
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