biking to the burn/early arrival

Postby pinemom » Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:55 pm

Yeas, its legal for me to stick my hand in a 100 mph windmill too...but do you see me doing that.


If my kid, friend or family member suggested biking to BM, I would beat the shit out of them until they realized how stupidly dangerous it is for everyone concerned.


Ok...senerio...biker on 447 at twilight, concidering the median age for attendee's is 45, I dont know bout the rest of ya's but twilight has a funny way of screwing with your vision.
I come up over the hill with my 19ft truck towing my 36 foot trailer and waa laa theres a biker, I have 4 feet to stop even at my measley 35 mph hillside traveling speed... so 55ft, weighing in around 15,000 lbs.
This kinda morphs into more of a stop, drop and roll situation...now killing ME, the Bicyclist, and all 7+ of my camp mates that our behind me in our caravan. and causing even more back up to a dreadful road.


why is it bad to say DONT DO IT!
and why must everyone feel that this nixon is getting his rights taken away...he can bike anywhere but we just ask not there at that time of year!
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Postby oneeyeddick » Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:55 pm

But I really am a Dick.

Really, I am.
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Postby pinemom » Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:03 pm

Fucking Dick!
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Postby Eric » Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:15 pm

oneeyeddick wrote:it always seems to be the ones from California......hmmmm...?


Hey! Don't be lumping me in with them!

*sheesh*
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Postby AntiM » Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:29 pm

Just because something is legal does not make it a right or a good idea. And the laws of physics don't care about Nevada state law. Especially, a state law which is poorly thought through. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Inconvenienced? We aren't talking a driver or two, we're talking dozens, hundreds, maybe thousands. Each vehicle a potential accident waiting to happen.

A young mother died yesterday in Utah. She was biking in a bike lane with a group of friends. Two cars collided nearby, one spun out of control and hit her. The driver had no control after being struck by the other vehicle. This was on a wide road with bike lanes. Will it be any consolation she did everything right? She was in the wrong place at the wrong time. If it can happen in a place where biking is normally safe, what of 447 at peak times? A cyclist who knowingly chooses 447 at a bad time may be within the law, but still can die through an accident they have nothing to do with. The law could not shield that biker from a mass of hurtling steel. This should be a factor in any decision to bike such a hazardous road.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:05 pm

oneeyeddick wrote:What is "core hostility"?

Isn't it something to do with the China Syndrome?

Or maybe the Manchurian Candidate.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:07 pm

Eric wrote:
oneeyeddick wrote:it always seems to be the ones from California......hmmmm...?


Hey! Don't be lumping me in with them!

*sheesh*

I blame critical mass. I gotta say that the number of bicyclists who take there bikes on bart during those times when bikes are explicetly forbidden renews my faith in the pump that must have been put up their asses at the sporting goods store.
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Postby gyre » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:20 pm

When is it forbidden?
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Postby Isotopia » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:37 pm

By advocating and promising hitting and murdering bicyclists you not only violate terms of service and are committing a personal attack, you're advocating a felony, which is a crime and unethical and immoral.


Cheesus fuck, what a spineless, pussified post.

Quick! Call Code Pink and the Women in Black to set up a protest.

Sounds like another whiney Critical Mass hipster who gets his tit in a wringer because he rides recklessly in the herd and then wonders why he got hit in the Mission because he was driving down the middle of the street.

Well, you know what they say....










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it has been done

Postby lemur » Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:41 pm

Sheesh you folks seem fragile!

at least one person rode their bike to burning man going north up 447.

i saw them... they did fine.

after the event i ended up seeing the photos of them arriving in BRC, looks happy to me.

see for yourself:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/zorkmagazine/2805161420/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/zorkmagazine/2805161026/

Be responsible driving, apparently in 2008 everyone who this rider encountered was able to avoid killing her.


edit: oh yeah, i was riding in a big bus when i saw the rider (twice, one at full 447 speed and once a while later while near gerlach when traffic picked up) there was enough room for the rider on the road, enough for her to wave at the people hanging out the windows taking pictures.
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Postby AntiM » Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:48 pm

*bangs head on the keyboard*

That is it. I quit.
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Postby Risky » Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:58 pm

I thought this thread was locked?
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Postby Isotopia » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:13 pm

I thought this thread was locked?


No one's used 'nazi' in a sentence yet.
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Postby oneeyeddick » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:22 pm

AntiM wrote:*bangs head on the keyboard*

That is it. I quit.


might as well put it back up now, huh ?

(just joking but not really)
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Postby capjbadger » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:03 pm

Eric wrote:
oneeyeddick wrote:it always seems to be the ones from California......hmmmm...?


Hey! Don't be lumping me in with them!

*sheesh*

A-fucking-men. :)

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Postby Eric » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 pm

gyre wrote:When is it forbidden?


From BART's website:

COMMUTE HOURS

(Weekdays approximately 7:05 to 8:50 am and 4:25 to 6:45 pm.)

* During morning commute hours, bikes are allowed in the Embarcadero Station only for trips to the East Bay (as indicated by the Fares and Schedules brochure).
* During evening commute hours, bicyclists traveling from the East Bay must exit at the Embarcadero Station (as indicated by the Fares and Schedules brochure).
* Bikes cannot enter or exit 12th and 19th Street Oakland Stations on weekdays between 6:56 - 8:50 am and 4:35 - 6:40 pm. (as indicated by the Fares and Schedules brochure).
* Folded bikes are allowed on the trains at all times. During commute hours, folding bikes must be folded before entering the paid area at the Embarcadero, Montgomery, Powell, and Civic Center San Francisco Stations, and the 12th and 19th Street Oakland Stations. At all other stations, they may be folded on the platform, but must be folded before boarding a train.
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Postby gyre » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:36 pm

Well that sucks.
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Re: it has been done

Postby goathead » Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:27 pm

lemur wrote:Sheesh you folks seem fragile!


Maybe it's just that for we I have seen way toa many accidents on 447.
Head on in 01? a memeber of the Hookia Dome camp. 02 couple killed about mile marker 67, same year? A woman killed at Marble Bluff passenger on a motorcycle, about 03 about mile marker 38, guy lost his arm, friend fell asleep driving about mm 65, ran off road and died. I could go on.

Almost every year I have the hell scared out of me by a bike rider(s), heavy traffic, cresting a hill, blind curve, dumb fuckers riding at night.

I would rather see people make it to Burning Man, then wind up as blood spots on the hwy.

Hell if they had a gun to their head, I would also ask them to put it down.
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Postby gyre » Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:36 am

Last year I talked to a guy with a wild pile in the back of his truck.
He was coming around a curve and the camper caught the wind and blew out of the back of the truck and over a cliff.

I think he felt lucky he didn't go with it.

Things can happen fast out there.
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Postby goathead » Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:50 am

Bad things happen real fast.
The head on, the guy was towing a trailer, had a real nasty west wind that day. the trailer started to sway on him and before he knew it he was in the other lane and head on. If you look you can still see the scorch marks on the pavement from the fire at mm 53. Wonder if his brother still comes out? I should look him up.

There are very few second chances on Hwy 447.
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Re: it has been done

Postby lemur » Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:34 am

goathead wrote:
lemur wrote:Sheesh you folks seem fragile!


Maybe it's just that for we I have seen way to many accidents on 447.


..its always sad to see them, i have seen plenty myself on 447 and its never been a good thing... lots of people get hurt and they are sometimes so close

i dont want people thinking danger on the roads in there is small.. i just was not expecting so many people to say to not do it instead of to just tell them how dangerous it is, even for people in a car.

i just wanted to be showing someone did it safely and maybe a pic was good for the forum searches in the future

hopefully everybody tries the best they can to be safe on 447, no matter what stuff happens out there..someone can get hurt or worse, without long warning times. and it can a lot more often with all of the differently packed trailers and big vehicles people might not be used to driving.

it has to take a lot of skill for a bike rider to do it and be safe for the other people with them on the road.. average people should not do it. the one i showed took the bike 2000 miles in the trip. thats nearly as long as the tour de france. if you cant do that you probably should not be riding a bike to burning man.....
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huh?

Postby epic » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:37 pm

No idea what Code Pink or the Women in Black are and I don't ride critical mass. Is that your way of attempting to shut down people who best you in an argument? Do any of you ever ride bikes on the roads? Not just a beach cruiser at 5 mph for a mile on the playa once a year? I didn't think so.
You can thank every cyclist you see for offsetting your carbon emissions and saving the gas that your RV/truck is burning at a rate of 5 miles per gallon. Why is the US in Iraq? To feed your vehicles.
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it always seems to be the ones from California

Postby epic » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:52 pm

"it always seems to be the ones from California"
75% of the people at BM are from Cali. And 75% of those Californians are originally from outside of Cali. I'm ENTITLED to share the road with people who know how to drive safely at all times and on all roads.
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Postby Thecatman » Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:39 pm

Many of these bicyclers are loaded...meaning they have money...$7,000 bikes, special clothing with sponsers etc.
So why can't they buy property and build their own (training) roads as opposed to co-habitating with cars and trucks? I see these people all the time on Gieger grade. I admire their abilities but common sense should prevail.
One was killed last summer on the truck route to Virginia City (SR 341) while going down the hill, crossed into the north bound (up-hill) lane on a blind left curve was hit by a Toyota pick up. Sparsley traveled road so the only living witness was the driver. Physical evidense proved the biker was at fault.
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Re: huh?

Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:14 pm

epic wrote: Do any of you ever ride bikes on the roads?

...
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Many of these bicyclers are loaded...meaning they have money

Postby epic » Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:35 pm

Many of these bicyclers are loaded...meaning they have money...$7,000 bikes, special clothing with sponsers etc.


No most of them don't own $7,000 bikes and don't have sponsors. Those are professional racers.
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Postby Isotopia » Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:52 pm

Why is the US in Iraq? To feed your vehicles.


Oh, here we go with the classic us/them argument.

As if you were completely off the fucking fossil fuel grid - you smarmy, sanctimonious little hypocrite.
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Re: it always seems to be the ones from California

Postby Eric » Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:05 pm

epic wrote:I'm ENTITLED to share the road with people who know how to drive safely at all times and on all roads.


Just because you have the right to share the road doesn't mean the everyone is going to drive "safely at all times and on all roads". If that was true then there never would be any vehicular accidents- ever- except due to "acts of nature". We all know this isn't true.

Pedestrians are entitled not to be killed or injured by cars when using roads & sidewalks legally, but how many are? Last number I could find (2008) was over 64,000 injured, 4,000+ killed that year alone. They were "entitled" to use the roads, fat lot of good it did them when a crappy or distracted driver came along.

You seem to be unable to notice the fact that most of the posts here are trying to keep the OP alive, not trying to take away his biking rights.

447 is a dangerous road, and I have seen the remains of an accident every single year I've gone on it to Burning Man.

You'll probably read this post as an attack too. Whatever.
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Postby Kinetik V » Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:35 pm

As a transportation activist this thread has me torn. Part of me says riding a bike on 447 is borderline insanity. The other part of me says that bikes have the right to use any taxpayer funded roadway as long as it's not an Interstate highway, and there's notable exceptions for that which goes beyond the scope of this post.

I would like to encourage reading of Nevada's Drivers License Handbook. Here's the link:
http://www.dmvstat.com/pdfforms/dlbook.pdf

Since the handbook is searchable I recommend two search terms. One is "Basic Rule" and the other is of course "Bicycle".

Now I'm no lawyer and don't claim to know the intricate details of Nevada law but from what I read my interpretation is that cyclist has as much right to be on 447 as anyone else. If you hit them you essentially violated the basic rule and drove too fast for conditions. On and on it goes....

I'll close this post with a thought. Most of 447 is marked as Open Range. Replace the cyclist with a big old cow. She's cold. 447's pavement is warm. Guess where she's going to go to feel good? She doesn't care if you're pulling the Taj Mahal of trailers or anything else. If you travel 447 you need to be prepared to top a grade and be ready to deal with her should she decide that her hot spot is right over the crest of the hill. And if you hit her...that will be $500 minimum. And cattlemen take the loss of even one cow very seriously. So if you drive 447 you have a duty...yes a duty to drive it safely. If you can't do that then it's time to surrender your license.
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Postby ygmir » Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:19 pm

seems there's some disconnect her ,

between people saying:

don't do it, you might get killed, I'd rather see you not there and alive, it's a very dangerous road, for many reasons, right and wrong.

and,

people hearing:

you can't ride there, I won't allow it, it's against the (or my) rules, and, I'll run you down, if you do...........


there is a difference...........
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