Coming soon to a Playa near you!

Coming soon to a Playa near you!

Postby CapSmashy » Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:41 pm

The Megaton Bar!

Image

Irradiating the masses one drink at a time by slowly lumbering across the Playawasteland and dispensing ice cold shots of Megabomb. And if the R&D test victim weasels get it all worked out, back of the ticket libations for Burn Night, hot, fresh and tasty Flaming Megabombs served up Manside.

Construction will begin sometime after New Years with updates to follow. :D
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Postby jkisha » Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:16 pm

That should be great! I'll keep my eye out for it.

JK
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Postby CapSmashy » Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:06 am

The mighty Zulegoona has looked down from his lofty perch on high and spied our little piece of Megaton Heaven and blessed us with some seriously kick ass artwork. No really.

Image
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Postby LeChatNoir » Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:09 pm

I like the sound of this.

I'll bring the Geiger counter.
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Postby CapSmashy » Thu Dec 25, 2008 5:47 pm

I am planning on incorporating some steampunk elements into the design as well.

The bomb halves will be built utilizing a basic plywood rib structure for attaching the skin to. At this point, I am considering skinning the surface in horizontal rows of something simple like roof flashing and attaching vertical banding to "seal" them together. I am thinking this would give it the appearance of having been fabricated out of sheet metal. Detail work would include rivet heads, etc. to bring the steampunky elements into the design.

I'd like to utilize shade fabric for the top skin for weight and sun considerations, but I have a feeling it would be hard to match the base half in terms of overall color and "feel".

Oh, the base vehicles is a 79 postal jeep. Mechanical upgrades to it will include a 4 core radiator and the biggest high volume electric fan set up I can cram down in front of it. Probably a little overkill, but I also plan to add an oil and tranny cooler. I figure hedge all my bets before I leave with all the inexpensive things I can bolt on to help it run cooler on the primary mechanical systems.
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Postby Sail Man » Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:03 pm

Ohhh, I like the look of that artwork :D Good job Zule.

Cant wait to see it on the playa.
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Postby gyre » Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:37 pm

CapSmashy wrote:I am planning on incorporating some steampunk elements into the design as well.

The bomb halves will be built utilizing a basic plywood rib structure for attaching the skin to. At this point, I am considering skinning the surface in horizontal rows of something simple like roof flashing and attaching vertical banding to "seal" them together. I am thinking this would give it the appearance of having been fabricated out of sheet metal. Detail work would include rivet heads, etc. to bring the steampunky elements into the design.

I'd like to utilize shade fabric for the top skin for weight and sun considerations, but I have a feeling it would be hard to match the base half in terms of overall color and "feel".

Oh, the base vehicles is a 79 postal jeep. Mechanical upgrades to it will include a 4 core radiator and the biggest high volume electric fan set up I can cram down in front of it. Probably a little overkill, but I also plan to add an oil and tranny cooler. I figure hedge all my bets before I leave with all the inexpensive things I can bolt on to help it run cooler on the primary mechanical systems.

If you are only using it at 5 mph, you should tailor the system to that.
A 4 core radiator may be too thick for maximum cooling at slower speeds.
There are diminishing returns.
This is why they are using one and two core aluminum radiators now.
I use griffin.
Beware of cheapos.

First maximize your airflow.
If the fan is mechanical, get an aggressive fan blade.
If you use a flexblade, get a very deep one and don't cheap out.
Failures can be catastrophic and dangerous.
If you think you need more, add electric fans as pullers first and pushers last.
Put control switches on them, and/or thermostats.
Spal is good, but cheap ones are available in yards.
They vary a lot in noise.
Too much cooling at night will reduce your efficiency.

A direct fan will flow more than an electric.

Consider something like Evans fluid instead of water and antifreeze.
If using water, always use distilled.

Unconventional techniques may work in your case, like extra radiators, passive cooling arrangements and auxiliary heaters for cooling the engine.

Go to synthetic oil like redline and don't use a cooler unless needed.
The most conservative step is a cooler plate on the oil filter point.

If you're talking automatic, a cooler is always a good idea for the transmission.
Put it after the radiator cooling line and consider whether it is large enough to need a thermostat.

Put synthetic fluid in your trans and rear end.
It may be a good idea to change it at least once before the playa to clean it out, in both.
I'm guessing this isn't a highly maintained jeep.
I use redline for these.
I've heard good things about amsoil for auto trans fluid.

Consider a gauge or sensor package.
Quality varies a lot.
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Postby CapSmashy » Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:03 pm

The jeep itself has about 500 miles on a fresh rebuild for the engine and transmission. Brakes were rebuilt on all 4 corners at the same time. I run Mobil 1 in everything I drive.

The rear is the only thing I do not have a maintenance history on, but being a postal jeep it does have the oversize rear end and heavy leaf spring suspension front and back. The factotry rear on the DJ's was the Dana 44 and its a freakin beast and pretty bullet proof.

It also has the original radiator in it so no telling what kind of condition the internals are in. After a little research, a 2 core aluminum will probably do just fine, but I am sticking to my electric fans. :)


And living in Texas, it will get a lot of hot temperature field testing at the 5mph creep so I can make any tweaks as needed to the cooling system.
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Postby gyre » Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:45 pm

Sounds pretty thorough.
Are you going to use it for general use?
The only advantage to electric fans is being able to turn them off without a clutch.
Unless you're going to spend enough time on the freeway to justify the loss in cooling with electric fans, it isn't a good choice.
You cannot get the same airflow with electrics.

I often have radiators boiled out and keep using them.
If you have a shop that does this, it might be an option.
The good aluminum radiators are great though.
Often a large single core is all that is recommended.
You probably can't get enough flow with electric for too thick a core.
Check with the company engineers.

Nothing wrong with add on electric fans to increase flow when needed.
I think keeping airflow up is your real priority at playa speeds, if you are concerned about heat.

Is it a V8 or smaller?

Is it for playa only?


The cheapest high flow option.
http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html/race-fans.html
Last time I looked speedway had the best price.
An oem grade flex fan in the deep style will cost around $100 minimum.
I forget who does the ford fans, but they are around.
The good ones are braced and riveted, with a very deep pitch.
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Postby CapSmashy » Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:25 am

Its a straight 6, the venerable 232. Once the the project gets under way it will definately be a special use vehicle only.

I will begrudgingly concede the point on the electric fans after reading up on some 4x4 forums. And the nice fact that the flex fans are under $35


One other thing I considered this morning is that I can incorporate a heat stack or two from the engine bay to vent hot air above the vehicle. Pop in a large case fan at the top to provide draw. It may not help much, but I figure the more air moving around the engine, the better.
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Postby gyre » Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:59 am

There is one other advantage to electric fans.
That is that they can be attached directly to the cowl and can have tighter tolerances.
You may be able to fine tune your arrangement, though often they are quite good oem.
Lessening the gap improves airflow.
If all else fails, it is one more approach available.
An auxiliary fan can be added just to the trans cooler if needed too.
If you use a pusher fan, be sure it's one that's reversible.

If the noise doesn't bother you, you could put vents in the hood or just pop the hood open.
Be careful of aerodynamics though.
Airflow around the hood is often counterintuitive.

I have naca ducts in my hood which appear to be intakes, but since they aren't sealed, act as vents when stopped.
With any movement. the area become pressurized and they cease to exhaust.
They may actually be reducing radiator airflow somewhat.
Due to the streamlined nose, I have to run a fan at most lower speeds to get enough cooling, as air lifts and flows over the grille.

Ducting air behind the radiator for maximum engine cooling may be a good approach.
Normally front ducting would be important, but beyond making sure there is no interaction between the front and back air, I doubt it makes as much difference at 5 mph as it normally would.

There are a lot of flex fans.
Most are quite shallow.
The deeper ones have a blade perpendicular at rest at the tips.
Use the deepest possible blades with 6 or 7 blades.
The oem quality fans have double reinforcement and very deep pitch and are usa made.
$150 most places for a full size and $80 was the best price I found a few years ago.
There is a big difference in quality on those and since the consequences are so severe with failure, not a place to scrimp.

But the fixed blades flow more and are cheaper.
Just get the most aggressive ones.
The last one I got was about 5 inches deep.

I don't think you'll have any trouble with cooling.

How much weight do you anticipate?


If you don't get a new radiator with larger tanks, you can add capacity by adding a tank to the system.
Besides adding capacity, it can be cooling by radiance from the tank.
It's best to add it to the intake part of the engine, inline from the radiator.
This will give you extra cool fluid, especially useful on startup from a stop.

There may be aluminum finned pans for the oil.
I'm sure there are for the trans and rear.
Canton can make larger capacity oil pans, if you think you need that.
An accusump adds capacity without causing overcooling issues and prelubes the engine on startup.
Taking too long to warm up oil, or worse, not ever getting warm enough, is almost as bad as overheating.


Here's a spal electric fan.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Spal-Curv ... ,1783.html
No brand listed but this is a high flow fan.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Heavy-Dut ... ,1846.html
The better flexfans should have a brace on the blade that goes full length on the blade.
There are normally staggered rivets too.
This one looks the same except for those missing parts of the design.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Chrome-an ... x-Fan-15,3 02.html
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Postby CapSmashy » Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:09 am

Yeah, the cooling issue is the easier part of the process to manage and since we will not be hot here for several months, I have a while to wait on tweaking that process. My more immediate concern is getting down to the nuts and bolts of design for the DMV application.

Weight? No idea at this point. The factory specs on the postal jeeps lists the payload, including driver, out at 700lbs. I'll be removing several hundred pounds of body from the jeep so I should not really hit any issues on overloading the jeep itself. And since it will never need to be driven over 20mph at the most (local art car stuff), it should be fine even if we do overload it a little bit.

I'm still crunching ideas for the framework and skinning. I've been working with 1/8" luan quite a bit lately on another project and it definately has the flexibility and rigidity necessary, but weight becomes a factor considering we are looking at a 12 to 14 foot long and 12 or so feet high (which is split in half with the bar nestled in between the halves) bomb structure. I'm turning my brother loose with the schematics since him being a Mechanical Engineer, he has access to and the knowledge of working with all kinds of technical drawing software for cranking out a blueprint to make the curves nice and pretty.

I've also got a call in to a crazy welder friend to start picking his brain on frame ideas and trade outs for labor. I know I can build the entire framework out of wood, but that starts to get real heavy, real fast. A skeleton frame built of flat stock would give it the structural rigidity with the significant weight savings over building ribs out of wood. Steel framing would also facilitate being able to make the pieces modular to make the 2000 mile trip out there with it on a trailer easier if necessary.
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Postby gyre » Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:49 am

There are different areas to deal with in increasing cargo capacity.
Probably the only one you'll be dealing with is the ability to take vertical load, if you're careful about taking off from a stop with a load.
There is surely plenty of info about doing this and the weak points of this vehicle.

Make sure you pay attention to stability issues, even at slow speeds.
IPD and some other places can do custom antisway bars for heavy loads.
Springs and shocks might be adequate though, at the very slow speeds.
Don't forget wind loads.

A shop that beefs up transmissions changes lubrication so that they lubricate all the time.
Normally they don't lubricate when stopped.
They say this is the first issue they deal with, though all have some defect or other.

Aircraft Spruce's catalog has a lot of information about lightweight construction and materials.
It might be helpful.
It's always a balancing act between construction ease, cost and weight.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/
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Postby CapSmashy » Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:17 am

I think the shape will lend itself to handling the wind load without too many issues. All the major surfaces will be rounded and relatively aerodynamic and the center section will be left wide open as a wind pass through. The only thing that might have real issues will be the tail section as it will have flat surfaces.
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Postby gyre » Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:36 am

Can you hinge and spring load the tail?
Just a thought.
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Postby CapSmashy » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:11 am

That's a possibility. It will probably already be hinged to one side or the other as our entrance into the bomb.
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Postby Fried_Eagle_Mind » Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:48 am

very fallout-esque!
I love it, and will hop on if I see it next year (after kindly asking of coarse)
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