Arrests and Crime stats?

Postby unjonharley » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:11 pm

J.C. wrote:
However, if rumors of private land acquisition persist, maybe we won't have these problems to worry about in the future. ;)


A small bike rally (4-500) I went to on private land still got screwing by the law.. The cops coud not come on the land without reason.. So they called in forces from other areas and rode the hell out of the people on the roads in..

I was stopped for one of eight tail lights not working.. Some of the local farmer had to tell them "go fuck thereself".. There were so many cops they may even have been stopping one another.. Under cover cops lost there cover in no time.. For the police it was a cluster f.. For us it was a pain in the ass..
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Postby J.C. » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:12 pm

hsdavis wrote:I traveled across the country with my art car and did not have any problems with police along the way. Once in BM, I had 6 separate encounters with police. None were specific, just fishing for something illegal. I was never accused of anything and never charged with anything. I can only attribute this to these poor bastards being bored out of their minds the other 51 weeks of the year. They finally get to be "the authority" and puff out their chests. I had no drugs and did absolutely nothing wrong and still these assholes were giving me a hard time and detaining me while they tried to figure out if I was in trouble. Just catch their eye and you will see.
This was probably the biggest turn off this year was dealing with the LEOs. It will probably be the reason that I don't return next year. I have documented all the details with BMORG, but they are stuck just like we are. Too much money for these guys to make to give up on it and once they have several arrests under their belts, it only justifies their existance and numbers.


Here's something to consider. The BLM gathers X # of people from each state to patrol this Event. So, if Iowa has a request for 5 rangers, and only 3 step up, that means that 2 BLM rangers DON'T want to be sweating their butts off in the desert. How do you suppose they might respond? And match this up with the likelyhood that there are DOZENS of 1st time BLM folk on the playa, how do you suppose THOSE green peeps might respond??? Pretty gung ho I'D imagine! Which is traditionally the experience. (I've heard that some of the BLM are actually Dept. of Homeland Sec. folks on their way up, as oposed to the hippies one would expect normally filling those positions, so you can see what the result might be, especially if you've ever seen JESUS CAMP.)

Anyway, I think I'm done responding on this L.E. thread. Simply be happy the rangers are stepping up and doing what they do, and things might be fine for a while. Otherwise we might ALL have to be heading off to a beach in Chile.

And F*@k you Feds while I'm at it.
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Postby Rat Bastard » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:25 am

I got to hang out on the BIG mutant duck. I was told that they were just raided before I arrived. Early in the morning. I guess a bunch of cops just swarmed and surrounded it. Go figure, the amount of candy on that thing...

When I saw LEO, I walked or drove the other way. I waved to a couple earlier in the week but as they grew into stick-in-the-ass gerks I gave up by the end of the week.

How is LEO protecting the event when most of their time is spent arresting people for recreational drugs? They should be arresting those smelly hippies blessing everything with sage. That would make BM a safer place to be!
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Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:16 pm

J.C. wrote:However, if rumors of private land acquisition persist, maybe we won't have these problems to worry about in the future.
I don't understand how a rumor could protect us from anything.
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LEO Encounters

Postby porterico » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:04 pm

Because of the increased empahsis this year on policing the police I went into the event with the best of intentions and hoping that by talking to LE my own little smoothing out of space would help. I talked to every single law enforcement officer I came across for the first few days of the event in a very friendly way... asked them how they were doing, if they were having fun, what the strangest thing they had seen was, if they had been to burningman before (all were virgins) and mostly BLM. By about thursday I was hearing all the rumors of illegal searches and I promised myself to have a "real" conversation with the next officers I came across. I talked to a BLM shift lead, and I told them that the burners would be uniting to defend themselves agains the mistreatment and misuse of authority and actual law breaking and entrapment that were beginning to become pervasive within the event. The officers reassured me of their good intentions, clarified one particular story that I related to them of an illegal search... they actually explained the story in such a way that made me have to side with them... basically someone had been pulled over for having a broken tail light... the narc dog hit on the vehicle, and then the vehicle was searched... so this was different from the story that was explained to me by a fellow burner, but was obviously the same case. The officers then proceeded to do a "meet and greet" in my neighborhood... whatever that entailed... they didn't come up to my camp anymore, but one of my campmates approached them when they were on the way back to their vehicle about 15 minutes later and they completely brushed her off. I went into the year with the best of intentions toward law enforcement, and had those good intentions ground into the playa by their boot it seems, so basically my stance now is watch your back, be safe as all hell, and don't trust any government agent out there no matter what... because they obviously have some agenda that they are not sharing and it goes way beyond "enforcing the law". Don't sell or trade drugs if that's what you are into, if you want to have a cheech and chong camp... I'd suggest planning out a perimeter team... Infiltration by the man... at burningman... pretty funny... I can think of a bunch of ways to keep the cops out of your camp... how about a strip search on the way in... hehe... or another cool service to burners by burners may be producing something along the lines of a I'm not a LE officer badge within your own burner communities... and passing them out pre event... if you don't have a badge... you are gonna have to earn one to party with me type philosophy... so much mistrust, but seriously... how can we better police the police, and completely cripple their unwanted behaviour, while preserving their needed role to protect people from the real possibility of violent and non victimless crime on the playa... goddamn rant... guess its better to be pissed off than pissed on.

All the best for '08
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Postby gyre » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:23 am

I'm guessing everyone is already familiar with the safety tent approach?
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Postby wedeliver » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:08 am

unjonharley wrote:Dan, you know damn well the storys we get are pot headed slanted.. we never get the laws side..

People get a couple of things into your head..

It IS illegal to use drugs..

If your an addict and can't live without a fix, Do not take your drugs on the road to Burning Man..
Stay the fuck home..

If you not an addict and think Burning Man is a drug play ground Stay the fuck home

The law at Burning Man has had a lot of practice nailing illegal drugs.. They are getting better each year..

If you are arrested for illegal drugs stop your whining and take your lumps you whining bitch




Both Oregon and California have medical marijuana laws and some of those people who have a doctors recommendation go to Burning Man.
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Postby oFZo » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:43 am

BitterDan wrote:Rule of thumb is that if you wouldn't do it on the streets of your hometown don't do it on the streets of burning man. Some people just have to learn that the hard way.


That might be good advice for Americans, as a Dutchman I'd better not do so....
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Postby CapSmashy » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:40 pm

Do not count on private land eliminating the presence of law enforcement officers. Large organized events of 50k people still require permitting, even if they are on private land. Large crowd event permits require some type of security/enforcement capacity.

We had one prolonged interaction with a BLM Ranger on Thursday night and it was a hoot. Espresso Dude got a good frisking, Hot Shot the Robot got deputized and I got some happy blinkie BLM schwag. I think by week's end half of Terminal City had jr Ranger badges.

I am seeing a lot of the comments on here paralleling the remarks people make during Mardi Gras in New Orleans. Just as MG revelers think The French Quarter is some kind of lawless utopia of do whatever you want, it seems a lot of burners share a similar point of view once they reach the playa. Buying a ticket and camping in the desert for an arts festival is not an excuse to ignore the law. You did not get transported to some mythical land far, far away free of the "oppressive" shackles of The Man, you drove to a federally managed, godforsaken wasteland in the high desert of northern Nevada that is operating under the laws and regulations imposed upon it by the people that maintain the land as they pertain to an event of 50k. As Larry himself said, we are not a bunch of hippies in the desert, we are building a city and everything that goes with it from nothing.

As for getting busted at the event, that blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the person that got busted. Period. End of story. Anything else is useless crying and going for a ride on the WHAAAAAAAAAAAAmbalance. No one made you try to buy some illicit narcotics, no one made you try to sell/give away some illicit narcotics and no one made you stand there and consume illicit narcotics. You made the conscious and purposeful to engage in illegal behavior all by yourself. And if that involved accepting or giving narcotics to a stranger that turned out to be a cop, well boo fucking hoo sunshine. That would be a good example of why they call it "dope".
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Postby vertigo900 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:10 pm

gyre wrote:I'm guessing everyone is already familiar with the safety tent approach?


Probably a very good idea. I've seen some pretty loose smoking behaviors at a few camps and on the playa at night.

porterico wrote:I went into the year with the best of intentions toward law enforcement, and had those good intentions ground into the playa by their boot it seems, so basically my stance now is watch your back, be safe as all hell, and don't trust any government agent out there no matter what... because they obviously have some agenda that they are not sharing and it goes way beyond "enforcing the law". Don't sell or trade drugs if that's what you are into, if you want to have a cheech and chong camp... I'd suggest planning out a perimeter team...

but seriously... how can we better police the police, and completely cripple their unwanted behaviour, while preserving their needed role to protect people from the real possibility of violent and non victimless crime on the playa...
porterico


The irony of all this is how many LEOs are in BRC compared to how few are enforcing the traffic safety laws on exodus day. It's only a matter of time until we have another deadly accident on hwy 447. My guess it will be the open area between Empire and Pyramid Lake in front of the one of the first and busiest Indian Taco stands. One of the aholes high-speed passing 50 cars at a time will roll his/her car after someone swerves in front of them to go around an RV turning in. Others will not be able to stop in time and go into the ditches. Think your drive home takes a long time already? Wait until 447 is shut down for 8 hours due to some aggro sleep-deprived burner passing over-loaded RVs with his over-loaded trailer. There have been a lot of fatalities on that road, especially during the 3 days of Exodus. Please save that kind of driving for your own city and you can save your fellow burners lives. DON'T BECOME THE AHOLE BURNER THAT KILLS OTHER INNOCENT BURNERS!!!
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Postby This Woman » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:17 pm

I don't walk naked down the streets of my hometown, but I god damn will in BRC. I will walk down the streets of my hometown smokin a j, but I won't at Burning Man. Go figure.

I run a bar at BRC and have done so for over a decade. I don't drink much; I prefer marijuana. I don't light up in the bar, though I don't stop patrons from doing so. I have some experience with LE. For years, we always introduced ourselves, invited them to partake of our non-alcoholic beverages and were in general neighborly. In turn, they were friendly and forthright with us, and gave us lots of sheriff's stickers.

The last couple years we've given up - LE in general, is just too unfriendly and deceitful for us to want to even involve them in a conversation. In the past LEO loved to come out to Burning Man, and so many would request the job that they had to do drawings for the jobs available. They stopped that 3 or 4 years ago, from what I hear, and it shows on the playa.

There is not the same sense of danger for LE on the playa as in Babylon. We are fish in a barrel to them (and that includes you morally superior, non drug taking souls). Maybe they are doing training out there for just that reason. At any rate, whether it's because they are all virgins or rookies or both, it is bad news for BRC. And it they are training rookies out there, then it's bad news for Babylon too, since they are clearly training them to ignore real crime for revenue producing victimless crimes.

For all of those who argue that they don't do drugs so they don't have anything to worry about - your naivete is heartbreaking to those of us who have experienced or witnessed LE and courts destroy days, weeks or entire lives of innocent people. It happens...a lot...and at Burning Man. I will grumpily take my punishment if ever cited for smoking my leaf at Burning Man. I know the risk and I AM guilty of it. Even though the laws are ridiculous; I am forewarned. Not so, for the innocent. Whatever the charges they quickly become secondary (emotionally) to the devestation of the unwarranted indictment. Look how passionate Vertigo's reaction to a brief event.

People think, well so what, show your hand and move along. But we are emotional creatures, and when LE engages in illegal search and seizure it is a very painful betrayal to the victim. It usually goes far beyond the moment. I am 44 and still remember being spanked at five for something I didn't do. You can't honestly think that there are no phsychological ramifications for being falsely accused and having your Constitutional rights trounced on? and not for naught, but it must be emotionally scarring for the LE that falsely accuses as well. Maybe that's how you build corruption.
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Postby MoisturePup » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:28 pm

unjonharley wrote:intrapment your ass..

you bring drugs to Burning Man to play the game. You get busted and cry about it..

less than one part of one per cent are ticketed..

Anyone would be dumb to believe this intrapment crap..

If I were a cop this last year I would of had a feild day.. Dumb shits were lighting up down wind of me all the time.. Would have just had to follow my nose..

This leads me to believe the one crying intrapment are full of shit..


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Postby MoisturePup » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:40 pm

GageNdG wrote:
Rehab. Which means they could not control whatever they are in rehab for. Refer back to my previous post for clarification. :)

I have been around different people all my life who have dabbled here, dabbled there, tried this or that, and predominently, have been able to use certain enhancements in moderation and controlled it completely.


Studies have found that the people who are least socially adjusted are the ones who have never experimented with any drugs. It is actually psychologically unhealthy to have completely abstained from any sort of drug use in your late teen and adult years.
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Re: RE: Unjonharley's comments

Postby MoisturePup » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:45 pm

vertigo900 wrote:I have seen innocent, non-drug carrying folks have they're hand grabbed out of their pocket for disposing of gum wrapper.



Why didn't they file assault charges? (The person who was touched by the LEO.)
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Postby wedeliver » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:49 pm

CapSmashy wrote:...We had one prolonged interaction with a BLM Ranger on Thursday night and it was a hoot. Espresso Dude got a good frisking, Hot Shot the Robot got deputized and I got some happy blinkie BLM schwag. I think by week's end half of Terminal City had jr Ranger badges.


Everytime I saw Espresso Dude he was naked, what did they frisk?
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Postby MoisturePup » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:51 pm

GageNdG wrote:3) You lack the openness to understand that you don't know it all, and for that, you are the most dangerous kind of person. Stubborn, opinionated AND uninformed, and YOU don't know it.


Margaret Cho had a great name for this: Aggressively Ignorant.
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Postby MoisturePup » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:05 pm

Ak01 wrote:and on and on and on. Every word that came out of this guys mouth just rubbed me the wrong way and screamed "undercover". We walked fast. I didn't have anything on me that would get me in trouble but it still bothered me for a few hours afterwards.

Luckily no one I knew or saw got arrested this burn.


What if this guy wasn't a cop though? What if this was just a guy being friendly and talking to you?

I know that this year I personally had several encounters where my first thought was "this might be an under cover cop" and I have to be careful what I say, even though I have committed no crimes.

This is by far the greatest harm that the over representation of law enforcement agencies on the playa has resulted in. We can no longer relax and just build a community, we have to be suspicious of everybody.

The worst part of it is that we have to PAY them for the PLEASURE of destroying our ability to do what we come there for: building community.
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Re: LEO Encounters

Postby MoisturePup » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:17 pm

porterico wrote: The officers reassured me of their good intentions, clarified one particular story that I related to them of an illegal search... they actually explained the story in such a way that made me have to side with them... basically someone had been pulled over for having a broken tail light... the narc dog hit on the vehicle, and then the vehicle was searched... so this was different from the story that was explained to me by a fellow burner, but was obviously the same case.


In case your curious the Supreme Court made a decision a couple of years ago that allowed drug dog searches of vehicles that were pulled over for any reason. Drug dogs can smell about 3000x better than we can and have the equivalent of x-ray vision as a result. The problem is though that they are wrong as often as 60% of the time when they "alert." And, they'll even "alert" to something as small as cocaine residue on cash in your pocket that may have been through several peoples hands since it last actually touched coke.

The dissenting opinion of Souter was really something to read. You should give the whole decision a read (http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-923.ZO.html), it basically does away with your 4th and 5th Amendment rights, permanently.
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Postby CapSmashy » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:25 pm

wedeliver wrote:
CapSmashy wrote:...We had one prolonged interaction with a BLM Ranger on Thursday night and it was a hoot. Espresso Dude got a good frisking, Hot Shot the Robot got deputized and I got some happy blinkie BLM schwag. I think by week's end half of Terminal City had jr Ranger badges.


Everytime I saw Espresso Dude he was naked, what did they frisk?


:lol: He was wearing a divine shimmery number that evening.
Image
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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:20 pm

CapSmashy wrote:
wedeliver wrote:
CapSmashy wrote:...We had one prolonged interaction with a BLM Ranger on Thursday night and it was a hoot. Espresso Dude got a good frisking, Hot Shot the Robot got deputized and I got some happy blinkie BLM schwag. I think by week's end half of Terminal City had jr Ranger badges.


Everytime I saw Espresso Dude he was naked, what did they frisk?


:lol: He was wearing a divine shimmery number that evening.
Ah the triumph of Sparkle Night and Sex Filth Avenue.
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Postby wedeliver » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:33 pm

CapSmashy wrote:
wedeliver wrote:
CapSmashy wrote:...We had one prolonged interaction with a BLM Ranger on Thursday night and it was a hoot. Espresso Dude got a good frisking, Hot Shot the Robot got deputized and I got some happy blinkie BLM schwag. I think by week's end half of Terminal City had jr Ranger badges.


Everytime I saw Espresso Dude he was naked, what did they frisk?


:lol: He was wearing a divine shimmery number that evening.
Image


Hummm, that LEO in the background put his hands between those legs??
How does one frisk a skirt or dress?? Serious replies only please..
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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:34 pm

wedeliver wrote:How does one frisk a skirt or dress?? Serious replies only please..
This is the eplaya. Good luck with that.
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Postby vertigo900 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:34 pm

CapSmashy wrote:Large crowd event permits require some type of security/enforcement capacity.

We had one prolonged interaction with a BLM Ranger on Thursday night and it was a hoot.

I am seeing a lot of the comments on here paralleling the remarks people make during Mardi Gras in New Orleans. Just as MG revelers think The French Quarter is some kind of lawless utopia of do whatever you want, it seems a lot of burners share a similar point of view once they reach the playa. Buying a ticket and camping in the desert for an arts festival is not an excuse to ignore the law. You did not get transported to some mythical land far, far away free of the "oppressive" shackles of The Man, you drove to a federally managed, godforsaken wasteland in the high desert of northern Nevada that is operating under the laws and regulations imposed upon it by the people that maintain the land as they pertain to an event of 50k. As Larry himself said, we are not a bunch of hippies in the desert, we are building a city and everything that goes with it from nothing.

....Period. End of story. Anything else is useless crying and going for a ride on the WHAAAAAAAAAAAAmbalance....



You have a few good points of the reality check a lot of burners need when they choose to visit BRC and break federal and state laws on federal land.

However, what suggestions do you have the reduce the LEO harassment and intimidation of burners in BRC who are not carrying or using controlled substances? I know I don't live in a utopia and am not at Martis Gras. This is BLM land which is subject to the civil and criminal laws the United States of America. However the interpretation and execution of those laws by the representatives of the governing agency is required by the U.S. Constitution to perform their duties with respect to the Bill of Rights. Rather than citicize, I am not going to stand idle and watch my or my fellow American citizens rights get violated for illegal searches and entrapments in BRC or in the default world! I do not believe it's okay for LEOs to release people barefoot at night in BRC a mile from their camp. Nor do I believe it is okay for the LEOs to run around like it's Baghdad and intimidate and harass people for such lame things as sleeping in public or the undeniable right of putting their fucking hands in their pocket to dispose of a piece of trash. Yes, if fucking REALLY happened and you would have learned about it if you would have read this entire thread. So, if you want to be judgemental to those who choose to speak up for others or obliviously give away your constitutional rights maybe you might consider moving to someplace like China. Otherwise, maybe you might try reading the full length of this thread and take a brief moment to educate yourself on yourrights before you proclaim to know everything and make general statements towards this discussion. Be an ahole to others will only get your shit poked by a dick!

I appologize for being aggro but am just fucking tired of the burners in this ePlaya discussion discounting others experiences and talking shit to people standing up for our constitutional rights. PLEASE, lets have a thoughtful discussion towards a solution to our beloved cities issues and fellow burners woes, and leave the attitude and ego out. It's no wonder people are willing to vote for people like Bush and McCain, be pro-Patriot Act, when we're all so comfortable with ourselves we don't dare take a moment to humbly listen to others situations and critically think towards universal solutions.

I'm sure in BRC we would get all get along so well!!! ANYONE READING THIS, PLEASE STOP THE HATING AND RHETORIC AND LET'S MAKE THIS THE BEST CITY EVER!!! In the process of the law enforcement officers and undercover narcotics officers attempting to do their job, many fellow burners who were not using or carrying any controlled substances have been harassed and intimidated. I ask you: is this the type of police behavior your willing to allow in BRC when it is not tollerated back in the default world?
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Re: RE: Unjonharley's comments

Postby vertigo900 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:25 pm

MoisturePup wrote:
vertigo900 wrote:I have seen innocent, non-drug carrying folks have they're hand grabbed out of their pocket for disposing of gum wrapper.



Why didn't they file assault charges? (The person who was touched by the LEO.)


This is one of the main problems with consequences and oversight for LEOs misbehaviors. The burner let it go and didn't pursue it with the officer's supervisor.
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Postby gyre » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:24 pm

CapSmashy wrote:Do not count on private land eliminating the presence of law enforcement officers. Large organized events of 50k people still require permitting, even if they are on private land. Large crowd event permits require some type of security/enforcement capacity.

We had one prolonged interaction with a BLM Ranger on Thursday night and it was a hoot. Espresso Dude got a good frisking, Hot Shot the Robot got deputized and I got some happy blinkie BLM schwag. I think by week's end half of Terminal City had jr Ranger badges.

I am seeing a lot of the comments on here paralleling the remarks people make during Mardi Gras in New Orleans. Just as MG revelers think The French Quarter is some kind of lawless utopia of do whatever you want, it seems a lot of burners share a similar point of view once they reach the playa. Buying a ticket and camping in the desert for an arts festival is not an excuse to ignore the law. You did not get transported to some mythical land far, far away free of the "oppressive" shackles of The Man, you drove to a federally managed, godforsaken wasteland in the high desert of northern Nevada that is operating under the laws and regulations imposed upon it by the people that maintain the land as they pertain to an event of 50k. As Larry himself said, we are not a bunch of hippies in the desert, we are building a city and everything that goes with it from nothing.

As for getting busted at the event, that blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the person that got busted. Period. End of story. Anything else is useless crying and going for a ride on the WHAAAAAAAAAAAAmbalance. No one made you try to buy some illicit narcotics, no one made you try to sell/give away some illicit narcotics and no one made you stand there and consume illicit narcotics. You made the conscious and purposeful to engage in illegal behavior all by yourself. And if that involved accepting or giving narcotics to a stranger that turned out to be a cop, well boo fucking hoo sunshine. That would be a good example of why they call it "dope".

Complete horseshit!

In the real world, I am not constantly targeted for phony drug charges.
I bet I could walk around in Reno and no one would care if I was smoking crack, either.

Real world?
In the real world I don't get my mail without carrying a loaded gun and I can't get the cops to do anything about the crack dealers stealing everything.
AND I carry a 40rd AK on the streets at night sometimes.
Why is it okay for police to behave illegally at burning man?
And unreasonably?
Take the money and offer it to someplace sensible.
Fuck Nevada.

Want the real world out there?
Criminals AND police became far more polite when carry permits became available for those without a huge bribe for the sheriff.
And a 40rd AK with a folding stock fits nicely in a backpack.
That's the real world.

And do I look stupid enough to go to Mardi Gras?


How many thousands didn't go this year because of the unpleasant police presence and not the fuel prices and crippled economy?
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'Bob's Tent

Postby gyre » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:31 pm

The safety tent is 'Bob's tent.
'Bob' may have "illegal" fireworks or too much propane.
His tent is separate from the others in the camp.
He didn't leave his I.D. in the tent.
'Bob' is always out somewhere when the police search his tent.
No one is sure where to find 'Bob'.
But he's in a lot of trouble when he shows up.
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Postby CapSmashy » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:38 pm

vertigo900 wrote:However, what suggestions do you have the reduce the LEO harassment and intimidation of burners in BRC who are not carrying or using controlled substances?


Excellent question.

1. BORG has a system in place via the BR Rangers to make complaints about harassing treatment from the various LEO's o the Playa. How many people, including yourself, that have been openly harassed by LEO have utilized this system?

Conversely, I have no idea how well this system works if it even works at all.

I may be wrong on this, but I am under the assumption that any participant at the event has the right to request a BRC Ranger or other BORG representative be present for any extended session with law enforcement per agreements made between the BORG and the law enforcement agencies present on the Playa.

Again, if this is true, how many people that have had negative encounters have taken advantage of this system?

2. Know your rights. I know you know them, but how many others are walking around clueless as to what law enforcement can and can't do? How many people have voluntarily surrendered their rights when requested to do so by law enforcement and consented to searches of their person and property when prompted to?

Its no different than being on a traffic stop and refusing to allow an officer to search your vehicle.

3. Make some noise. Not after, but during. If you feel your rights are being violated by a law enforcement officer make some fucking noise and draw a crowd. A simple "PLEASE HELP ME! MY RIGHTS ARE BEING VIOLATED!" repeated in the loudest voice you can muster is all you need for this. I've seen this tactic work wonders at other venues.

4. Make some noise afterwards. To the Rangers, to the BORG, to the department you feel violated your rights and if necessary, to a civil rights lawyer. A few out o court settlements for abuse of authority will go a long way to cool the jets of over zealous law enforcement.


The primary point in all of this is to be *dum da dum* radically self reliant in looking out for your own ass as your ass is being violated. And in the same manner, in the spirit of community, looking out for your neighbor is just as important.

I know I don't live in a utopia and am not at Martis Gras. This is BLM land which is subject to the civil and criminal laws the United States of America.


You are correct. However, a lot of people do not seem to understand this very basic fact of life while at Burning Man.

However the interpretation and execution of those laws by the representatives of the governing agency is required by the U.S. Constitution to perform their duties with respect to the Bill of Rights.


Absofuckinglutly.

I have read and heard about a lot of 4th Amendment violations being blatantly committed by law enforcement on the Playa. And on the few occasions I have been able to ask the person citing the incident, "Well, what did you do about it?" the overwhelming reply I hear amounts to basically they did nothing about it except complain about it after the fact.

This same "compliant at the time and complain later" is a very common and disturbing trait that is echoed across all manner of people's lives when dealing with law enforcement in any environment. I find it appalling the number of people that would rather complain in their misery than be proactive in their defense.

Rather than citicize, I am not going to stand idle and watch my or my fellow American citizens rights get violated for illegal searches and entrapments in BRC or in the default world!


GOOD! Encourage others to do the same.

I do not believe it's okay for LEOs to release people barefoot at night in BRC a mile from their camp. Nor do I believe it is okay for the LEOs to run around like it's Baghdad and intimidate and harass people for such lame things as sleeping in public or the undeniable right of putting their fucking hands in their pocket to dispose of a piece of trash. Yes, if fucking REALLY happened and you would have learned about it if you would have read this entire thread.


I have read the entire thread. And in most of this thread I see a lot of people complaining about shit that happened to them or to their friends or whatever and not doing a damn thing about it besides crying about it on a message board.

I have also read several threads where people are making these same complaints about being targeted by law enforcement while they are fucking standing there smoking a joint.

So, if you want to be judgemental to those who choose to speak up for others or obliviously give away your constitutional rights maybe you might consider moving to someplace like China.


Oh cry me a fucking river about China. Maybe you need to go back and read what I posted. The central theme of my post was directed at those that have been popped for drug use and act like they have been victimized because drugs are supposed to be okay at Burning Man.

Those are the idiots I am judgmental towards.

Otherwise, maybe you might try reading the full length of this thread and take a brief moment to educate yourself on yourrights before you proclaim to know everything and make general statements towards this discussion. Be an ahole to others will only get your shit poked by a dick!


:lol:

I have read the thread. Its why I posted in it.

I appologize for being aggro but am just fucking tired of the burners in this ePlaya discussion discounting others experiences and talking shit to people standing up for our constitutional rights.


I have seen nothing in your posts indicating anyone standing up fro themselves.

Your first post in the thread highlights key examples of my last post concerning people that brought the shit storm down upon themselves.

1. Idiot handed a joint out to a stranger with a sob story. Had the "veteran" simply told the guy that they had no drugs, none of the rest of that would have happened.

2. No where in your narrative do you say he was asking for drugs. Sounds more like you had a blitzed out E-Tard on your hands. What specifically was there that screamed narc about him? He was dressed too normal? He was babbling on about overt sexual encounters after admitting to be Xing? You wanted to call the Rangers, yet you did not. Is this simply another case of talking a good game without backing it up?

3. And? Your camp mate initiated that exchange. Your anger is misplaced.

4. Unfortunantly, at the present time, pot is still illegal. If you do not want your Burnerrific time ruined by getting caught with a controlled substance there is a very obvious solution. Do not carry illegal substances on your person.

As for the rest of that, by all means, strike out and found your own pot haven utopia. Just make sure to have that prescription handy when you are sparking it up. Oh, and federal law enforcement does not honor or recognize medical marijuana prescriptions.

PLEASE, lets have a thoughtful discussion towards a solution to our beloved cities issues and fellow burners woes, and leave the attitude and ego out.


Attitude? Ego? How about a little fucking common sense?

It's no wonder people are willing to vote for people like Bush and McCain, be pro-Patriot Act, when we're all so comfortable with ourselves we don't dare take a moment to humbly listen to others situations and critically think towards universal solutions.


When you start being proactive about covering your own ass, get back to me.

I've been an originating party on a civil rights suit that resulted in 6 police officers being fired and 2 of them being federally prosecuted. Do not dare to presume to lecture me on politics or being proactive when it comes to knowing and protecting my rights.

I'm sure in BRC we would get all get along so well!!! ANYONE READING THIS, PLEASE STOP THE HATING AND RHETORIC AND LET'S MAKE THIS THE BEST CITY EVER!!! In the process of the law enforcement officers and undercover narcotics officers attempting to do their job, many fellow burners who were not using or carrying any controlled substances have been harassed and intimidated. I ask you: is this the type of police behavior your willing to allow in BRC when it is not tollerated back in the default world?


I don't allow it to happen to me, but as long as the majority of people at the event humbly submit and voluntarily surrender their rights, it will continue.

And yes, I am sure we would get along quite nicely in BRC. Stop by the Booby Bar next year and I'll I'll buy you a drink and we can happily debate until we fall over in a stupor. :D
Playawaste Raiders cordially invites you to suck it.
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Postby CapSmashy » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:40 pm

gyre wrote:Complete horseshit!

In the real world, I am not constantly targeted for phony drug charges.
I bet I could walk around in Reno and no one would care if I was smoking crack, either.

Real world?
In the real world I don't get my mail without carrying a loaded gun and I can't get the cops to do anything about the crack dealers stealing everything.
AND I carry a 40rd AK on the streets at night sometimes.
Why is it okay for police to behave illegally at burning man?
And unreasonably?
Take the money and offer it to someplace sensible.
Fuck Nevada.

Want the real world out there?
Criminals AND police became far more polite when carry permits became available for those without a huge bribe for the sheriff.
And a 40rd AK with a folding stock fits nicely in a backpack.
That's the real world.

And do I look stupid enough to go to Mardi Gras?


How many thousands didn't go this year because of the unpleasant police presence and not the fuel prices and crippled economy?


Oh spare me the mellowdramatics. :lol:
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Postby gyre » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:33 pm

CapSmashy wrote:
Oh spare me the mellowdramatics. :lol:

Mellow, huh?
I always am too nice for my own good.

I applaud you for following through on your complaints with the police.
As I've posted elsewhere, I have filed complaints through the org and asked them to make all groups aware of my intent to convert unmarked art cars to marked ones (My way of giving back).
Since I don't use drugs on the playa, I was willing to put my name on that.
Hopefully they have been discouraged from this particularly heinous approach.
If not....

I've filed a lot of police complaints myself and provided info that has caused a few political scandals and worse, though not nearly as much as deserved.
The last one was pretty good.
Some of them are still in prison.

You might enjoy the fair play law I hope to get passed.
It sets penalties for false prosecution at the maximum the victim was exposed to.
This would apply to police and prosecutors.
I'm also involved in the campaign to restore property rights to american city dwellers, currently non-existent.
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Postby willyloafofphora » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:02 pm

I live in California and I have a note from my doctor that says that I should smoke weed. I should be able to smoke weed legally in the state of Nevada because the voters in the state of Nevada decided that they wanted medical marijuana. Unfortunately the powers that be are DIRTY FUCKING FASCISTS and seem to think that the people and their physicians are too dumb to decide what they can put in their own bodies. My doctor graduated from UCLA and then Harvard medical, he seems to think that marijuana is less harmful than alcohol or aspirin. So why the fuck should I have to hide like a criminal to take my medicine on the playa. I mean when your young people always tell you shit like '' oh this country's so damn great because we have a democracy and if you don't like something you have the power to change it'' Then the voters change it and the rich bastards who run shit decide that they know whats best for us and that that is to continue throwing people in jail for using or growing a harmless plant. Fuck that shit.
Repeat mantra

MARIJUANA GOOD, REPUBLICANS BAD
MARIJUANA GOOD, REPUBLICANS BAD
MARIJUANA GOOD, REPUBLICANS BAD
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