israeli burner need some help to get together art proposal

fun in italy ibi

Postby rei_dishon » Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:38 pm

well i'm here in italy for a little vacation and for some meetings with the art recidency that i was in this summer - and here is the link to the art exhibition that i was showing at the end of the recidency.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rei_dishon/sets/72157602458279145/

thanks for the tip about spelling though it doesn't really work when you are using Polish computer which what my friends roomate has and that what i gets to use here (that does the spell check for polish)

so.... what did we said about art ?
and what do we think about this year theme ?

peace
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Re: fun in italy ibi

Postby DVD Burner » Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:55 pm

rei_dishon wrote:
thanks for the tip about spelling though it doesn't really work when you are using Polish computer which what my friends roomate has and that what i gets to use here (that does the spell check for polish)



Uuuummmm, I just dont want to comment on this one but I will say that from experience.....and many years of it, they do work with all computers no matter what language it is. But that's neither here nor there.

As far as themes go, BM as long as I have been around BM, didn't start out with themes.

I dont pay much attention to them.
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Postby Jew Boy » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:37 pm

Shalom, REI

First of all, your gratitude is fantastic. Let me assure you, a large majority of Americans understand and support Israel, despite the hard circumstances you are in. If the same number of Arabs supported the Palestinians in this way, there would not be any Israel. People with anti-Israeli sentiments have largely segregated themselves in places like San Francisco and Berkeley, which is why you find so many of them at Burning Man and so few of them anywhere else. Despite their lack of much political progress, they call themselves "progressives." But you knew all that.

As to your project, I think you will affect people more positively if you made one sign that said "Thank You, America" and towed it around on a bike. I've burned 7 years in a row and haven't seen anything like that.

You could also set up a falafel stand. The used oil will burn quite nicely.
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Postby DVD Burner » Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:01 pm

There ya go!

the inevitable has happened.

My point about posting as an Israeli burner has just been made.


FUCK ISRAEL!

How about that?


See, this is why I said it was not important to bring up being an Israeli Burner.

It is exclusionary. You open the door to idiots like SED to fuck shit up.
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Postby Jew Boy » Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:48 pm

Sucker!
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nice, so after we clear that one we can move on....

Postby rei_dishon » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:07 am

so DVD BURNER i'm glad that we clear that one "fuck israel" so now we can move on to little bit more interesting things.

so you mantion that you don't follow the theme thing and i wanted to ask you how do you see BM, its art and development (for good and bad) through out the years (since it seem like you have been around for few years...) - and i mean lets leave aside for a moment the whole "drugs,party,sex" thing - which there is nothing wrong with it and i do enjoy part of it as well but i dont see it as the main part of Bm

as well i wanted to hear your feedback about my exhibition - do you connect with the idea, do you like it (or not).

as well i was wondering if you have something as well to share about you what do you do, what do you like to do, something...

do you want to be personally judged
on the behavior of your government?
Yeah, me either.
- well i dont really have a choice since i born in israel and live there but what i'm saying is lets talk about it instead of hiding it under the table

You dont know much about me nor I of you, though I do get an idea from the title of your thread.
- would you like to get to know me ? and if you do, what would you like to know about me ? (i mean beside the face where i live)


(and btw jew boy - there was already a Falafel stand in BM few years ago though these guys were close every time we got there :).
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Postby Jew Boy » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:57 pm

In this world, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a falafel stand. But how about the Thank You America idea? As far as I know, it hasn't been done at Burning Man.
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Re: nice, so after we clear that one we can move on....

Postby DVD Burner » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:50 pm

rei_dishon wrote:so DVD BURNER i'm glad that we clear that one "fuck israel" so now we can move on to little bit more interesting things.




DVD wrote:

Now we are getting some where and making some progress.

I may come to like you after all.

And Fuck SED. As you can see .......welll he's SED....or SAD or whatever.

he'll do some other stupid things but that's neither here nor there.




rei_dishon wrote:so you mantion that you don't follow the theme thing and i wanted to ask you how do you see BM, its art and development (for good and bad) through out the years (since it seem like you have been around for few years...)



DVD wrote:A few years? I was there from the beginning.

I'm one of the originals. and as far as the art goes.........it's awesome. always has been.. why should it be anything else?



rei_dishon wrote:- and i mean lets leave aside for a moment the whole "drugs,party,sex" thing - which there is nothing wrong with it and i do enjoy part of it as well but i dont see it as the main part of Bm





DVD wrote:Ok, You want to know what I think or know about BM?

there is nothing to describe the art or the event. And from the beginning, it's always been about inclusion and watching out for each other.
Sounds hippy-ish but there are just too many ways I can describe BM and it all cannot be done in just my one post.
So let me do it this way; this is what I know and witnessed in being at cacophony/BM when I was there in the beginning:

this is how BM started when I was there. And how I feel it still rings to this day.

I got this from here:


http://bm.tribe.net/thread/fcb3b778-bb3 ... 9b45493205


Burning Man and Cacophony were separate but mutually linked. There is a lot of conjecture of the history, mostly revolving around John Laws falling out with the event.

The annual summer solstice Burning Man on Baker beach in San Francisco was a guerilla happening, not by choice, but by necessity. It was attempted to get a permit but showed to be virtually impossible. Instead, begging forgiveness was the only means possible. This worked for a number of years until the authorities finally caught on to the cyclical nature of the happening and arrived before the man was ignited in 1990. I reasoned with the police that we were their citizens that loved this beach, that we were not vandals, and they agreed to let us set up the man but not burn it.

Bringing the Burning Man to the Black Rock Desert on the Cacophony Zone Trip #4 was an awesome, magical homecoming for the recently evicted squatting man. As it turned out, that very first year in the Black Rock the man was still a guerilla (unpermitted) burn. A BLM ranger found us out there in the deep playa and let us know that we were in violation and the next time we would need a permit. The beauty of this was that a permit was doable! 1991 was the first time there was a permit for the event. Actually the permit was for the number of people not the size of the bonfire. (Baker beach bonfires could be no larger than 3 feet cubed).

From my perspective the event has grown fittingly with the challenges it has faced and it amazes me how many small original gestures have blossomed into grand organized gestures. For example, in 1991 I erected a small bulletin board in center camp that grew proportionately over the years into what is now Playa Info, with banks of computers and who knows what all else. The Center camp community shade tent was there from the first year with Miss P serving coffee and such.

Back to the topic... Burning man and Cacophony continued the alliance, Burning Man was an annual event with a new home, whereas the Cacophony Zone trips varied in time and space. Maybe someone can list the dates and places of Zone Trips #1,2 and 3 (and perhaps any since). Kevin Evans, the original sponsor of Zone Trip #4, printed t-shirts for the next couple of years as Zone trips 5 and 6 but the event in 1991 and since have been called Burning Man.

Burning Man, the event, was never strictly a cacophony event thought it certainly fit perfectly with the cacophony ethos to hold space for participatory expression of all the disparate collectives and individuals over all these years.

Clearly, I would say, cacophony within burning man is alive and well...

oh yeah, and thanks to all you contributors!






rei_dishon wrote:as well i wanted to hear your feedback about my exhibition - do you connect with the idea, do you like it (or not).




DVD wrote:I went through it a bit and did not quite see the exhibit. maybe I did but it's not like I can imagine art pieces before they get to the playa.
I saw Pe pe's stuff one time off the playa and it was not the same as when it is on the playa.
looks great either way but the envronment is different. timing.....lots of factors.

Truthfully, I'm not the best judge of things like that.



rei_dishon wrote:as well i was wondering if you have something as well to share about you what do you do, what do you like to do, something...




DVD wrote:I do art. Mostly music. I also do all kinds of mediums. I've done sound at the event when it started for a few bands but these days I've been busy with art in a computing way and write and produce a lot of music.

A lot of music.


And when I say computing, there is way too many things for me to describe here..

I do what I can these days for BM. Like spread the word still, and recruit.
I help the web team when I can and have the time.
But they really have things under control these days, which is a loooog way from where they came from.

if you want to know about the computing you should just go to my profile on tribe. The link is in my eplaya profile. even other things and people I'm with in BM are there.

So there you have it in a small nutshell.
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Postby wedeliver » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:27 pm

DVD Burner wrote:....
(You could have also said "I am a burner in Italy")
...


He did not say he was jewish and 20% of the Isreali popultion is Arab.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... ewpop.html
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Postby DVD Burner » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:30 pm

wedeliver wrote:
He did not say he was jewish and 20% of the Isreali popultion is Arab.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... ewpop.html




What is it with people that have to associate Israel with Jewish people?

No one here made mention of Jews.


Are Jewish people Israelis?
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Postby DVD Burner » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:31 pm

seems to me you missed the point.
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Postby Jew Boy » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:07 pm

[quote="DVD Burner"]


What is it with people that have to associate Israel with Jewish people?

[/quote]

Might be all them Jew-folk living there. Call it a hunch.


But hey, shouldn't we be talking about the art project?
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Postby Apollonaris Zeus » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:36 pm

OK everyone just back off!

DVD you know all that someone has to say is that they are from someplace that someone has an issue with and its bombs and rockets!

Yes, I have issues too on the middle east, but its a problem that been in the works for hundreds of years, so I blame the Christians, then the Jews and finally Islam! You know were my position comes from.

But I don't hunt them down when they wish to be part of this community even if they wish to distinguish them from the rest of the community. That wouldn’t change anything except to polarize the problems. There has to be a neutral ground: A place where people can be genuine and free to interact to see the human side instead of the rhetoric message of extremist. Burning Man can be that place.

We can’t go back 150 years, nor can you expect someone that is of the same soil to leave his homeland whether one is a newbie from another land or an established indigenous native. Native Americans realize that point. The Lakotas have an open invitation to non-indigenous Americans to come and join them in their proposed succession! Can that happen in the middle east, YES! Maybe not tomorrow or even this century, but it can happen. Remember, it was only a few years ago that Israeli scholars admitted to misrepresenting the true historical facts. So give it time!

And don’t jump on someone expressing where they are from, just meet them at BM treat them well, then drop the bomb by telling them that you are a Palestinian. They will go and think more about your kindness wining them over with your compassion!

Other then that, I would hand out free falafels and beer!

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Postby Jew Boy » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:46 pm

So you're saying the Lakotas should go start a new country in the Middle East? I'm not so sure that would be a good idea.

But how about this one? A Lakota seccessionist should strap explosives to his body and blow himself up in Center Camp or in Kidsville. That will definitely improve conditions up on Pine Ridge and Rosebud.

Whoops, this thread is supposed to be about REI-Dishon's project. Sorry.
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Postby Bob » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:37 pm

Rei, may as well abandon this thread. DVD Burner is the shithead moderator of the eplaya, and he's going to demand to have the last word.
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Postby Toolmaker » Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:21 am

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:Yes, I have issues too on the middle east, but its a problem that been in the works for hundreds of years, so I blame the Christians, then the Jews and finally Islam!


I thought it was the jews first, than the christians, and lastly the muslims. The way I see it they are all the same waging war against each other for the same bloodthirsty fry an ant farm with a magnifyin glass god. All their violence is why I try to avoid either of those newer beliefs.
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Postby Apollonaris Zeus » Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:35 am

Toolmaker wrote:
Apollonaris Zeus wrote:Yes, I have issues too on the middle east, but its a problem that been in the works for hundreds of years, so I blame the Christians, then the Jews and finally Islam!


I thought it was the jews first, than the christians, and lastly the muslims. The way I see it they are all the same waging war against each other for the same bloodthirsty fry an ant farm with a magnifyin glass god. All their violence is why I try to avoid either of those newer beliefs.


I’m talking about the anti-Semitism of the 19th century by Christians which started the idea of reestamblishment of Isreal and not the order of which religion came first!

Let this thread morph back into what it was intended to be about supporting an art theme!

ok, class.

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Postby skygod » Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:51 am

I think the beauty of art is that it allows people to have a conversation where they would otherwise not be interested in talking to one another.

Art is like Chuck Norris:
"Chuck Norris can kick through all six degrees of separation, hitting anyone, anywhere, in the face, at any time."

Art can do the same thing.
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Postby wedeliver » Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:31 am

DVD Burner wrote:seems to me you missed the point.


Don't know for sure if you meant me, but yes I have missed the point. Let me see if I understand the situation. A guy, claiming to be an artist, posts that he has some plans for an art project and wonders if other people might be interested in the helping. The guy does say that he is from Israel, although to me it could have been Montana.

Simon says something about how they treat the indians in Montana, no, excuse me he says something like "how about a gift for every palestinian first...."

then you post... "I know an Asian Burner that needs help with her proposal also.
Hey I know a Mexican and Black Burner that needs help also.
WTF is this shit anyway?"

So no I guess I don't know what is going on other then someone posts in the correct forum looking for help with an art project and his request is turned into the guy having to defend himself. Perhaps you found fault with the way he worded his request?

That seems to be bullshit.. This is not the place to be political. It's all about the fucking art and there will be less of it without encouragement.
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Postby moshe! » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:49 pm

DVD you are a bigot.
I have PLENTY problems with the government in Palestine (including having freinds blown up in the cafeteria of my school) but it would NEVER occur to me to reply to some one posting an idea a starting out with " I am a palestinian artist" with " I would be ashamed to call myself Palestinian!" not would i have the nerve( you call it balls , i call it ignorance) to say Fuck Palestine. In fact I dont feel either of those things despite my problems with the policies of the palestinian govenment. Palestinians are and should be proud of who they are and where they are from just like israelis. You on the other had are a hateful, reactionary, demonizing bigot. Oh and a shit starter who needs attention. Unplud the computer and go hang out with some israelis and youll realize thye are as human as Palestinians.
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*SIGH*

Postby DVD Burner » Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:05 pm

And *Sigh* again.

I believe rei_dishon made an excellent attempt to reach out to me and should be commended for it.

The title of the thread starts out

"israeli burner" , Not "Burner from Israel " or Burner needing help or anything else.

It was apparent that it was important that he identify with other Israeli burners.
Excuse me for thinking so, but since I have been around BM since before it's conception I always knew it to be about Burners first and the default world second.

Every other Burner that posts on eplaya, (there may be some exceptions) post, "Hi, I'm a burner from _________.. never "I'm a German burner'.

This is important.

Why?

Because it is inevitable that someone is going to have a problem with someone that wears their nationality or religion on their sleeve. case in point, Simon was the first to post in this thread.



What was his point?

There is no reason to create a divide by starting out ones post with divisive words in an event such as BM.

BM is inclusive whether anyone likes that fact or not.

I care too much about BM for someone to just come in with, "Hey, I'm a purple and red that needs help from a purple and red".

That is my case and point and if there are those that have a hard time understanding that, so be it.

Israel and all other places outside of Black rock is the default world where people fight and do stupid shit.

why have that dumb shit extend here?


It's not about Israel first, it's about BM first.
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Postby DVD Burner » Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:11 pm

moshe! wrote:DVD you are a bigot.
I have PLENTY problems with the government in Palestine (including having freinds blown up in the cafeteria of my school) but it would NEVER occur to me to reply to some one posting an idea a starting out with " I am a palestinian artist" with " I would be ashamed to call myself Palestinian!" not would i have the nerve( you call it balls , i call it ignorance) to say Fuck Palestine. In fact I dont feel either of those things despite my problems with the policies of the palestinian govenment. Palestinians are and should be proud of who they are and where they are from just like israelis. You on the other had are a hateful, reactionary, demonizing bigot. Oh and a shit starter who needs attention. Unplud the computer and go hang out with some israelis and youll realize thye are as human as Palestinians.



Oh and by the way, I live with and work with and love my Palestinian friends.

They take excellent care of me everyday.

I dont take kindly to anyone that insults them or any of my friends whether they be Palestinian, Jewish, Asian, Black, White Green or Burner.

If they are a friend of mine they know I have their back.


I would say lets try to steer this thread back to the art it was intended for but that time has already past.
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Postby Bob » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:23 pm

Better start another thread, Rei.

Make sure you get BVD Crapper's permission first.
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Postby DVD Burner » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:26 pm

:lol:

wtf!


i just cant win.
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Postby moshe! » Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:32 am

DVD Burner wrote:
moshe! wrote:DVD you are a bigot.
I have PLENTY problems with the government in Palestine (including having freinds blown up in the cafeteria of my school) but it would NEVER occur to me to reply to some one posting an idea a starting out with " I am a palestinian artist" with " I would be ashamed to call myself Palestinian!" not would i have the nerve( you call it balls , i call it ignorance) to say Fuck Palestine. In fact I dont feel either of those things despite my problems with the policies of the palestinian govenment. Palestinians are and should be proud of who they are and where they are from just like israelis. You on the other had are a hateful, reactionary, demonizing bigot. Oh and a shit starter who needs attention. Unplud the computer and go hang out with some israelis and youll realize thye are as human as Palestinians.



Oh and by the way, I live with and work with and love my Palestinian friends.

They take excellent care of me everyday.

I dont take kindly to anyone that insults them or any of my friends whether they be Palestinian, Jewish, Asian, Black, White Green or Burner.

If they are a friend of mine they know I have their back.


I would say lets try to steer this thread back to the art it was intended for but that time has already past.


what in gods name are you talking about? Perhaps you dont even know. perhaps you arent a bigot just a little...how you say... off?
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Postby DVD Burner » Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:09 am

moshe! wrote:
DVD Burner wrote:
moshe! wrote:DVD you are a bigot.
I have PLENTY problems with the government in Palestine (including having freinds blown up in the cafeteria of my school) but it would NEVER occur to me to reply to some one posting an idea a starting out with " I am a palestinian artist" with " I would be ashamed to call myself Palestinian!" not would i have the nerve( you call it balls , i call it ignorance) to say Fuck Palestine. In fact I dont feel either of those things despite my problems with the policies of the palestinian govenment. Palestinians are and should be proud of who they are and where they are from just like israelis. You on the other had are a hateful, reactionary, demonizing bigot. Oh and a shit starter who needs attention. Unplud the computer and go hang out with some israelis and youll realize thye are as human as Palestinians.



Oh and by the way, I live with and work with and love my Palestinian friends.

They take excellent care of me everyday.

I dont take kindly to anyone that insults them or any of my friends whether they be Palestinian, Jewish, Asian, Black, White Green or Burner.

If they are a friend of mine they know I have their back.


I would say lets try to steer this thread back to the art it was intended for but that time has already past.


what in gods name are you talking about? Perhaps you dont even know. perhaps you arent a bigot just a little...how you say... off?



And you dont get what Moshe posted or you dont get what I posted?

I'll clear up both for you right now.

The average Housing in Gaza:


Image



The average Housing in Israel:

Image


Now when it comes to friends being killed and maimed in Palestine, I really dont think one can compare to the other.


now which bombs do more damage and who is killing more people?
Do we really need to go on with this Nonsense?

Like Simon said




Simon of the Playa wrote:how about a gift for every palestinian first....
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Postby DVD Burner » Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:10 am

you want to talk about art then do just that.

This all has been done on eplaya before.

It's old.

Now when it comes to bigots, look in the mirror.
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Postby moshe! » Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:38 am

"Now when it comes to friends being killed and maimed in Palestine, I really dont think one can compare to the other.


now which bombs do more damage and who is killing more people?
Do we really need to go on with this Nonsense?"


about 4000 palestinans have been killed and about 1000 israelis since sept of 2000. At what numeric equivalent would you be able to compare the deaths of isrealis to palestinains? What number death spread would allow you to feel that the suffering on both sides is equal? if Isreal had killed 1/4th less people would you call it comprable? If they killed 1/4th and one extra would they be the victims? Im not sure how you quantify that. Would you like me to show you pictures of israeli buses blown to bits to try and prove that israelis suffer? Im not sure what demonic idea you have in your head of Israelis or what angelic idea you have painted yourself of Palestinians, but the reality is that both sides are suffering greatly, both sides have transgressed deeply and both sides perpetuate the problem gravely. I dont know about which bomb is doing "more damage" I know that my friend ben went to get a cup of coffee in the same place where I went to get my cappucinno every morning, but that day ben went in, so did someone else who blew himself up and killed ben instantly. Please quantify this suffering through your human suffering calculator. The fact is this is NOT about numbers and inflamitory internet postings. Its not about demonizing one group and cannonizing another. Its about recognizing the insanity, horror and terrible sadness of this situation. As long as people like you and the people on far right of the pro-israel argument try to play the blame game people will continue to suffer. But im wasting my breath, i know. Youve already decided on a paridigm that allows you to feel safe in the knowledge that you know who the bad guys are the good guys are. Its just like star wars! People like you and the people i meet on the far right of Israeli apologetics are hilariously exactly the same. Your lack of nuance is why people feel so very hopeless on both sides in israel/palestine.
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Postby DVD Burner » Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:04 am

You are thread drifting even further from the topic every time you post.

I'm too tired for this right now and have a big day tomorrow.

maybe and not to be continued.


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Postby Bob » Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:40 pm

Don't expect him to stop hijacking this thread, Moshe. He picks on people like a bully, and won't stop until the thread is full of his insane unintelligible rants. I'd suggest complaining, but he's a de facto moderator on the eplaya.

Rei says in his first post he's been doing Burning Man since 2002, and I'd think eplaya readers would start from a basis of trust that he knows what's appropriate or inappropriate at the event -- if they were intelligent & rational people, that is. Plenty of people identify their camps, art projects & themselves as coming from a particular place or culture.

That said, when you deal with some people from San Francisco, you might encounter a unique kind of racism. Good luck.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
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Bob
 
Posts: 6762
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:00 am
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: Royaneh

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