The Contraption 2.0

Postby LeChatNoir » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:31 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:I can't tell from the photo how stout the spring mount is... but you don't want a pivot there or the car will roll uncontrollably.


Also, it could be an issue the way the spring is clamped between two flat plates. This might cause a fatigue point on each side. Normally you would use two U-bolts with a single, center pin through all springs. The U-bolts seem that they could still allow a bit of movement (if only slight), even when tight. The two plates may not.
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Postby gyre » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:33 pm

You know, I have never seen it move either....
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Postby LeChatNoir » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:37 pm

I can neither confirm nor deny the rumors.
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Postby unjonharley » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:38 pm

LeChatNoir wrote:Didn’t some of the early ford trucks use a single spring mounted crossways? Seems like I’ve heard of them being horrible to control at any bit of speed.


I'm sure all Fords T's A's and into the thirtys had the single spring.. Not sure if the 41 I rode ass end over tea cart through a corn feild did.. Do know 41 through 48 had single rear springs..
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Postby gyre » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:40 pm

One of my sports cars had a single rear spring.
The vette still does.
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Postby fciron » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:52 pm

Brass Fire Extinguisher MY ASS!!

How about a nice riveted galvanized steel water tank?
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Postby unjonharley » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:54 pm

fciron wrote:Brass Fire Extinguisher MY ASS!!

How about a nice riveted galvanized steel water tank?


There's just no punk in galvanized
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Postby LeChatNoir » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:04 pm

fciron wrote:Brass Fire Extinguisher MY ASS!!

How about a nice riveted galvanized steel water tank?


Still thinking of a use for that sucker. Seems too large for the smokestack. But mounted to the undercarriage...
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Postby unjonharley » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:05 pm

While we were talking.. I just bought my 09 power plant.. It's and old Coast to Coast garden tractor mower.. one of the old square jobs.. Seven speeds and a govinor over ride for dow in the dirt pulling.. Sand dunes ha! Might be able to pick up a garden dump trailer too.. The trailer is pretty new.. don't know if I can afford it right now.. I could/would give La Chat a ride (sniff) And the captian.. Too the trash fence and see if the dump pin works..
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Postby LeChatNoir » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:05 pm

I’ve also got some copper that could be made into a nifty water tank as well. I only need a couple of gallons at the most.

Also thought a nice brass grill to cover the watertank opening might look nice too.

Damn... guess I need to get that foundry setup put together this year.
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Postby LeChatNoir » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:10 pm

unjonharley wrote:While we were talking.. I just bought my 09 power plant.. It's and old Coast to Coast garden tractor mower.. one of the old square jobs.. Seven speeds and a govinor over ride for dow in the dirt pulling.. Sand dunes ha! Might be able to pick up a garden dump trailer too.. The trailer is pretty new.. don't know if I can afford it right now.. I could/would give La Chat a ride (sniff) And the captian.. Too the trash fence and see if the dump pin works..


Karine is talking about old lawnmower power for a small vehicle as well.

Deranged minds think alike.
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Postby unjonharley » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:16 pm

LeChatNoir wrote:
Karine is talking about old lawnmower power for a small vehicle as well.

Deranged minds think alike.


Still want the bucket roadster look.. Captian said they are to slow even for the playa.. So it could be streched and a step up idler shaft added. Would ride better if it's longer..
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Postby Captain Goddammit » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:20 pm

Yep, I've done two lawn mower art cars, they definitely need to be geared up. Too bad we all live so far apart, I have an old 11-horse Craftsman uglying up the side of my house. And it's a model that is super-easy to change drive pulleys and gear as you see fit, too.
Unjon, if it's worth the six hour or so drive up to Seattle to get it, you can have it... but you can probably get one locally for less than the gas to come get this one.
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Postby unjonharley » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:32 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:Yep, I've done two lawn mower art cars, they definitely need to be geared up. Too bad we all live so far apart, I have an old 11-horse Craftsman uglying up the side of my house. And it's a model that is super-easy to change drive pulleys and gear as you see fit, too.
Unjon, if it's worth the six hour or so drive up to Seattle to get it, you can have it... but you can probably get one locally for less than the gas to come get this one.


He put up the add.. He is no long there.. She is selling everything that's not nailed down.. She said his word is good on if it run good.. New battery $120.00.. At that price I can rebuild it over the winter..
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Postby fciron » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:11 pm

unjonharley wrote:
fciron wrote:Brass Fire Extinguisher MY ASS!!

How about a nice riveted galvanized steel water tank?


There's just no punk in galvanized


Ahem. Riveted? With sight -glass?

Punk as phuck my son would call it.
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Postby karine » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:31 pm

Well, whatever I work out, it has to be small. THAT, or we get a bigger trailer! ;)

I think I spent an entire day riding out that yacht of Capt's as well... It's easy to lose time on the high seas!
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Did she stay running?

Postby tubahurl » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:36 pm

Hello all,

The one time I was able to hook up with Moz and The Contraption, we had her runnin' pretty good after about an hour of tuning. Since we were WTF over on the other side it was difficult to get back over and check on the progress. Did the carb. adjustments keep her runnin'?

Cap'n o the Tub
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Postby Mad Maxine » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:37 pm

Oh, and thanks for the photo links. As soon as I'm done cleaning dust off of everything I own, I'll sit down and peruse them all...
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Postby karine » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:51 pm

Mad Maxine - After seeing yOUR projects You are now on my list of "most admired women on the playa" !!!!

I mean it!

And yes- tubA... THANK YOU !
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Re: Did she stay running?

Postby LeChatNoir » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:55 pm

tubahurl wrote:Hello all,

The one time I was able to hook up with Moz and The Contraption, we had her runnin' pretty good after about an hour of tuning. Since we were WTF over on the other side it was difficult to get back over and check on the progress. Did the carb. adjustments keep her runnin'?

Cap'n o the Tub


Damn right. She ran great the rest of the burn. The dust started to get to her again at the end, but it was time to load up then anyways.

However, remember when we adjusted the timing? I forgot to really lock down the adjustment and the mag actuator vibrated loose, rotated over and lodged, bending the pushrod. But believe it or not, I was able to simply readjust, tighten it down good and get her running like a top.

I've since removed the push rod to straighten it, but it would probably run just fine like that without messing with it.
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Postby Elliot » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:59 pm

:D
Wow, I cannot even keep track of all the suggested answers to the Front Suspension Question! So I'll have to generalize a little:

(This all to the best of my understanding, ya know.)

There is nothing wrong with the way the spring is mounted. And it does have a center pin thru the leaves and into the plates. The cross spring clamped firmly in the middle is indeed how Henry Ford built them for several decades. There is no harm in having the spring behind the axle -- this only changes the spring rate a bit, which I toyed with by removing leaves anyway. (Only 900 pounds on the front tires, dripping wet.) The shackles are at a good angle (roughly 45 degrees), allowing full travel without alowing excessive sideways movement. There are plastic bushings in the shackles, allowing for the inevitable wiggling -- and the spring leaves can also twist just as well as they can bend. (The dampers -- "shock absorbers" -- are absent in the picture, in case you wondered. Normal modern tubular dampers between the tabs on top of the frame and the wishbone.)

The problem is that I installed split wishbones with a TUBE axle. Recall the fact that the entire suspension is designed to roll around the middle of the spring. The wishbone, as designed by Henry, also pivots on the center line, at a ball below the transmission. Thus, the axle and wishbone live as a single firm unit, just rocking from side to side together. When we split the wishbone (for powertrain clearance and/or handling improvement), we change all that. The axle and the split bones become effectively an anti-roll bar. This requires the axle to twist. With a beam axle, this works great. An I beam loves to twist. Round tubing not so. In fact, any box structure is very resistant to twisting, and a round "box" the most so -- think drive shaft. So, sooner or later, metal fatigue will win. Most likely, one of the wish bone mounts will break, and the axle could even snap. This axle is a very light weight unit, plus it is weakened/embrittled by the chemical/metallurgical effect of plating, so I have been watching it for cracks in the chrome. (None yet.)
This Split Wishbone Catastrophic Failure Problem is most commonly seen on rear suspensions. Usually, a "hair pin" mount tears out of the frame. (Countless T-buckets have been pushed behind the barn one last time in frustration over this problem.) Ever tried to twist a four inch diameter rear end housing?! Something has to give. On a suspension with two lengthwise springs, the springs yield happily enough -- into a slight S-shape, one might say.
When splitting wishbones with a tube axle, the absolute minimum amount of split should be used -- just enough for the drive shaft to pass thru.
The "Four Bar" suspension was invented to solve the axle twisting problem and it works well.

Much good thinking guys, but no cigar.

I'm gonna get some sleep now. :lol:

:D
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Postby karine » Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:00 pm

I still can't believe the thing ran with that push rod bent like it was.
The timing was everything...

Well, that and cleaning the carb. It was like sweet ol' engine magic.
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Postby Captain Goddammit » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:39 am

Kicks self in butt...
I knew about the tube axle needing a 4-bar so it didn't twist... dunno why I couldn't think of it!
But thanks, I like quizzes like that. Wrings out the fading brain!
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Postby Elliot » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:14 am

:D
You are most welcome, Captain, and thanks for the ride on your boat!
:D
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Postby unjonharley » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:20 am

fciron wrote:
unjonharley wrote:
fciron wrote:Brass Fire Extinguisher MY ASS!!

How about a nice riveted galvanized steel water tank?


There's just no punk in galvanized


Ahem. Riveted? With sight -glass?

Punk as phuck my son would call it.


I bow to the punk as phuck galvanized
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Postby unjonharley » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:27 am

Speaking of PHuck..

My Grandson just picked up his degree..

Is now a phd in chemical science..

A company think tank hired him over a year ago..
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Postby unjonharley » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:43 am

karine wrote:Well, whatever I work out, it has to be small. THAT, or we get a bigger trailer! ;)


With a little care. A lawn mower size MV can ride standing on it's butt.. I see ATV going down the road that way all the time..

We are going to need a pre air cleaner box for these litle engines. Everyone put on a thinking cap huh?
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Postby gyre » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:52 am

I've been toying with some designs that have a frame that comes apart.
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Postby Dusza Beben » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:32 pm

fciron wrote:
unjonharley wrote:
fciron wrote:Brass Fire Extinguisher MY ASS!!

How about a nice riveted galvanized steel water tank?


There's just no punk in galvanized


Ahem. Riveted? With sight -glass?

Punk as phuck my son would call it.


Amen brother! As it has been in use for well over 150 years, hot dip galvanization is plenty steamy in my book. Also keep in mind that galvanized can easily be painted to look like cast iron!

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Postby Mad Maxine » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:42 pm

[quote="karine"]Mad Maxine - After seeing yOUR projects You are now on my list of "most admired women on the playa" !!!!

I mean it!

And yes- tubA... THANK YOU ![/quote]

Aww shucks. I'm all blushy. I'm pretty sure you kicked more ass than I. let me know if you get that women's gear website up!
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