The Contraption 2.0

Postby MozyBonz » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:05 pm

give it a week on the playa it will look right
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Postby LeChatNoir » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:40 pm

Now I know whut yall’er up to here…

Yer a-tryin’ to get me to turn mah fine, upstandin’ veehicle into a moe-bile moonshine factry an’ I ain’t a-gonna lechye do it. Hit’s a hard enuff time at keeping up mah good public image, what with all this a fittin’ and a fussin’ with the story-o-types that come with bein’ from Kyentucky. And hyer yall a-go makin’ me out to be some type a barefoot, holler-hidin’ whiskey goon...

Not that I ain’t, but still.

So I reckon we’d best keep all that there stuff bak behind the dome.

‘Sides… how could I explain mahsef to them boys over yonder at the Moonshine Tavern, a-cutting’ in on their giftin’ like that.

~~~~~~~~~

By the way… copper prices are through the roof these days, so as much as I’d love, LOVE to make the boilerskin out of copper sheet, it’s probably not gonna happen. So black iron and rivets seem the proper route.
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Postby fciron » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:43 pm

This one's already steampunk

Image

or

Image
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Postby MozyBonz » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:02 pm

By the way… copper prices are through the roof these days, so as much as I’d love, LOVE to make the boilerskin out of copper sheet, it’s probably not gonna happen. So black iron and rivets seem the proper route.



Hmmm.... how big are we talking? what gage would you like?
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Postby Tiahaar » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:14 am

stealing this from wiki 'cause it just looks so cool : )
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/Steam_engine_in_action.gif/500px-Steam_engine_in_action.gif

Image

The Contraption's engine is a way more steam punk awesome design. Look! This one uses the same sort of eccentric valve controller you're building LeChat. hey copper roof flashing is on ebay occasionally (bought some a year or so ago) maybe a source of cheaper copper sheet metal for?
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Postby Zorch » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:57 am

That there is a little like steampunk porn - dont ya think Tiahaar? lol
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Postby MozyBonz » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:26 pm

it is rather sexy isn't.
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Postby Elliot » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:54 pm

LeChatNoir wrote:However, this means that the steam engine would need a one-way clutch as well, otherwise, you'd be cranking it as well if you used hand power.
.


I don't pretend to be able to follow all this engineerering you guys are doing, but Hub City sells an overrunning clutch that would do this job for you just fine. Part number 0331-00600. $167,- full retail. Goes on a 1 1/4 inch shaft and has a nice flat mounting flange on the outer part. If you can use one with agricultural six-splines instead, then you can get it at any Tractor Supply Co store for half the money -- called a PTO overrunning clutch.
:D
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Postby Tiahaar » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:02 pm

HA! Sexy steam punk porn indeed, and now that you mention it that rythmic in-and-out is quite...um...determined isn't it?
good article:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_power
hmm and Elliot that clutch might help one of my projects out too thanks!
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Postby Elliot » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:42 pm

:D
Image

This is the Hub City 0331-00600. Weighs six pounds. Good for something like 70 HP at 1000 RPM. 1 1/4 " shaft with standard industrial keyway. Two giant pawls inside, going click click click....
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Postby fciron » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:57 am

LeChat,

I see your desire to power up the flywheel because it's so damn cool and you made the damn thing from scratch. However, no one will be able to hear it over the steam engine. I think the original, direct drive may be simplest and best.
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Postby unjonharley » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:48 pm

OK!, This weekend I go and hand out green beer and moon pies on the St patties day run.. Water is not good for those runners.. OH! and bacon too!.. It's so damn early in the morning we have to show up in our jammies and bath robes..Pictures will follow.. Our thing is Moon Us For A Moon Pie..The runners are hot by the time they get there so don't mind letting a little skin show..

Then a garage sale the following week..

After that I have the garage space and my lay out table.. No more screwing around.. The project hits the table Monday morning.. The only side thing is planter boxes for a garden.. extra tool needed is a tube and bar bender 50$ (on sale) Then I be smoken.. Whole new Musical Moop Mobil this year..

Six months to go.. but i'm as slow as a slug.. THe music shit and solor panels are here in a heap.. Four disc players set up for "request"dj'ing. 1950 thru 1954 the birth years of rock and roll..

Now how about the rest you all getting off your ass and share what your doing..
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Postby LeChatNoir » Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:57 pm

Elliot wrote:I don't pretend to be able to follow all this engineerering you guys are doing, but Hub City sells an overrunning clutch that would do this job for you just fine. Part number 0331-00600. $167,- full retail. Goes on a 1 1/4 inch shaft and has a nice flat mounting flange on the outer part. If you can use one with agricultural six-splines instead, then you can get it at any Tractor Supply Co store for half the money -- called a PTO overrunning clutch.
:D


This is very valuable information, indeed Elliot. This one is getting written down on the folder for sure. And things that go "clack clack clack" are double plus good. Man... eplaya is full of fine thinkers and tinkers alike.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So I've been thinking a lot on this current predicament and I may have hit upon a notion. I'll attempt to lay out my line of reasoning… sort of circuitous, but a line none the less.

I want the flywheel to spin… yes definitely must spin. I just can’t not let it spin. I would cry, I think.

I want to be able to run PTO driven implements with both steam and human power… such as an aluminum can crusher. How much fun would it be to pull up to Recycle Camp and make quick work with some human powered, interactive smashin'?

If needed (or wanted) the vehicle should still be able to move via hand power. Everyone who was on the thing last your insisted, often with threat of bodily harm, that it retain this ability through the upgrade and I agree...

Direct drive to the axle would eliminate the option of running implements in place with steam, unfortunately. And it would require that all stops be made by the engine alone… no ability to dump the belt clutch and slam on the brakes. Which some of you may remember was a feature that allowed (much to everyone’s delight) our DPW friend, NotIt, to wait until the very last second before stopping at MASH Camp’s roadblock.

However, hooking the engine up to the flywheel presents several problems, including having to address the fact that, when hand pumping, without a one-way clutch, you’d be pumping the engine as well as the PTO. And using a one-way clutch to solve this problem would remove the ability to engine brake.




Then I remembered something and went digging in my rusty box of spare parts and inspiration which stays tucked away in the corner.

The drive mechanism from the hayrake (the part that forms the Contraption’s rear end) had some big damn gears in it. These were part of a mechanism to engage and disengage the power to the raking tines. This consisted of two interlocking couplings, one of which was fixed and one of which could slide along the drive shaft and engage with the other. The sliding coupling was keyed, with a long piece of keystock, to the shaft, allowing it to always be locked in rotation with the shaft, yet slide back and forth. Pull a lever and engage the couplings and power went to the rake. Disengage the lever and the couplings slide apart and the raking stopped.

Here’s a rough idea of how it worked.


Image


I could use this type of thing on the flywheel input side, allowing the steam engine to be disengaged without any muss or fuss when ever it was necessary.

The next problem is the gearing.

As stated earlier, I want to be able to go 5+ mph and keep the flywheel rpm lower. This is for both addressing the balance issues already mentioned and for keeping the banked energy low when steaming in order to not wring the guts out of the little engine when slowing down.

So another grain of thought shook loose in my noggan and I went out to the barn to look. There’s room on the flywheel output shaft for multiple pairs of chain sprockets and room still to spare for the PTO drive stuff too. Prefect...

Now all I need is an additional pair of sprockets at the desired ratio sitting right beside the ones that are there currently. Simply switch chains to the appropriate set at the appropriate time and viola!. Switching a chain is a quick operation that doesn’t even require crawling underneath. And when hand driving the PTO, since you’re already standing still there’s no need to switch any of those chains… just leave the rear drive’s belt clutch disengaged and pump away. The only time a chain switch would be necessary would be to actually move it with human power, which as Mozy pointed out would be under special circumstances.

I’ll post some pics to clarify soon, but suffice it to say that now (theoretically) the steam engine and the hand pump can each independently drive the rear axle, the PTO, or both with any problems that I can see at this time.
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Postby LeChatNoir » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:00 pm

unjonharley wrote:Now how about the rest you all getting off your ass and share what your doing..


YEAH!!

How 'bout you other turkeys!! Give Give!!
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Postby LeChatNoir » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:48 pm

psssst... fciron has an artcar.

I've not only seen it, I've ridden in it. I hear he's ramping it up and bringing to the playa.
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Postby Elliot » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:14 pm

:D
Cat, I like your drawing. I've been toying with that idea for a while myself -- to use in a chain gang transmission. Basically, what you drew, is half of a two-speed chain gang transmission. My garage work bench is full of jaw couplings and key stock and so forth! Chain gangs were used on some British motorcycles back in the early days. A two-speed chain gang is perfect for a motorcycle -- you simply have one chain on each side of the rear wheel, and engage one at the time.

In Kinetic Sculpture Racing, some of us do indeed swap chains between sprocket sets. The quick way is with a tensioner that can be released with some sort of latch.

A chain gang transmission is that sort of arrangement, but with two (or more) chains always installed, and their hubs engaged as needed.

Put another way, a chain gang is just like a constant mesh gear transmission, but with chains instead of gears. The shifting is done with dog clutches (jaws) or other couplings.

Oh... I'm leaning towards using agricultural six-spline shafts and hubs for my chain gang tranny, rather than a single key/keyway. But yes, my brain started with a long key and a sloppy keyway.

As for what I'm actually building for the Playa this year? Hmmm... RotoCycle. Four unicycles connected together so the assembly can travel in any direction, or spin in place. Not my idea, but I'm building it. Will be in Terminal Village.
:D
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Postby unjonharley » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:28 pm

THe CAtman must have brain pain after that post..

I too am using two powers for my ride.. PEdle and electric.. In this set up I will use two, three speed coaster brakes.. Both chains will be engaged all the time.. One power will be able the assist the other..It amounts to two ratchet drives
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Postby Elliot » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:37 pm

:D
Unjon, you reminded me of something I left out above: In a two speed tranny (any design, I suppose), one of the couplings can be replaced with an overrunning clutch -- a ratchet, yes. Hit fast gear and just let slow gear go clack clack clack.... 8)

That seeems to be where I'm heading with my KSR Wide Ratio Chain Gang.
:D
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Postby unjonharley » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:46 pm

Elliot wrote::D
Unjon, you reminded me of something I left out above: In a two speed tranny (any design, I suppose), one of the couplings can be replaced with an overrunning clutch -- a ratchet, yes. Hit fast gear and just let slow gear go clack clack clack.... 8)

That seeems to be where I'm heading with my KSR Wide Ratio Chain Gang.
:D


\/
It would be nice if you could get the free wheeling, like a coast brake..
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Postby Elliot » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:58 pm

:D
Unjon, do you have any automatic transmissions from cars sitting around? Most of them have a "sprag clutch", which is a one-way no-clicking clutch. I worked on those 30 years ago, but now I don't have a single one around. I KNOW the Ford C-6 has a sprag, but I don't remember how it is configured.

(Hmmm... google "sprag" "Ford"...)
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Postby unjonharley » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:18 pm

Elliot wrote::D
Unjon, do you have any automatic transmissions from cars sitting around? Most of them have a "sprag clutch", which is a one-way no-clicking clutch. I worked on those 30 years ago, but now I don't have a single one around. I KNOW the Ford C-6 has a sprag, but I don't remember how it is configured.

(Hmmm... google "sprag" "Ford"...)


\/
Years have passed from working on cars.. But your on the right track..

I would like to have a rig up and running for the Corvallas run.. Just to show it off once before Burning Man..
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Postby Elliot » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:28 pm

:D
I'm always on the right track. I just wish I didn't derail so often! :wink:

Now we sit back and wait for somebody to jump up and say "Hey, my work bench is full of TurboHydramatic sprags!" :idea:

Great thread, Black Cat! We're not trying to highjack it, honest!
:D
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Postby fciron » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:53 pm

Christ! The pressure is too much for me. Here is last summer's pic. I will upload a drawing of the new plan to the flickr set. (I may have a line on an advertising blimp for steampunk airship action.)

Image

http://flickr.com/photos/fciron/sets/72157603432584902/
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Postby MozyBonz » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:18 pm

LeChatNoir wrote:
Elliot wrote:I don't pretend to be able to follow all this engineerering you guys are doing, but Hub City sells an overrunning clutch that would do this job for you just fine. Part number 0331-00600. $167,- full retail. Goes on a 1 1/4 inch shaft and has a nice flat mounting flange on the outer part. If you can use one with agricultural six-splines instead, then you can get it at any Tractor Supply Co store for half the money -- called a PTO overrunning clutch.
:D


This is very valuable information, indeed Elliot. This one is getting written down on the folder for sure. And things that go "clack clack clack" are double plus good. Man... eplaya is full of fine thinkers and tinkers alike.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So I've been thinking a lot on this current predicament and I may have hit upon a notion. I'll attempt to lay out my line of reasoning… sort of circuitous, but a line none the less.

I want the flywheel to spin… yes definitely must spin. I just can’t not let it spin. I would cry, I think.

I want to be able to run PTO driven implements with both steam and human power… such as an aluminum can crusher. How much fun would it be to pull up to Recycle Camp and make quick work with some human powered, interactive smashin'?

If needed (or wanted) the vehicle should still be able to move via hand power. Everyone who was on the thing last your insisted, often with threat of bodily harm, that it retain this ability through the upgrade and I agree...

Direct drive to the axle would eliminate the option of running implements in place with steam, unfortunately. And it would require that all stops be made by the engine alone… no ability to dump the belt clutch and slam on the brakes. Which some of you may remember was a feature that allowed (much to everyone’s delight) our DPW friend, NotIt, to wait until the very last second before stopping at MASH Camp’s roadblock.

However, hooking the engine up to the flywheel presents several problems, including having to address the fact that, when hand pumping, without a one-way clutch, you’d be pumping the engine as well as the PTO. And using a one-way clutch to solve this problem would remove the ability to engine brake.




Then I remembered something and went digging in my rusty box of spare parts and inspiration which stays tucked away in the corner.

The drive mechanism from the hayrake (the part that forms the Contraption’s rear end) had some big damn gears in it. These were part of a mechanism to engage and disengage the power to the raking tines. This consisted of two interlocking couplings, one of which was fixed and one of which could slide along the drive shaft and engage with the other. The sliding coupling was keyed, with a long piece of keystock, to the shaft, allowing it to always be locked in rotation with the shaft, yet slide back and forth. Pull a lever and engage the couplings and power went to the rake. Disengage the lever and the couplings slide apart and the raking stopped.

Here’s a rough idea of how it worked.


Image


I could use this type of thing on the flywheel input side, allowing the steam engine to be disengaged without any muss or fuss when ever it was necessary.

The next problem is the gearing.

As stated earlier, I want to be able to go 5+ mph and keep the flywheel rpm lower. This is for both addressing the balance issues already mentioned and for keeping the banked energy low when steaming in order to not wring the guts out of the little engine when slowing down.

So another grain of thought shook loose in my noggan and I went out to the barn to look. There’s room on the flywheel output shaft for multiple pairs of chain sprockets and room still to spare for the PTO drive stuff too. Prefect...

Now all I need is an additional pair of sprockets at the desired ratio sitting right beside the ones that are there currently. Simply switch chains to the appropriate set at the appropriate time and viola!. Switching a chain is a quick operation that doesn’t even require crawling underneath. And when hand driving the PTO, since you’re already standing still there’s no need to switch any of those chains… just leave the rear drive’s belt clutch disengaged and pump away. The only time a chain switch would be necessary would be to actually move it with human power, which as Mozy pointed out would be under special circumstances.

I’ll post some pics to clarify soon, but suffice it to say that now (theoretically) the steam engine and the hand pump can each independently drive the rear axle, the PTO, or both with any problems that I can see at this time.



T10 ford top loader 4 speed trans. I think you can find all the parts for your drawing in there also. take your drawing to a trans shop. I bet you can get junk parts for free that would work. I had that same thing in mind. wasn't sure how to explain it. I also thought of using an electric clutch like on a auto AC. it would just look like a pulley with a wire coming out. then you could just hide it's use.


just thinking out loud don't mind me.



Ok this is what I have on the drawing board.


Image



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· Rear-view Camera
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· Control systems work with wireless mouse and keyboard
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· 250,000 volt Tesla Coil above the snorting nose
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· Second trailer hold power generator water tank and air compressor (and the tail wag device)

Fire Spine
· Pyro beat type control system
· Exhaust system from buggy to fire sp


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPvsayO6Plo&eurl[/youtube]
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Postby MozyBonz » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:31 pm

http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/products.htm

T10 ford top loader trans parts


It has a great animation of what your talking about lechat.
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Sabakhasours

Postby MozyBonz » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:19 am

the brain

Image

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* USB Flash Image/Boot Thumb Drive
* 2 or 4 serial ports, RS422/485 ports
* S-Video/TV out, 1394 Firewire
* DC terminal block (12V or 24V/36 or DC range option)
* Intelligent Automotive DC power supply
* Watchdog timer, Hardware monitor, Digital I/O
* Other options available





the LED skin system

http://www.vivideffect.com/vivideffect/ ... 0stair.mov
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Postby fciron » Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:50 am

Is that PyroBeat system programmed for each song or does it use an algorithm to generate the patterns (like a visualizer)?

That is a cool video, there's another one on youtube with throat singing. (Japanese Call-Girl) Throat singing = Hells yeah!

Damn. You guys are really raising the bar on my daily driver. I am gonna have to act extra silly to make up for it.
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Postby dragonfly Jafe » Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:51 am

Mozy that is insane!

How do you get the propane flow without tank frosting issues? Multiple large tanks, hot water baths, how? We want to know the gritty details....
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
Arthur Schopenhauer
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Postby MozyBonz » Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:24 am

fciron wrote:Is that PyroBeat system programmed for each song or does it use an algorithm to generate the patterns (like a visualizer)?

.

the fire FX will be controlled by a DMX controller the song can be programed
with a DMX show control system per song or run on sound activated programs. So all FX on board are controlled with DMX systems.




How do you get the propane flow without tank frosting issues? Multiple large tanks, hot water baths, how?


My plan is to use crankcase strip heaters used on large AC compressors.
to keep them from freezing up.

I am also looking at a flame FX that uses atomized oil that can give out colored flames.

http://www.effectspecialist.com/colorflames.MPG


You guys didn't think I just hung in a bar did you? Hehehehe
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Postby MozyBonz » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:57 am

Image
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