Why does Burningman suck now?

Postby Miss_Conduct » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:17 pm

You know, I wouldn't say Burning Man Sucks. But it is definitely changing for the worse. Waiting in line out there??? We started calling it Disney Man. I want everyone to go to Burning Man. Just not all at once.
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Postby BAS » Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:23 pm

Miss_Conduct wrote:You know, I wouldn't say Burning Man Sucks. But it is definitely changing for the worse. Waiting in line out there??? We started calling it Disney Man. I want everyone to go to Burning Man. Just not all at once.


Having everyone go, but not all at once, might mean having the event last for more than one week. I really don't know how possible that would be if everyone wants to be there when the Man burns. (Heck, from that standpoint, maybe having people set it on fire at random intervals would be a good thing!)

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Do things that have never been done."
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Postby safetythird » Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:51 pm

Burning Man Sucks, Don't Go!
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Postby barnz » Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:34 pm

BAS wrote:Having everyone go, but not all at once, might mean having the event last for more than one week.


The one week duration has historically been a requirement of the BLM.
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Postby draughtergirl » Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:39 pm

Yeah! And I'm not going to Susie's birthday party either, cuz Bobbie will be there and he has cooties.

Make the bad people go away mommie. It's all about mememememe.

lalalala.
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Postby stargeezer » Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:54 pm

I have been trying to collect info about BM to determine if it is something I want to participate in. The most common response I have received is:

Burningman is what you make it!

If this is indeed correct as so many claim, than that also implies that for those of you who claim it sucks it is because

You made it suck!

Whining does not fix what you perceive is a problem so you have three choices:

1 Address the problem.
2 Change your perception.
3 Walk away and don't look back.

In short

Lead, Follow, or Get The Hell Out Of The Way!!
If you want to reach for the stars, you better have long arms!
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Postby Box Burner » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:04 am

Damn Stargeezer, You hit it on the head. Come and play with us!

Good to see you posting here. Missed you. Stop by the bar for a drink!
Dance in the heart of chaos. . . . .

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.
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Postby MikeVDS » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:12 am

Waiting in line out there???


Yep. I don't wait in the lines. There is much better stuff to do. We had one line in our camp for pig we cooked and another one day for a shower we left open for the public.
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:13 am

Village > Town > City
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home

Postby Natedg10 » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:46 pm

hells yeah, i've heard a lot of great opinions on this page -and none of them were made by the topic starter-

I wore a couple costumes, but most of the time walked around with shorts or nothing on. I didnt find that I was unwelcomed when I wasnt wearing costumes. In fact I have never felt so welcomed anywhere else

And thats the true spirit; not bitching about somebody for not doing something as small as costumes.

I can truly say that Burning man is my home. and will always be my home. i love the experience, and everybody there. thanks for welcoming me home, cant wait for next year!
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Postby Saki » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:47 pm

stargeezer wrote:I have been trying to collect info about BM to determine if it is something I want to participate in. The most common response I have received is:

Burningman is what you make it!

If this is indeed correct as so many claim, than that also implies that for those of you who claim it sucks it is because

You made it suck!

Whining does not fix what you perceive is a problem so you have three choices:

1 Address the problem.
2 Change your perception.
3 Walk away and don't look back.

In short

Lead, Follow, or Get The Hell Out Of The Way!!


No, Burning Man does really suck. Don't Go!
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Postby willyloafofphora » Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:19 pm

Who cares if virgins are wearing costumes or not. The issue is whether or not their pissing all over the playa and leaving moop every where. I saw a butt load of these things this year. However there are solutions to all problems. I enjoy yelling at the pissers its a good excuse to come up with inventive new insults. When some ass hole tried to leave his empty beer can in front of our camp my friend picked it up and gave it back to him. Then he said he had nowhere to put it threw it on the ground again and took off. We were understandably upset and chased after him and threw it at him and insulted him until he agreed to take it back to his car. If he had simply told us he was far away from his camp and sick of carrying an empty beer we would have happily taken it or told him about the recycling camp right down the block. I know some people would say that there are more positive ways of dealing with these issues than pelting people with their moop and I guess it could be considered asault but urinating in public can also be considered a sex crime. Anyways yelling and throwing things is the fun easy way to deal with certain problems. Any one have any better solutions or comments ?
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:56 am

You'd be surprised how many people stay home.
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Postby dogbone » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:34 am

Burning Man sucks now because YOU were there. Thanks for fucking up my week, Bitches!
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Postby Steven bradford » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:18 pm

For the person who asked about the Burma Shave style entrace signs, sorry I don't know if they're on line anywhere.

But I do know that the "Dear Burning Man Directors" sequence works perfectly as lyrics to the tune "Gee Officer Krupke" from West Side Story.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:03 pm

Okay, okay, in general I have a problem with people who fuck with people who have crappy retail counter jobs. something about picking on those who don't make a decent wage and have to be polite or they get in trouble with the boss. I know the situation at center camp cafe, but does anyone know to what extent they are allowed to fuck with customers in return? I mean can they refuse service to assholes? And then there's the having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent thing. At a certain point it just looks pathetic. So when does the right to act like a jackass end?
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Postby bigbluedoggy » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:42 pm

Hi Fishy,
As a Cafe Volunteer, I can tell you I have always had a blast working there. The afternoon shifts I had this year were pretty much non stop busy, including during the Friday storm. The price list reads Abuse: Free, but for our position and the one's next to us, I don't recall getting particularly snarky with anyone, unless of course they said "Hey, where's my free abuse?" at which point they generally got about 7 barrels pointed at them (including from others in line). It's all part of the fun of working there really. I know some folks think the whole Cafe thing is a sellout, but to me, it's just another way to get out of myself and meet lots of folks and have some fun. And the Chai ain't half bad either ;-) If anyone came up and was truly verging on "jackass" behavior, they generally got shot down by either their own friends or others in line before we even had a go at them. The whole vibe is usually very nice!

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Postby ZaphodBurner » Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:20 pm

"Why does Burningman suck now?"


Too many fucking whiners and burnouts bitching about how it was better last year who can't grasp the idea that if you keep riding the same rollercoaster, eventually it's not as fun or scary anymore.

I think everybody who has a beef against Burning Man ought to show solidarity for each other and stay home. That way, when those that -do- go wake up on Saturday and look around, suddenly they'll realize that the only people left are the ones who don't think it sucks.

That'll show 'em. Boy, won't -they- be surprised!

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Postby ziggidy » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:45 pm

I agree. Too many eejuts. Not enough ridiculous behavior.

This was the first year I didn't volunteer, because I've volunteered every year since 2000 and I wanted to volunteer to participate this year. I'll be back to it again next year, though, because I do believe it to be the best way for me, personally, to participate in the event.

Now: I am really proud of the man being as old as he is and still goin' strong, I really am. He's a powerful agent of the social development of our young culture. And the word is out now.

I think he's too big. And everyone I know who's an experienced burner says the same thing:
There's not enough investment from the freshmen! Too many people arrive on fucking Thursday and get handed a bottle of whiskey by some beautiful senior who wants to make them feel welcome, despite their tardiness to class, and its off to the races on a 3 legged horse.

I love BurningMan! It's even o.k. that it's too big.

STOP LETTING PEOPLE IN AFTER WEDNESDAY.

It's gotta be hard to resist the revenues that come from the weekend, I know. But there was a time when people HAD to participate. You all remember those days. The Ms. Quiettes were smoked out of their holes and forced to dance, goddammit. And they loved it. That is what changed all of our lives, remember?

And I know that a major question is looming in the minds of "the staff", in the wake of this year's event: What is the future of BurningMan?

Maybe they've got this pro-chaos take on anarchy.
Maybe they've got this buddhist-like passive leadership bent.
Maybe they've got stars in their eyes.
Maybe they're seeing the parallels between this experiment in social development and the one that's called America, and therefore see no reason to stop its movement.

I don't know. What I do know is that the ads in PissClear have GOT TO GO, whatever it takes. And INVESTMENT in the community is a Requirement, not an option, I HOPE. The only way to get that from everybody is to stop entry at some point during the week and it ain't just before the burn. It's mid-week, at latest.


I don't bitch, I'm not a bitcher. And the kid with a 9 person dome tent with no stakes, showing up on Friday, trying to set up camp next to me, has a right to figure it out, just as we all did.

I just think a little sense needs to be exercised. Think of how unbelievably expensive you could make the tickets if you capped your numbers and shut the gates on Wednesday.

It's already a hard week. Why not make it just a little bit harder.

Zach Rouse
Volunteer, Performer, Humboldt/BRC Resident
fascism- extreme dictatorship of the right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism-
The American Heritage Dictionary
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It's a must see event!

Postby DKitty » Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:48 am

Man, there's so much to debate on about whether or not BurningMan sucks.. but the reality is that as Burning Man becomes larger, you develop a condition where:

More People = Less Personal Responsibility

Studies show that humans, like wolves, dogs, rats, and other animals, are indeed pack animals. Everything2.com explains the phenomenon as such:

<hr>
People are designed to live in packs. There is speculation that our brains are the size that they are just so we can cope with our social position to each individual in a group — the brain size of animals scales linearly with the size of the packs that they roam in. From this scale, humans are ideally suited to live in groups of one hundred and fifty people.

Funnily enough, this is the basic size of a platoon in the Army. It’s the point at which a small company becomes a large company with hierarchy. It’s the point where people stop being your neighbours and become strangers. Basically, it’s the point you stop knowing everyone.
<hr>

While you don't have to know everyone in BM, I've noticed a trend towards less personal responsibility. Case in point - every morning when we made MOOP rounds of our theme camp, there were hundreds of empty water bottles, trash and various questionable items lying in the dust (used condoms, blinkies, fans, keys, etc.) In years past, people packed their trash home with them after a night, but recently, it seems that the larger BM has gotten, people have taken on the mentality of .. "someone else will clean it up" because I have no connection to the camp I'm visiting.

If I've ever bitched about anything regarding BM, it's one thing.. it's become the mainstream THING TO DO. People at work asked me about the man burning on Monday and was there *sex* and naked girls?? What? Burning man on CNN? An article in Business 2.0? Burning Man TV?

We have become a city. A large city. And in a city where you don't know your neighbor(s).. there are some that absolve themselves of personal responsibility to the community because they've become anonymous. They can trash the place and feel nothing for it.

I find myself having to defend the Man and the community. No, it's not a drug fueled sex party in the desert. No, it was green man this year.. yep, solar powered.. oh, you mean the huge fireball... well, no, that wasn't very green, but.... well, we rebuilt the man after the torching.. etc.

I don't believe in limiting who can come or who can't but I do think that BM should lock the gates on Wednesday/Thursday and reopen them on Sunday night, making it less likely that the weekender who read about this crazy party in the desert as a *must see* event (a glossy ad for fun things to do around America) rents an RV, drives out on Saturday, catches college football on his satellite dish, watches the burn from top of RV, dumps out his greywater the next day, Pro football on sunday, and drives off before the Temple Burn. As he drives off, he yells, Great Burn!

And I didn't even know his name. But I ended up cleaning up his moop.

<sarcasm> Oh well, maybe next year I'll just leave the moop there. And let someone ELSE deal with it. </sarcasm>
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Postby Teo del Fuego » Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:53 pm

ZaphodBurner wrote: if you keep riding the same rollercoaster, eventually it's not as fun or scary anymore.


poetic, yet spot on.
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Postby misfit » Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:40 pm

>>>>the Chai ain't half bad either <<<<

thanks BBD, the chai was excellent....
Be happy while you're living, For you're a long time dead.
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Give up? Or become vigilant...

Postby Alchemy » Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:53 am

Thats kinda a spectator perspective..if its going to shit then we need to become MORE INVOLVED!
If you dont go again..that means you ( a veteren of the old school) have lost your perspective. I doesnt have to suck.
I admit-this was by far the most watered down version and most aggrivating version of the burn ever but if we are gonna change the world or create an experiance -we have to be dedicated to its truthes and do our part to enrich the event.
Its growing
the post office went from becoming a theatre of Burning initiation and education-with delivering your mail as a consequence to becoming a whipping boy to the US postal service ( of whom we respect )
Delivering messages-stuffing your box since 1996 ( for on site messaging) grew to getting a pony express deal with gerlach post. But what we really hold dear is that we stand for a mainstay way of playa living and history as does the pony express..but arent tied down to your outside constraints..our motto has always been..
" There is no team in FUCK YOU!!"
this year we were slammed..our fun disolved when 20-000 noobs
thought we OWED them the same experiances in the default..we were responsible for 20,000 pieces of federal post and like 40 on playa cards..!!
we fell into crisis at the harsh lil firesde meeting about our " Manners"
we are ASSHOLES
but many dip shit virgins and dorks with egos (who we happily target and befriend after spanking with prankticle playa reportee
complained to the offices and to the gerlach post about how .."mean" we are..
READ THE FUCKING MANUAL!!!
we dont owe anybody anything.
we's jus volunteers up n here..
NEXT!
I beleive part of the problem is that BM is too accomodating to the noobs
Half the experiance is the trials of getting there..
then the WELCOME HOME
and then after researching the Burningman reality-its history
its threads and links-its blogs and groups and tribes...
you buy yer ticket and investigate the burning world.
Very few people seemed to be following the tenants we depend upon
much was taken for granted..including thinking that BM is a constant .
The noobz and the virgins..just didnt seem to have studied up..didnt read the MANual.
old schoolers did and still do...
Tuff love...The desert is a harsh mistress
I thought it was worth leaving early...what would I miss? more bitching and SLOW DOWN!! more bs costumes-half ass art -and politically trendy bs?
would I miss the complete lack of creativity by the majority of burners..lack of gifts..lack of commitment..
Paul Addic
whata hoot.
DID anyone read the bitch off dear burningman directors envokation signs or did you all just take them for granted too?
Wasnt there a closing bit about burning the man early...on monday ect..?
Hard to tell cuz so many people in un decorated cars and rvs covered in comercial props not bothered to be covered..were racing in ahead despite the signs 5 mph shpeal..blocking my read of the signs with dust clouds...
I asked them all while in line.." Why didnt you cover your Corp Crap? Decore your car..? Their answers were lame and they seemed uninformed..
Paul Addic fucked my burn.
He popped down offa a scaffold to inform ME off the playa rules..he was hot about it..I at first thought he was kidding..then he mannaged to sepparate me from my group while on camp hunt
DICK!!
we had words
I accused him of being on the Crack
He scketched off and left me to my grumblings..
i reported him for being a dick
I cursed him for making my journey EVEN LONGER
I got drunk and retold his playa tale to some buds over vodka and tears and laffs with Piccasso Camp
Just another jerk at the Burn..someone should kick his ass..
we desided to..
we got proactive about our burn experiance..
we couldnt find him
but he found us later back at the camp..
INCREDIBLE!! we totally heckeled him off..Whata Dick!
Then he showed us..
he did the ultimate Burner prank
the ultimate act..
He burned the man...
Fuck your burn hippie!
It was magnificent=hillarious..put us all on our mark..
and completely confused the whole event as we know it.
But as shitty as it seemed at times
THAT WAS OK.
You need to stay loose..ready for the unpredictable and the ironic..
and you gotta stay present and set the marker for the lost.

Thats right asshole darling...if you dont have a cup you cant drink at my bar..
if you dont understand gifting..you better learn..its not what you buy..its something else..
your costume is missing
your art car sucks
...directions? didnt you get a map?

CLUE THEM IN with the finger and a grin..
we are the upper classmen to a universe city
haze them
fuck them if they cant get the joke.
we dont need there money
or there lack of preparation..the LLC responds only to how we experiance the event
if you dont continue to experiance it..to make Black Rock your personal city..
well than your a poopy head and a spectator..
You cant expect someone else to care about the purity of the event if you wont
you cant expect Burningman to provide you a great time..
you need to be active in that creating the great time.
Now quit whinnin and start concocting some crazy shanannigans-tom foolerey and some art for next year.
burningman is MY AMERICAN DREAM...
but jeezus christ on a stick..after this year I hope the tone down the rediculous firework dependancy
2008 will be rediculous....
I hope when he raises his arms hes holding a little neon flag...
cool!
READ YOUR MANual fuckers!!!
Burningman Forever!!!
got fire?
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Postby MikeVDS » Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:41 am

Fuck you Alchemy.

Love,
MikeVDS

:twisted:
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Re: It's a must see event!

Postby Ugly Dougly » Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:26 am

DKitty wrote:Studies show that humans, like wolves, dogs, rats, and other animals, are indeed pack animals. Everything2.com explains the phenomenon as such:


This is what I've been hooting about for many eons:
Dunbar's Number

Keep it under 150 and you have a warm, responible group. Go to 80,000 and you should not be surprised at the results. You don't fuck with mother nature.
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my heart bleeds for you

Postby flaming fag » Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:52 pm

maybe burning man might not be cool without you!!OMG! what will everyone wear??God forbid anyone be caught in dockers!!
get over yourself.Try to understand what brings people out there,certainly not costumes.why don't you try nudity sometime....liberate yourself.
Be forgiving in nature
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Re: my heart bleeds for you

Postby Ugly Dougly » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:13 am

flaming fag wrote:Be forgiving in nature.

That was truly inspiring.
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ooooooo uh OUCH!

Postby Alchemy » Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:56 am

MikeVDS wrote:Fuck you Alchemy.

Love,
MikeVDS

:twisted:


SEE!
PARTICIPATION!!
a true fucking BURNER!
A noob would be all..
" You Burn chick are so hot! Do you have a boyfriend? huh huh !"
But Mr. MIke is FAMILIAR with the culture and its very special venacular-and customs...
To fuck anything requires PARTICIPATION!!!
And I in turn with all proper respect for the customs and manner will respond in kind by saying..
{ to be read in a brittish accent for extra shits and giggles}
" Why yes, fellow participant and citizen of the dust and flame..
FUCK YOU TOO and the U-HAUL you road in with..but didnt eeeeven bother to cover the offending logo..Yes FUCK YOU your BURN and GET THE FUCK OFF MY LAWN you lazy dirty Hippie!! Go write some cool trendy protest songs about how you suck smog thru tear stained moustache hairs of your free love hippy bitch glazed facial hair you refuse to wash because soap aint cruelty free!"
And Im quite sure the proper closing to such colorful and liberating radical self expression would end as I punctuate the affore mentioned glad tidings with the double shot of the middle fingers -fist held curtly and tightly just below the nipples..the left hand slightly higher than the right so as to show one and all posture counts.

:D
got fire?
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Costumes?!

Postby sun4all » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:26 am

Maybe some of us hard working art types are too busy doing/seeing art at BM to be bothered with costumes! When you are working on a project non-stop, costumes are the LAST thing you think about. People should wear what they want to wear and that includes 'street clothes'.

The whole costume issue hits at one of my pet peeves. People often categorize others based on what they wear (which is really so high schoolish). I don't need to be painted up, dressed in wild colors with platform boots on to be artsy. I'm artsy through what I create.
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Postby Barbie » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:31 pm

Okay I have been holding back my bitch fest about this year...But hear goes...the camp I hang with always has a portapottie-its for them-there camp and visitors to bar that really really really HAVE TO GO...

WHY DID THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD USE THE PORTAPOTTIE???? THEY WERE CAMPED LESS THAN A BLOCK FROM THE OTHER PORTAPOTTIES!!!!! JUST PLAIN RUDE I'LL BET NONE OF THEM EVEN OFFERED MONEY TO HAVE IT CLEANED. (which they 'the camp' had to have done every day)

SIT THE FUCK DOWN IF YOUR IN THE FIRST 20 ROWS OF ANY OF THE BURNS....IF YOU WANT TO STAND UP GO BACK A LITTLE WAYS

LEAVE YOUR FUCKING BIKE HOME THE NIGHT OF THE BURN
(and if you have to bring it don't bring it any closer than say maybe the 20th row) and a big"FUCK YOU YOUR RUDE ASSHOLES" to the group of people in the 2 row of crude awaking burn standing with there bikes

PICK UP YOUR TRASH (I can not believe all the trash I saw at floating around...at one point a ran out from my camp to catch a black trash bag
that 3 people on bikes just let blow past them....don't even get me started on the bags LEFT at the portapotties )

Other than those minor things- I had the best 2weeks of my life!!!!!!
If I were to wish ANYTHING I'd wish I were ME!!
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