Carding @ Burning Man for a New Bar in 2007

Postby Mozy bonz » Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:46 am

jc wrote:I obviously look and am over 40. But would you card me to make me feel good?



OK lets see some ID? Do we need to frisk you too? Let see here.... jc if that is your real name… Heheheheh....
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Postby mdmf007 » Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:50 am

Sue -
your right spot on, it isnt hard to check ID's but what i was getting at is that I rarely have my ID on me, because id just lose it and looking at some of the costumes out at night I bet a good percentage do not have their ID on them.

If i have my laminate I am working - so drinking isnt an option at that point anyways. I was coming from the off shift - (dressed as a samurai angle) I guess I had tunnel vision and wasnt thinking about all the little miscreants trying to sneak in to a party.

I own a bar in a college town, and know the undercover stings, fines and negative PR that can come with a contributing charge.

I was trying to point out that security at some camps is non-existant as there are multiple entrances, and some partys have 2000 people or more.

Upon thinking about it more, I suggest bringing the ID. (I guess i have never needed it cause I look old enough, and always have - Havent been carded in a decade)

later all -
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Postby Mozy bonz » Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:13 am

mdmf007 wrote:Sue -
your right spot on, it isnt hard to check ID's but what i was getting at is that I rarely have my ID on me, because id just lose it and looking at some of the costumes out at night I bet a good percentage do not have their ID on them.

If i have my laminate I am working - so drinking isnt an option at that point anyways. I was coming from the off shift - (dressed as a samurai angle) I guess I had tunnel vision and wasnt thinking about all the little miscreants trying to sneak in to a party.

I own a bar in a college town, and know the undercover stings, fines and negative PR that can come with a contributing charge.

I was trying to point out that security at some camps is non-existant as there are multiple entrances, and some partys have 2000 people or more.

Upon thinking about it more, I suggest bringing the ID. (I guess i have never needed it cause I look old enough, and always have - Havent been carded in a decade)

later all -


I feel you security can be a problem...I have never been carded ever... I could buy beer at 16. Sad but true.

Really running a bar at BM is no different than a real bar You can sill have fun with it and ask every one but if they look old enough really no needs to ask. Would you like to spin the wheel of booze? #2 gets the bar tender a *KISS* Werzzzzzzzz****click*click*click*******
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Postby Lorgasm » Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:26 am

Big Hug to Mozy for his hard work at the Eplaya Bar. It was nonstop for him and the other bartenders askin for age and such. It made the other "patron's" feel safe as well; knowing that we are a serious bar and we no want no drama. There were NO problems.

Of course aside from from the safe part, we all had a Very Good Time.
I repeat....A VERY GOOD TIME!!!!!

And can you imagine if there were no laws at Burningman. Sure it would be fun but think of all the drunk 9 year olds runnin around. That would be scary.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:10 pm

Even worse would be the drunk 9 year olds with automatic weapons.
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Postby unjonharley » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:29 pm

Bummer, They didn't card me at the old folks home... I knew dirt when it was a rock.
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Postby munney » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:06 am

OK. This must be your virgin Burn, YES? IF not than how about having a CLUE, Dont be a Dusche Knozzle, and PAAAAAAAA LEEEEEEEAAASSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!! Dont Card,

Has anyone ever Carded anyone at BRC? NO, I think GNOT!

For now, if one Feels compelled to cary an ID then use the international traveler model and make a COLOR PHOTO COPY,,, DUHH!

I hope I dont seem too perterbed, yet PAAAAAAAAAAAA LEEEEEEEAAASSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!, Carding?, IT's Burning Man for Peets Sake

I know they outlawed Camp Drive By Shooting, but Carding People should come only after they ban Feather Boas and Glitter... :lol:

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Postby griffin » Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:37 am

Simply suggesting not to card because it's uncool is pretty ignorant advice.

Getting drunk, or getting minors drunk is not a part of the burning man ethos.

Nor is there any reason to make somebody feel bad about being a first timer. We all were once, and one thing I've learned over the years is that virgins often bring more to the experience then veterans.

It is true that very few, if any, people will be carrying an ID with them at burning man. But the question at hand is how carefull do those of us that serve alcohol need to be. That is a good, and valid question.

The facts are that minors don't hold their alcohol as well as us seasoned profesional drinkers do. Law enforcement does have the right to send undercover minors in to camps in an attempt to sting that camp. All federal and state laws still exist within the orange fence. And kids shouldn't be drinking anyway. If you are such an experienced burner, then you should be able to explain to kids trying to get booze, why they don't need to be drunk at burning man. Explain that the community, connections, and creativity are more important than partying.

My best answer, is that you don't necessarily need to card, but just be careful.
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Re: PAAAAAAAAAAAA LEEEEEEEAAASSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Lassen Forge » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:16 am

Must be January - out of the woodwork they crawl...

Sum Dum Bunny named munney wrote: OK. This must be your virgin Burn, YES?


OK, like... NOT. We run a bar. Obviously one you ain't been to, since you ain't old enough to drink.

Now I wanna sound like a cop munney wrote: IF not than how about having a CLUE, Dont be a Dusche Knozzle, and PAAAAAAAA LEEEEEEEAAASSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!! Dont Card,


Only ones that give this advice are narcs and underage kids. You sound like the latter. About, what... 13? Clueless enough...

munney, now showing his cluelessness, then wrote:Has anyone ever Carded anyone at BRC? NO, I think GNOT!


Yes, I think so. You GOTTA be a virgin. A clueless virgin. Yep...

And, to top it off, in a bit of absolutely **brilliant** advice, munney wrote: For now, if one Feels compelled to cary an ID then use the international traveler model and make a COLOR PHOTO COPY,,, DUHH!


And don't get served. DUHH! What planet are you from, dude? Land of the Lost? Get a Clue, Fool, and off the tip of my Shoe wit' choo.....
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Postby Lassen Forge » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:26 am

The law sez... Federal land? Dispensing booze? Card yer customers...

BRC asks it's bar operators - Card yer customers...

PCSO and WCSO sez, "You don't make sure they're not minors, yer goin' to jail"...

As I have said here before, over and over, and over... You wanna get your camp shut down, your butt evicted with exactly 60 minutes to pack your camp and git off the property, piss off your friends, look like a total dweeb, AND go to jail, go to court, pay a honkin' big-ass fine, then take your chances. I won't stop you... but I'll still be INSIDE of BRC having fun while you're OUTSIDE goin' the f*** home.

And to the "I don't have anywhere to carry my ID" crowd... You carry your ticket stub, right?

And at that, take it or leave it, I'm done. Not worth arguing with people who haven't been there first hand yet, think they can "get away" with it. Good luck.

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Postby pinemom » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:37 am

Eplaya bar ALWAYS cards!!!!!!!!!

hehee BBsue, are we suppose to carry our ticket stub....WOOPS!
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Postby MikeVDS » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:05 am

[quote]

And to the "I don't have anywhere to carry my ID" crowd... You carry your ticket stub, right?
[/quote]

I don't do either. If you're not going out of the festival, is there any reason to keep it with you?
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Postby PrincessLea » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:08 am

I was 23 last year, and look younger than my age, and was never id'd. We also had a small bar at our camp, and never id'd. As long as they looked it, we didn't even think about it. It's probably a good idea to id young-looking people; I'm just giving my experience. I'm sure that if you plan on having a BIG bar/club in a busy part of the city, you should id. And that's my two cents.
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Postby Burp! » Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:02 pm

I got an idea, don't do a bar, there will be 1000's of other people doing that on the playa. How building a dome and schilling out music.... oh wait, nevermind


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Postby doberman » Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:23 pm

i am a 32 year old virgin from over the pond even, i have to regularly ID myslef if i am entering clubs. and hey, this is switzerland, here, you just get a fine for consumation of weed, and its brought up every two years to legalisze ALL SORTS OF SUBSTANCES..

do i have to bring my id-card? (which no-one is ever being able to read, since its GERMAN..)

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Postby The CO » Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:49 pm

My two pesos...

Munney, in answer to your question, yes people card out there. Not everyone, just those smart enough to cover their asses. Above and beyond potential criminal charges, if you serve alchohol to a minor and they get injured, you then become open to a civil court case-I.E., you can be sued by the parents of that minor for anything that happens to them while intoxicated. This is why cops ask where you were drinking when you get pulled over for DUI. In many states, the bartender serving can be fined or prosecuted.

On the subject of ID: You really should carry some form of govt. recognized ID & your ticket stub at all times. Yes, it's a pain, but here's why:

If you get busted by the LEO's for any reason, and you don't have ID, they can hold you till you provide valid identification. You left it back at camp? That's fine, the LEOs will gladly escort you back to your tent to get it, and search your tent and vehicle while they're at it. So what do you have in your tent? Drugs? Illegal fireworks? Firearms? Congratulations, now you're even more busted. And with a bit of pushing, they may even search the tents and cars of your campmates. Now your busted and your fellow campers are unhappy with you. You can refuse to show them where your tent is, but without ID they just take you to holding/jail till you decide to cooperate.

Not just talking theoreticals; this happened to a campmate of mine in 2002. He got popped on playa for smoking the ganja(which, yes, is illegal), and had the exact situation described above. It only went as far as his tent and vehicle, but the cops confiscated everything illicit and the $2000 cash he had, presuming it to be "drug profits". Needless to say, a downer experiance for his first year.

So, yeah, at the very least, make a color copy of your ID & use clear paking tape to attatch it to your water bottle. That way, if your ID ain't with you, you've got bigger problems.
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Postby BAS » Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:02 pm

I'm still curious about why I should carry my ticket stub with me? (I did keep my driver's license with me, mostly in case I managed to get myself knocked unconcious somewhere or something equally as bad.) As far as I know, the ticket stub is only needed if I were to decide to go out of BRC and return. Is it needed other times?

Just wondering.

Thanks.

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Postby The CO » Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:51 pm

It's not likely, but see my previous post. If you have no ID & no ticket, they can assume that you may have snuck in. Especially if you are in the situation described there... No ticket, no ID, won't show cops your camp, they can jump to that conclusion pretty easy.
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Postby mdmf007 » Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:58 pm

I dont carry my id on me (I lose things all the time) all of the mercury, and lead exposure in my life has made me pretty absent minded. If I takeit with me I guarantee you I am losing it.

I guess its really comes down to personnal preference.

Heres a nice case of Officer Dove In Winnemucca Nevada, It went to the United States Supreme Court. Case at hand Do you need to show ID when asked by a commissioned officer?
http://www.papersplease.org/hiibel/


In Nevada The statute at question is to provide your name either verbally or written. I asm not an attorney, and may be wrong here but this is how it was explained to me by an attorney. So unless you are ARRESTED, you do not have to produce a "Drivers License" or other state issued ID. Merely stating your name satisfies the statute.
If your arrested thats another story.

Justice Kennedy writing for the majority

As we understand
it, the statute does not require a suspect to give the
officer a driverÂ’s license or any other document. Provided
that the suspect either states his name or communicates it
to the officer by other means—a choice, we assume, that
the suspect may make—the statute is satisfied and no
violation occurs. See id., at ___, 59 P. 3d, at 1206–1207.


I was in Winnemucca when this happened, and I remember that this story never went away.

Later all.
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Postby BAS » Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:40 pm

Well, since I take my i.d. with me, and don't think it would be likely that I would have a reason not to show the cops my camp, I probably won't take my ticket stub with me. I'd be more likely to lose it somewhere. My driver's license is, comparatively speaking, much cheaper and easier to replace.


Thanks.


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Ticket Stub

Postby Eric » Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:57 am

The other reason for carrying your ticket stub is in case you unexpectedly leave the event because you're injured, and don't have the presence of mind to grab it before being air-evac'd. Not a common circumstance, but it has happened.

I keep my ID & ticket stub in a closed pocket in the pouch that stays on me 90% of the time. I only open that pocket to put them in, and so far only again at the end of the week to take them out again. But they're there, just in case.

Me? Paranoid? Nah- just Jewish.
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Postby mdmf007 » Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:05 am

I wonder how many people airlifted out make it back to the playa for the same event?

later all
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Postby Lassen Forge » Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:19 am

The other reason is it shows you are authorized to be within the BLM closure area, and if you can't produce the thing on demand you can be ejected for trespassing.

If you are medevac'd out you're on a list and can get back in. There are also ways for your campmates or friends to get a one time free in-and-out to retreive you from Reno. A lot of people who have been 'lifted out come back, tho I don't know the numbers, and am not sure they are even available. But it'd be a kewl bit of trivia to know what % of medevac'd participants return for the burn, I'm sure a large % of them do. I know I would if I could get back!!!

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Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:58 am

Scott came back after his 2nd medivac. (his 1st was post-event.)
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Postby dragonfly Jafe » Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:46 pm

MikeVDS wrote:I don't do either. If you're not going out of the festival, is there any reason to keep it with you?


If you are transported away (either by the LEO's or REMSA) you will need a stub to get back in. Or buy a new ticket (assuming they are still selling them).

I don't carry either at BRC. But then I am a grey-haired old fart, and look it. If I ever get transported away, I plan on either staying away until after the event, or hoping that a camp member will come save me...

As far as asking for ID, we just ask questionable looking persons if they are 21+.
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Postby Sean » Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:22 pm

I have always wondered, is the word of the law that you have to card everyone even if they are beyond a doubt over 21?
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Postby pinemom » Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:43 am

Bartender for eplaya bar camp...the booby bar...I WILL CARD YOU!
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Postby skeetsh00ter » Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:05 am

[quote="Sean"]I have always wondered, is the word of the law that you have to card everyone even if they are beyond a doubt over 21?[/quote]

as I understand it yes. i have a friend who was recently complaining that her manager at the restaurant she works at wouldn't let her serve a man (who appeared to be at least 50) that didn't have an id. thats how it is in georgia at least.

and ps i'm dumb and can't figure out how to quote people...my bad.
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Postby MikeVDS » Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:06 pm

thats how it is in georgia at least

Well based on what you say that's at least how it is in that one particular establishment. I've heard similar stories here in California, but also I have rarely been carded in my life since I've always looked a little older. There are those places (clubs usually) that card everyone. I used to have a hair sticker on my ID that made it look like I had a funny hair-do. Clubs didn't care, Airports didn't care, the police scanned my ID for a background check and their records with the sticker on, yet I got carded at a bowling alley and they made me peel it off. Really depends on who you're dealing with and how paranoid they are.

We'll probably run a small bar and ask if they look questionable, since it appears that will comply with the Nevada law. Usually if you act reasonably, you'll be treated reasonably.
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Postby DustDr » Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:12 am

Usually we could pick out the underage drinkers at bar because they were the ones that were really drunk and acting like Aholes.

How about a quick carding at the Greeters Gate and distributing wrist bands for legal age drinkers? This is done at most venues that have liqour available. If too much for the greeters, how about stratigically place booths around BRC that could card and provide Drinking Age Wrist Bands. This would sure help all the people spending thousands of dollars to give away free liqour. It would alleviate bullshit of Liqour Control Cops harrassing well intended, friendly people. It just couldn't be that hard for BMORG to aid the community on this, instead of having the stinkin' Government Liqour Cops doing it to add funds to their own coffers...
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