May I assume generators are right out next year?

Postby unjonharley » Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:00 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:
unjonharley wrote:As far as that damn Caption go's, He is so ugly.. When he looks into the water his reflecton gets sick.. I hope enough new has worn off his new boat that he is present at BM this year. Without him there leaves me the uglyest man at BM.

So I'm off the hook. Nice.



/

No way, Unless your of the same subspecies as that Caption.
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Postby Captain Goddammit » Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:17 pm

goddammit.
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Postby dadinpain » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:10 am

[quote="Dr. Pyro"]So am I the only one who thought that The Green Man referred to money?[/quote]

Nope....I thought it was for the Herb. The mother plant. The Magic Green Medicine. Well tell ya what. Ill be there with my green burning man joint in one hand, and a beer in the other. Its self expression. Make it what you want. As far as the generator goes: I know someone will need a few outlets or extension cords to charge up batteries for flashlights, movie cameras or heck who knows. The possibilities are endless. OK Im faded and need to roll a burning man. LOL

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Generous Donor

Postby [CDS] topher » Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:32 pm

What we need is a very generous donor/participator from one of the few successful dot-com-era companies to donate a HUGS solar array and battery bank, which would then become the property of BMorg.

This would allow for at least limited power for a) center camp b) street signs, c) theme camps, d) other camps, e) art installations - there are ways to limit the amount of kwH consumed by any given connection, so this is a workable idea, if someone who's worth more than seven or eight figures (a surprising # at BM...) would simply step up to the plate.
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Postby BAS » Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:35 pm

if someone who's worth more than seven or eight figures (a surprising # at BM...) would simply step up to the plate.


I was just working on my finances-- I'm worth 2 figures, if you count the decimal places.... :?


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Postby [CDS] topher » Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:38 pm

[quote="BAS"][quote]if someone who's worth more than seven or eight figures (a surprising # at BM...) would simply step up to the plate.[/quote]

I was just working on my finances-- I'm worth 2 figures, if you count the decimal places....[/quote]

Yeah....after the extraordinary expenditures I made in '99 and '00, I can contriute two, maybe even figures if get a good mortgage deal.

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Generators are NOT OUT!

Postby pyrotix » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:22 pm

YOU DON'T HAVE TO DITCH YOUR GENERATORS

Don't worry, the sky is not falling. Ideally, the best place to restrict carbon emissions is at the point of pollution - ie your generator's exhaust.

However, there are alternatives: calculate the amount of carbon your Burn produces and find the best way to offset your environmental footprint. This may include switching to public transit the rest of the year instead of driving a car (which you should be doing anyway), changing all the lightbulbs in your house to compact, buying renewable energy from your local utility (such as Bullfrog Power in Toronto) or donating to Cooling Man.
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Postby griffin » Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:32 am

I foresee thousands of virgin burners wearing their St. Patrick's day crap, and decorating their camp with the same. Oriental trading better stock up!!!

My camp has been looking into using 12 volt batteries or solar power during the day. This might be the year. All we run during the day is our stereo, but at night, we've got lights, and the stereo going. I don't think we could efficiently run all that on batteries. I think the waste generated from all those batteries is worse than our very efficient and quiet honda generator.

I'm also planning a multi projection art project, which will require a lot of power. I'll have to show some environmental documentaries to make up for it I guess.

With all that said, I must admit, I've always been just slightly bothered by the waste of burning man. I was happy to see the Burners Without Borders donation stations last year for discarged wood. I've always hated seeing so many camps burning all that good wood. The waffle last year was a tragedy on this point. I know it was factory seconds, but a lot could have been built with that.

I think if we focus on making things a little cleaner, and a little better every year, that that is the best we can ask for as a community. And if a lot of camps rethink things this year, they will probably keep and use those same ideas in years to come, thus making things a little better year after year.
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Re: Generous Donor

Postby Ugly Dougly » Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:20 am

[CDS] topher wrote:What we need is a very generous donor/participator from one of the few successful dot-com-era companies to donate a HUGS solar array and battery bank, which would then become the property of BMorg.

In exchange for naming rights:
The Gates Foundation presents: Burningman (no nudity in the Family zone please!)
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Postby timburly » Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:26 pm

There seems to be plenty of wind on the playa so....how about a project to harness that power.

http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_experiments.html

For lighting I'm planning on using LED's this year. White LED's on a string. I use pinpong balls as a diffusion lense. And if you grind down the end of the LED it will help with the diffusion in that ping pong ball. Each one uses about 20mA at 3.5 volts. Its not the brightest light but it sure does work as a nice soft light in camp.
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Postby diane o'thirst » Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:08 pm

I noticed boxes of LED faerie lights at my local Winco for $4. I'll be snagging a few but probably won't bring them to the Playa. I'm trying to stay away from deep cycle batteries and focus primarily on solar and NiMH.

I was cleaning out my closets last week and found my Big Box o' Lights. Half the strings were busted. I discovered solar-powered strings and spotlights last year and they worked so well I'm getting more of those.

Edit: Sportsman's Guide has LED kerosene-type lamps for $25, I'll probably get a couple of those, for my shelter and for the kitchen.
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:24 am

Seriously, it would be an interesting challenge to have a camp that was entirely pre-industrial.

Has anyone tried this and lived to tell the tale?
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Postby unjonharley » Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:54 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:Seriously, it would be an interesting challenge to have a camp that was entirely pre-industrial.

Has anyone tried this and lived to tell the tale?


/
I would like to try that. There is no way a person could get all the materials used. So are there any rules. Like,, could I build a caravan from modern stuff? Also I would have to stay with food safety. Already most of my food is in dry form.
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Postby AntiM » Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:59 am

Seriously, it would be an interesting challenge to have a camp that was entirely pre-industrial.

Has anyone tried this and lived to tell the tale?


Ah, we'd need SCA Nazis for that. "That's not period! That's machine stitching!"
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Postby SilkenTofu » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:43 pm

I foresee thousands of virgin burners wearing their St. Patrick's day crap, and decorating their camp with the same. Oriental trading better stock up!!!


I can see this happening. I plan on pissing green the whole time I am out there.

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Postby Toolmaker » Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:27 pm

unjonharley wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:Seriously, it would be an interesting challenge to have a camp that was entirely pre-industrial.

Has anyone tried this and lived to tell the tale?


/
I would like to try that. There is no way a person could get all the materials used. So are there any rules. Like,, could I build a caravan from modern stuff? Also I would have to stay with food safety. Already most of my food is in dry form.



What date range are you referencing? 1800s? Lodging isnt going to be the problem, food is more work to get but possible. A dome would be out tho, but a giant teepee would be kickass. I could live on rice, beans, noddles and such for a week. Getting it there would be a chore if you cant drive your stuff to the playa. A camp like that would be a great challenge on any scale. Making your own gear will be a decent challenge for those that don't want to rough it too much. Having a nice sturdy hemp bag collection you can rest assured they will hold up better than whats made these days. A great excuse to run around in a loin cloth for a week nontheless.
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Postby AntiM » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:03 pm

There's still folks who re-enact the Mormon handcart trek. Depending on your start point, it should be possible ... but dang you'd be tired. And if you're coming from the east, the salt flats in Utah and the forty mile desert in NV would be a bitch.
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Postby [CDS] topher » Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:15 am

[quote]I can see this happening. I plan on pissing green the whole time I am out there.
[/quote]

1 vote for fuunniest thing in this thread so far...
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Postby dieselcruiserhead » Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:15 pm

I haven't had a chance to read the whole thread but if it wasn't mentioned, diesel generators on biodiesel are 80% less greenhouse gas and is renewable.. Hope it helps. They are generally more expensive, it would be neat to have some sort of grid system where perhaps camps could share power? Diesels generally have more power output than smaller gas generators..
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Postby pbmaniac2000 » Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:54 pm

I think the green man theme is not about being "generator free" or saving mother earth. I think the people of bm immediatly took it to be that. I see it as more of a celebration of the beauty of the earth. Not what man has or will do to it. My art project this year will require a genny. There is no way you can power a lighting console, a giant fan, and 20+ intelligent lights off of a few solar panels. Its not practical. My project will celebrate the beauty in water as light reflects through it. So it is a green theme project. It is not "enviromentally friendly." Like a few people in here have said. I find it hypocritical to drive a beater rv that couldn't pass an emissions test to save its life, getting 9 miles to the gallon, 1,500 miles to the playa then using solar panels to cook your dinner and calling yourself eco friendly.
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Postby Captain Goddammit » Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:34 am

pbmaniac2000 wrote:I think the green man theme is not about being "generator free" or saving mother earth. I think the people of bm immediatly took it to be that. I see it as more of a celebration of the beauty of the earth. Not what man has or will do to it. My art project this year will require a genny. There is no way you can power a lighting console, a giant fan, and 20+ intelligent lights off of a few solar panels. Its not practical. My project will celebrate the beauty in water as light reflects through it. So it is a green theme project. It is not "enviromentally friendly." Like a few people in here have said. I find it hypocritical to drive a beater rv that couldn't pass an emissions test to save its life, getting 9 miles to the gallon, 1,500 miles to the playa then using solar panels to cook your dinner and calling yourself eco friendly.



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Postby unjonharley » Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:09 pm

This Green Theme has gotten all side ways..


The write up ask burners to green forward in the defualt world to off set the Burning Man bio foot print.

/
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Postby gaminwench » Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:56 pm

but, you CAN get a whole block of Burning Man fun running off of one bio-diesel genny- we did it last year- if enuff of us move on this, once we have placement, then we CAN have some effect on the whole! Coordinate with your neighbors, build community, and be (somewhat) *green*...and get rid of the noise and smell...
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Postby gyre » Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:57 am

The green man is representative of the cycle of nature.

Black Rock City is the least fuel efficient city on the planet if you count propane.
I think we can be proud of that.

I'll be hooked to a 70 kilowatt generator next year.

By the way, fluorescents outperform leds except for portability.
12 volt fluorescents are available, ballast or complete.
LEDs work better for headlamps.
I use a 3 watt. Should I mention brands?
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Postby diane o'thirst » Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:42 pm

I saw an LED lantern that was patterned off our friends the kerosene lantern. No muss, no fuss, but it was more than the flourescent Colemans, $26! Image

Still...LEDs shed more light, the batteries last longer, and IMO the kerosene-type lantern looks better.
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Postby unjonharley » Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:51 pm

diane o'thirst wrote:I saw an LED lantern that was patterned off our friends the kerosene lantern. No muss, no fuss, but it was more than the flourescent Colemans, $26! Image

Still...LEDs shed more light, the batteries last longer, and IMO the kerosene-type lantern looks better.



/
Just got back from K-Mart, They have a whined-up LED lantern $14.99..
Going back this afternoon and buy one. Now I'm looking for whined-up weather station radio.
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Postby diane o'thirst » Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:54 pm

Dammit! There used to be a K-Mart right next to me. Closed about four years ago Image

*Sigh* Off to Shopko, I guess...
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Postby unjonharley » Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:00 pm

diane o'thirst wrote:Dammit! There used to be a K-Mart right next to me. Closed about four years ago Image

*Sigh* Off to Shopko, I guess...


/
Hold up on that trip, I'll let you know what name brand it is. So you can search it. Shopko is a dirty word to my billfold. Your in Springfield??
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Postby gyre » Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:17 pm

Considering equipment of good quality,
LEDs consume more power for the light generated.
It can be difficult to get proper data on leds, but I did.
In very low power levels, LEDs are not bad, but they don't come even close to fluorescents when you get to a 9 watt PL type electronic fluorescent.
Sylvania rates their 5 watt PL at 230 lumens.
The 9 watt is 520 lumens, the 13 watt is 720 lumens.
Fluorescents can dim or need more power when cold.
The Luxeon 1 watt LED is about 25 lumens.
The 3 watt is around 75 lumens.
LED output decreases with heat.
This is their biggest problem.
They should be used with a pulse wave modulation type power supply for maximum brightness and always for dimming. The cheap units are not built like this, including the 3watt one I use.
Nitehawk has one. It has six brightness settings.

The LED compactness makes it suitable for focused beam lighting and it can run off a smaller battery pack.
The next step up in headlamps is HID or high intensity discharge, which is available in headlamps and bike lamps. These can be 10 or 20 watts.
These are similar to HID auto headlamps.
Think more money and more light.
I think these are too intense for burning man in the city.

Coleman has an 11 watt fluorescent flashlight/lantern I use.
It has a wide angle beam, very useful.
12 volt fluorescents are available up to 40 watts or you can use an inverter.
PL-S types are generally the most efficient version.
LED kits are available from elektrolumens and others.
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Green Man is a worthy man

Postby badphish » Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:58 am

Some balk at the idea & difficulty associated with a "Green Man" theme. The "green" devices/methods we now know are expensive, inefficient, and somewhat cumbersome. Baby steps my friends, baby steps. Buying these "contraptions" now puts money into those pockets who are putting money into "green" research. Do you think the first automobile was inexpensive & only needed an oil change once a year? Hardly.

It's hard to find a trade off between a sharing economy and this capitalist country we all love to say we hate, but won't leave. Do what you can, learn as much as possible, and keep the creative juces flowing. Our dependence on intolerant societies is really breeding hate. If we foster interdependence closer to home, then we can place those saved dollars where they can really do something good elsewhere.

And don't forget our dear friend mary jane.
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