 |
|
|
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
fciron
Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 606
Location: Louisville, KY
|
 Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:25 am Post subject: Major violation of the 'Decommodification' principle? |
 |
|
http://www.cnbc.com/id/32626011
Has anybody else seen this press release on CNBC?
Ola Loa, LLC makes a vitamin/hydration drink mix and they just issued a press release about being carried at the Center Camp cafe. They are very careful not to say that they are an 'official' supplier or even say that they've been chosen by anyone, so it's probably not Larry Harvey selling out. Frankly, I don't care if they donated five tons of the stuff to the Cafe, that kind of press release is still bullshit. I hope BMOrg is lawyering up on that. Any word on this from the LLC would be nice, KTHNXBAI.
What next? "Strickland Propane is proud to be supplying liquified natural gas explosive power to the art installations of the mega festival Burning Man!!!"
Last edited by fciron on Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:28 am; edited 1 time in total. (0 percent) |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Dork
Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Posts: 1975
Location: Sydney (for now)
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Newbies "often require hospitalization" due to dehydration? Does sitting in the med tent for an hour count as hospitalization? I'd be surprised if their contract with the LLC actually allows for this type of press release. If it does, expect them to change next year. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Muffin
Joined: 31 Aug 2009
Posts: 2
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:53 am Post subject: Another press release example from Voxbone |
|
|
Voxbone Provides iNum Numbers for Calling and Texting at Burning Man Event
http://bit.ly/195qC4
"BRUSSELS, Aug. 31 /PRNewswire/ -- As more than 50,000 people converge in the middle of the Black Rock Desert in northern Nevada this week at Burning Man, Voxbone will showcase how iNum enables wireless calling and texting to such isolated areas."
"We are showcasing how iNum can be used to connect remote or unconnected areas of the globe with the rest of the connected world, using cell phone infrastructures such as OpenBTS," said Voxbone CEO Rod Ullens. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
goathead
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 2635
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
So do they stay operating now or shut down?
_________________
Cilwenu, gwneud eu rhyfeddu. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FrankA
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Posts: 37
Location: AL
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have a feeling that those phones are the ones that are mentioned in this thread..
http://eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic.php?t=30625
When I originally read that thread I thought the conditions would provide a good test market for new technology. Note the coincidental 10k number. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fciron
Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 606
Location: Louisville, KY
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ah, this is where things get weird. We don't criticize artists or DJs for putting BM on their resumes. Vinay Gupta uses BM as a testing ground for the hexayurt which is funded research. (He has gotten funding from the Dept. of Defense, which is an awesome way to finance your trip home.) Are they doing anything fundamentally different from the drink co. or the phone company?
How does an art collective, like the Flaming Lotus Girls, distinguish itself from a small business?
Could the BMorg insist on non-profit status for participating projects , while remaining a for-profit corporation?
The sheer size and reputation of the event are going to cause stuff like this to happen more frequently. The recent kerfuffle with the EFF getting upset about the photo policy is an example from a different direction. Attempting to clamp down on people or businesses using their BM experience is just the sort of thing they're upset about.
I have heard a lot about the event going through a sea change around 1995. I suspect that we are entering another period of transition: if the event changed in '95 to deal with it's emergence from the underground, then it is going to have to change now to deal with its entry into the mainstream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LeChatNoir
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 4999
Location: Louisville, Ky
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well said.
_________________
The New and Improved Black Cat... now with 25% more blather |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fciron
Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 606
Location: Louisville, KY
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Oh, LeChat.
When I saw that you had responded I hoped that I would be able to read an eloquent and thoughtful exposition on the difference between crass commercialism and reasonable self-promotion.
The more I think about it the more I get stuck. Does a non-profit become excessively commercial if one person gets a full time job? How is being paid to set up your BM art at Coachella any different from being paid to set up your cellular network at Coachella? Can you list BM on your resume as long as you don't send out a press release about it? Can you still send out a press release if it's for a fundraiser to build the art?
Can we find an even more hostile desert to hold the event in? Maybe a jungle? Would it even matter?
Do I have to worry about being commercially exploited every time I join in some participatory art or accept a drink?
Do we trust the LLC to exercise its control over the BM name and squelch uses that they don't like. What if they want to squelch me?
I think that we are going to have to accept larger and larger organizations, for-profit and non-profit, putting BM on there resumes. The thing we have to figure out is how to preserve the experience at the event. It will require a lot more than a lack of corporate logos on the playa if we are hearing about their success at BM for the other 51 weeks of the year.
_________________
Strickland Propane is proud to be supplying liquified natural gas explosive power to the art installations of the mega festival Burning Man!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
karine
Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 1279
Location: Contraptioneering
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I say - keep posting links and everything you see "advertised" RIGHT HERE, that'd be a good way to start to help.
(and of course, a little action/ attention / follow through perhaps in about a week or so)... when the desert is a little less crowded... ;) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fciron
Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 606
Location: Louisville, KY
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well, yeah. This week isn't the best. I got the link from Everyman and he's posted it out to all the regional contacts, so someone in the BMorg ought to see it next week sometime.
_________________
Strickland Propane is proud to be supplying liquified natural gas explosive power to the art installations of the mega festival Burning Man!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LeChatNoir
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 4999
Location: Louisville, Ky
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Fciron, I think that post may have been the shortest one I’ve ever had here. Some sort of milestone?
Heh
So let us explore this a bit.
The only way I’ve been able to make sense of such things in my own mind is to boil it all down to the intention behind the action. This leaves little room for generalizations, though I guess. Each action must be examined down to its root (or at least a far as possible for the time you have to invest) to determine for yourself what the intention behind it was, is or might have been. An often exhausting undertaking.
For instance:
| Quote: | | Does a non-profit become excessively commercial if one person gets a full time job? |
A person who starts a non-profit to give themselves an easy job while people underneath carry the weight is different from a person who starts a non-profit to give themselves a job in order to no longer have to scrape by and sweat their bills while championing a passionate cause in the evenings and weekends. This might only be determined by actually getting to know the person or at the very least their public actions and interactions.
| Quote: | | How is being paid to set up your BM art at Coachella any different from being paid to set up your cellular network at Coachella? |
I don’t’ know about Coachella since, as much as I’d like to go, I’ve never been. However it seems to make no pretensions about it being a commercial thing (please correct me if I am wrong here) and so I’d say there is no difference between being paid to set up art or a cellphone service at Coachella.
But speaking of the same idea applied to Burning Man, I’ve seen a lot of terrific art that has moved me there. Much of it was funded and I think I have no problem with that in most cases. If a person is, through a grant from the Org, able to step back and take a breath, then be freed from some of the financial pressures for a time in order to create a piece of art that moves countless others, then are we all not enriched for it? After all, we all have to eat and the most of us cannot get a consistent meal ticket on our looks. Or at least I can’t.
But cellphone service. If you are given a grant do such a thing and then promote the hardware and software you are using it would be pretty easy for me to think your intentions were not on the level. But on the flipside, I know that Karine appreciated the sat-phone powered phone both during the event in 2006 as Katrina was doing her thing. The guy who borught it set it aside specifically asking that anyone with family in New Orleans be allowed to use it before anyone else and he dropped the requested two minute voluntarily time limit for them as well.
However
Paid is a key term here I think that may make this question a bit loaded. “Paid” carries with it a connotation of some sort of two way transaction. For instance, I could pay you to work for me… say residing my house. You work a number of hours and then account for that to me. I would then hand to you a check, cash, piece of gold… whatever. But if I wanted instead to help see you produce a piece of art for the playa, then I would give to you a grant. You would not have to account your hours to me, but instead would be free to choose how many hours you spent and when on the project.
But what if you don’t give two figs about Burning Man but have a skill that I simply cannot produce my own playa project without? Union ironworkers come to mind here. Perhaps then, for the moment, I shift into a perspective that allows me to view you and your labor as a form of material requirement for the project. I wish to gift this project to The Burn and you wish to make your bills. We each are able to do what we need to do in order to reach our goals.
Again the intention behind the action.
| Quote: | | Can you list BM on your resume as long as you don't send out a press release about it? |
We’ve listed the Contraption on CV’s, but it was not made solely because of Burning Man and was completely self-funded. Burning Man was just the wonderful reason to justify it's creation. I think we may have mentioned that it was brought to Burning Man but we have never sent out a press release about it. I’ve seen Burning Man listed on other CV’s as well, and much more prominently. I have no problem with it personally if tastefully done, since such things can be so overlapping in one‘s life. The building of the old rust bucket was much like the event itself to me, that being more about the journey to get there than simply the event itself. And yet without the event there would be no reason for the journey. The building of The Contraption was as much or more about the process of finding the pieces, thinking, plotting and the interactions of the people, both online and face to face, and I hope that each person who has so much as offered suggestions even once on the threads can feel some sense of ownership. How much more those who helped to bring it to life with their own hand, sweat, and muscle?
| Quote: | | Do I have to worry about being commercially exploited every time I join in some participatory art or accept a drink? |
It is a possibility I suppose. Sort of taint’s the whole thing doesn’t it? For now I’ll choose to not worry about that just yet. It does remind me of when I began to take note, around 2006, of how many cameras there are on the playa. I remember people running up to us in 2007 looking, not at the people or the machine, but the image of the people and the machine on their cameraphone screen. Cameras certainly worry me more than commercial interests. At least they worry me more directly for the moment. I can promise you that photographs from Burning Man, even benign ones, are being taken out of context and used in courtrooms as a means to keep people’s children away from them. But this is another topic all together.
| Quote: | | Do we trust the LLC to exercise its control over the BM name and squelch uses that they don't like |
For now I very much do. It is, after all, their party. But I do believe in questioning everything, even yourself, and I have my eye on them in that aspect. If they ever don’t meet up with my standards on such matters then I will do the only thing I can do to them. Quite buying their tickets.
| Quote: | | What if they want to squelch me? |
Then I guess I'll take that as a hint that I am no longer invited and will make my own party.
| Quote: | | I think that we are going to have to accept larger and larger organizations, for-profit and non-profit, putting BM on there resumes. The thing we have to figure out is how to preserve the experience at the event. It will require a lot more than a lack of corporate logos on the playa if we are hearing about their success at BM for the other 51 weeks of the year. |
Makes me think of Uchronia, aka the Belgian Waffle. 2006 again was it? I read an article in ID (International Design) Magazine post-event about the guy who spearheaded it in which he bragged about building the piece for his client and getting himself and his core crew paid to build it. His client was Lexus and a shot of it burning during the event briefly appeared on a Lexus commercial. This was short lived. I guess those who keep such things in check reacted quickly and squelched it or something. Either way, the add campaign from then on featured only photos and video of similar, albeit smaller, pieces in gallery settings only.
I’ve begun to notice that more and more, subgroups are coalescing on ad off the playa and that people are beginning to form a multi-tiered sort of thing where the public playa is shown one thing and there is another more private side which is opened only to choice others. I’m speaking of more than public street frontage theme camps with private camping areas for camp members behind. I guess it goes against the radical inclusion thing, but it seems to me an inevitable backlash to the things like corporate hawking and ubiquitous camera coverage.
Perhaps the underground is in need of a new underground.
_________________
The New and Improved Black Cat... now with 25% more blather
Last edited by LeChatNoir on Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:51 pm; edited 3 times in total. (4 percent) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bob
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 3558
Location: San Francisco
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Compared to the *any* art piece, I'd wager a concession at the Cafe hawking bogus health remedies has virtually zero physical or fiscal impact on ticketholders or other users of the public lands you people inhabit for a week.
_________________
Mercy, mercy, mercy.
New web site: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spectabillis
Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 3392
Location: Oracle/0
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| That Darned Cat wrote: | | .. and that people are beginning to form a multi-tiered sort of thing where the public playa is shown one thing and there is another more private side which is opened only to choice others. |
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fciron
Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 606
Location: Louisville, KY
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
LeChat,
Nicely said.
I think you may have misunderstood the Coachella question. I see lots of pictures of art at Coachella that originally appeared on the playa. So the question is "How is getting paid to set up my art that premiered at BM different from getting paid to set up my cell phone network that premiered at BM?"
I think that your focus on cameras is pretty accurate. Neither the cell phone project nor the drink press release would have happened if the eyes of the world were not already on us.
_________________
Strickland Propane is proud to be supplying liquified natural gas explosive power to the art installations of the mega festival Burning Man!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
karine
Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 1279
Location: Contraptioneering
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Art is art when YOU SAY it is art.
Fine Art is art when other artists (& scholars eventually) agree it is art.
Burning Man was a temporary autonomous zone which now has grown - Today, exposing your potenital there can now be received on an international scale. Of course that attracts a lot of attention, and *yes* there are dangers of commodification... but the fact that it IS a week long life experience that accepts EVERYONE IS AN ARTIST I think needs to be preserved, protected & available forward.
Coachella is a different type of "gallery" or setting perhaps.
Doesn't seem to have as lofty of goals... definitely not on the same bus. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fciron
Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 606
Location: Louisville, KY
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks, Karine. You've moved the discussion into one of solutions rather than problems.
For the time being we don't actually have to worry about the fuzzy line between good and bad uses of Burning Man experience. That will be made more clear if we can define the things that make Burning Man important and some ways to we keep them intact?
When I first heard about Burning Man the Drive-By Shooting Range held an almost iconic status, but now there is no driving for most participants and certainly no guns. Yet the Man burns on.
The real question is why the three of us, less than an hour apart, are having a conversation hosted by a server a couple of thousand miles away?  (I assume this is going through SF somehow.)
_________________
Strickland Propane is proud to be supplying liquified natural gas explosive power to the art installations of the mega festival Burning Man!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
karine
Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 1279
Location: Contraptioneering
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I think it's pretty close to 2,200 miles to the playa from here... but OUR signal has to bounce off a satellite, so that's even b e t t e r ! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fciron
Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 606
Location: Louisville, KY
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hell, when you put it that way it's almost better than being on the playa.
....not. 
_________________
Strickland Propane is proud to be supplying liquified natural gas explosive power to the art installations of the mega festival Burning Man!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
karine
Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 1279
Location: Contraptioneering
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| oh, don't cry... Burning Man will be back next year! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spectabillis
Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 3392
Location: Oracle/0
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| fciron wrote: | | That will be made more clear if we can define the things that make Burning Man important and some ways to we keep them intact? |
thats like trying to indoctrinate 'culture,' which can be done, but not by you because its privately corporate owned despite everyones expectation its a community. so its probably better to view it religiously - where things are doctrinated through teachings and texts, with a loosely developed hierarchy and proceedure on giving legiitamacy to apply interpretations and teachings.
but back to the violation of principle - personally i see little difference between this commercial drink thats given the opportunity for product endorcement, and the previous green themed pavillion showcases. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fciron
Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 606
Location: Louisville, KY
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
SB, I like the religious analogy, because it is, as you said, a private corporation that runs the whole shebang. However, just like religion, I need to figure out how it fits into my life and, if it's not meeting my needs or desires, what other religions are available.  I also hope that the decision makers will take the opinions of the lay-people into consideration.
2008 was my first burn, so I missed the green pavilions. As I said earlier, if the drink folks or phone folks are violating the principles then there is a problem with artists who have been doing much the same thing for years. It is mostly a matter of scale.
_________________
Strickland Propane is proud to be supplying liquified natural gas explosive power to the art installations of the mega festival Burning Man!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spectabillis
Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 3392
Location: Oracle/0
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
first was 2008!?
then i dont understand the conflict. you're exactly what the borg has come to appreciate to replace jbs sick veterans like me - fresh blood not having to indoctrinate with all that pretentious principal stuff, and much lower expectations.
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fciron
Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 606
Location: Louisville, KY
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, I'll get to right to work on that lower expectations thing. :-p
_________________
Strickland Propane is proud to be supplying liquified natural gas explosive power to the art installations of the mega festival Burning Man!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LeChatNoir
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 4999
Location: Louisville, Ky
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Heh Heh
_________________
The New and Improved Black Cat... now with 25% more blather |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spectabillis
Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 3392
Location: Oracle/0
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
its easy.
just sit back and enjoy the party, afterall, you should expect to be well entertained for dropping a few bills per ticket. hell man, go all out and rent an rv then pay a village for all your needs and meals. make sure the rv has directv and an xbox though... and bring a camera, you definately need that for critical tits. condoms, booze, and extra cash for drugs because thats the best way to get laid.
i would tell you to bring out your atv and string some el-wire to it, but the dmv cant be bribed anymore. have to do something stupid, like volunteer for dpw or something. but the good thing about volunteering for certain groups is privelage since you helped build and run the damn place.
i mean really, fuck the principals and all that hippy community crap. who the fuck do those people think they are trying to push thier lame morality and beliefs on you, you're just there to have a good time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LeChatNoir
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 4999
Location: Louisville, Ky
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| spectabillis wrote: | | but back to the violation of principle - personally i see little difference between this commercial drink thats given the opportunity for product endorcement, and the previous green themed pavillion showcases. |
The difference I see between the two are that the name of the drink is mentioned, by the company certainly, but probably at Center Camp Cafe as well, else it might be difficult to let people know that it is available. But I do not recall any manufacturer's name from any piece of equipment or technology around the "Green Pavilion" thingy. I actually learned a bit from the Pavilion but I've been bringing my own drink stuff for years.
Center Camp turns me off anymore, really. I guess it's because of the Cafe. I bought coffee a few times my first year, and maybe once my second. Otherwise I've just passed through for the most part. When several different people told me that the tips were kept by the volunteers, it really went in the face of why I liked the whole event. Now I just stay away for the most part.
_________________
The New and Improved Black Cat... now with 25% more blather
Last edited by LeChatNoir on Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:24 am; edited 1 time in total. (3 percent) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spectabillis
Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 3392
Location: Oracle/0
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| i may be wrong on this because i tried my best to avoid it, but showcasers were allowed the same press coverage and association. (and in agreement with the cafe, never purchased anything, and only been in it once.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Muffin
Joined: 31 Aug 2009
Posts: 2
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
Giant Aerial Marijuana Bud Banner to be flown over Man
http://bit.ly/2KmFB
SEATTLE, Sept. 4 /PRNewswire/ -- On the day that the Man burns at the
legendary Nevada Burning Man event this year in the Black Rock Desert,
partiers will see a giant marijuana bud banner flying overhead.
The huge banner, which has already flown over Seattle Hempfest and San
Francisco, features a glistening marijuana flower, along with lettering that
asks the question "Want Big, Sugary Buds?"
The controversial banner is the brainchild of Michael "Big Mike" Straumietis,
co-founder of international hydroponics nutrients manufacturer Advanced
Nutrients. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LeChatNoir
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 4999
Location: Louisville, Ky
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| spectabillis wrote: | | i may be wrong on this because i tried my best to avoid it, but showcasers were allowed the same press coverage and association. (and in agreement with the cafe, never purchased anything, and only been in it once.) |
You know, you're right… I remember now that the manufacturers did mention this before and after the event in various media outlets.
And with aerial advertising now apparently happening. Jeez…
It’s not that there is such a big base to advertise to out there. +/-50,000 people going out to the desert isn’t big market share. But +/-50,000 people going out to the desert does peek the interest of the eyes of the world which is a big market share. Product pushing by association, I guess.
_________________
The New and Improved Black Cat... now with 25% more blather |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spectabillis
Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 3392
Location: Oracle/0
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
for a short period, early 2000's i think, there was the tendency for some people to self-regulate the commerce thing by contacting the company involved how they felt about it and what bman was about. i guess the belief was the business would realize it was actually a disadvantage to directly associate thier business to bman, rather than an opportunity.
dont think the word really got out to avoid it, and maybe the saying that "even negative controversy is free advertising" is right.
but .. sky banners... great.
Last edited by spectabillis on Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:01 pm; edited 1 time in total. (0 percent) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
Watched Topics
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
