challenging "the Temple"

[canexplain]

"By that analysis it sounds like I could spend a week in the chicken coop slapping myself awake for 22 hour observation shifts and get the same enjoyment: lots of random fluffing, drama and activity. Plenty of dust and feathers and temporary nests stirred by rogue winds. And a few roosters crowing to set themselves apart with strange cluckings and mating rituals. Constant peckings at the ground while saying "MOOP-MOOP!". The similarities are profound."

Involving a feather with sex is kinky. Involving a whole chicken is lewd.

Yea or like that whole urban legend ? about the shark and Led Zep. Now that was weird......

[Dr. Pyro]

" enjoyment: lots of random fluffing

So, began the career in the San Fernando Valley I see.

[Eric]

Well. There it is. The benediction of Burning Man.

Nope. What you have with Tokens post is proof that nothing, absolutely nothing, means the same thing to everybody. Not even on the playa. Personally I find the chakra & crystal & spiritual camps as annoying as hell, so I don't go to them. One of my best friends loves them, he goes a couple of times during the week. We go drinking and carousing together at night - his Burn & mine are different, but we intersect. There will be people out there who you don't, won't, or can't intersect with at all, and there could be someone that you meld with completely. I've had both, and all shades in-between.

You seem to have a very set view on what this event you've never been to is, or will bring you. I would start working on letting that go now, and just be prepared to take it for what ever it turns out to be. Expectations will kill your event - I've had them wreck a day or two of mine out there, I'm sure most people here have had them, and have had them blow up badly.

Think zen: it is what it is, unless it isn't.

[ygmir]

Well. There it is. The benediction of Burning Man.

Nope. What you have with Tokens post is proof that nothing, absolutely nothing, means the same thing to everybody. Not even on the playa. Personally I find the chakra & crystal & spiritual camps as annoying as hell, so I don't go to them. One of my best friends loves them, he goes a couple of times during the week. We go drinking and carousing together at night - his Burn & mine are different, but we intersect. There will be people out there who you don't, won't, or can't intersect with at all, and there could be someone that you meld with completely. I've had both, and all shades in-between.

You seem to have a very set view on what this event you've never been to is, or will bring you. I would start working on letting that go now, and just be prepared to take it for what ever it turns out to be. Expectations will kill your event - I've had them wreck a day or two of mine out there, I'm sure most people here have had them, and have had them blow up badly.

Think zen: it is what it is, unless it isn't.

spot. on. again.

thanks Eric.

[Rice]

You seem to have a very set view on what this event you've never been to is, or will bring you. I would start working on letting that go now, and just be prepared to take it for what ever it turns out to be. Expectations will kill your event - I've had them wreck a day or two of mine out there, I'm sure most people here have had them, and have had them blow up badly.

Think zen: it is what it is, unless it isn't.

Exactly Eric!!

The more you expect Burning Man to give you, the less likely you will get from it.

Expect nothing!! After all, this is just a camping excursion in the desert with odd neighbors and weird architecture....

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and views. But simply ignoring those that have attended and expecting your preconceived beliefs to be adapted by everyone else is (um, I'll politely say) incorrect.

[Token]

The man with the long beard is wise.

[jkisha]

The temple has become an institution. Another predictable piece of the BM business model.

It's pure garbage. A vestibule of some sort of spiritual morality so many cling to as a means to ground themselves into reality.

Rules of conduct, crews of "temple guardians" telling the initiates what is allowed and what is not. Instructing the masses of the sacredness and spiritual meaning of a bunch of plywood and cardboard slapped together by the great unwashed horde. What a crock of shit.

The temple is just a bunch of lumber built inside a cult withing a cult that will burn a glorious death for our entertainment as we pack our crap before the delights of the Exodus.

Everything else is just exhaustion.

Well said.

[Sunbeam56]

The man with the long beard is wise.

Who Zat?

Cautionary words are good - but face it, Newbies gonna have too much energy, too many dreams, and too much hope to extinguish expectations. You may as well send the Virgins to a Nunnery - ain't gonna stop nuthin'... just make it more painful.

I have some hopes, and I am definately not gonna share them with youse naysayers... but I'm also not going to let you take them away.
The Temple is a hope, made physical.
Guys who don't dream ... die slowly.

[Eric]

Cautionary words are good - but face it, Newbies gonna have too much energy, too many dreams, and too much hope to extinguish expectations. You may as well send the Virgins to a Nunnery - ain't gonna stop nuthin'... just make it more painful.

I have some hopes, and I am definately not gonna share them with youse naysayers... but I'm also not going to let you take them away.
The Temple is a hope, made physical.
Guys who don't dream ... die slowly.

Again, you completely misinterpret what we're saying. I was a newbie once, everyone here was. We all went with varying degrees of expectation, which is why we know it's best to plan for the camping part as thoroughly as possible, and try to keep the expectations in check. No one is trying to "take away" your hopes, we're trying to get you away from pinning the success of your Burn on them.

Think about it - these people you're calling naysayers because they don't speak the words you want to hear love the event so much they hang out on a forum about it all year, some of us for years on end. Your version of a naysayer is very different than mine...

I'm from SF, Home of the Burn, so when I went for the first time there was an entire community around me, but they weren't (all) glassy-eyed cultists. They instilled not only how great the Burn is, but what to watch out for, and how to survive. Basically, they taught me to keep my expectations in as much check as possible. Doesn't mean I wasn't as wide-eyed as a kid discovering Disneyland when I got there for the first time - and being a realist now doesn't mean I still don't get that wide-eyed every year I go.

You're placing your hope into an object that you don't know what it will look like, what it will be like, how hot, crowded, miserable it might be when you first walk up (or how amazing it might be, with someone playing an earth-harp and the sound of gamelans in the distance). What I'm saying is that if the Temple doesn't live up to all the hope & hype you're putting on it, you may end up wrecking your entire Burn. You've set everything on seeing the Temple - what if it's not what you wanted, needed or expected? What if it doesn't live up to all the dreams you're piling on it and expecting it to live up to? What if your first Temple is like my 1st or 2nd, both of which I found highly disappointing? Are you ready for that, or have you blinded yourself to the very real possibility that it may not be what you want? That's not nay-saying, that's cold hard facts. If you go in prepared that you may be disappointed, it only has to be nice-enough for it to be good!

That's what everyone is saying to you both - open yourselves to the adventure, don't put your hopes just one part of it being perfect, because if you do, you've pretty much made it impossible for it to be as perfect as you hoped for.

Plan your physical camping, learn everything you can to be prepared for your survival, go with an open mind that you may just be disappointed in the Temple this year - and I can almost guarantee you that if you have an open mind you'll find something else amazing that will take it's place.

[Ugly Dougly]

The temple has become an institution. Another predictable piece of the BM business model.

It's pure garbage. A vestibule of some sort of spiritual morality so many cling to as a means to ground themselves into reality.

Rules of conduct, crews of "temple guardians" telling the initiates what is allowed and what is not. Instructing the masses of the sacredness and spiritual meaning of a bunch of plywood and cardboard slapped together by the great unwashed horde. What a crock of shit.

The temple is just a bunch of lumber built inside a cult withing a cult that will burn a glorious death for our entertainment as we pack our crap before the delights of the Exodus.

Everything else is just exhaustion.

Yes, as much as it pains me to admit it you speaks the wisdom O bearded weird.

We leave "institutions" behind us in Defaultia. If it doesn't work, then burn it. Even if it does work, then a bit of burning doesn't hurt either.

[trilobyte]

There was a temple when I started participating. I consider myself fortunate that it was either not the kind of institution newbies consider it today (or maybe it was and I was just blissfully unaware as I scrambled to get every other part of my burn together). I arrived on the playa knowing that some kind of structure existed, but not a whole lot else. No matter how many times you've been to the event (or wherever you go in life), the more expectations you can get rid of, the better IMO.

[Ugly Dougly]

Surely you know, Trilobyte, there used to be an "opera" every year, and it was cool as long as it was new and fresh. Nobody misses it now.

IMHO, as soon as Burning Man (or anything else) becomes codified, predictable and "institutionalized", that's when creativity and spontaneity fly out the window. And you start wondering why you are there in the first place.

[Simon of the Playa]

i have a simple solution.


lets burn a mosque instead.

[ygmir]

Ito, say no please.

[maryanimal]

IMHO:

If you don't like the idea of the temple, then ignore it. Don't go to it. If it upsets anyone to think of it being there, then you're wasting your time and energy. There are better things to do while you're there. It does mean something to a lot of burners. It's not mandatory to watch it burn.

simon: good idea! why leave anyone out! hehehe

Expectations: Leave them at home. Eric said it all. Create your OWN burn. Leave the list to see "everything" at the gate. go where you want, when you want, whether it's with someone or by yourself.
Be a volunteer!

Just have a great burn!!

[Sunbeam56]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 6840.story

[aserendipity]

even though they were so elite that I had to move away,
I do miss the "opera"
and I do miss all the simple moments of joy while hearing someone playing Cello at dawn
just because he could

[Eric]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-india-religion-festival-20130208,0,566840.story

Which has exactly what to do with Burning Man? BRC has no river, it's not designed as a spiritual event - regardless of the culty-crap that gets piled on it - and there's no-where to wash away your sins (if you believe in them), there's certainly not 100 million people attending, it's not a centuries old undertaking... You keep lacquering on more layers of expectation instead of trying to free your mind of them. Don't ever try to understand Buddhism.

I honestly hope your vision of what you want the event to be doesn't stop you from enjoying what it really is. It's an amazing thing on it's own, it doesn't need false expectations placed on it.


I'm done. You cannot teach those who will not be taught.

[theCryptofishist]

Ever notice how often newbies want to experience some sort of fresh and fulfilling vision of spirituality, and then try and put the playa's traditions into the same old vestments that the moribund pope (and all his predecessors) is wearing?

[Eric]

Ever notice how often newbies want to experience some sort of fresh and fulfilling vision of spirituality, and then try and put the playa's traditions into the same old vestments that the moribund pope (and all his predecessors) is existing religions already wearing?

fixed it.

[BBadger]

My burns are always ruined by my expectations of how good the 40,000th Burning Man is going to be:

[Simon of the Playa]

this thread pretty much explains why i havent seen the temple burn in 3 years.

i go on saturday, let the goyim have their fun on sunday burning it down, as is their custom.

[aserendipity]

THANK YOU
Eric, Fishy, Simon
Actually it is you (and some others) who I salute

[canexplain]

Simon, if you say you haven't been in 3 years, that infers you did go before. To us that have not been there, I think it is just one of those things I want to see (and the Man). Do I have to see it burn? Guess it depends on how the week goes. Knowing myself, I saw the Golden Gate bridge for years but until I walked across it, I didn't feel the bridge. Are the structures the same? Might I just glance at them for years before I touch them? Sorry for the ramble, that damn coffee....

[inthecolumbiagorge]

Last year was my first burn and I went to the temple at least 5 times. It was so beautiful and very moving for me and my whole family. We lost my dad this year we said a very special goodbye to him there that was incredibly emotional for us all, strangely much more so than his actual memorial here. I do understand that it may not draw every burner to it but with our travels on our MV there were more people congregated there usually than any where else on the open playa so obviously it has much value to many burners. I know I will always remember my first time at temple as an integral part of my first burn regardless of how often I make it to the playa in the future. I do not consider myself a very spiritual person and definitely not religious but the temple was just freaking amazing and I appreciate all the planning, hard work and funding that created it.

[Eric]

Please understand, most of us aren't saying "don't go to the Temple at all", we're saying "don't make the Temple such a strong focus of your first visit that you loose sight of everything else" - and those in response to specific posts. Hell, I could give a flying fuck if you spend an entire day at the Temple bowing & keening, it's your Burn, not mine. Just don't expect everyone else to get as into it as you, and at least come prepared that the real physical structure & experience of being there may not live up to all the dreams you're piling on it, sight unseen.

You have to remember this thread was started to challenge the idea of the Temple in it's current form, it wasn't started to be cheer-leading camp. If you're going for the first time & you want to believe that the "brochure" version of Burning Man you get on the web is the truth & the people who've actually been are naysayers for not parroting the brochure - have at it, but there are certain threads you might not want to read. However, for long timers the Temple has become a symbol of the systematic creep of Institutional Memory (ie: making something "default" in a place where things should be transient), and a lot of this thread is about discontent with that.

In the early years the only certain thing was the Cocktail Party (do your own research), then other things burbled up & disappeared (the Opera, etc). The only "permanent" thing for the whole city has been center camp, and that's only been around since there's actually been a city - '97 or '98, I believe. The Temple has now attained status second only to the Man, but is that actually a good thing? It's now expected to be there, and be amazing, to the point where people are planning there trip because of it.

That's not just institutional creep, that's putting a whole lot of expectations on something that has sucked as often as it's been amazing; I've heard complaints - or made them - about '03, '05, '06, '09, & '10. Those are all ones that varied from the "it looks like a traditional religious structure" program, which basically tells you that people are just dragging the outside world in instead of letting it go. I've been guilty of it as well, except I didn't like them because they looked like shitty art, not because they didn't fulfill some religious dream I had for them (and I personally really like 2010's, which was a love-or-hate structure for a lot of people)

[Token]

The temple was so much better when a really angry egotistical miserable old man made it from dinosaur mobile negatives.

He had a good bead on things.

[Eric]

The temple was so much better when a really angry egotistical miserable old man made it from dinosaur mobile negatives.

He had a good bead on things.

Ha! And so true.

[Simon of the Playa]

how about we BLOW the temple up...





just sayin', add a little spice...i mean diesel bombs.

[Sunbeam56]

Why would 100,000 people travel through adversity to take a bath in a dirty river?
They could have a clean, comfortable bath at home.
Its because the journey has meaning to them.