Monkey Hut question

[BBadger]

Cap your rebar with hose!

hose_small.jpg

[MacGlenver]

Cap your rebar with hose!

Yep we ran out of covers after our friend brought 20 more pieces of rebar to reinforce our hut. Someone showed up and cut us 20 pieces of hose which we will keep for next year. Worked great. Thanks whoever you are!

[Noboundaries]

We needed a taller Monkey Hut than the original design. We added height by making a 3 cross rib design instead of just one at the top, using 6' schedule 40 PVC base anchors and 5' peak sections above the first joint. We tested our design on the playa on July 6th and it failed in 50+ MPH winds. The structure collapsed when the wind pulled the four of the 12" tarp anchor stakes out of the ground like hot nails out of butter. As the tarp sailed it pulled the leeward rib up and off the 1/2" x 30" rebar anchor, collapsing the MH and kinking several of the the schedule 40 PVC base pieces like a garden hose. Until then it did great in 30-40 MPH winds. Eight of the twelve 1/2" rebar anchors were bent up to 30 degrees. Time for minor a redesign and to anchor the frame to the playa by more than just the tarp and the outward pressure of the sch 40 PVC.

Changed to 5/8" rebar anchors, cut to 30" and drilled 15" into the playa with a 1" auger and a Makita. A few wraps with a sledge solidified the rebar.

Using a 300 lbs minimum breaking strength rope running along the ribs we anchored the frame to the playa with 1/2" by 12" military tent stakes, tied with taut line hitch knots.

Each tarp hole was anchored to the playa with 3/8" x 12" galvanized nails and a 1/2" washer pounded flush to the ground instead of one anchor to two tarp holes like we'd used in July. We used bungees pulled tight to anchor the tarp, having reinforced the grommets with 200 degree F Scotch Extreme duct tape. Used a 48" crowbar to remove all stakes. Rebar pulled easily out of the playa with one kick and a firm grasp.

We left a 1 foot gap at the bottom of the tarp all the way around to maximize cooling and minimizing sail, though sacrificing dust access. The tarp was quite snug across the frame, almost like a drum. Kelty tent interior stayed clean though due to full coverage rainfly.

MH was 25' x 13' x 7.5', six ribs, 15 cross members, 18 joints (6 T and 12 X), 14 mil white tarp. Bright white tarp stayed cool to the touch even during the hottest part of the day. Also, the structure was blocked from leeward wind on three sides by vehicles.

Hut was perfectly square due to the process we used for setting the rebar anchors (setting end anchors on one end correct distance apart, then using ropes and a square to find anchor lines down each side of MH. Used cross supports and vertical level to find each additional anchor point).

Although the ground level wind never reached the strength at our camp we saw in July, the MH did great.

[MacGlenver]

We added height by making a 3 cross rib design instead of just one at the top, using 6' schedule 40 PVC base anchors and 5' peak sections above the first joint.

Not sure I understand this bit.

[Noboundaries]

The original MH design I saw had two 10' schedule 40 PVC joined at the top of the MH by a support. We had a 6' section, a support, a 5' section, the top support, and the same down the other side.

[MacGlenver]

The original MH design I saw had two 10' schedule 40 PVC joined at the top of the MH by a support. We had a 6' section, a support, a 5' section, the top support, and the same down the other side.

Ah, I get it. Nice. Lotsa cutting & fastening, but looks solid. My goal is to find a design that requires essentially no cutting. This year we did Sch. 40 electrical conduit with built-in joints. Cross ropes between the ribs, guy lines down from each end, and either a single ridge pole or straps in place of the ridge worked well.

[motskyroonmatick]

The original MH design I saw had two 10' schedule 40 PVC joined at the top of the MH by a support. We had a 6' section, a support, a 5' section, the top support, and the same down the other side.

That is one good looking M.H.

[Oubliet]

I've been using monkeys huts for a few burn years. Every time, I try to add modifications that will improve the shelter by making it sturdier.

I dispensed with using standard PVC joint pieces altogether. I'll use a 3-4 foot length of PVC tubing that'll contain the rib lengths. Also, to connect the ribs to the spine, I use an old bike inner tube wrapped crosswise and held on, snugly, with a carabiner. This hold it firmly enough, but can flex when those strong wind puffs occur.

I also have extended the spine pole at both ends to come down to the ground and slip over 3 ft rebar lengths angled and pounded down well into the playa. This gives a bit more support and strength to the hut's spine.


The newest mod that I've made is to add a little extra faming to the back side of the hut using curved and tensioned PVC poles to make a stiff cocoon curved end cap over which shade cloth pieces may be used to cover the end.

In the front side of the hut, I have some shade cloth hanging down.

The purpose of these is to have some mesh to provide shade and to encourage the dust bourne in the wind gusts to decelerate and drop about a foot or two inside the monkey hut instead of blowing all the way through the tunnel. This mostly worked. The next thing though, is to improve the "fit" of the shade cloth pieces over the framework.

[MacGlenver]

I've been using monkeys huts for a few burn years. Every time, I try to add modifications that will improve the shelter by making it sturdier.

I dispensed with using standard PVC joint pieces altogether. I'll use a 3-4 foot length of PVC tubing that'll contain the rib lengths. Also, to connect the ribs to the spine, I use an old bike inner tube wrapped crosswise and held on, snugly, with a carabiner. This hold it firmly enough, but can flex when those strong wind puffs occur.

I also have extended the spine pole at both ends to come down to the ground and slip over 3 ft rebar lengths angled and pounded down well into the playa. This gives a bit more support and strength to the hut's spine.

Interesting method of extending the spine pole down to the ground... Will have to think about that one. Would think it'd be about the same performance as a guy line from the last rib to the ground on either end though, no?

A carabiner over the bike tube? That must be one big ass carabiner. Do you mean a clamp?

[Oubliet]

Nope, I use a carabiner.

I use the inexpensive ones that you can get from Home Depot for about a buck work nicely. These are aluminum and not nearly as strong as the ~real~ ones used to hold rock climbers, but they don't need to be that strong. It doesn't take a huge 'binder to clip over the deflated and stretched bike inner tubes bound around the joint a few times.
(You're not going over the PVC, just the rubber tubes.)

I did this after getting annoyed by standard PVC joints failing on me every time there was a major gust of wind blew through.

I also added 2 extra PVC poles in between the spine pole and the rib pols, and a lateral PVC over them that butted into the ground at the base of the first ribs.

Using the extended spine PVC gives me more headroom as well as gives more of a "cocoon" shape to the ends of the hut.
I kinda like that.

I made shade cloth pieces to cover and bungee ball down over this end area. It gave me a bit more of a protected storage space.

In the back area, I tucked more boxes of personal gear (food, tools, etc.) into that framed area.

[Oubliet]

I don't really like to have a guy strap angling down from the doorway.

I have no idea which would be stronger, the guy strap or the extended spine set-up.

I've used the extended spine set-up for three burns, now, and it has held up well. I skipped 3 years, so the other years that I used this config were 2007 and 2008, both years that had some wind.

[maladroit]

I did this after getting annoyed by standard PVC joints failing on me every time there was a major gust of wind blew through.

I solved that problem above. My setup CAN'T fall apart unless actual PVC breaks somewhere.

[Oubliet]

I've had PVC joints break on me before. We used to build other PVC shade structures during the first few years out there. A friend showed me how to do the extended and glued T joints. We'd bring an extra one or two of these, because one joint (we built a~ lot~ of shade at our camp) would likely fail sometime during the week.

If anything ever failed, it was the PVC joint piece.

So, I decided to modify the design.

Here's what the back of my hut looked like, this year:

http://people.tribe.net/920ca7ad-11c4-4525-a448-6164df69e353/photos/1d6011de-7b35-410b-a4ff-36bc433d77c7

To get the extra poles locked in at the 45 degree angles, Dr Dave came up with the idea to rig a plywood jig with U-bolts to slide the PVC poles into and hold them in place.

Here's what the front looked like. The extended spine arc went out far enough so that it didn't get in our way as we walked in and out of the hut.

http://people.tribe.net/920ca7ad-11c4-4525-a448-6164df69e353/photos/a227cd91-c3c2-4815-b4d4-d1add8815485

[Milayna]

I've been searching all over trying to figure out if I can use my same monkey hut 2 years in a row or does the pvc need to be replaced every year? Anyone know? Thanks!!

[BBadger]

Yes, they should last you for years. Just remember to store it properly. The sun's UV can break down the PVC; so make sure they're out of the sun.. Also remember to protect the tubes from physical damage (i.e. impacts, freezing water in the winter). Don't subject them to extraordinary circumstances either.

Hell, the bending the PVC endured during the previous burn should to make it easier to bend into position next time.

[MacGlenver]

Yes, they should last you for years. Just remember to store it properly. The sun's UV can break down the PVC; so make sure they're out of the sun.. Also remember to protect the tubes from physical damage (i.e. impacts, freezing water in the winter). Don't subject them to extraordinary circumstances either.

Hell, the bending the PVC endured during the previous burn should to make it easier to bend into position next time.

^ What he said. I'll be using my PVC until it snaps on me, which shouldn't be for many years. I do always bring extra, in case this happens. Also, if you have a ton of ribs and your spine design doesnt depend on an exact number of ribs, you can just subtract one rib from your design and use its PVC to replace the broken piece.

[Milayna]

Awesome, that's what I needed to know, thank you!!

[Milayna]

One more question, I asked this in another thread almost a year ago but never got an answer, and you guys seem to be the monkey hut pros.

This year I'm thinking about adding the optional shade flap to the back of my hut, but in some threads people have said that closing an end of the hut makes it get hot inside. Does the shade flap cause this problem? I don't expect it to be fully closed, just draped over my tent and then secured to the ground, but it's definitely more closed than the regular monkey hut. Anyone done this? Does it cause the monkey hut to heat up inside? Thanks!

[theCryptofishist]

I think that you still want the breeze to go through and the hot air able to get out. I don't know how much of the back needs to be open for that to happen. If you don't get an answer, go with something that can be "loosened" so that you have the option of experimenting with it for maximum utility.

[BBadger]

Yeah, you do want to ensure there's airflow.

This will mean that what airflow you lose due to the shadecloth you should make up in some other means to maintain it. That usually means at least allowing one side of the monkeyhut to vent heat out the top, and possibly providing gaps near the base to allow cool air in. You mostly just want to ensure that there's a pathway for air to enter and exit. Shadecloth does help though, especially if an opening is facing the sun because of space concerns.



We actually had a tarp that was too long for the monkeyhut, so it somewhat served as a shade cloth on the back-end anyway, even if it didn't cover the whole end. We also did not have any bottom air-gaps, and yet in the end it didn't feel that hot. It did help that the opening did not face the sun.

Another thing to do is drape shadecloth outside the monkeyhut, or between adjacent monkeyhuts. That works pretty well and you have a lot more area to allow the air through the cloth.

[Milayna]

Thanks BBadger!! That's exactly what I needed to know

[Earthwalker]

Probably a dumb question, but...is the shadecloth there just so you can put a tent at the rear of the MH and have it covered?

Also, what if, instead of putting a tent at the back, you backed up a minivan/van, then, whenever you wanted, you could walk to the back of the MH, open the rear gate, and access the van?

Sorry, one more. I've heard answers to this, but there has been some variance in responses: which direction do you want the MH facing? i.e. rear of the MH faces??? South? And park your vehicle on which side?

Thank you! I'm going to buy the supplies soon and work with it in my backyard until I find a design I like. I'll post pics with my progress.

[Savannah]

Wind can come from any direction of course, but the strongest is from the SW (from the direction of Center Camp/5:00/4:30 up through the 9 o'clock side).

Most folks park their vehicles south of their tents/shade. Box trucks do well with the large door facing anywhere but South or Southwest.

I positioned my monkey hut East/West.

[Earthwalker]

Another dumb question...wouldn't you want the MH to actually FACE the strong winds so that it would blow THROUGH the MH instead of hitting it directly, which would increase the likelihood of it collapsing?

[some seeing eye]

Some people cap the ends of their monkey huts. Huts are pretty tough. Like sailing, you should always be ready to derig and furl wind catching tarps and such until the storm passes. As you note, same problem with hurricanes - wind getting under the roof.

[Bounce530]

The photo below was the first year I used a MH.
I place my van to the rear of the hut with enough space to walk between the van and the hut, but close enough that I can hop right in/out of the van from the hut. I also lash the hut to the vans roof rack.
I've since added a 'front door' to the hut. I use another silver tarp clamped to the front ribs and let it hang down when I want to sleep. It keeps the sun and people out when I want. Then during the day, I'll just roll the tarp door up to one side of the hut and clamp it in place. That way I can face the hut which ever direction I choose. Usually toward the street.
Other then that I've been using the same design for a couples years (with the addition of some more lights and a 2nd disco ball)

[Noboundaries]

Another dumb question...wouldn't you want the MH to actually FACE the strong winds so that it would blow THROUGH the MH instead of hitting it directly, which would increase the likelihood of it collapsing?

We positioned our MH so the wind blew through the hut but still parked our truck and trailer in front of the opening to disrupt the incoming wind. The blow through allowed us to stay cool during the hottest part of the day due to body evaporative cooling. We had no problem sleeping anytime we wanted laying in anti-gravity lounge chairs. We usually took a siesta during the hottest part of the afternoon. 2012 was relatively cool according to most folks. The hottest ambient temp I saw on our camp thermometer outside the MH was 98 degrees. Under the MH the temperature read 88 to 92. When we went to the playa in July the ambient temp thermometer read 114 degrees with 101.5 under the MH, but the wind blowing through the MH made it feel cooler.

Aligning with the wind also minimizes the lift generated by a wind that hits your MH at 90 degrees. A MH generates a LOT of lift when hit by a perpendicular wind. The wind direction on the playa varies dramatically and that's why we anchored our ribs to the ground to minimize "sail" when we caught an oblique wind. The truck and trailer were also a great wind block.

You sacrifice dust access by aligning your hut with the wind, but don't fight the dust, embrace it. Our full coverage rainfly kept our tent dust free inside even though the tent itself is 75% mosquito netting. We just brushed the dust off the tables, chairs, tables, and cooking gear when we needed to use them.

If you do align with a wind blowthrough, be sure to anchor your tent and ground cover. We had additional end tarps ready to use if the wind became excessive but never needed them.

[Earthwalker]

Why do we want to cover the rebar with hoes....so that it fits more snug in the pvc? Which I would assume makes for less rattle and less likely to break with a big gust?

Thanks!

[Savannah]

Another dumb question...wouldn't you want the MH to actually FACE the strong winds so that it would blow THROUGH the MH instead of hitting it directly, which would increase the likelihood of it collapsing?

We had the van protecting the south side of the hut, where the wind would typically hit.

We decided to trust the strength of the hut and guy lines and the blocking power of the van rather than experiencing the wind whooshing directly through it. It worked out for us. Note: this was in 2009, where there was lots and lots of gusting and a couple of really windy hours the morning of Temple Burn, but no huge whiteouts lasting all day.

My current shade is 7 high and flat (steel and shade cloth), so the wind does indeed just go right under it and through it. Doesn't catch the wind at all.

[MyDearFriend]

Another dumb question...wouldn't you want the MH to actually FACE the strong winds so that it would blow THROUGH the MH instead of hitting it directly, which would increase the likelihood of it collapsing?

We had the van protecting the south side of the hut, where the wind would typically hit.

We decided to trust the strength of the hut and guy lines and the blocking power of the van rather than experiencing the wind whooshing directly through it. It worked out for us. Note: this was in 2009, where there was lots and lots of gusting and a couple of really windy hours the morning of Temple Burn, but no huge whiteouts lasting all day.

My current shade is 7 high and flat (steel and shade cloth), so the wind does indeed just go right under it and through it. Doesn't catch the wind at all.

Earthwalker, you can orient your hut either way but an oblique angle to the prevailing wind has worked best for me, with my vehicle parked close to block the brunt of it. Savannah is right on the money, there. Your hut may pull sideways during a big blow but if you leave a good gap at ground level and check your ropes etc frequently it will stay put.

Orienting the hut to to face the wind makes the dust drop right at your tent (set up inside, right?) so, back into the wind or use your broom to sweep out the drifts a couple of times a day. Oh and know you may have to wait to open your tent between gusts. "BE HERE NOW," the playa says, and you'd better.