help for bike tourists

[fraulein]

Alright, my partner and I are planning on biking to the big burn, from Eugene, OR...we're ambitious! We've never been to the big burn before, and so we are doing our best to prepare for this big adventure plenty of time in advance. We're working on joining a camp and it would be ideal to find one that could help us with water/food once we're out there. So there's a few questions!

-Knowing that there are a lot of camps, but not really knowing any personally, anyone out there know of ones open to supporting us simply with water and/or food?
-Is there any way, any possible way, that we could be allowed to arrive on the playa before the grand entrance of cars? Apparently it is a dangerous game protecting yourself on bikes when people are rushing to get to the party in motor vehicles. I'm not sure who we would talk to and how we would get ahold of them to make this proposal
-Any advice on how to get there from the west via bike and general tips while we're there... like how to protect our bikes which will be oh so important to hold on to while on the playa?
We appreciate any and all wisdom, advice, experience, etc...

[lemur]

1.. doubtful.. people cram their vehicles with their own gear and its hard enough to get some friends to bring in stuff for you... much harder bringing in stuff for strangers

2. no, not possible.. no way.. never

3. no tips...

4. ..lock your bikes.. hide them.. dont lock them to stuff that might move or need to be used (like art cars, vehicles, shipping containers.. etc)

[Bob]

Ever biked anywhere in the high desert?

[Dr. Pyro]

Am I the only one who believes that this is a recipe for disaster?

[Rice]

Am I the only one who believes that this is a recipe for disaster?

No Dr, you are not the only one.

If they had good support on-playa, and they had on-road support, and they were experienced at long bike trips - I would still think it was risky, but not really object.

I do not get the sense that any of my criteria are being met.

Plus, she is a virgin. so no clue as to how harsh the burn will be on her. Biking home after a burn?? um, bad idea - poor plan.

[fraulein]

Am I the only one who believes that this is a recipe for disaster?

No Dr, you are not the only one.

If they had good support on-playa, and they had on-road support, and they were experienced at long bike trips - I would still think it was risky, but not really object.

I do not get the sense that any of my criteria are being met.

Plus, she is a virgin. so no clue as to how harsh the burn will be on her. Biking home after a burn?? um, bad idea - poor plan.

I love when people refer to me in third person... I appreciate all of your positive support, really. Seriously, though, I was kind of looking for real advice...so if you have any of that instead of simply shutting me down that would be a little more helpful. I know it's easy and fun to pick on the new guy in town but it seems like you were all first time burners at one point no? I'm ready and deserving of hazing when I get there, but let's wait till we meet in person.

The reality is that we DO have experience with long bike tours as well as on-road and on-playa support. Parents and friends and parents of friends going. Never ridden in a desert but thats part of the adventure. Based on the burners I know and love, I kind of thought this was a community about growth, support, and new ideas. Or am I wrong here? And I also thought that the point is that everyone brings new creative energy to this event...so why are you all shitting on my parade right now? Not getting it....
I respect you presenting the harsh reality but like I said, REAL ADVICE PLEASE

[lemur]

real advice: dont expect burners or burning man to be a bunch of hugs and positive energy bullshit

[some seeing eye]

I think you may find a camp or two based in your very home town that could work with you arriving on bikes. Good people too. PM OK. Nevada 447 South has a dangerous twisty downhill which bikes could benefit from a tail car. Entry from the 447 split North of Gerlach onward is not dangerous to bikes at all, in fact, you can bypass the vehicle lines and go direct to the gate.

[Rice]

Am I the only one who believes that this is a recipe for disaster?

No Dr, you are not the only one.

If they had good support on-playa, and they had on-road support, and they were experienced at long bike trips - I would still think it was risky, but not really object.

I do not get the sense that any of my criteria are being met.

Plus, she is a virgin. so no clue as to how harsh the burn will be on her. Biking home after a burn?? um, bad idea - poor plan.

I love when people refer to me in third person... I appreciate all of your positive support, really. Seriously, though, I was kind of looking for real advice...so if you have any of that instead of simply shutting me down that would be a little more helpful. I know it's easy and fun to pick on the new guy in town but it seems like you were all first time burners at one point no? I'm ready and deserving of hazing when I get there, but let's wait till we meet in person.

The reality is that we DO have experience with long bike tours as well as on-road and on-playa support. Parents and friends and parents of friends going. Never ridden in a desert but thats part of the adventure. Based on the burners I know and love, I kind of thought this was a community about growth, support, and new ideas. Or am I wrong here? And I also thought that the point is that everyone brings new creative energy to this event...so why are you all shitting on my parade right now? Not getting it....
I respect you presenting the harsh reality but like I said, REAL ADVICE PLEASE

Eplaya is a odd mixture of snark and useful information.

Since you mentioned that you were a virgin burner, you have read the survival guide?? http://survival.burningman.com/

Portland has a large burner community. I am not sure if there is a community in Eugene. I suggest you contact your local burner group (in Portland if necessary) and make some contacts. It is very useful to you if you make the effort. I am certain that your logistics of attending Burning Man will be lot easier with local support.

I know a couple burners who bicycled from central Canada (Saskatchewan) to Vancouver BC and then down to Burning Man from there (5000Km). They had support along the way (at various communities). When they arrived in BRC we had them camp with us. All of their supplies were ready. They did have a awesome time at the burn but were exhausted quite a bit of the time. I know they were thankful that they didn't have to bike home.

* Bicycle security - bring a good lock and lock your bike whenever you are not riding it.

* You might be able to get a local burner to bring some water & food for you and maybe camp near them and share shade.

I cannot stress the usefulness of local burner contacts.

You have biking experience, which I have great respect for. (I have MS and cannot do that any more) So, that means you can deal with any breakdowns on your biking gear? Do you have a bike trailer for your stuff? Tent? Warm sleeping bag (It can and does get below freezing), warm clothes for night?

Your burn will benefit from excessive planning. Your appetite will probably be lower than usual due to the heat. So, you probably do not need as much food. You can buy ice in BRC so, if you have a cooler you will be able to keep food/drinks cool. I usually live off of either boil-pack food or canned (since I have no desire to deal with the possibility of food going bad).

Some replies might have used the phrase "Radical Self Reliance", I take that to mean being as prepared and self-reliant as possible. Planning, preparation, food/water/shelter, dust masks & goggles at all times, etc. Sure shit happens and you might need help - but you don't want to be that gal that has to be helped for everything (aka: overdependant, helpless mooch) Again, local contacts can help you make this happen. (If I lived as close as you, I would be happy to haul some extra water and food (for cost) - so I am certain that will work itself out.)


Early admission to Burning Man is usually given to artists, theme camps and staff (DPW, PGE, etc) to help get the city set up. Usually these passes are issued to people who have demonstrated that they are reliable and capable. Perhaps you can get in touch with some Oregon theme camps and get on their crew. If that happens, you would be able to beat the major rush (although there seems to be a steady stream of traffic the whole week up to the gate opening).


How long do you think it would take to travel to BRC?

um, about referring to you in third party... It is not always clear if an eplayan is a boy or girl, so I sometimes regress to "they". I'm a sometimes surley, Canadian Prairie boy. .. It was not my intention to offend you with that post.

Sometimes we see a post on here about a plan to get to burning man that is not well though out and the poster is un-open to any useful suggestions. So, the first response is to shoot them down. If, they stay on and dont give up - the poster starts to get useful info.

Perhaps you might find some answers on google: aka search with "eplay travelling light" or "eplaya flying in where do I camp" etc.

Oh, It looks like Oregon has two official Burning Man Regional groups: http://regionals.burningman.com/us_or.html Please contact them. (My local regional group makes all my burns so much easier with their support and guidance)

Have fun, bike safe, light yourself up like a christmas tree..

TTFN.,

[Bob]

What I typed was "high desert". Much of the route is a mile high, more or less.

The roads from the north can be pretty crappy, though when I was a teenager hitchhiking up to Modoc I got a ride in an old bathtub Porsche and IT WAS AWESOME.

[knowmad]

I think you may find a camp or two based in your very home town that could work with you arriving on bikes. Good people too. PM OK. Nevada 447 South has a dangerous twisty downhill which bikes could benefit from a tail car. Entry from the 447 split North of Gerlach onward is not dangerous to bikes at all, in fact, you can bypass the vehicle lines and go direct to the gate.

seriously look into your route. and know this. Route 447 down from Suanville will bring you down a 1500 foot elevation drop over 20 miles of hairpin curves no guard rails and steep/high cliffs, there are few turn outs and heavy Burn Trafic. I have never encountered burners biking in this route, and think it is because of the danger to yourself and others,
While having travelled this route for the last 3 burns Twice driving a Converted School bus All I can say is I is very stress full and scary for the drivers of large rigs. If I came around a corner and had Bikes to deal with as well as on coming traffic I'd be screwed, Breaks are hot to the point of 50% functionality by the time we get to the bottom, if I plan for it. throw in the unknown and it gets jankey real fast. I have killed 2 deer, and at least 5-6 Bunnies (mia culpa) and I love bunnies, but it really is swerve and die on the way down, please don't ruin our burn by causing a wreck. If you are uncomfortable thinking about being talked about in the third person is tough, how would you like to hear us talking about you in the third person from the Grave?

You are a virgin at this, just being at the burn will be hard enough. what these folks above you all with 1,000's of postings each in this forum is something to weigh on your scales of logic. and I've been quoted saying this before.

"When you pass the fourth bridge out sign; the flaming death is all yours."

Bike tourist? you are aware that tourisim is strongly frowned on in our city. and yeah it really is a bad buzz word. <-just think of it as advice on what not to do.

[ranger magnum]

You want some honest advice?

Here ya go...

You do not seem at all prepared for such a massive undertaking. Your quote that "it would be ideal to find a camp to help us with food and water once we are out there" says it all.

Its not "ideal". Its fucking mandatory. Are you just going to stumble around until you find a camp that takes you in?

Im going to skip the host of reasons why this is a bad idea and cut to the chase: youre going to be a road hazzard. 447 is a narrow two lane road that will have thousands of travelers on it, many of which will be driving large vehicles that do not stop or turn well. You will not help matters.

If you still insist on biking out there, for gods sake attend one year in a vehicle first.

Experienced or not, its not a good idea. And I am a bicyclist myself....

[percussivepaul]

I've done some bike tours and I've been to the burn a few times, and I travel from the Northwest. The good news is that traffic is much lighter on the 447 when you come from this direction, to the point where I think it would not be a death trap. Also, I have heard of people doing this (coming by bike on a long tour) before. I think a good course of action would be to time it so that you arrive in or near Gerlach a day or two before the event so that you don't have the big rush of cars coming in with you. I don't know of anywhere to camp legally near the city, but there is a lot of open country and I suppose you could just throw up a tent somewhere. Once you've reached the event, traffic will be slow. The gate line will creep, and maybe they would let you pedal up past it.

You are going to need to be very well prepared for the journey, especially the last leg from Eagleville, CA to Gerlach which is 70 miles of totally exposed barren brutally hot desert on winding up-and-down roads with absolutely no services of any kind, or water, or anything. The road is very hot and exposed for a large chunk of southern Oregon as well, and there are some pretty big climbs and mountain passes to deal with (after Alturas, for one, and there are many more, but I haven't looked at the altitude profile cause I've only done it in a car). It's a beautiful scenic route but you'll need to plan rest and food and water very carefully, and I would even go so far as to look at an altitude profile and time your big climbs for the early mornings so that you don't wilt and die in the heat. I shudder to think how much water you'll need for that last 70 mile stretch. You may have to tow a trailer to carry it all.

You will need to partner up with someone at the event who is able to host you. As bike touring road warriors frankly you should be able to survive at the event with your camping gear pretty well, and you should be able to carry a week's worth of food with you, especially if you get dehydrated food and don't get fussy about what you eat. I have friends who've done extended tours in the remote places (eg. Alaska) who have had to carry a week's food at a time. Alturas has proper supermarkets and it's 100 miles away, which I would say is 3 days ride (generous resting due to the heat). So you can get most of the way there on your own. I have trouble imagining you carrying a week's worth of water, though, and don't forget you'll have to do the 70 mile stretch again after the event (pro-tip: wait till Tuesday morning to leave so the traffic is all gone). Therefore, yes you need an on-site host. And you'll basically be a liability to these people, because you'll be exhausted and possibly in need of care, and likely unable to contribute much to the camp. There aren't many camps who would take on such people if they were strangers. Though, if I had two friends who were doing this, I would totally help them out -- it would not be hard to bring some extra food and water. Work your personal networks.

One last thing. The playa dust is murder on bike chains and derailleurs - they get all gummed up. You may have to take apart and thoroughly clean and oil the drivetrains before you leave. (I've never done this and don't really know how to restore a bike - I just have a playa bike for which I accept that it is going to get beat to shit.) There are no bike shops so be prepared to do this yourself.

Good luck! Start planning the fuck out of this and you have a shot.

[Canoe]

I've done some bike tours and I've been to the burn a few times, and I travel from the Northwest. The good news is that traffic is much lighter on the 447 when you come from this direction, to the point where I think it would not be a death trap.

Despite the first hand personal experience of knowmad, and from the last three burns?

... a 1500 foot elevation drop over 20 miles of hairpin curves no guard rails and steep/high cliffs, there are few turn outs and heavy Burn Trafic....the last 3 burns ... it is very stress full and scary for the drivers of large rigs...Breaks are hot to the point of 50% functionality by the time we get to the bottom... I have killed 2 deer, and at least 5-6 Bunnies ... it really is swerve and die on the way down, please don't ruin our burn by causing a wreck...

The playa dust is murder on bike chains and derailleurs - they get all gummed up. You may have to take apart and thoroughly clean and oil the drivetrains before you leave. (I've never done this and don't really know how to restore a bike - I just have a playa bike for which I accept that it is going to get beat to shit.).

Bikes don't use chain oil anymore (don't like things gummed up and wearing out prematurely), but lubricants selected for the environment one will be biking through, be it wet, dry, dusty, muddy, etc.. There are a few well regarded for dry, dusty or sandy desert use. Check out MTBR (mountain bike review) forums to see what's most likely to be best; a lot of them like bombing around the desert. Don't know of any that are Playa-Tested...

Also check out that you're using brake pads appropriate for the environment too. You may want to switch out to a different type once you're in the dry heat. Bring spares. Don't be trying a new type for the very first time; you don't want to be on a steep descent when you discover they don't work as you expected once heated up from a large drop in the heat.

Your bikes would be exposed to the alkaline playa dust riding across the playa to BRC, but I don't think anyone would recommend you ride good bikes around BRC, especially ones you expect, and are relying upon, to ride all the way home.

...arrive in or near Gerlach a day or two before the event so that you don't have the big rush of cars coming in with you.

Sounds like this would be essential.
Gives you a quick break before living on the playa for a week while giving you some flex in arrival so you don't push too hard or do something stupid on route. But if you take an extra day or two on route, you have to have the fuel and water for that.

... I don't know of anywhere to camp legally near the city, but there is a lot of open country and I suppose you could just throw up a tent somewhere.

Sounds like a good way to get a trespassing charge. And not improve Burner's rep in the area.
http://www.ivesonranch.com/iveson_camping.html
And then depending on how your burn goes, you may wish to rest up again once off playa.

...Good luck! Start planning the fuck out of this and you have a shot.

[/quote]
Awfully late to have so little worked out.

Perhaps where this tour goes would be better handled by driving the route by car first, see the climbs & descents and their grades, and planning your overnights at the very least if not your stops through the hot & dry areas. As it's not a regular bike tour route, you'd also be able to secure permission from suitable overnight sites.

[gyre]

Why would anyone want to do this?

[Hoolie]

I wish I were going this year. I would offer to host you myself. I understand the concerns others have about mingling with all the motor vehicle traffic on the way in, but one route I have not seen mentioned is coming in Hwy 34 from the north. (Note I am just looking at google maps, so I have no firsthand knowledge of this route. You would need to do some research.) Basically:

Get to Cedarville, CA.
Take Hwy 299 East (which becomes Hwy 8A once you cross the Nevada border.)
8A ends at County Rd 34. Make a right (turn south) onto 34.
Follow 34 South all the way to the entrance gate.

This route avoids 447 completely, and I think you would miss 99.9% of the Burning Man traffic this way. From Cedarville, CA it's about 94 miles to the gate. 94 miles is more than I would want to carry a load in a day (although others have done it), so if it were me, I'd probably break it up into 2 days and find a spot to camp somewhere in the middle. I would say this route is likely to be hot and barren with no services, but it can be done. People have biked across the desert regions of Mongolia. Heck, when I was in Darwin Australia, I met a young, unassuming guy from Japan who had just biked there from Adelaide by himself. Basically, he crossed the whole continent from south to north through the heart of the Australian outback. Just make sure you are completely self-sufficient on this leg with water, food, shelter, first aid kit, and repair tools and parts. A trailer might be helpful in this regard as percussivepaul suggested.

[Simon of the Playa]

[some seeing eye]

Hoolie,
I have been very curious about this route. Any eplayans who have taken it? If I were a bicycler on that route, I would contact the org to see about camping at the ranch, or even volunteering with DPW. And Google street view, get on it!

[Hoolie]

Seeing eye, just mapping it out is giving me fantasies of doing it myself. I would also like to know if anyone has done it. It seems like a pretty natural route anyway for the OP, who is coming from the northwest (Eugene, OR). Plus, to me, getting to the burn without wading through the parade of thousands of motor vehicles has a certain appeal to it, whether on a bike or not.

[Rice]

Hoolie,
I have been very curious about this route. Any eplayans who have taken it? If I were a bicycler on that route, I would contact the org to see about camping at the ranch, or even volunteering with DPW. And Google street view, get on it!

Burning Man LLC is not going to let non-volunteers camp at the ranch. It is doubtful that DPW would take on a couple of Virgin burners with unproven skills.

Perhaps there are some things going on at the Burning Man headquarters right now.. Do you really want to bother them with this?

Radical Self Reliance.

(Have some ID on you so that the authorities will know who to contact!!)

[BBadger]

Sorry, but I'm going to call this one out as a troll attack.

- "I'm a burgin who has never read any of the guides so I'm asking all these questions that earned long responses like the other threads..."
- "Can the playa provide for my needs?"
- "Can we get special treatment like early entry?"
- "I'll keep rejecting your 'yer gonna die you unprepared noob' advice because I want 'real' advice to extend this as much as possible beyond the other threads."

Bonus points for calling yourself a "tourist" even if it is supposed to be in the context of bike tours.


What? Not a troll? Really not? Well, all your answers are in the above "other threads."

[Homiesinheaven]

hi fraulein!

first off know that eplaya is not the same as Burning Man. here, assclowns feel safe behind their computers and often fuck around instead of being helpful. dont let it get you down too much.

second, ignore the naysayers, people have done this before. check out these threads from people who have done it:

viewtopic.php?t=16528
viewtopic.php?t=12886
viewtopic.php?t=34418

i also vaguely remember seeing a guide or write up on this experience so ask around. here's a thread on Theme Camps seeking people:

viewtopic.php?t=54139

as far as arriving early it is possible but you need an Early Entry Pass. in order to get one of those you'll have to be a part of a Theme Camp that is working out there before people arrive. if you volunteer with someone needing help on a camp or an art project of some sort it is possible.

finally, make sure you read the Survival Guide forwards and backwards. by biking there you're making this experience many many times harder but also perhaps more memorable.

good luck!

[BBadger]

Yeah, ignore the naysayers! And check out all those awesome threads listed by Homiesinheaven of people asking about biking to BRC (sometimes becoming indignant about their rejected idea), and never actually reporting back that they did it... or even returning to ePlaya again for that matter . Just make sure that if you die, you do it before you arrive at the playa so you don't leave MOOP.

[gyre]

I saw people arriving by bike early in 2005, going north.

Doesn't make it safe though.
Bit more traffic now.

[percussivepaul]

[quote]Despite the first hand personal experience of knowmad, and from the last three burns?[/quote]

Regarding the 447, I meant that there is much less traffic than approaching from the south via Reno, which would be pretty much unthinkable due to the traffic. However, my memories of the elevation and safety of the route from the North come from driving a car, which is probably the least useful type of memory, since cars are easy. The people who have driven heavy vehicles will have a much better picture of the road and indeed it sounds like that descent is going to be very dangerous. (Likewise the ascent on the way back as the trucks try to pass you while you very slowly climb.) And while the burner traffic will be relatively light compared to the south, it will still be steady even well before the event, and a lot of it will be heavy vehicles. Therefore I strongly support the suggestions to explore a more circuitous route that avoids the 447.

[Savannah]

Bikes don't use chain oil anymore (don't like things gummed up and wearing out prematurely), but lubricants selected for the environment one will be biking through, be it wet, dry, dusty, muddy, etc.. There are a few well regarded for dry, dusty or sandy desert use. Check out MTBR (mountain bike review) forums to see what's most likely to be best; a lot of them like bombing around the desert. Don't know of any that are Playa-Tested...

"White Lightning: Clean Ride" is playa-tested, and comes highly recommended to me by folks I trust. (One must start with a clean chain, of course.)

Good luck, Fraulein. No one can stop you from trying, that's for sure.

[Canoe]

...chain ... lubricants ... well regarded for dry, dusty or sandy desert use. Check out MTBR (mountain bike review) forums to see what's most likely to be best; a lot of them like bombing around the desert. Don't know of any that are Playa-Tested...

"White Lightning: Clean Ride" is playa-tested, and comes highly recommended to me by folks I trust. (One must start with a clean chain, of course.)

Very nice to know!
Did they have any tips on a lube or protecting grease for protecting quality bike components from the playa?

[lemur]

dont bring quality bike components to the playa.

[Savannah]

...chain ... lubricants ... well regarded for dry, dusty or sandy desert use. Check out MTBR (mountain bike review) forums to see what's most likely to be best; a lot of them like bombing around the desert. Don't know of any that are Playa-Tested...

"White Lightning: Clean Ride" is playa-tested, and comes highly recommended to me by folks I trust. (One must start with a clean chain, of course.)

Very nice to know!
Did they have any tips on a lube or protecting grease for protecting quality bike components from the playa?

I didn't ask about the body, or other components. Clean Ride lube (technically a "self-cleaning" wax) is just for the chain and cogs.

[Canoe]

dont bring quality bike components to the playa.

But if you do (like the quality the 'bike tourists' would need to reliably complete their ride to the playa), what can be done to protect such while on playa? Not everyone will have a Ti frame, and then there's the components.
(I assume a full tear down, clean and regrease is required once off playa.)