New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 2012

[lucky420]

moonrise
but you'd be in line, after Lucky420

moonrise,
Have I told you lately that I love you?
cuz I dooooooo

[moonrise]

Which quote vargaso?

ETA: Awwwww, Lucky420 keep your chin up, and I'm sorry you didn't know to enter pre sale (who knew? none of us that did knew we'd win, and we were excited when we did) or to game the system like all the wealthy camps did, shucks. Wow, am I being a cyninical prick today! Unlike me I swear to Larry, I really do. Keep trying for tix and if no tix for you n the 2 kids, then maybe I'll see you all at an alternate event in the Reno area!?!!

[5280MeV]

In any case, I think that the 10,000 ticket distribution makes this discussion completely academic. The big camps are going to have supercharged LNT plans, they will be bending over backwards to interact with newcomers, and everything should be more or less ok.

Whatever happens it will certainly be an interesting year. In human terms the part of this fiasco that bothers me the most is the fact that it tearing up playa families. Last year I was in AEZ and my neighbors were a great group of folks, most of whom were in their 40's, 50's and 60's, and they ran a wonderful bar that was open during daylight hours. The camp has been around for a while. I made good friends with one of the camp members, stayed until Tuesday in order to help my new friends break down their camp and and one of them gave me a ride back to Reno. Those folks are good people and I was looking forward to camping with them this year because I wanted to help them continue to gift something beautiful to the community. I felt as though after 4 burns I had finally found "my people". I'm scared to find out how many/few of the members of the camp actually got tickets.

Yes, I agree with this part - let me backtrack/clarify - I meant that discussion of the "Woodstock '99 Apocalypse" is now pretty much academic with the 10,000 ticket distribution to camps.

It felt very strange - and not fun at all - to displace other people by getting a ticket. I think that the event - as an event - will be a success. The discussion of what this means to the people who have been doing this for a while and formed groups of friends - that is very real.

[Eric]

I don't think the "Woodstock '99" scenario could have happened in any case. The level of law enforcement combined with the all the regular Burners who don't want their camps trashed would stop dead those scenarios. Camps didn't have flame-cannons at Woodstock '99, and there's no vendors to be angry at other than Artica & Center Camp (the overpriced water with no alternatives was one of the causes of the riot).

[Sandstorm]

...Reno is close to many other desert locations suitable for alt events, not the big burn but close enough.

When I was getting a ride back to Reno last year my friend was talking about some of the burner events that take place in the area during the warm weather months. I will have to ask her more details about those events.

It felt very strange - and not fun at all - to displace other people by getting a ticket. I think that the event - as an event - will be a success. The discussion of what this means to the people who have been doing this for a while and formed groups of friends - that is very real.

You did not displace a sinlg person: a handful of people at BMORG fucked the pooch and displaced swaths of people and camps via their piss poor actions. You were just one of the lucky folks who "won" the right to buy a ticket.

The old system allowed well organized singles, couples and camps to get their tickets up at the start of the year and then focus on their lives and playa plans. Even though the event sold out last year I was still able to buy my ticket on June 5 and then buy a second ticket on July 3. If the ticket Lotto-ery fiasco had not happened I would have been ready to buy my ticket for this year's burn on the first day of sales.

I hope that you have a blast. The more I read eplaya the more I want to go just to spite the negativity and chaos that BMORG has created via the lotto-ery fiasco.

[moonrise]

Right on sandstorm (great eplaya name btw!) Yea, there are a bunch of various Reno (and Tahoe) and Northern Nevada & California type burner events, parties and such.

I think the Reno camp I know and many Northern California camps that were caught off-guard and didn't get tix are beyond words, stunned, and upset enough to attmempt alternate events, some BM sanctioned and some definately not BM sanctioned. It'll be interesting to see what might pan out.

[Max Callahan]

The old system allowed well organized singles, couples and camps to get their tickets up at the start of the year and then focus on their lives and playa plans. Even though the event sold out last year I was still able to buy my ticket on June 5 and then buy a second ticket on July 3. If the ticket Lotto-ery fiasco had not happened I would have been ready to buy my ticket for this year's burn on the first day of sales.

I hope that you have a blast. The more I read eplaya the more I want to go just to spite the negativity and chaos that BMORG has created via the lotto-ery fiasco.

Everyone _loves_ the old system, well the old system never had to face what is happening _this_year_.
Last year demand for tickets exceeded supply by only a few thousand people, this year demand exceeds supply by 10,000 to 13,000 people. Last year sold out, so everyone knows that this year you had to get in quick before it sold out again.
First come first serve would have been a clusterfuck under this years situation just like the lottery is being one. This year had 120,000 attempts to buy 40,000 tickets if that happens to a first come first serve system, guess what, thats a lottery also, just a lottery where inticketings server bandwidth chooses winers rather than a random number generator.

If there is a fiasco this year (and I'm not saying there is one) it's that the Borg didn't realize that attendance for the last few years has been kept lower than actual interest in attending due to the hard economic times, and that now that things are slightly better (and people have had a few years to save up) attendance is trying to rebound.

[quadraspleen]

@ Sandstorm, no. Lots of us poms around the place now. Some of my mates have been coming since the mid-90's when, by all accounts it was 100% batshit crazy
Last year (and in 2009) I spent a lot of time at HMS Excess (unnatural history museum in 2009) the core of whom put on the Secret Garden Part festivals in the uk. We had our own very small (20 or so including the SF lot) crew who we're coming back wih, called Shady and Wrong (no idea why )

@ Moonrise - why thank you I only use the word newb in a rhetorical sense. I don't know what else to call them. People, perhaps and that crap about breaking principles? That's my whole point; the core principles really make up what it should mean to ALL of us just to be normal human beings. It's not like Mein Kampf or anything. The word burgin/burgen/birgin (a prize for more spellings!) just makes me smirk a bit. I don't know why; just sounds knda silly. Use it at will. Knock yerself out.

@ Vargaso -sorry. S'what you get for getting up early after staying up all night writing tunes and getting straight on the boards. He must have quoted you. Wheels within wheels. He seems to have similar opinions though also..

And I hereby disassociate myself from any comeback should this years burn indeed have 30000 first-timers. No "I told you so"'s, please

[Sandstorm]

Right on sandstorm (great eplaya name btw!)

Thanks. I was unexpectedly given the name back in '10 by a BRC bartender. It took me many months before I felt man enough to use the name.

Everyone _loves_ the old system, well the old system never had to face what is happening _this_year_.

Max, I should add that I spoke about the old system more in response to 5280MeV's comment about his/her sense that they had displaced aother Burner. I know that the new system has been debated to death and I don't mean to try to regurgitate aspects of that debate. When I wrote my comments I was thinking about my sense that no matter what increase there was bound to be in ticket sales this year the number was never going to be as large as there ended up being via the lottery. The astronomical number of tickets requested during the lottery was due to people trying to beat the odds. Yes, there was bound to be an increase in ticket sales this year and yes, the event would have likely sold out sooner than it did last year but BMORG made the situation so much worse by creating an artificial panic via the PR disaster back in November and it was that fact that led to the overwhelming demand for tickets via the lottery.

I don't like seeing virgins picked on or playa families torn apart or theme camps and art projects thrown into turmoil or burners feeling as though they displaced another burner. Again, I think that the initial demand for tickets was never going to be as bad as BMORG thought it would be. So much of last year's ticketing problems had to do with InTicketing's servers. Why the hell didn't BMORG get a vendor that could deliver the servers and bandwidth required to adequately support their customer's needs?

End of rant.

[robrob]

Amtrak. So yeah I would assume that who ever I am riding with would come get me from amtrak?

just a heads up, for everyone that thinks amtrak is a clever way to travel.

the train from chicago to reno last year was massively late (30+ hours IIRC; and our EEs were on that train).
the return train from reno to chicago was just straight up canceled.

proceed with caution.

[quadraspleen]

And @ 5280MeV: totally what Sandstorm said: you displaced no one. That ticket had your (metaphorical) name on it the moment you entered that lottery. Don't go there thinking that you are standing on anyone's shoulders. It was a lottery. The clue's in the name lol.

But @ Sandstorm - the BMORG are you and I. Not in a literal sense, but dyou think that Larry Harvey had any idea back in the 80's that his and his mates little shindig would end up like it is? We all made BM popular by telling all our mates how jaw-dropping it was/is. I think they were naive at best, stupid at worst with the crap-shoot, but I don't think flaming them helps now either. I totally agree with you about the old system. @ Max -that's the point I am making in another post. Whichever way it's done it's a form of lottery, but at least with the old system ppl Felt they were getting a better deal. Perception is 99% of reality. Also, it was a failure of technical not personal organisation last year. Jesus, if half the effort and man-hours spent discussing this whole debacle were put into making those crappy inticketing servers actually work...there are much huger events all over the world that use FCFS very well; they obviously just have better/more/different ways of processing the demand. There will always be losers in any over-subscribed event, period.

Jake out

[Max Callahan]

Max, I should add that I spoke about the old system more in response to 5280MeV's comment about his/her sense that they had displaced aother Burner. I know that the new system has been debated to death and I don't mean to try to regurgitate aspects of that debate. When I wrote my comments I was thinking about my sense that no matter what increase there was bound to be in ticket sales this year the number was never going to be as large as there ended up being via the lottery. The astronomical number of tickets requested during the lottery was due to people trying to beat the odds. Yes, there was bound to be an increase in ticket sales this year and yes, the event would have likely sold out sooner than it did last year but BMORG made the situation so much worse by creating an artificial panic via the PR disaster back in November and it was that fact that led to the overwhelming demand for tickets via the lottery.

I don't like seeing virgins picked on or playa families torn apart or theme camps and art projects thrown into turmoil or burners feeling as though they displaced another burner. Again, I think that the initial demand for tickets was never going to be as bad as BMORG thought it would be. So much of last year's ticketing problems had to do with InTicketing's servers. Why the hell didn't BMORG get a vendor that could deliver the servers and bandwidth required to adequately support their customer's needs?

End of rant.

I'm totally with you on not liking the guilt that newbies are getting hit with, and i hate seeing groups getting torn part.
I just keep seeing the idea that the old system would have worked, and it wouldn't have under this years demands, and you just happened to say it while I was up to rant.

I also totally with you that a lot of the numbers we're seeing in the lottery are people trying to beat the odds (thats how we get from my theoretical 70k people trying to go to 120k entries (all numbers pulled out of my ass)), but, and I'll admit to being part of the problem, under the old system I had 4 different computers trying to hit the ticket server in 2011, and I'm just an out of work guy with a lot of old computers lying around, the cheating under first come would have been nasty too this year.

[Jackass]

I only have one computer and I got 1st teir last year, so there...

[quadraspleen]

Me too. Both times. One computer. Only had to wait thirty seconds last year coz I left it a couple of days. In 2009 I got them in June! Glastonbury sells out 150000 tix in little over four hours (and doesn't usually crash) but then I'd rather stick sharpened rebar in my eyes than go to Glastonbury these days (too many noobs LOL) -seriously though toooo many ppl in a space about a fifth of the Playa. I think there has to be at least a theoretical max attendance at the Burn, surely?

[Max Callahan]

I just spent a while trawling the 2011 ticket forums and I have a couple of thoughts

Everyone was calling last years ticketing a "fiasco", if that was a fiasco we need a new word for this year, or, we all just like the word fiasco to much (mmmmm, fiasco, it is fun to say). In hindsight, how bad was last years ticketing, yes it hurt sitting in the queue for 12-15 hours and seeing your position in the queue vault upward by 100,000 places, but at the end of 2 days everyone who was trying to get tickets had them.

The flipside of that is that after 24 hours tiers 1-3 were sold out and some number of tier4 tickets were gone, so at least 27k tickets were sold in 24 hours, and more likely at least 30k had been sold, only the borg knows for sure. Seeing 30k tickets sell in 24 hours for an event no one was expecting to sell out (at that time) has got to be a huge part of them changing to a lottery for this year when everyone expects them to sell out.

[Sandstorm]

But @ Sandstorm - the BMORG are you and I...

Quad, I edited your quote because I understand where you are coming from and that is why in an earlier post I wrote the below underlined text:

You did not displace a sinlg person: a handful of people at BMORG fucked the pooch

I have done plenty of live event production work and I have nothing but respect for the work that goes into putting on a burn. The more that I have posted on this situation the more that I have tried to include the words "a handful of people at BMORG" when I am criticizing BMORG. Part of the reason that I wanted to eventually volunteer with DPW was because I wanted to put my money where my mouth is in terms of giving back to the community. I depsise this fiasco and think that it was 100% preventable but my I would like to think that my intelligence, maturity and respect for the crew that puts on the burn has the upper hand on my feelings of displeasure about this situation.

...and I'm just an out of work guy with a lot of old computers lying around, the cheating under first come would have been nasty too this year.

...and I have an office job that allows me access to high speed internet that I can use to log onto the BM site in a separate browser window and check in every 15 minutes and see how where I am at in the queue. In that sense I also had a leg up on certain people and that was never lost on me.

[quadraspleen]

I really prefer debacle. I'll give you fiasco last year but this years word is surely debacle. They've turned it into a verb. They've debaclised (thats debaclized for you guys) the ticketing process. I like saying both. Fiasco. Debacle. Both sound odd too when you say them more than three times...

[quadraspleen]

Sandstorm, I know. We agree. I know you weren't specifically hitting on them for anything other than the ticket crock. Me too re the hi-speed Internet thing and lots of computers but I CBA to sit there for longer than ten minutes lol

[Eric]

I really prefer debacle. I'll give you fiasco last year but this years word is surely debacle. They've turned it into a verb. They've debaclised (thats debaclized for you guys) the ticketing process. I like saying both. Fiasco. Debacle. Both sound odd too when you say them more than three times...

Last year wasn't a fiasco at all- there were tickets on sale for 7 months & plenty of "hints" to buy a ticket now, before the sell-out happened. The only "fiasco" was all those people who ignored the warnings & then blamed everyone else.

This year counts as both to some degree, but it was an attempt to correct the looming problem of being in a "sell out" environment as fairly as possible. The fact they thought "Burners" wouldn't game the system was a huge problem, the results are (or aren't) an issue depending on who you talk to. Yes, MG has called it a "disaster", but others who aren't on the board don't see a problem with the complacency of BRC being shaken up. (I'm somewhere in the middle).

The fact is we now have to live with demand being greater than supply. This is the first year of that and the Org is inside the fire trying to control it and making no one totally happy. Next year things should be smoother (though there is no way everyone will get a ticket, and the shouts of "elitism" will be never-ending now), but I still expect this year to kick ass & personally I plan to be there to see how this all shakes out.

[7chix&me]

I really prefer debacle. I'll give you fiasco last year but this years word is surely debacle. They've turned it into a verb. They've debaclised (thats debaclized for you guys) the ticketing process. I like saying both. Fiasco. Debacle. Both sound odd too when you say them more than three times...

I hear tabasco on tacos when I say it over and over...maybe I'm hungry...

[Max Callahan]

Last year wasn't a fiasco at all- there were tickets on sale for 7 months & plenty of "hints" to buy a ticket now, before the sell-out happened. The only "fiasco" was all those people who ignored the warnings & then blamed everyone else.

I'm not saying last years sell out was a fiasco (mmm, fiasco), I'm saying that in last years ticket forum, people were calling the day 1 server crash and resultant queue issues a fiasco.

What I'm saying about this year is that the lottery must have seemed like the best move given the speed at which tickets moved last year, and that we can't say that going from first come first served is what caused this year to be bad when it's more people wanting to go than can thats causing things to be bad.
I can blame them for not knowing we'd turn on each other once tickets got scarce given we already tend to fractionalize (see sound camps vs everyone else as a start), but given I can't think of a way for them to start breaking it to us early that this year is going to be a massive sell out that wouldn't then turn into a trumped up "they are just trying to drive up demand" I can't blame them hard.
This year is hard and triage sucks all around, I'm mostly not judging them on this year, it's how they handle next year now that supply is an issue that's going to be important.

[Mosquitopilate]

Will STEP Emails be issued on 2-29-2012 or before?

[quadraspleen]

This year is hard and triage sucks all around, I'm mostly not judging them on this year, it's how they handle next year now that supply is an issue that's going to be important.

Touché...

[Blacksheep]

It seems as though the ticketing problems may have forever changed the community that I sought out and found at BRC years ago. The community that has always been loosely connected is full of infighting and hostility and frankly the event seems more and more like a mega-entertainment venue much like the superbowl or large concert. I find myself torn still wanting to go but afraid of what I will find if I go. I can't get the taste out of my mouth of the commercial feel the event has taken on. While I understand the theme and art camp decisions it seems as the the equality and "oneness" that I felt has been destroyed forever with the reality that there is a class system at work here no different from the real world and in many ways less tolerable. Like being told that your family is going on vacation but you can't go because there aren't enough seats and your brother or sister are more important than you....

[Shambala]

It seems as though the ticketing problems may have forever changed the community that I sought out and found at BRC years ago. The community that has always been loosely connected is full of infighting and hostility and frankly the event seems more and more like a mega-entertainment venue much like the superbowl or large concert. I find myself torn still wanting to go but afraid of what I will find if I go. I can't get the taste out of my mouth of the commercial feel the event has taken on. While I understand the theme and art camp decisions it seems as the the equality and "oneness" that I felt has been destroyed forever with the reality that there is a class system at work here no different from the real world and in many ways less tolerable. Like being told that your family is going on vacation but you can't go because there aren't enough seats and your brother or sister are more important than you....

First Blacksheep, WELCOME to eplaya. Glad you're here!
I can see how you are feeling about not having a ticket. I think over the next 6 months, things will loosen up and tickets will become available. In the past, when tickets were awarded, they were sent out fairly quickly. You are of course part of the family, despite being the black sheep, and with a bit of work, we will see you on the playa in August.

[Blacksheep]

It isn't not getting a ticket... or even not going if it comes to that...it's how quickly everyone turned on each other and the manner in which the BORG seems to have made decisions with little consideration for the effects that everyone saw coming but them...I still feel a connection to the people but having difficulty connecting to the event but thanks for the thoughts.

[Shambala]

I can agree with you on the appearance that you're seeing. It's like all the nice happy people in a holiday mood waiting for the store to open to get "door busters" on Black Friday. Once the door opens, they will trample each other and break bones to get to the $99 jumbo TV. The good news is that they will all be happy, hugging and kissing each other at the cash registers.
I hope you like my analogy. See you at the register!

[Sandstorm]

It isn't not getting a ticket... or even not going if it comes to that...it's how quickly everyone turned on each other and the manner in which the BORG seems to have made decisions with little consideration for the effects that everyone saw coming but them...I still feel a connection to the people but having difficulty connecting to the event but thanks for the thoughts.

Blacksheep: I have spent a lot of time on eplaya in recent days and it has been both an enlightening and disheartening experience and both sensations originate from the fact that there are so many people who care about the event and the community that creates it. I spent a lot of time here yesterday and when I got home last night I found that my brain was writing a "burner's lament" about many of the special moments that I have had at BRC, moments that had more to do with the quiet side of BRC. I found that I was reminded of the fact that BRC is a place where I feel "normal", not simply because I get to fly my freak flag but because so many people in BRC are being emotionally available in a way that reflects how I live my life in the default world. It's so refreshing to be around so many people who are being emotionally open and available. So, yeah, it broke my heart when I came across anti-virgin sentiments, first on FB and then here on eplaya. When I woke up this morning I once again felt a sense of disbelief at how f*cking out of touch a few people in BMORG / the LLC are with both the event and the people who volunteer their time and money to create the infrastructure and content for the event. I know that it's naive but even up until the lotto-ery announcement I had this sense that there were people at BMORG / the LLC who were watching over the event and the community with benevolent eyes and hands and who knew how much our HOME means to us. Alas, my naivete has been (rightfully) smashed and the incompetent and clueless machinations that lie at the heart of BMORG / the LLC have been exposed for all to see. There is no putting that Genie back in the bottle and I very much doubt that the trust that this community had in the BM leadership will ever be what it was unless the leadership chooses to burn themselves in effigy. As for the veteran Vs. virgin sentiments that have surfaced, who knows how that will play out. I've read more than a few posts in which veterans have spoken up on behalf of virgins and the contributions they have made to various theme camps and art projects. Part of me wants to get to the playa this year and part of me doesn't want to be anywhere near the place come the burn and that sucks because I love both the natural environment of the playa and the citizens and the magic that I've experienced in BRC. I hope that in the long run the damage done by this cluster f*ck will be dealt with and healed but I cannot see that happening as long as the people who made the decision about the lotto-ery are still part of the leadership team.

I can agree with you on the appearance that you're seeing. It's like all the nice happy people in a holiday mood waiting for the store to open to get "door busters" on Black Friday. Once the door opens, they will trample each other and break bones to get to the $99 jumbo TV. The good news is that they will all be happy, hugging and kissing each other at the cash registers.
I hope you like my analogy. See you at the register!

Shambala: That's a funny analogy and my heart tells me that the people building the city and filling the tents have the ability to realize the scenario you have painted for us. My concern is the form that BRC will take via the fiasco that has been created by a few people at BMORG / the LLC. I just keep picturing what BRC was like during the 4 years that I have been there and I imagine empty spaces where there were neighborhood bars, theme camps and art projects. This fiasco is tearing playa families apart and that both sucks and will have a very real impact on BRC 2012.

[Galaxo Magic]

Giant Douche or Turd Sandwich? you be the judge

monte, I get the South Park reference! Very funny......

[ygmir]

Giant Douche or Turd Sandwich? you be the judge

monte, I get the South Park reference! Very funny......

Don't eat Mr. Hankey!!!