Shut the FUCK up about virgins.

[solemnraven]

Thanks for the post.

To us virgins we really appreciate the sense of the real community. I don't blame those that are upset, they're just mad they didn't get their tickets.
I didn't get mine yet either but I'm not giving up hope!!

I'm very enthusiastic about participating in all of the side/ community events that will be going on and I'll be grateful when all
theme camps and groups and vets get their tickets as well. The vets help give the community it's true essence, and the virgins are hopefully welcome to
share in the (responsible) fun.

-Raven

[Sheyanah]

I understand & sympathize with Burners who are worried right now about the majority of their campmates not receiving tickets from the lottery. I agree that it makes it really difficult to plan a theme camp or create a large work of art when there is so much uncertainty about who will be there to help... But, I am getting really sick of hearing veterans claim that they have more of a right to be th...ere than virgins do. Were you all not once a virgin yourselves? This event would become stagnant very quickly w/o fresh faces & ideas! Maybe, just maybe, BMORG saw the clique-ness and "greater than thou" attitudes surfacing before this year & decided that the only way to make people play nice together was to shuffle things up so new people would have to work side by side w/ veterans in order to pull it off, instead of everybody sticking to their own groups & therefore making it an unwelcoming place for newcomers. My fiance & I are to be virgins this year (we are to be married on August 25th, and will be driving out the next morning), but we're not "new" to BM. We know and believe in the 10 principles... We've been closely following the event for the past 3 years & planning the whole time. We are traveling from the midwest (over 1500 miles one way!) to get to Black Rock City. We're committed, creative, and of a like-mind to all those that have been passionate about this event at some point. So please fellow brothers & sisters, can anybody restore my hopes that there are real, welcoming, friendly folk out there that still value newcomers like us? It's just disheartening to hear that you aren't welcome when you are so craving to go "home". Oh, and no, we don't have tickets yet, but I believe that if you truly want to get there bad enough, you'll find a way.

[moonrise]

Welcome Burgins!

[fenwick]

My theme camp decided that to properly welcome the burgins - free prime rib all you can eat - starting 60 seconds after the gates open and ending promptly 1 hour later on Monday morning.

Just kidding - but elsewhere an "orientation" for burgins be very useful, and tossing this idea around (seriously) an orientation mid to late afternoon on Monday where experienced burners, can provide pointers to burgins. (sorry the all you can eat prime rib is reserved for the vegans - wait just kidding)

As a gift - a large collection of reusable glasses - for the bars,
tips like purchase ice to gift a bar tender get better service,
what to see,
what to look for,
what not to miss, and this might be a real shock - you will NOT see everything.

I know a lot of this is covered in the guides, but an entertaining hour might be very useful in helping the burgins survive. It also would be an ice breaker of sorts as experienced burners can offer advice on how to approach a theme camp, expected behavior, what not to expect, and who knows - perhaps make a few friends in the process.

One of last year's interesting giggles - the vegans set up a booth promoting "Ask a Vegan" and across the street - carnivores set up a booth promoting "Ask a Carnivore" At first the Vegans were not thrilled at being mocked at - but after a few hours - everybody was laughing in the satire of it all. Apparently carnivores and vegans appreciate plenty of booze.

[tinydancr]

These burgins are wayyyy burnier than me. I sure as hell didn't get my tickets in January - by experienced friend had to prod me into it in late March. I was still scrambling to make last minute purchases in August.

I keep hearing things like "I read the survival guide 10 times" ... "Why is everyone telling me not to volunteer my first year?"... "What do you think of my costume / art project / camp / performance idea?" ... "I have been wanting to go to burning man for five years and am finally able to make it."

These people are SERIOUS... and it is only FEBRUARY.

this. thank you. the only constant is change. how would the event be if new blood never entered? lets all just take a breath, and repeat.

[Ugly Dougly]

The truth is that the core problem is the exponential growth of virgins who want to go to Burning Man, plus there are many "veterans" who insist on attending year after year. Maybe if some of the veterans would find it in themselves to take off a year or two, allowing the attendance numbers to go down enough to allow some virgins to get in and experience the thing?

[Ed Phunk]

Thank you for this post. Since getting into the "burner" culture 1 1/2 years ago (shortly after '10).. this is the first time i've felt disillusioned by the community. I am a little salty that i didnt get a ticket.. but i'm pressing on. not giving up yet. This is my year.. you just know. Hopefully the vets understand that now more than ever this is the year they need to "reach out". Like all communities, there are transitions.. this is one of those years. Be a part of guiding those along. If the event changes, its ALL OUR FAULTS.. especially if no one's there to tell people "no, this isn't the way we do things here"....

[lemur]

dude, ive been handing out gifts to the community for 13 years at my theme camp (of which 3 out of 297 people got a ticket)


FEATHER BOAS AND LOOSE GLITTER CAMP IS NOT GOING TO MAKE IT TO THE PLAYA IN 2012.

thanks larry, you killed it and wont even admit to it..

after spending HUNDREDS OF MY OWN MONEY on glitter and after going to every secondhand story in the city FOR MONTHS i get rejected and told that my gift of feather boas and glitter isnt good enough ?

dont they know why people come to burning man ? its the THEME CAMPS LIKE FEATHER BOAS AND LOOSE GLITTER CAMP THAT MAKE IT HAPPEN NOT THE VIRGINS !!!

[Finxiekins]

The moral of the story is this-don't just think that because someone is a "virgin" that they are there for a party or don't truly understand what "leave no trace" means. Don't judge a book by its cover. I am excited to return to the playa this year to meet all of the virgins and to share my story with them. It is a magical place, don't let your hubris change what it means.

This was a beautiful post and made me cry a little bit. I can understand about the early menopause, not that I have it, but I can relate a little bit. My husband and I tried for little over a year to have a baby without success and it's been a very trying time for us. We're putting a baby on hold so that I won't be pregnant when our friend from Australia comes and especially so I won't be pregnant on the playa. Not that that is a bad thing, but I'm very susceptible to getting sick due to a immune system problem. I'm very excited to be a virgin and leave no trace - but to also leave my mark on the playa in an emotional sense. I want to be able to help others, to get to know others and to encourage them to be themselves in every day life.

If you are a virgin without tickets - Don't worry! I've made many friends on ePlaya as well and have already been offered to join a theme camp and had several people reach out to me and offer to help me find tickets. Make friends here, make your presence known and the rest will fall into place. Even though a lot of people here can be downright nasty, it's not the true burner spirit and I see that the vast majority here are willing to make friends, to get to know you and help you through your struggle. You will get tickets somehow if you have the determination and you will get to the playa!

[illy dilly]

GREAT THREAD!!!!!!!!!

[fishinthedesert311]

I thought of something else regarding this thread earlier today: last year the Temple was the Temple of Transition. Hmm... interesting.

[Bounce530]

This event would become stagnant very quickly w/o fresh faces & ideas! Maybe, just maybe, BMORG saw the clique-ness and "greater than thou" attitudes surfacing before this year & decided that the only way to make people play nice together was to shuffle things up so new people would have to work side by side w/ veterans in order to pull it off, instead of everybody sticking to their own groups & therefore making it an unwelcoming place for newcomers.

This is pretty much what I was trying to say in this topic I started that quickly drifted off.

http://eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic.php?f=290&t=53790

[SUBLIME]

(Note to all ticket searchers: even virgins without any Burner friends should tell friends they're looking, just as you would tell your friends if you were looking for a job. It doesn't hurt to let people know you're looking.)

A virgin has to have decided by say March that they will attend, have the money ready to go and be lucky to get lottery or secondary sale tickets. If anything, this should be a great year for great virgins. Those who hove looked at the event for years and decided early on to make the leap this year. Those who have just discovered it, but make an early commitment with plenty of time to prepare.

Also, this ticket process has spurred me on even harder on the project I am working on. I will earn my ticket and place in the community.

Fantastic. [/quote]

Agreed /\/\ Looks like I will have a ticket after all. I lost in the lottery,and was truly bummed when it happened. In fact, out of a large group of us, only one card was charged and two tickets awarded. These beautiful burner vet friends are selling me a $390 ticket so I can experience it (her idea). I have wanted to go since 2001. I teach college and the burn is ALWAYS the second week of school. Pretty tough sell, no matter how much I want to go. After seeing friends go for years, obsessively watching the live cam on Ustream the last three years, knowing a large friend group was there, I finally made a commitment to go this year. My vet burner girlfriend and I have been making costumes and attending regional events since before the last burn. We have been planning, planning, planning. I have no intent in showing up as a tourist.

Now that MOST tickets have been sold and the BORG sits fat with cash in a bank (what? roughly 13M?), many, many people are upset because they can't go. Damn I understand your pain. So, if the problems with tourists and virgins are the last minute decisions and lack of planning and just showing up at the gate (or just not being you) then let's hope that this early ticket sales disaster minimizes the notion that "virgins decide to go last minute and ruin the burn". Everyone holding a ticket has time to plan, read the 10 principles, and make it an awesome burn. The Man Burns in 212 Days!!!

[fenwick]

An experienced burner will tell you with strong conviction - no matter how much you plan, prepare, strategize - something will go wrong. I look at the ticket process as being that 1 hassle unexpected. From now to the burn itself - the omen exposed, dealt with and soon forgotten - its nothing but warm glowing and happy trails.

But as you make the journey home - keep your eyes open - just in case

[VampireKitten]

I'm new, I have dreamed of Burning Man for years and years. This year I hope to go, but I'm not going to lie.. between the lottery drama, BM officials being less than helpful to our plight (cancelled credit card snafu) and long time burners complaining about every little thing (on top of people who have never been before)... I'm feeling less than welcome and really saddened because this doesn't feel like the sense of community that I had originally anticipated.

I understand everyone's frustrations, but man... this is ridiculous.

[AntiM]

Keep at it. This is a clusterfuck, but the playa isn't eplaya. Even if the event is different from previous incarnations, it is still unlike anything else.

[Finxiekins]

Keep at it. This is a clusterfuck, but the playa isn't eplaya. Even if the event is different from previous incarnations, it is still unlike anything else.

Is it okay if I just crawl to your feet and worship you? I hope people take your post to heart...

[SachiIvy]

Maybe that post to start this thread WAS a *bit* on the aggressive side, but I wholeheartedly agree.
2011 was my 4th Burn and not my best (2009, my 3rd, was BY FAR the best). Why? Attitudes, mine and the ones of people around me.
We had 3 virgins in our camp who were WONDERFUL - full of joy and love and wonderment. They lifted my spirits when I was feeling overwhelmed...
The huge RV, all-weekender, all-virgin, moopy camp across the street (dubbed Camp What the Fuck by us) was an example of what a BAD BM virgin looks like. They played bad music ("Who Got the Hooch" was the first song they blasted on Friday morning - no kidding. Super frat-tastic). They left trash. They were kinda obnoxious. They caused us to turn our carport viewing area around to shut them out. Problem solved (and we cleaned up their trash).
However, the attitudes I experienced from people ALL OVER THE PLAYA were horrendous. Lots of yelling at others, accusations, Burnier-than-thou, telling people what to do - it was super sad, abusive, obnoxious, and frustrating. And it was ALL vets. Not cool. The playa isn't your private party. If someone needs to be educated about MOOP or whatever, there's a right way and a wrong way to do it. I saw a lot of wrong way.
The worst example is this:
Sunday at the Temple Burn we were chilling on the back of the Janky Barge a bit behind the crowd. In front of the mutant vehicles there was the usual swath of people on foot. A large group of people had chosen to stand on the perimeter line. People who came in later wearing lots of DPW swag started YELLING at them, very abusively, to SIT DOWN. "It's TRADITION to sit!" "SIT THE FUCK DOWN!" etc. One guy finally turned around and said, "Hey, we're allowed to stand if we like. There's plenty of room over there where everyone is sitting. This is how we choose to have this experience and there's no reason to be mean about it." At that point, the 'sitters' in the back started throwing bottles and other MOOP at the poor guy. And this at the Temple Burn. SHAME - shame on them, I say! Who the hell thinks they have a right to attack anyone like that, especially over something as minor as that? I was so offended and it really put a downer on the single most important part of the Burn (for me).
Folks also started screaming at the mutant vehicles to turn their lights off. Obviously I appreciate that they weren't blasting any wompy shit at that moment, but really? There's a problem with LIGHTS now? WTF? Most of the vehicles did, but I thought that was lame, too. Sure - the laser kids who constantly feel the need to 'scribble' on the Temple while it's burning annoy me, but I don't search them out and bitch-slap them because they think it's cool.
Everyone experiences the event(s) differently and we all need to make some room for that. TRADITION - the girl who yelled that needs a good shaking up. If BM becomes all about tradition, then it really is dead. Tradition leaves no room for growth - or even room for people to stand if they want. Geez.
So maybe this year the vibe out there will be a lot different and more positive with lots of new people on the playa. We can hope, right?

[raftin]

I think that the best thing that could happen would be a year when all they allowed was Virgins. Even the people setting up the man and putting up the trash fence. Imagine all the opportunity and new ideas that would happen if it was an all virgin BM event.

[P.Ram]

SachIvy, I had a similar experience last year. Well said!

[AntiM]

There's a couple reasons I don't go to the Temple burn. You illustrated one of them very well.

Hey, we all have cranky moments out there.

[Magpie Sparkles]

It's cool if all the tickets went to virgins...just a long as they all come and built plenty of awesome theme camps so there'll still have cocktail bars, amazing art and places to go and hear great music.

[troyboyperez]

I cannot express how glad this thread has made me... I understand eplaya represents a very small portion of the community and that deep down the true burners are great people but the last three days reading all the mean spirited whiny childish hateful posts about "oh my god virgins this, scalpers that, I didn't get my ticket, now there wont be big theme camps, down with the bmorg, I'm not going, elitist llc took my burn away, they kicked my dog" ok maybe not that last one but my point is all this nonsense was so far from what I expected...

Given this year will be my first year and I am fully aware that no expectations is the best way to go into your first burn however my expectation wasn't of the burn it was one of the community.

I am hoping and trying my best to be a well prepared virgin I've wanted to go to burning man since my second week of 8th grade. I was at a friends house hanging out after school, one of those friends that every guy seems to have atleast one of whom when your young and impressionable seems to have the coolest older brother on the planet, well on that particular day that older brother walks in the front door looking like he just walked out of a fucking old tyme western flick just absolutely covered in dust with a back pack slung over his shoulder and the biggest smile I've yet to see on a face that was quite so worn the guy looked like he had just trekked across the mohave with nothing but the clothes on his back and had some how managed to have the best time of his life doing it. That was my very first impression of burning man. He proceeded to tell us about this amazing week long party (in the back yard ofcourse because his mom almost had a heart attack when he tried to sit on the couch) and for two hours he sat and told us about this amazing thing that at 13 I really couldn't comprehend... I ended up losing touch with the friend and have no idea what happened to the older brother but I remember how happy he had been after getting home from his first burn...
All thru highschool I heard rumblings about burning man and always new I'd end up there some day, I had faith that I was meant to be there.
A few years ago as an "adult" I started to meet people who went every year and I got involved in helping with local desert parties and started meeting more and more members of the community and decided that my time had come I turned twenty one in july of 2010 and started reading everything I could get my hands on to help me survive the event and decided I needed more time to plan so I pasted on 2010. Then 2011 sold out and I realized I could still do with some preparation so I reread the survival guide and what seemed like an eternity of smart ass post here on eplaya scattered with hundreds of useful tips and I watched the man burn online on the bmir live video feed and I knew that I'm as ready as I can probably get. I went into the lottery with a positive out look. Yes I could have not gotten tickets but I had faith that this was my year and I had faith in the community that people that could come together and make something as amazing as burning man could atleast be civil and patient enough to sit thru a simple drawing fingers crossed and and a smile on there face knowing that if they are meant to be on the playa this year they will be...
Boy was I wrong... Even in the community of burners I know personally... And the more I read the more angry it made me not at the bmorg but that all of these grown ass people who at one point or another were pledging there undying loyalty to the idea of the burn and the ten core principals represented there of were so quick to throw it all under the bus the second it became apparent that they would actually have to work to make it to the burn this year. Then for those same fucking people to be pissed that virgin burners are "takin errr tickets!" whatever man.
Maybe I just don't understand but radical inclusion means fucking everybody doesn't it? Radical self reliance means taking things into your own hands doesn't it? Civic responsibility is making the city for everyone and helping fellow burners right? and we all need to make the communal effort and make the step progam work so that EVERYONE can can participate, so that EVERYONE can receive the gift that is burning man, so that EVERYONE can leave the default world behind for one beautiful week. I am glad to see that nobody seems to forgo immediacy with all the "oh my god i didn't get my ticket right now" shit. Now don't get me wrong express yourself but come on I mean the step program hasn't even started and there is still a secondary sale...
Sorry for the rant... I could hold my peace no longer...

P.S. I didnt forget leave no trace i just couldnt think of a way to work it into what i was sayin...

[This Woman]

That had to be said, and in my opinion was perfectly worded, fuck and all. To each their own, I suppose.

The only problem I have with the message is that now I have an ancient Neil Sedaka song in my head about a river that people flocked to until too many came. Curse you gibson!

[ZaphodBurner]

Thanks for the post.

To us virgins we really appreciate the sense of the real community. I don't blame those that are upset, they're just mad they didn't get their tickets.

Please don't speak for me about what I'm "Just mad about."

You've never even BEEN to Black Rock City. You don't know the first thing about trying to organize a theme camp, or build and get registered an art project (any idea when the art grant deadline passed?), or a Mutant Vehicle, or get people to help build something huge when they didn't get tickets and don't even know if YOU are going to be able to go.

You're on the e-playa. You haven't even SEEN the "real community." People actually WORK to build Black Rock City, and that requires advanced planning and commitment. People don't just show up on the playa the week before the gate opens and go "Okay, volunteers. What should the Temple look like this year?"

The theme camp people aren't worried about getting tickets for themselves, they're worrying about getting the critical elements of the camp together.

Fortunately, Marian gets it, which means x0,000 virgins will have something to look at besides Center Camp and the Man when they get there.

[Mojojita]

I love having virgins in my camp - to keep it fresh and see it through new eyes and to see how wonderful it is when someone laughs so hard their face hurts. After all, who the hell else is going to laugh at some of our tired old schtick?

Dear Virgins, nobody loves you like the Greeters love you! If you come through the Greeter's Station when it is really busy (like the night the gate opens), we may not have time to have you appropriately de-virginized. If Greeters are slammed, we will be moving the cars through as quickly as possible. If you don't get to get out, ring the bell and make playa angels, please come back to Greeter's Station when the line is short so we can officially make you a citizen.

[ZaphodBurner]

Thanks for saying what alot of us were thinking Gibson. Burning Man wont be ruined if more virgins than vets go - it will just be different. We were all virgins once damnit!

What did you build when you were one of 40,000 virgins at Burning Man? Maybe this year the temple can be built by virgins, inspired by everything they saw on YouTube. It's probably the veterans who shit on the playa on throw beer cans in the toilets anyway.

The problem I'm having here is not that virgins got tickets--that's awesome. I love playa virgins--rather, the suggestions that somehow the theme camps and group art projects who are reeling from this are basically whinging and that Burning Man would be fine without them.

How did everybody like the Trojan Horse last year, or the Temple? Was it as good as the lack of it? Does anybody suppose that shit MIRACLES itself to the playa for your entertainment? Some of the veterans have thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours already invested helping create the spectacle, instead of just wandering around enjoying everybody else's deal. It appears that Marian gets it, so, listen up little campers:

Here's an idea: No matter what happens, I challenge you not to go into somebody else's theme camp this year and prove that they're not necessary to the event. Ignore anything by the Flaming Lotus Girls, avert your eyes from Thunderdome, don't go to the raves, if somebody offers you a plane ride, be sure to reject it because that's all-volunteer too and they're scrambling to find tickets as well.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to pick on the virgins or make them feel unappreciated, but the camps are in survival mode right now and disregarding the contributions they make to Black Rock City suggests it would be better if it was just a bunch of REI tents and U-Haul trucks. If I want to see 40,000 hipsters who've never been to Burning Man before, I'll go to a Pearl Jam concert. You can get tickets from StubHub.

CAVEAT: The drawing was, presumably, random. I'm not sure where people are coming up with the idea that x-amount-of-virgins got tickets, (except that but for one veteran couple in our camp, only our virgins got tickets.)

[MyDearFriend]

Seriously, some of you are really misinformed and/or confused about the whole veterans & virgins deal.

For most of its (recorded) history, the population of BRC has been pretty much evenly split between people who had been there before, and people who had not. The population of BRC stopped doubling annually a long time ago. So every year, yeah, a lot of folks came back but many did not, and a lot of people came for the first time.

This was not any kind of an issue until we hit the ticket ceiling. Now we have a problem. Can we keep our balance?

I think we can; even if ticket purchase preference were given to returning Burners, there would probably still be plenty of energetic new people in the mix; about half, I would venture to bet.

So, PLEASE, yon virgins, we were all there once; it was fantastic. You have a freedom that can never be regained. Listen well here, and understand: once you come to BRC, and fall in love with the playa and with your fellow Burners, you will be driven. You will be driven to work and give and participate at a level that rails at every obstacle. This is what makes BRC great: the unbelievable amount of COLLECTIVE WORK that goes into this completely amazing experience, bound by commonality of experience in a uniquely harsh environment.

This is what previous experience brings to the playa. It is not a snob thing. I think it would be dangerous (excuse me, even more dangerous) to have too many burgins on the playa at once. Mother Nature can smack you so fast you won't know what hit you. Minimal safety requires that a large proportion of us have been there before, and know how to cope.

And for building ephemeral beauty in a howling wilderness, TEAMS of veterans are required.

Please don't be insulted; it is what it is. Come and see for yourself.

[NessaZee]

The main issue I see that is angering veterans:
Do I/How can I/ Why would I spend the time, money and energy I usually do (plus maybe more) on a project(installation/theme camp/MV/etc when I don't even know if I will be able to gain entry into BRC?

Yeah it definitely sucks donkey balls. But this seems to be the situation...enough bitching....how can it be worked with?

Bigger, Better, Build on it are all things that are thought about for the next burn. We get pretty attached to ideas and traditions. This attachment seems to be what is causing most of the angst. but...how could we not be attached to such awesomeness? dilemma. and the rearing heads are damned ugly.

I see this year as a challenge year. Time to step outside the box. Drop the big cumbersome time and money consuming projects for next year. Or modify them. Figure out a budget that will work with the time that has been given (yeah, it's a privilege not a right, remember?)...and see what can become of it. We have a pretty amazing community, and I've seen what burner can do in a pinch...

Hmm...Do I not go because I'm unable to do what I had planned to do? will it not be as good? Or do I modify my plan and make the best of it? ...maybe it will be even better?!

And if that ticket purchase opportunity never arises? Time to take a break and let another person step in and dance
(yeah, yeah, easier to say than do...but at least it's a possible solution)

...and can somebody please explain why there is all this "I didn't get drawn for a ticket...therefore I'm not going." Er what? give up so easily? ...ok. HA makes it easier for me to get a ticket

[NessaZee]

ugh sorry i said enough bitching...i have no right to say.