sell licenses instead of tickets

[gpickard]

sell licenses instead of tickets.

One license per person.

Confirm identity upon event entry.

License is non-transferable.

Can be returned to burning man if one can't attend. BM will refund full or partial... BM can resell to those on waiting list.

Scalpers taken out of the equation.

Call it a "BRC Passport"...

if you think it makes sense, pass it around!

[happydragon]

I like the passport idea, but you should be able to buy more than one per person, I usually gift a ticket to my GF and buy them together, would suck if one of us got one and the other didn't. So some reasonable "family/group" purchase of said passports.

[gpickard]

You could purchase more than one passport, but it would have to be registered to someone. Each passport registered to one person.

[Rat Bastard]

I really like this. Similar to hunting licenses or gun, drivers or whatever. BRC Passport sounds awesome.

I proposed a similar thought in the tickets complaint/solutions thread. Limit lower tiers to only those who registered before BM2011. Noobs pay full price. Scalpers really aren't the issue. BM's computers that run the ticketing cue and sales are the problem. They continually have issues with them every year. Shrug their shoulders and say "Meh, it was a computer malfunction". Then how does Ticketmaster and Tickets.com have their shit together and BM doesn't? Thought BM was innovative?

[danibel]

Add a car permit and I am in.

Why hasn't anyone addressed the real issue of cars in all this ticket mess? Why not sell tickets to individuals as well as cars? Offer a cheaper price for carpools? Encourage people to double up and reduce the impact on the local roads? The whole entry/exodus issue could be helped with that sort of solution.

Just a thought.

[Joshy Neurotic]

why not just print out tickets with name on the ticket. and use the refund idea if a person cannot make it.

[bradtem]

There are ways to do this without putting a name on the ticket (and thus demanding ID to enter.) In fact, much easier is to just use the credit card used to buy the tickets, which can be quickly read and verified with a swipe, though you need a backup method if the card is lost/stolen. Also it can't be a prepaid card as scalpers would just buy lots of those. For those, and for the backup, a jpeg of your face, tattoos or genitals (if you plan to arrive naked) is all that's needed -- not your name.

And, as you will see in discussion of this in other threads, it also is no big problem to let one person have multiple tickets tied to them. The other people don't need to be identified in any way, as long as they enter the gate with the multi-ticket holder. In theory, a very dedicated and expensive scalper could sell you the chance to come into BM with them for a large price, but that doesn't really scale, does it.

[Galaxo Magic]

There are ways to do this without putting a name on the ticket (and thus demanding ID to enter.) In fact, much easier is to just use the credit card used to buy the tickets, which can be quickly read and verified with a swipe, though you need a backup method if the card is lost/stolen. Also it can't be a prepaid card as scalpers would just buy lots of those. For those, and for the backup, a jpeg of your face, tattoos or genitals (if you plan to arrive naked) is all that's needed -- not your name.

And, as you will see in discussion of this in other threads, it also is no big problem to let one person have multiple tickets tied to them. The other people don't need to be identified in any way, as long as they enter the gate with the multi-ticket holder. In theory, a very dedicated and expensive scalper could sell you the chance to come into BM with them for a large price, but that doesn't really scale, does it.

Some of us have given up credit cards. I do not own any. I would have to get one just to get a BM ticket? That seems absurd. I still have a debit card, would that pass for a credit card?

I like the passport idea. A passport holder could have more than one ticket as long as those folks that are using the other tickets arrive with said passport holder....

[junglesmacks]

Debit card = credit card

[bradtem]

I believe the current lottery plan also requires a credit card.

If you are not checking the credit card, this is less limiting, because even people who don't have cards have friends who do, and can give the friends cash to buy a ticket for them. But you can't bring your friends' card.

Prepaid cards can also work in a system that requires a card, but as noted scalpers can also use those, so they are not a great idea in an anti-scalper system. As debated in other threads, it is still uncertain how big the scalper threat is, and non-transferable tickets would only be used if it is believed the threat is high. You can get prepaid credit cards in many grocery stores, there are even a few left you can get without ID.

I don't know what fraction of tickets are currently purchased on credit cards, but I presume it is high. The total cost of credit card processing is 2% or more of the total take, so going 100% credit card is expensive unless you are already at 95% credit card. However, the $6 or so credit card processors will take competes in the minds of many with the hassles of processing cheques and cash. I presume the walk-in outlets take more than $6 per ticket sold.

If you don't think 2% is a lot, realize that Burning Man only pays 3% to the BLM. (That's the base fee, it also has to pay for cops and other non-optional extortions.)

[Galaxo Magic]

Thank you bradtem.

Curious, will this mean NO ticket sales at ticket outlets? I do not mind buying Tier 3 tickets and have bought my ticket three times in Sacramento since 2001.

[bradtem]

There have been no final plans announced, but the lottery plan described as it is will be credit card based, and it would be difficult to do walk-up sales under it. I could figure some ways to do it but they involve multiple trips -- going in to get your lottery entry, going in again to pay -- or paying first and going in for a refund. They aren't very good approaches though. If people could bypass the lottery by going to walk-in, the walk-ins would get swamped.

[britzbitz]

Can be returned to burning man if one can't attend. BM will refund full or partial... BM can resell to those on waiting list.

Right here is the major weakness in your idea.

SO MUCH ADMINISTRATION. The ticket admin for our festival would cry if something like this were implemented.

It's bad enough getting tickets out…getting them back, and then RE-selling them (with the potential for those tickets to come back to you when that person suddenly can't go)? Nightmare.

[Galaxo Magic]

If ticket outlets only had $400 tickets then they would not get swamped and those of us that have that kind of money do not mind paying for the convenience of having ticket in hand.

Just some ideas on an otherwise overcast day.

[bradtem]

If ticket outlets only had $400 tickets then they would not get swamped and those of us that have that kind of money do not mind paying for the convenience of having ticket in hand.

Just some ideas on an otherwise overcast day.

An interesting thought. As you may expect, Burning Man is reluctant to do the normal market response to scarcity and just raise the prices, not wanting to create an impression that Burning Man is for the rich and that they are after maximum profits. So saying, "Lottery at lower prices, assured ticket at higher prices" normally would go against that, it once again suggests officially in some way that wealth is the way to a BM ticket. (Of course, wealth does strongly affect your ability to go to Burning Man, but not by direct policy of the org.)

What you suggest might fly a little better, because it might be taken as not wealth that bypasses the lottery, but the effort to go to a walk-in outlet.

There are other techniques to fix scarcity with price but they have their issues. Normally, one way to set prices for a scarce item is a uniform price auction (sometimes called a Dutch Auction though that turns out to be slightly different.) What this means is everybody does a secret bid of their full offer, and the top 50,000 bidders get tickets at the price of the bid in 50,000th place. However, if demand is high that price could be quite high, and if so, would indeed cause people to complain that BM is for the rich now, and the org took a fat profit. It could fix the latter by declaring that any amount over some price, like $300, would be donated to Burning Man Project, but that would not fix the former issue.

And thus, and for other reasons, they have gone with a lottery.

[Galaxo Magic]

Yes, I see.
I am not concerned. I spent 15 years doing Grateful Dead tickets and their mail order system was a sort of lottery. Folks would embellish their envelopes in hopes that it would improve their chance to score tickets. I only got shut out twice in 200+ shows, both times because I did not get a ticket in advance. I will survive. I always do. There is always Hawaii!

[Isotopia]

Galaxco, you bring up an interesting point. I know a good number of folks who don't have a credit card or have a bank account. The reasons don't really matter save that there are many reasons for them not having access to electronic currency. This small but real segment of BM folks are automatically being put at a disadvantage given the stated albeit vague intentions of the BMORG.

And before anyone goes yelping at how that segment should embrace an electronic monetary lifestyle in order to gain equal footing in this proposed lottery, I'll note that more than a few of the people I speak of work or have worked for the DPW.

So I guess a straight forward question I'd put out there is would be to ask if the BMORG has taken this reality into account or if it can/will be addressed?

[trilobyte]

I do believe it is being taken into account, yes.

It's also worth noting that a pre-paid card in the amount that covers the purchase can be had from many many outlets in most cities, for a minimal fee. You take your cash to a retail outlet (check cashing joint, etc) and they issue you a card pre-loaded with that spending limit. It's a way that someone who does not have a regular credit/debit card (for whatever reason) can make purchases that require a credit card/shop online. Once the details and FAQ are posted, if it looks like that would be something people would need to learn more about, we can start looking into posting more info about it.

[Isotopia]

Thanks for the timely reply.

[Galaxo Magic]

Yes, feeling better already!

[jcliff]

Maybe they should sell permament tickets to Burning Man.....like a timeshare in Boca? How much do you think they would charge for a life-long reserved space?

[bradtem]

They did sell them to a lucky few people. They were $500 as you were exiting Burning Man 1997. I don't have one but I know some who do. They sold them because they had their money seized and were desperate for money at the end of the event. For many years, the people had a magic ticket but rather than train the gate staff about it, they just mail a ticket free to each lifetime ticket holder every year.

Everybody wished later they had bought one!

[HippyLabRat]

Get your passport at the gate with your welcome materials. Sell all the passports online. Pay with Amazon, PayPal, or Google Checkout. Easy peasy.

Why this is good...

-If you can't produce a valid ID for every individual, then no entry for those without ID.
-You could make a functional refund program with a secure login system.
-It would make it nearly impossible to scalp tickets
-Secure login would allow for dissemination of special event info to passport holders first.
-You can still print passports, you'd just get them when you arrived at the gate, with your ID... at the same time you get your welcome materials.
-You could personalize the printed passports with whatever name the individual chose as a keepsake/souvenir.
-Waiting in line doesn't need to take longer. Do the search at a "tollboth," while BORGs are searching their vehicle, other BORGs would be looking up their passport info and getting their welcome materials ready. (for regular-sized vehicles this could be easily done 2 cars deep across a handful of lanes)

[trilobyte]

No thanks, I prefer this.

[jcliff]

Thank you Trilobyte! Any idea how they are going to do the registration? Online or mail? Ouch! Last year presale was 280 I thInk. Up to 420 is a big jump. I also wish it was open to more than 3000. People are freaking so bad that I'm wondering if a lot more than 3000 are going to jump on nov 28.

[lemur]

in 2009 and 2010 (for the 10 and 11 burns) the presale tickets were $280 but only 1000 available ....i dont believe they sold out either year..

this was mentioned in 2010 "This pre-sale will run from Wednesday, November 17 at 10am (PST) through December 30 at 11:59pm (PST) or when the allotment of 1,000 tickets is gone, whichever comes first."

there never was any mention i saw of them selling out of that 1000 allotment, im sure they woulda said something if it did get sold out.. (could be wrong)

they are planning for a big influx of people.. moving to 3000 presale tickets... (as well as increasing low income tickets)..