Burning Man should buy land and fuck being a BLM hostage!

[ericthomasdavis]

Nevada is full of cheap land!!!!!

Find some, buy it with a 30 year loan, build a serious "non-dangerous" road to it, and set up for the long haul. Fidning land near a major road would be helpful...like Battle Mountain off the I-80

1) Stop being a hostage to BLM and their inspections, fees, and other hoops.....if it is your land you can do almost whatever the hell you want...who wants law enforcement out there anyway. All they do is look at the naked women anyway. They never helped me or anybody I know
2) no more setting up and breaking down......save bigtime on fuel, time, etc etc
3) no more limits to populations
4) no need to limit the # of tickets


Larry Harvey, you NEED to take it to the next level!!!!!

[Nipple]

It's a Do-ocracy! Buy the land and gift it.

[wh..sh]

That would mean some of you would never leave...

[theCryptofishist]

I've forgotten the exact figure, but between federal, state, and local 87% (can it really be so high? but it's up there) of the land in Nevada is government owned. "...full of cheap land..." is just another piece of second-guessing hyperbole from someone who needs to take a few deep breaths and remind her/himself that we really don't know how the system is going to work.
IMHO

[pyrocat]

I like that it's held on public land. It helps to bring awareness to how delicate something as desolate as a desert is to 50,000 people each year. Sure not all of them get it. I'm sure a lot do!

[ygmir]

and, there are and would be a ton of issues related to "owning" the land, that, since it's rented, don't apply to the BORG.
And yeah, Fishy, the vast majority of NV is government owned. But, yes, there is "cheap" land there, and, especially if it wanted to stay on a lake bed type terrain.

[ericthomasdavis]

Land by battle mountain can be bought 10 acres for 20-40,000$
Look it up first before you put incorrect information out there!

[trilobyte]

Sounds simple - do it, and teach BMOrg a lesson as you laugh your way to the bank.

[ygmir]

Land by battle mountain can be bought 10 acres for 20-40,000$
Look it up first before you put incorrect information out there!

who put out incorrect information?
and, it'd take more than 10 acres.

[theCryptofishist]

And in your research, I'm sure that you looked at the highways and distance from a metropolitan area, and looked up all the stuff pertaining to law enforcement presence at an event like this on private land, and the next 23 things on the list.

[Rice]

Land by battle mountain can be bought 10 acres for 20-40,000$
Look it up first before you put incorrect information out there!

who put out incorrect information?
and, it'd take more than 10 acres.

ygmir, you have never said anything about this subject that is not true...

From what I can tell, BRC is at least 5.5 square miles, that's about 3520 acres (I think). Using the above rates it would cost between $7,040,000 to $14,080,000 for that much land. And I seriously doubt it would be flat and desolate, like the Black Rock Desert we love.

I suspect, that private land or not, law enforcement would have a presence at the event... Unlike some, I have no issue with them.

Rice

[bradtem]

There is the "permaburn" project, and this has been suggested many times before.

One thing that is unique about Burning Man and the playa: There are few places you can have a large city in a completely flat space which can be bicycled on (and driven on by mutant vehicles.) Of course some would argue that other than in 2011, the last several years have not been very good for cycling, though OK for art cars. There are various playas in Nevada and surrounds, though few with a paved highway up to them able to drain a city of 50,000 over a modest period. In fact, we can argue even the BRD doesn't really have fast enough vehicle outflow capacity.

There are a lot of advantages to private land. A marvelous example is Oregon Country Faire, which conducts an event with 45,000 attendees (and about 10,000 "staff" who are really just the inner crowd who party late into the night) which does not have to bring in outside police, for example. It has many things in common with Burning Man (and there is lots of cross pollenation) though of course it is also very different, with official stages, spectators, and juried vending is a huge part of OCF.

Of course there was a big effort by BMOrg to buy Fly Ranch, the site of Burning Man 1997 when it was held on private land. That fell through, and it was not clear that the event could have been held there anyway without expansion onto the more public playa.

[swizzlestick]

I heard from friends of mine that have worked with borg, including one lawyer, that it comes down to legal issues in terms of buying land. If borg owned land, they are more likely to get sued when someone does something stupid and hurts themselves. With the federal government owning the land, that becomes a nonissue as the quagmire that is our government would not even register someone suing them.

[ericthomasdavis]

300$ a ticket times 50000 is 15$ million The land near Battlemountain is more or less flat....hell the currect land owner would piss his pants if somebody wanted to buy it all....

Bulldozers can cut quick roads/streets

Have EVERBODY sign a wavier.....I used to be a sky diving instructor.....we made everybody sign it or ask them to leave

This could EASILY pay for itself quickly

check ebay 640 acres for $139,000 and it is flat flat flat!!!! item #110770351686
another one on ebay (completed lists) 640 acres for $87,000 item #280747953587 currect list item #280764966369 4 miles south of I-80
PLEASE for the love of GOD stop being nay-sayers!!!!

No BLM artcar limits....just drive around instead bike

[ygmir]

300$ a ticket times 50000 is 15$ million The land near Battlemountain is more or less flat....hell the currect land owner would piss his pants if somebody wanted to buy it all....

Bulldozers can cut quick roads/streets

Have EVERBODY sign a wavier.....I used to be a sky diving instructor.....we made everybody sign it or ask them to leave

This could EASILY pay for itself quickly

check ebay 640 acres for $139,000 and it is flat flat flat!!!! item #110770351686
another one on ebay (completed lists) 640 acres for $87,000 item #280747953587 currect list item #280764966369 4 miles south of I-80
PLEASE for the love of GOD stop being nay-sayers!!!!

No BLM artcar limits....just drive around instead bike

are you daft, man?

what part, of Stretch80's numbers were hard for you?
5.5 sq. mi. is 3520 is acres (as you get further from Mt. Diablo, some sections change size and shape, but, , 1 sq. mi. = 640 acres)


is that tough for you?
If there were about 6 sq. mi for sale, contiguous, and roughly equilateral, it might work (remember, there are materials and equipment, that get stored the rest of the year).

Unless it's on a flat playa, "just dozing" a road, would not work due to weather and water runoff.

"more or less" flat, might be workable, but, it'd have a ton of issues, not present in a perfectly flat site.
and, try to get a permit, to flatten ( at huge expense) that many acres......you know, someone, would protest and throw road blocks up.

A waiver, means "NOTHING". you can not sign away, your constitutional rights, and, the right to sue, is one of those. The only thing a waiver does, is help your side with evidence related to the known risks. It DOES NOT, negate the possibility of a lawsuit, and, if you lose, you still pay.

15 million, is a LOT of bucks, no doubt........do you know the cost of putting this event on? Not including BLM fees? Not to mention art grants and the like?
I don't know them, but, bet it's substantial.
And,
you'd still have LEO everywhere, and probably still have to pay for that.
And, an insurance policy, would be astronomical, I"m sure.

We could also discuss, any "local" issues. Some towns and counties, may not be so welcoming, or at least tolerant, of 50K or so "hippies" ( or whatever name they'd apply) invading once per year.
And, a local sheriff can totally throw a wrench in any plans.
Do you know, the county sheriff, is the highest law enforcement officer, for his jurisdiction, in the land? That's another constitutional thing. That person, holds the cards.


yeah, you've got a great idea.......and perhaps you really are the first one to think of it.
But, as you're putting it, it's still not workable.
Sounds great, though.
And, don't forget, just because it's "private property" all laws of the land, still apply.

But, keep trying....you may well happen upon the perfect place, and when you do, other might just jump on your wagon, at that time.

[ericthomasdavis]

If people would stop being nay-sayer and try to add to this and come up with something workable

30 year loan to spread out the cost

By the way...how much land of BM is worthless space wasted....you don't think a square mile or 2 can make it all happen?

[Rice]

If people would stop being nay-sayer and try to add to this and come up with something workable

30 year loan to spread out the cost

By the way...how much land of BM is worthless space wasted....you don't think a square mile or 2 can make it all happen?

3 years ago 5.5 square miles was used for BRC. A larger population will require even more space.

If there was 10 square miles of land that was flat like the Black Rock Desert playa, it might be doable. (Even that might be too small for 70,000+ people)

I am not being a nay-sayer, but realistic. There is no point to purchasing to little land.

Rice

[bradtem]

People have discussed this since the early 90s, when they first started requiring permits etc. The one time on private land ended badly for a variety of reasons, some of which could be fixed with planning.

But it is hard to get a spot where you can bike anywhere. Driving was banned after 1996, when people were KILLED because folks drove from camp to camp back then, and in one case a drunk driving at night ran over a tent. This was not a BLM requirement. Even 50,000 isn't really a BLM requirement, it's a capacity of the roads requirement. They made the city bigger a few years ago, people hated it, and it was shrunk back. The amount of land is not the issue.

That said, with the right effort and planning, private events do work. Oregon Country Faire is attended by many BM folks, staff and board. (And Burning Man attended by many OCF folks.) OCF takes place on land that floods for part of the year and is thus not too valuable -- except for a seasonal event like OCF. Of course the playa is also like that. That's the sort of land to look for, land that's really useless for most other uses. And it has to have no neighbours because BRC is very loud. So 5 square miles is only the start. And then there's the politics from locals who don't want 50,000 drug-crazed hippies (their view) going through their neighbourhoods, and only getting a few extra sales at their store and gas station in return.

It can be done, but it's quite a challenge. Finding suitable cheap land is just the start.

[BBadger]

1) Stop being a hostage to BLM and their inspections, fees, and other hoops.....if it is your land you can do almost whatever the hell you want...who wants law enforcement out there anyway. All they do is look at the naked women anyway. They never helped me or anybody I know

Those regulations will not suddenly go away. If anything, it would make BMORG even more liable for the actions of the people at their "private party."

2) no more setting up and breaking down......save bigtime on fuel, time, etc etc

Right, especially when the lake bed fills with water.

3) no more limits to populations

4) no need to limit the # of tickets

Oh great, more riff-raff! I sure did enjoy all those darktards that got the tail-end of those tickets this year! I wish we had fewer tickets and just better people!

I'm sorry, what were the benefits again?

[theCryptofishist]

If people would stop being nay-sayer and try to add to this and come up with something workable

I understand that if we clap our hands because we believe in the Playachicken we will, indeed, get the land. Because the only thing that makes this impossible is the fact that people are putting forth reasonable, well thought out suggestions and corrections.
Bastards!

[Rice]

I wonder how the OP's petition is going?

[EspressoDude]

check out the Big Muddy Ranch near Antelope Oregon. 64000 acres with an interesting history...Might be available...

[Rice]

check out the Big Muddy Ranch near Antelope Oregon. 64000 acres with an interesting history...Might be available...

Well, that should give enough space for a couple more years

Maybe I am missing something, but it does not appear to be that flat though... It is, however, about 5 hours hours closer to me. But will double the travel time for those burners from San Francisco. (Oh, I hear the complaints about the Looong drive already. )

Speculation is interesting.

Rice

[bradtem]

The distance of the event from most of its participants is no trivial thing. My estimates suggest we burn a million gallons of fuel, and probably a fair bit more, getting to Burning Man. Even from San Francisco, bringing a heavy truck or RV up to the playa involves around 100 gallons of gasoline ($350 to $400) and anywhere from $200 to $300 in mileage depreciation at the RV rental place rates which tend to be 30 to 50 cents/mile. Even a 30mpg car still will burn 27 gallons. The people who fly in burn a lot as well of course.

So if you wanted to minimize the event's impact you would put it on land in the Central or Salinas valleys. Not that the neighbours would allow it and nor could you afford it.

Not to mention that the fact that there is a heavy SF and LA demographic at Burning Man is in part because of its location, and so if it were in Oregon there would be more BC/Wash/OR folks and fewer LA/SD folks. But don't discount the cost to the environment or the participants if you put it further away from them.

[SnowBlind]

I've forgotten the exact figure, but between federal, state, and local 87% (can it really be so high? but it's up there) of the land in Nevada is government owned.

According to this site the federal government alone owns 84.5%. Highest Percentage of any state.

(Which is funny, cause I always thought Alaska was even higher (like 95%, but the linked site states 69%))

[moonrise]

I've forgotten the exact figure, but between federal, state, and local 87% (can it really be so high? but it's up there) of the land in Nevada is government owned.

According to this site the federal government alone owns 84.5%. Highest Percentage of any state.

(Which is funny, cause I always thought Alaska was even higher (like 95%, but the linked site states 69%))

Are they still giving it away up there in Alaska? Home Stead style. I have freinds who have Home Steaded (2) 80 acre places, next to eachother, you couldn't drag me there (again) what a fucking brutal place. Snow in August, fuck that! They do have glacial ice, great for cocktails!! The muskeg, will eat ya alive. Unreal. (bushplanes are good! fun way to get away and see untouched places)

Next time it's a cruise ship, or nothing. AK is expensive and you need a tank to get around & big ass bear rifles, huge knives, the odd baseball bat(s) et cetera, IMO. (except the easy parts Juno, lol) Last time I went, I flew there and back home, someone poluted the air in the commercial plane, I almost died from the germs they spewed. I drove straight to ER in Reno. Alaskans hole up all winter, then party 23 hours a day in summer, they get ill...unless you're rich and can afford quadruple paned windows, you freeze your ass off. We got into two fist fights (twice!!) for mistaken baby backpacks and they were babies in BOTH backpacks! Some crazy ass AK bitch attacked my AK friends wife, she mistook our backpack for HER backpack, I got a black eye, others were hurt worse, 'turned into a Mantanuska County Fair brawl!!.... this is juuust the tip of the ice berg of how they behave up there....I can list 100+ knarly incidents, and maybe 12 beautiful ones. Take the cruise, skip the land trip(s) as much as possible. If you do the land, bring a camera AND a gun(s). The distant Mtn scenery is amazing, great photog ops, BUT don't forget your weapons.

On one trip there, during the first week....a Volcano went off, a huge black bird smashed our windshield, 2 Aussies were torn in half while being saved from the quicksand via helicopter, (RIP Aussies) and we finished up by watching Killer whales feed on Beluga whales for hours and hours (knarly, knarly blood bath!!)... what a week.

I will say this, I came back from living up there, MUCH MUCH tougher, what a fucking place...

Glad you had a good time up there Lucky420 & you made it home alive!

[ygmir]

I've forgotten the exact figure, but between federal, state, and local 87% (can it really be so high? but it's up there) of the land in Nevada is government owned.

According to this site the federal government alone owns 84.5%. Highest Percentage of any state.

(Which is funny, cause I always thought Alaska was even higher (like 95%, but the linked site states 69%))

Are they still giving it away up there in Alaska? Home Stead style. I have freinds who have Home Steaded (2) 80 acre places, next to eachother, you couldn't drag me there (again) what a fucking brutal place. Snow in August, fuck that! They do have glacial ice, great for cocktails!! The muskeg, will eat ya alive. Unreal. (bushplanes are good! fun way to get away and see untouched places)

Next time it's a cruise ship, or nothing. AK is expensive and you need a tank to get around & big ass bear rifles, huge knives, the odd baseball bat(s) et cetera, IMO. (except the easy parts Juno, lol) Last time I went, I flew there and back home, someone poluted the air in the commercial plane, I almost died from the germs they spewed. I drove straight to ER in Reno. Alaskans hole up all winter, then party 23 hours a day in summer, they get ill...unless you're rich and can afford quadruple paned windows, you freeze your ass off. We got into two fist fights (twice!!) for mistaken baby backpacks and they were babies in BOTH backpacks! Some crazy ass AK bitch attacked my AK friends wife, she mistook our backpack for HER backpack, I got a black eye, others were hurt worse, 'turned into a Mantanuska County Fair brawl!!.... this is juuust the tip of the ice berg of how they behave up there....I can list 100+ knarly incidents, and maybe 12 beautiful ones. Take the cruise, skip the land trip(s) as much as possible. If you do the land, bring a camera AND a gun(s). The distant Mtn scenery is amazing, great photog ops, BUT don't forget your weapons.

On one trip there, during the first week....a Volcano went off, a huge black bird smashed our windshield, 2 Aussies were torn in half while being saved from the quicksand via helicopter, (RIP Aussies) and we finished up by watching Killer whales feed on Beluga whales for hours and hours (knarly, knarly blood bath!!)... what a week.

I will say this, I came back from living up there, MUCH MUCH tougher, what a fucking place...

Glad you had a good time up there Lucky420 & you made it home alive!

interesting, Moon.........I had the opposite impressions and feelings, in AK. I've been there in August, and December/Jan. Loved both.

[Galaxo Magic]

So enough land might cost $7 mil? I thought we were paying $6 million per year to BLM on the present contract. I imagine when we get the new contract BLM will get more.
So if a 5 year contract to BLM is $30,000,000. Seems we could buy more than enough land, even pave a road, remove shrubs, scorpions and all for $30 million dollars.....

[trilobyte]

Don't forget all the taxes and such that'd be associated with owning land. No idea what they'd be, but there are usually property assessments and state and local hands in the back pocket too.

[lemur]

if they owned the land it could be like Bonarroo!

they could have an onsite cell tower.. badass huh!

the VIP section will be sweet...

maybe even some paved roads, permanent street signs that cant be easily stolen.. plumbing!!! (at least a few public bathrooms please!)

this will be easy to do!!!

maybe even build some permanent stages for the music camps to use.

or a sealed in air conditioned center camp cafe..



we wouldnt really need the DPW anymore .. we wouldnt need to worry about moop either..

wow cool.