Give Hushville More Space

[Sage Venkman]

The neighbors of Hushville request that they be given more space next year. They were packed in hippies, look at the sat map. That is all.

[Dr Helix]

The neighbors of Hushville request that they be given more space next year. They were packed in hippies, look at the sat map. That is all.

So Granted. Done and done.

[trilobyte]

Actually, that was a part of the placement problem they faced in 2011. Hushville had gotten too big, and were actually denied placement last year. Fortunately, village organizers were able to reach a compromise with the folks from Placement, but it sounds like Hushville organizers just crammed the oversized village into too little space from what you're saying.

It's up to Hushville to plan and organize their camp, and limit the number of people camping within its boundaries. The good news is that based on what had been posted leading up to the 2011 event, improving the plan for 2012 is exactly what they were planning to do. You'd want to reach out to the Hushville camp organizers for more info on that, if you're interested to know more.

[AntiM]

Actually, Hushville didn't ask for any more room than they had in the past. There is no set amount of Husvillians, you simply pre-register to get the secret handshake (and on The List), show up, and squeeze in if there is room. If there is not, you camp elsewhere. So no way we were "too big", Hushville has the same footprint as ever, asked for the same amount of room as Kidsville or AEZ got. Why aren't they too big?

Hushville utilizes space more efficiently than any other village. Check the satellite pics. Before preregistration was required, we had Hushville Calcutta. Few planned interior villager streets, camps overlapping. We woke up to tents between the guylines of our shade structure!

Bullshit we were too big. No one knows the real reason, my money is on Hushville is perceived as simply a sleeper camp. It is not, although it is an area to be improved upon. Our percentage of "worker bees" is very high, rangers, P&G, artist crews and other volunteers and staff. We are also know as a good first year camp for newbies, we are looking at a mentor program for burgins.

[lemur]

the bar of interaction/themcamp'yness has surely risen over the years.. not sure if hushville is in the top 50% anymore..

as it is.. it seems like the focus is on the sleeping conditions for campers and regulating things the average joe doesnt carry around with them to a theme camp.. like generators

unless they change it up and do interactive stuff that benefits black rock city in general during the week of the event in 2012 id say save that space for more interactive ideas/groups/camps, maybe even some new blood...


the hard workin volunteer worker bee's can camp lotsa places ....they neednt take up placement spots just because they like being together AND have a job to do. (we dont need no stinkin radical self entitlement!)

[Packoderm]

I really, really like the concept of Hushville, it's just that they will probably need some sort of interactive attraction if they want to retain placement status. I've been by their camp a few times, but I didn't recognize it as a theme camp, so I didn't visit. The anti generator rule wouldn't have teeth unless they are placed. One thing they could do to take the pressure off is to request a placement spot out at the outer rings. If they could put even a modest attraction out there they should be good Hopefully it would be something different than just a bar that's always closed, closed, closed, and looks like a private hangout anyway. Just a game-room with pool tables and the like that is open to the BRC public would be something.

[ConnieH]

Hushville utilizes space more efficiently than any other village. Check the satellite pics. Before preregistration was required, we had Hushville Calcutta. Few planned interior villager streets, camps overlapping. We woke up to tents between the guylines of our shade structure!

You got that right!! We were next door and I was amazed at how well planned Hushville was. We ended up with a lot of extra room and offered it up to HV - but even then they didn't take up much of our space.

No one knows the real reason, my money is on Hushville is perceived as simply a sleeper camp.

That's my vote why HV didn't get placed...there were a lot of little theme camps in HV along D (I didn't make it around the block so I don't know what was on 5 or F), but there was never much going on, no big draw for people to stop. The large structure on the corner of HV next to us at 5:15 (Farmopolis) looked like some kind of bar or coffee or food place, but there was never anything or anyone inviting people in, so I took it as personal space and never entered. Putting some HV people along the street frontages with more interactive rather than spectator art, or a bar or food or coffee or something of that nature might help. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

All that said, I loved the Hushvillians and I hope you get placed next year. I met so many great folks who came over for drinks or coffee or to just hang out in our bar and chat. Best neighbors ever...and I was pretty apprehensive being sandwiched in between HV and Kidsville and running a bar If there is anything Farmopolis can do to help HV with placement next year, we'd be more than happy to collaborate.

[AntiM]

We are one of the interactive projects, and we always get placed streetside... except this year we were in the Booby Bar camp.

Kidsville isn't exactly a rip-roaring interactive village, although they have some activities. Same with AEZ. So I don't know.... tons of speculation.

[lemur]

lol.

when will hushville stop comparing itself to kidsville!!



heh.

[jkisha]

lol.

when will hushville stop comparing itself to kidsville!!



heh.

Why don't you think this is a valid comparison?

Kidsville primarily provides activities and an environment that only benefit people that camp with them; as does Hushville. The entire Burning Man community as a whole get no direct benefit from either camp, but both camps are a tradition, and in my opinion an important addition to the event.

[lemur]

kidsville provides more of a service to the burning man community than hushville, even without any interactivity.

as far as i am aware kidsville began because the City Manager of burning man created it... out of a need for proper zoning of this important population.. (which is arguably more important than the people who prefer sleeping in quiet)

as far as i am aware burning man already zones a huge portion of the city for quietness....... its called "Walk-in Camping"

[some seeing eye]

Saying Kidsville and the AEZ are not interactive is false. Kidsville is interactive with families all over the playa and the go-to knowledge base for kid things at BM. The AEZ offers scheduled educational tours, workshops and is the go-to place for energy questions. It is more like an Earth Guardians dedicated to solar & wind energy, cooling and even greywater innovations. (I have also had hand ground snow cones and solar baked cookies there)

I really don't have an opinion on Hushville. And I would expect the org to continue to raise the bar on interactivity every year and the camps to respond creatively, including all the aforementioned camps.

[AntiM]

kidsville provides more of a service to the burning man community than hushville, even without any interactivity.

as far as i am aware kidsville began because the City Manager of burning man created it... out of a need for proper zoning of this important population.. (which is arguably more important than the people who prefer sleeping in quiet)

as far as i am aware burning man already zones a huge portion of the city for quietness....... its called "Walk-in Camping"

See, this perception is exactly why so few people understand Hushville; we are a community, we do have organized activities, some of us do need to camp with our vehicles, we do have more than just sleepers. We are a terrific support for new burners, for traveling burners, for older burners who need a neighbor they can rely on and KNOW will be there. Not everyone is suited for the isolation and randomness of Walk In Camping. I certainly would not thrive there, and my art project would be pointless in the hinterlands.

I do NOT think a burner with a child in tow is any more important than any other burner. That is ridiculous, in my opinion. They can camp anywhere in Open Camping and make contact with other kid toting families via Playa Info. But no, they have set up and run a village in the spirit of Do-acracy. Why deny Hushville the same, when we do pull together? The founders wanted aural greenspace, they created the village and were granted the space. It IS an important service for literally HUNDREDS of Hushers. It is about much, much more than sleeping. We're trying for a combustion free zone, where camps who choose other than generators can find a soothing place. Is that so worthless?

[Eric]

A big thing I'm noticing in this discussion is Hushville being referred to as a "theme camp" instead of a "village", as if they're the same things. They are not. If you read what constitutes a Village in the eyes of the Org ("A village is self-expressive, a village helps others, and a village should be fun"), Hushville fits as much as AEZ, Kidsville, or, hell, Fandango (we're a village, not a theme camp). A village is a collection of smaller independent camps around a general idea (ie: energy, kids, quiet... ), a theme camp is a giant camp designed around one (or two) ideas.

Theme Camps

"Theme camps are the interactive core of Burning Man." Harley K. DuBois, Burning Man's Director of Community Services & Playa Safety Council, hesitated a second. "I hate to call this a rule, but if I have to have one it's simple: A theme camp must be participatory." It's a playful challenge to the vast reductive desert landscape, an expansion of the infectious celebratory nature of the event. "The camps keep getting bigger and better, more thought-out and polished. But," she spoke firmly now, "you always welcome anybody and everybody."

Villages

We can now expect each village to contain a great number of theme camps, venues for entertainment, individual living quarters, a central meeting area, public art, communal eating arrangements, and above all, a willingness to welcome and embrace everyone that ventures into their domain. A village is, in fact, a micro-model of "community" within the larger macrocosm of Burning Man. A village citizen's duty has grown from a communal commitment to a civic commitment: Offering gathering areas, help, entertainment and information to those who enter the space.

[lemur]

what we call it is neither here or there.

we know what the real debate is about and whether or not we refer to it as a theme camp or a village the issue remains: how much space (if any) should they get.


theme camp or not.. the question seems to be: are they worth it?

in the past hushville (a village) has had more space than the smaller by size theme camps that brought in many thousands of people

compare the interactivity (read: reason for population of BRC to visit) of hushville village (and its myriad sub theme camps) to say.... one of the smaller dance related theme camps..

maybe the line between a village and theme camp is blurry.. i am sure it is......... but when one theme camp with a shitload of sound can outinteract an entire village.. somethin is wrong, yo.


hushville needs to step it up whether they are a theme camp or a village.

[AntiM]

I think there are too many dance camps. Sometimes the best burn is not some frentic hive of activity, but sharing a good time with close friends in a comfy camp. Which is precisely why I go to Burning Man.

[Eric]

but when one theme camp with a shitload of sound can outinteract an entire village.. somethin is wrong, yo.

You've just shown a huge bias. Why does interactive have to be about "a shitload of sound" or a bar, or a coffee shop? Why can't it be about a quiet place to sit & talk, a place for the non-party oriented Burners to hang out?

Making the assumption that everyone want the same interaction is ridiculous, especially from a long-timer. I mean fuck, I don't like to hang out at some of the camps my very best friends go to; I would never try to make an argument that "interaction" has to fit one mold.

I've never been to Hushville (or Kidsville, or AEZ, or probably 90% of the camps in our huge-ass city), but I think it's idiotic to say they're "too big". Look at any satellite map or air-shot of BRC; once you go farther back than about 'D" space gets wasted in huge chunks. There is no reason Hushville can't be planned for "D" or "E", which would keep them close enough to interact with the city but far enough back to give them space.

[lemur]

but when one theme camp with a shitload of sound can outinteract an entire village.. somethin is wrong, yo.

You've just shown a huge bias. Why does interactive have to be about "a shitload of sound" or a bar, or a coffee shop? Why can't it be about a quiet place to sit & talk, a place for the non-party oriented Burners to hang out?

Making the assumption that everyone want the same interaction is ridiculous, especially from a long-timer. I mean fuck, I don't like to hang out at some of the camps my very best friends go to; I would never try to make an argument that "interaction" has to fit one mold.

Which bias is that? (I've never even been to a dance camp FYI, if thats what you might think)

And, I never said that interactive had to be anything... in fact, i didnt even mention a bar or a coffee shop or any other possible forms of interaction, for that matter.

It seems pretty obvious to me based upon first hand experience, and posts here in this forum and elsewhere on the internet (youtube, tribe, flickr) that a camp like Opulent Temple had more shit going on in terms of interactive community experience for burning man participants on whole than Hushville..

I guess you might have some evidence to prove this otherwise.... (or an argument debating on what interactivity actually is)


No where did i make the implication that everyone should enjoy the same things at burning man...



here is what I originally stated:

in the past hushville (a village) has had more space than the smaller by size theme camps that brought in many thousands of people

compare the interactivity (read: reason for population of BRC to visit) of hushville village (and its myriad sub theme camps) to say.... one of the smaller dance related theme camps..

maybe the line between a village and theme camp is blurry.. i am sure it is......... but when one theme camp with a shitload of sound can outinteract an entire village.. somethin is wrong, yo.


hushville needs to step it up whether they are a theme camp or a village.

Sir, I think you may be reading between the lines.


I didnt put extra space between them so you could fill it in... Just so its easier for people to read what I said.

[ConnieH]

I think I understand what Lemur is trying to point out - regardless of the "theme" of the camp, some smaller camps bring in more participants than Hushville. We did it with a megaphone and a sales pitch - there was a sea of bikes at our camp nearly every day, the bar was packed, people were bowling and riding the Bull - hundreds if not thousands over the course of the week. It's wasn't just because we were a bar, lots of people didn't come in for a drink, they came in to socialize. We drew them in, invited them in, heckled them in sometimes - and made them feel welcome and at home. Many came back every day, their new favorite place to hang out. I never felt this at Hushville, even though I had made friends with several Hushers, I never felt invited into their camps - maybe some of that was my own shyness, but others felt it too.

[Zhust]

I camped across from Hushville in 2010 and found one of the fronting camps to be nice to hang out at, and a few years prior, I recall being treated very rudely by someone in Hushville. Overall my impression of Hushville in total is "that place where people camp to scold others for being too loud." That impression tends to rub me the wrong way concerning the 10 Principles and how I think Burning Man "is". I do understand that humans are unable to "not hear", what with hearing being non-directional and not able to be shut off like sight with eyelids. But I also know my own journey that I needed to understand being loud and attention-getting before finding my own voice and being able to stop being such a prima donna. Others do the same and do so more grandly or more subtly.

So in a way, I see Hushville as a group who likes to impose on others in a manner not compatible with TWITBI (The Way I Think Burning Man Is). That philosophy rubs me the wrong way like the way those "free hugs" men go around claiming to offer free hugs but (according to the undisclosed fine print) only to topless young women — the level of radical other-exclusion is deeply sad to me. On the other hand, the people that go around caging animals (furries and the like) seems to do it with enough consideration that I don't see it as unfair.

Another way to put it is that the primary modus operandi of Hushville is to be quiet at certain times, but right behind that is to suppress others their noisy self-expression. It would be like "Camp We-Hate-Acoustic-Music" versus "Camp Amplified-Music".

To try and reign it in and sum up, I think Hushville would do better to be given plenty of space away from everyone else. I suspect that having an affirming central focus (e.g. "pro alternative energy", "pro kids") would make them more amenable to being place preferentially.

[Dr. Pyro]

I find myself in complete agreement.

[mudpuppy000]

I think I understand what Lemur is trying to point out - regardless of the "theme" of the camp, some smaller camps bring in more participants than Hushville. We did it with a megaphone and a sales pitch - there was a sea of bikes at our camp nearly every day, the bar was packed, people were bowling and riding the Bull - hundreds if not thousands over the course of the week. It's wasn't just because we were a bar, lots of people didn't come in for a drink, they came in to socialize. We drew them in, invited them in, heckled them in sometimes - and made them feel welcome and at home. Many came back every day, their new favorite place to hang out. I never felt this at Hushville, even though I had made friends with several Hushers, I never felt invited into their camps - maybe some of that was my own shyness, but others felt it too.

I don't think megaphones, packed bars, and bowling alleys would go over too well in a place called HUSHville.

[some seeing eye]

Hushville could:
Become the older peeps disabled camp, needing to be close in to Mobility Camp
Mount major open playa highly interactive installations
Host lectures on a theme like Entheon
Sell itself as a sound buffer to adjacent camps and be placed at F.

Personally, I think BM should create a non-amplified sound placed camp zone which would satisfy the last. And it's hard to argue that Hushville, as is, needs prime placement inner and central. But hey, it's your camp!

A virgin camp btw is a bad idea. Negative placement points.

[theCryptofishist]

Hushville could:
Become the older peeps disabled camp, needing to be close in to Mobility Camp

Um, no. If chairs, or golf carts need to be charged gennies are going to have to permitted as a back-up power source at least.
And some of the disabled don't feel much of a need to be near center camp/brcmobility.
So, um, thanks for putting me in a box. It makes me feel so, normatived...

[some seeing eye]

Crypto, I hear you. The disabled community, or whatever anyone's preferred term is, is diverse and defies categorization. For many people, BM is a life changing experience. No need to deny that to anyone.

BM is aging. The Mobility Camp needs to serve more than can fit in a center ring camp. A central mobility overflow camp has great value in the BM scheme of things, though there is no one size or placement that fits all.

Wish HV best in figuring their future, but not my camp.

[VultureChow]

Hushville could:
Become the older peeps disabled camp, needing to be close in to Mobility Camp
Mount major open playa highly interactive installations
Host lectures on a theme like Entheon
Sell itself as a sound buffer to adjacent camps and be placed at F.

Personally, I think BM should create a non-amplified sound placed camp zone which would satisfy the last. And it's hard to argue that Hushville, as is, needs prime placement inner and central. But hey, it's your camp!

A virgin camp btw is a bad idea. Negative placement points.

I think a Burning Boot Camp, or Burning University would be a good concept for virgins. Say a dozen or so vets taking on two or three dozen virgins to teach them the ropes. It would definitely go towards addressing the issue that some seem to have with a changing or deteriorating culture at BM. I know lots of camps take on a few birgins, but going with the theme, you could have public classes on lnt, evap ponds, etc.

[some seeing eye]

+1 VultureChow - good insight.

[theCryptofishist]

Perhaps. But as VultureChow is not yet a veteran, it's not a "do-acracy" suggestion. And for this to work on a big scale, it would entail 1000s of people.
And I'm not sure how that would differ from any other veteran/birgin combo in a camp either.

[VultureChow]

Perhaps. But as VultureChow is not yet a veteran, it's not a "do-acracy" suggestion. And for this to work on a big scale, it would entail 1000s of people.
And I'm not sure how that would differ from any other veteran/birgin combo in a camp either.

I wasn't exactly suggesting that every virgin needs to stay in the camp, rather that there might be a group of veterans who might dedicate themselves specifically to the teaching of the youngsters.I'm aware there already exists in many camps an informal version of this. As a virgin though, I like the idea of a camp where I would be expected and encouraged to ask obvious questions. And I think it would be valuable to offer burning specific classes on anything from swamp cooler construction to "How to approach a bar(loved that thread)."

Maybe in a couple of years when I'm qualified, I'll start it myself.

[AntiM]

Hushville could:
Become the older peeps disabled camp, needing to be close in to Mobility Camp
Mount major open playa highly interactive installations
Host lectures on a theme like Entheon
Sell itself as a sound buffer to adjacent camps and be placed at F.

Personally, I think BM should create a non-amplified sound placed camp zone which would satisfy the last. And it's hard to argue that Hushville, as is, needs prime placement inner and central. But hey, it's your camp!

A virgin camp btw is a bad idea. Negative placement points.

I think a Burning Boot Camp, or Burning University would be a good concept for virgins. Say a dozen or so vets taking on two or three dozen virgins to teach them the ropes. It would definitely go towards addressing the issue that some seem to have with a changing or deteriorating culture at BM. I know lots of camps take on a few birgins, but going with the theme, you could have public classes on lnt, evap ponds, etc.

This virgin mentoring and instruction is one of the HV goals we discussed on the playa. Tours of our non-combustion camps would be offered, just as AEZ does instruction of alternative energy.

Hushville is already placed back along D to F, splitting a village block with another village of the same size... but Husville always has at least twice as many individual camps, we're always elbows to assholes in there. Not like we're getting any better placement than any other village. The three street sides are always open camping. We don't shush people, but we do try to negotiate, just as the Survival Guide suggests neighbors do ... hey, can you turn the speakers inward to your camp? Nothing more or less than other participants do.

We have at least one member camp which does do large interactive open playa art. Our town round hosts parties Such as the Librarian Cocktails, and the Silent Rave.

We're trying to do more, but there are so many assumptions out there.