Exp. RVers: Suggestions for House rules for renting an RV

[Cheyenne]

This is quite possibly one of the bestest threads for prep I have read...

I have paid the deposit for an RV in LA and there are 5 of us using it. We are all close friends but only 2 are veteran burners - I have already drawn up a list of house rules and an absolute NO use of the on board shower whilst we are on playa. No pooing in the toilet either... we are going to be right in the thick of it and I suspect we probably won't see a dumper truck for cleaning tanks at all during the week.

I am going to be laminating a rules list and I am going to make sure that it isn't used as a meeting place - for sleeping and dust storm retreat only!!

The other couple coming with us have their own custom converted camper - but they have a habit of holding parties in it when we are at festivals, free parties and the like and I'm absolutely going to HAVE to stop them from doing it ... but lucky that one of them is a vet burner anyway and he'll probably be off at Barbie Death Camp quite a bit as he said that was one of his favourite camps...

I am going to have to ask someone else to put down the security/cleaning deposit when we pick the van up as I've put up the risk of the $350 deposit ...

Thanks for the tips... looks like there are going to be a few of us from accross the pond!!

[Colonel Monk]

6-7 people is insane. That works only with Mom/Dad and 4-5 children.....

I brought my RV last year for the first time - I also live in it in the default world. I was supposed to be volunteering and needed to be comfortable - didn't do it in the end because of a knee injury....

It's 32 feet long, and if you believe the stats it can sleep 7.

No effing way can it support 7. Maybe 4, and there wouldn't be room for everyone's stuff.

As it was, I brought a friend and his first burn. I did lay out some ground rules ahead of time, but they didn't take. As one described, nothing was kept in the locations we agreed to, and so there wasn't a place to sit, tripping over shoes, whateverthefuck - even his beer cooler

I said "what?, you want to keep the cooler inside? why?"

He said "well I don't want my beer to get all nasty"

Being without his help I'd have never made it to BRC let alone had my MV there and working, let alone the $800 in gas round trip, I relented but told him that by the end of the week every orifice in his body would have dust in it, and that 3 days from now you won't care that there's dust in your food let alone your beer.

By the end of the week I was ready to kill (injure) him. No problems with shower/crapper/water use, but sharing my small home and tripping over his stuff all week, the cooler being in my way, couldn't find anything without a protracted search, the dirty dishes, and the broken door to the RV which was repeatedly left open to bang in the wind I had had enough.

We are still friends but it was the first year of 6 that I ever had to share space with anyone.

I will probably let him stay again this year but there will be rules and they will be followed.

If you want to have 6+ people in a single RV I recommend you wash dishes outside and evaporate your water. Save the water in the tanks for brushing teeth, preparing food, and washing your face/hands.

If you want a shower you're gonna need to do it outside and have a trailer with more water.

My RV has 75 gallons of fresh water which lasts me 2 weeks. I have 60 gallon grey water and 40 gallons black, Also need to be dumped every two weeks.

I don't shower in the RV unless I have a hookup. So 37 gallons a week is 1 person, brushing teeth, washing face, flushing toilet, and doing dishes and food prep.

That requires conservation. Not extreme conservation though - I could probably stretch it to another week.

So you see, there's absolutely no way you could do 6 people with showers in one RV. Just sayin.

Monk

I realize this is from last year but I'm sure there are many people planning the same thing....

[Savannah]

*bump*

[Dr Helix]

*bump*

Based on the info in this thread "bump" will be a godsend to so many. Thank you Savannah!

[Savannah]

Oo, glad!

The funny part is . . . I've never stayed in an RV. But I can see how its unique conveniences requires a lot more thought (exponentially with each added person) than anyone could begin to anticipate--at least the first time.

[Dr Helix]

Oo, glad!

The funny part is . . . I've never stayed in an RV. But I can see how its unique conveniences requires a lot more thought (exponentially with each added person) than anyone could begin to anticipate--at least the first time.

I trailer, and its just my girlfriend (soon to be wife but that's another thread) and we have many rules in reagrds to living in it. We do use the toilet, but are careful, and we do use the shower but with minimal water useage as descibed above. There is no better feeling than coming in at 4 or 5 in the morning covered in sweat and dust knowing a shower will make you clean before you slide between the sheets. We carry extra water and we get pumped out during the week. It gets really crowded with our stuff and we take great pains to clean and put away. So I can't even imagine what the chaos woud be with 6 or more in an RV. Good luck there!

[Savannah]

I don't need luck . . . (but I'll take it, in general). I'm continuing my RV-free streak. I just wanted other people to have it.

[TomServo]

Tents. Tarps and canopies are ALOT cheaper!

[Dr Helix]

Tents. Tarps and canopies are ALOT cheaper!

Beater burner trailer $700.00. Shower and toilet.....priceless.

[illy dilly]

Tents. Tarps and canopies are ALOT cheaper!

Beater burner trailer $700.00. Shower and toilet.....priceless.

Even if only for the mid night pee!

Everything Doc says is very true.
2010 was our first year in an RV. We had lots of trouble, but I only had a month to get her running right. In our 34' packing 4 people (1 couple, and 2 single folks) in there was tight.

Read and reread Docs tips for successful RV life at the Burn.

[TomServo]

Even if only for the mid night pee!

Empty water jug....+ lady J, if you're female. RVs are a pain in the ass, and not much more comfortable.

[illy dilly]

Even if only for the mid night pee!

Empty water jug....+ lady J, if you're female. RVs are a pain in the ass, and not much more comfortable.

They can be a pain in the ass.
But owning an RV is a hobby of its own. You don't own an RV just cause you want someplace to sleep when you go to Burning Man. I have found this out the hard way. But I find that owning a vintage RV is a lot of fun.... and pain in the ass.

If you just want some place to sleep I think a small camper would be the way to go. With a small black water tank for the mid night pee.

[dragonpilot]

Two best days in a man's life: the day he buys his first RV, and the day he sells it!

BTW, if anyone would like a copy of my RV House Rulz, PM.

[TomServo]

Even if only for the mid night pee!

Empty water jug....+ lady J, if you're female. RVs are a pain in the ass, and not much more comfortable.

They can be a pain in the ass.
But owning an RV is a hobby of its own. You don't own an RV just cause you want someplace to sleep when you go to Burning Man. I have found this out the hard way. But I find that owning a vintage RV is a lot of fun.... and pain in the ass.

If you just want some place to sleep I think a small camper would be the way to go. With a small black water tank for the mid night pee.

I understand the ownership part, but renting an RV....a lot of people will be getting in waaay over their heads. Having said that, if your coming in from the pacific north west, in an RV...stop by the Eagle's Nest, In Tionesta,CA. WeDeliver would be happy to show you the ins and outs of an RV or camper trailer! Plus, youd be much closer to BM.

[essjay]

I second the previous comments about capacity. No matter if they are 24-foot or 40-foot, they sleep about 4 comfortably. Over 4 people, and some will be sleeping in places that aren't as comfortable as others. (That said, I am with 5 other people this year (all experienced burners) so, it can be done.)

Strictly police the kitchen sink. You will lose a lot of clean water and gain a lot of grey water if you use the sink like you do at home. Instead, keep two spray bottles in the kitchen sink at all times. One filled with soapy water, and one filled with clean water. Use those and a sponge/scrub brush to wash your dishes. It works very well and saves a ton of water.

It gets crowded in the RV when everyone is getting ready to go out. To help with this, we set up two tents to use as staging areas. One tent is a tall walk-in, where most of the clothes are kept. The girls in our camp love using this to get ready because they can sit down and do make-up without the rest of the RV climbing over them to get at stuff.

Bring coolers with dry ice (there is another thread on this). The RV fridges/freezers are gas powered and pretty much suck. You will not be able to count on them for food for six people. It takes them a very long time to turn something from warm to cold, so you are better off putting things in there that are already cold.

The interior lights aren't very nice if you are hanging out inside at night. Bring christmas lights or some other low-light set-up to ease the eyes.

Make sure the generator works before you leave the rental place and also have a decent understanding of how the generator, engine battery and house batteries work as a system. Chances are, something will trip up that system during the week (usually because an inexperienced user did something wrong) and it helps to know how to run through the system and figure out likely fixes. The RV experience will not be as nice if you lose your genny on the playa.

[DesmondDoomsday]

tl;dr so sorry if I'm repeating advice:

I took an RV one year and probably won't again for many reasons I won't go into here. But a word of caution-- we thought we'd stack a bunch of gear in the shower. Granted this thing was pretty old, but the weight or (perhaps the shape of a box?) apparently cracked the shower floor, resulting in extra $$$ since we had to pay for a new RV shower. And I didn't even consider the stuff in there to be heavy. So if you pack anything in the shower, pack lightly and carefully!

Also, it's easy for people to lose their common sense if they are hot/exhausted/high. Someone needs to keep watch that a senseless companion or their guest doesn't drain your water or your battery.

Also, most people get charged a fortune for failing to clean it thoroughly. If you guys aren't whizzes at cleaning, find some pros to clean it for you. And protip: one thing the RV company looks for is they go around and stomp carpet and pound cushions and fabrics. So now you know and you can perform their test before they do it.

[essjay]

DesmondD's post reminded me of one more tip: Go to Lowes/HomeDepot and get a roll of contractor's mask. It comes in a roll about 30" wide and looks like heavy-duty saranwrap - only much, much thicker and a very light adhesive on one side. Use this mask to cover the floor and carpet. You can also wrap the furniture and cushions and then lay old sheets over it for comfort. This stuff is great and will save you hours on clean up. When you get home, sweep and vacuum and pull the mask off - floor looks just like it did when you got it and no dust in the cushions.

here is an example: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202020271/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

[gaminwench]

You can also use old beater towels, taped down, for dust control...

Also, if your RV has slideouts, check the floor around the slideouts for openings; stuff towels/pillows in the openings to keep the dust out...

NO SHOES in the RV!!!
Beverage coolers outside!

[AntiM]

Testing.

[Cheyenne]

I am looking at covering the carpets on the inside - i'd prefer an RV with laminate floor or something to be honest. Dragon Pilot kindly sent me the guidelines he makes EVERY camper adhere to - and after reading some of this stuff, I think I might say that the three people that are currently sharing our 28footer would be enough....

I'm going to be a bit of a nazi about the water/toilet use - our camp fees include 15 gallons of water per person brought in on the truck separately anyway - but I'll be making sure the fresh water tank is FULL by playa entry and the useage will be closely monitored through the week as we aren't leaving until the tuesday morning

Claire

[essjay]

I am looking at covering the carpets on the inside - i'd prefer an RV with laminate floor or something to be honest. Dragon Pilot kindly sent me the guidelines he makes EVERY camper adhere to - and after reading some of this stuff, I think I might say that the three people that are currently sharing our 28footer would be enough....

I'm going to be a bit of a nazi about the water/toilet use - our camp fees include 15 gallons of water per person brought in on the truck separately anyway - but I'll be making sure the fresh water tank is FULL by playa entry and the useage will be closely monitored through the week as we aren't leaving until the tuesday morning

Claire

In the past, our rental RVs have had a combination of laminate and carpet (laminate near the "kitchen" and carpet elsewhere). I recommend using that contractor's mask on everything - even the laminate. A week on the playa is rough on the RV - even the laminate should be covered to make clean up easier.

As for your water tanks - we have never had a problem with fresh water because we bring in jug water as well for drinking/cooking. The real problem is the grey water. If you are going to be a nazi (somebody needs to be) - you should pay as much attention to what is going in the drain as to what is going out of the faucet. If you are hoping to drain your grey water on the playa (not as easy as you might think), I would heed earlier advice and schedule it ahead of time and make sure the truck can get to your RV. Grey water starts to stink pretty bad by the end of the week if it is backing up on you.

[Cheyenne]

Thanks,

We have external cooking facilities at camp, so I am saying that there is no cooking in the van, there is really no need when there is much more space in the camp kitchen.

The reason for renting one of these things is that my partner absolutely does not sleep in tents - no matter how tired he is, and no matter how many sleeping pills he might down.... he's strange like that... I understand it is a MASSIVE expense and I have been having quiet panic attacks about the stuff that could go wrong.

i'm going to do a risk assessment when I pick the thing up and make sure that everyone is clear as to what is out of bounds ... people might think - 'how come we payed this much for a glorified tent?' - but we have less than 24 hours to clean the thing before taking it back to the company depot. I think we may do one of those external cleans at a truck stop en-route back to LA and I will be putting any unnecesary cushions away in the wardrobe before even getting to the event....

I think we will be ok- it'll just mean a spot of 'clean as you go' through the week

[essjay]

Thanks,

We have external cooking facilities at camp, so I am saying that there is no cooking in the van, there is really no need when there is much more space in the camp kitchen.

The reason for renting one of these things is that my partner absolutely does not sleep in tents - no matter how tired he is, and no matter how many sleeping pills he might down.... he's strange like that... I understand it is a MASSIVE expense and I have been having quiet panic attacks about the stuff that could go wrong.

i'm going to do a risk assessment when I pick the thing up and make sure that everyone is clear as to what is out of bounds ... people might think - 'how come we payed this much for a glorified tent?' - but we have less than 24 hours to clean the thing before taking it back to the company depot. I think we may do one of those external cleans at a truck stop en-route back to LA and I will be putting any unnecesary cushions away in the wardrobe before even getting to the event....

I think we will be ok- it'll just mean a spot of 'clean as you go' through the week

When thay are able to sleep in air-conditioned comfort past noon - they won't call it a glorified tent!!! Just ask them to look around at your tent-camping neighbors who are up before 9. Tape tinfoil to the outside of your windows to keep it dark inside so you can sleep through the morning. Use blue painter's tape - it won't mess up the paint

Also, be prepared for the dust and try not to worry about the clean-up while you are out there. That's why the contractor's mask is so nice. Be prepared to see the entire RV covered in dust within the first 4 hours of hitting the playa . . . that is just how it is.

[supermira]

Be honest with yourself about your expectations, and understand the magnitude of your responsibility :: are you really excited to share BM with 6 SIX! newbies on your clock or are you just trying to save a buck?? The best advice I can give is if you are taking the leap of faith toting 6 wide-eyed cheapskates (who no one knows how they will respond the playa, the elements, and their cramped dusty living quarters) to save money, you will pay the difference in miserable moments!!! not worth it!

Talking Points ::

******The person with the credit card down will desperately play house mom all week while everyone else won't give a rats-ass about the house rules (which are out the window by day 3 anyway) and no, telling folks they can only be in the RV to sleep doesnt work and isnt fair, people want to do what they want and thats their base camp that they paid for, and YES they will run the AC when they are in there by themself, on full blast, and leave it on when they leave! (plus leave the door not latched so it blows open and coats the inside with dust, yay!)
******7 different people will have 7 different ideas about how things should be done, and thats exactly how they will do things, their way, the best way *for them*.
******7 different people will have 7 different space, sleeping, emotional, cooking, cleaning, and grooming/hygiene needs....NOW shake that up with 7 different schedules, 7 different objectives, 7 people's clothes, crap, shoes & filthy socks, food & drinks & cups & bottles & dirty dishes, & towels EVERYWHERE!; plus tons of dust, dirt, mud, 100 degree heat, an emotional breakdown, a bad trip, relationship trouble, tears, sunburn, stomach ailments, uninvited guests, unexpected sexcapades, bad attitudes, and did I mention 7 people's dusty CRAP EVERYWHERE!!! Would this be a good time to remind that all 7 of you are in a 250 sq ft box with about 7 feet of floor/standing space! (even less if the beds are rolled out)
******An RV for 7 holds 4 adult size peeps (2 very cozy doubles that you share with your sandy sweaty bed buddy) and a couple bullshit beds for small people or kids. 3 people will be miserable and pissed they are paying the same as everyone else, so either rotate the sleeping arrangements or pro-rate the crappy beds. The bullshit beds also get stepped on, sat on, spilled on, screwed on, and are the only flat surface that everyone else's shit inevitably ends up on.
******Everyone will completely underestimate their water usage, generator usage, AC time, and general jackassery.
******Everyone will completely overestimate the amount they have contributed to the whole.... and with that many people there will be a few that will do exactly JACK SHIT, just because they can. The harsh reality is these 6 people don't have your best interest in mind, they just want to burn cheap like you do. If you want something done, you'll probably have to do it yourself.
******Don't kid yourself that food / drinks / liquor / cooking/ RV chores / maintenance & monitoring will ever be split up remotely fairly. Laminating the rules won't help!


You still want to do it??? Still got your heart set on the RV thing?

******I would recommend 4 people MAX, they get to bring ONE bin and one small bag each, (bins can be stored underneath the RV, or stacked in the shower stall (since it wont be used, no no) and pulled out when needed)
******All people must all be paid in advance (like now) OR 2 or 3 will bail or change their mind last minute and screw the rest of you, guaranteed. and if you give the flakes their money back YOU will end up paying their portion yourself so don't do it.(don't forget to add in double the deposit, fuel (plan on getting 10 mpg), gas for generator, ice, water pump money for the playa, last dump on return, trash disposal, RV wash money, cleaning supplies, WATER, and general stuff like trash bags, paper towels, toilet tissue etc etc.)
******If they don't pay the deposit, they won't even try to keep things tidy or help clean at the end, and remember there will be unexpected expenses on the way too, collect an incidentals $$$ pool before you leave, at least $200 - this can be split up at the end if not used. Make sure one OTHER person has a credit card that has space on it, in case of breakdown, repairs, emergencies, motel etc. All this responsibility doesn't need to fall on you! Have you thought about Liability? It sound corny, but a travel waiver is an excellent idea!
******You personally, with your own eyes, need to see every persons ticket in hand when they board. When everyone is on, have them all hold them up at the same time (take a photo). Just one person's oversight will cost everyone else lots of lost hours (and gas money and frustration) to turn around and pick it up.
******Consider yourself extremely lucky if all are present and ready to go at the designated time without demand and drama. Same thing for exodus. What's your plan if someone is no where to be found when its time to leave the playa? What if someone wants or really needs to leave early? (chances are good with 6 newbies!) Is the driver going to be sober? Is there a back-up driver to take over when the driver falls asleep? How are you going to fit 7 bikes, 7 coolers, 7 peoples groceries & WATER, 7 bins & 7 bags, and 7 butts in this thing when traveling?
******Finally, I would have at least other BM veteran in your mix, as it will become burdensome for you to hold everything/everyone together. There will be plenty of opportunities later for successful RV sharing when its with FRIENDS who have similar expectations and experience.....6 newbies have no idea what they are getting into, and it will be up to you to manage each and every one of them, like it or not.
No matter how great or responsible someone is in the default world, and how *burnery* they seem, and how much YOU *just know* they will blossom on-playa, people are unpredictable .... things come to the surface one might not ever expect (both good and bad). But, you could very well end up with an overdose, an attempted suicide, prissy temper tantrums, tears, and several interpersonal knock-down drag-out fights (one was over a member of our group going out on the street offering passers-by $40 if they would do his dishes shift...uh, wrong!), top that off with a walk-out and that just wrapped up my LAST group RV trip!! (can you believe walk-out bartered a boobie pic to the water tank driver to take him into the city....um'quay) True Story BTW!! Then coming home, one of the remaining knuckle-heads left off the cooler spout so we had a 3 inch mudslide going on by the time we got to Reno. It was awesome!

Personally, I think the situation as presented it is a bad bad idea, only you can decide if its right for you to be Miss RV monitor/mentor in exchange for a few bucks.
For me, NEVER AGAIN! My burn is for ME and the people I love (and in a peaceful hexayurt, which blows the RV out of the water, btw!) Good Luck!

[Eric]

******I would recommend 4 people MAX

I cannot agree with this part enough. DO NOT try to put more than 4 people in an RV unless you have access to Will Smith's two story monster. People will be out to kill (maim murder) by the end of the week if there are more in there, especially if they're virgins, and all you need is two people with clashing personalities to ruin the week for everyone.

I disagree on how much stuff those 4 are allowed to bring- I bring a huge locker full of clothes (goes under a bench), small cases with medical, blinkies etc (we divide up the cabinets- the two people up front each get two personal ones, the people with the bed get the ones in the bedroom area). I bring 6 suits in bags, one of our other RV-mates brings a huge pile of fancy dresses. It's not how much each person brings, it's how you arrange the stuff. We also bring food, water, 4 bikes, huge ass speakers & bass, booze... a lot can be crammed in when theres only four.

[DustHand]

I would also agree 4 to an rv is a max. However, 4 of us were all first timers in 2010 and it all worked out swimmingly. I'm a bit OCD as were others. We had a great time with very few issues. Sounds like someone vetted their campmates poorly at some point in the past. Know thy rv-mates.

[Eric]

We actually "vet" pretty carefully- all the problem campers we've had with us are friends in real life (luckily they still are...), they just turned out to be very different on-playa then they were in the city. Sometimes you don't know until you're there- who knew that super "type A" personalities would turn into irresponsible party boys once the dust hit their skin?. That was also the year we tried to save money by having 6 people in the RV. Again, you learn from your mistakes- never again!

[FIGJAM]

[Cheyenne]

Actually,

I think we may just stick with the three of us that are currently booked to stay in the RV - I was thinking this anyway - its only an extra $180 per person to do it that way... so three is probably how its going to stay

I booked and paid the deposit for the RV in October 2010 to get the good deal on it, so there is no backing out. I think I might stick to it this way...

Thanks for your help everyone, I know we will stick to the rules... I've done it previously with a bunch of mates in Chile, so we should have few issues...

Claire

[Canoe]

Stick with the three.
Make sure they understand about limited RV resources. Like wash dishes with water in sink, not running water; and shower by wet yourself down, water off, then soap, then rinse.

Cheap LED flashlights and lanterns don't use the RV battery.

To cut down on A/C generator use, check out "RV Windows"
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42688

Tape all cracks to keep dust out. (this doesn't mean the main door, which you'll be using)

Advice I got from here somewhere last year: tape shut all cabinets you won't be using during BM, including the one with your travel clothes for after BM), kitchen shelf covering on the tables, cheap sheets from wallyword on the cushions.

I'd add: cleanup playa dirt on floor with vinegar/water then wipe with swiffer pads; swiffer duster made for a perfect last pass of all surfaces to remove all trace of playa dust.
RV place was amazed at the condition. Full deposit back.

Disclosure: RV clerk wanted to go to BM, but couldn't. I brought him back a token souvenir I was gifted.