Billionaire Camps

[DVD Burner]

So like.....if I came to the playa with some super rich people......would you all disown me?

[sktELEMENT]

What can you do about it? I know!

When you get back from the best week of the year, go home to your friends, family, co-workers, aquaintences, etc. and tell them this:

"BURNING MAN SUCKS, DON'T GO!"

[Captain Goddammit]

So like.....if I came to the playa with some super rich people......would you all disown me?

As if you'd ever come anyway...

[Bitterman]

[quote="d6"]
even better than "Curmudgeon Camp" or "Bitterman Burners"

Hey I heard that you robot bastard!

[Simon of the Playa]

Godammit, if you had that kind of green, you'd just buy a bigger boat, and carry more people around the playa.....you're a sailor at heart, but not a pirate.

I dont like to use the word "Communism", it brings up all kinds of bad cold war memories i prefer to suppress, but if we as a nation do not address the ever widening gap between the haves and the have-nots, the haves will soon find themselves hanging from meathooks, and the uneducated, untrained, and unprofessional will rule by force of numbers.

do we really want the lowest common denominator running the show?

i'm for enlightened capitalism, and the notion that those who have are obligated morally and ethically to give back to the community as to PRESERVE the community, as well as their own status.


No one will go to Mr. Burns Funeral, No one will shed a tear, or remember when Donald Trump Dies, in fact, i'll probably chuckle, and wish him a slow ride to hell.

we need a PROGRESSIVE income tax system, like the one we had before that Bastard Reagan destroyed it, sending us into deficit with his trickle down economics.

trickle down is basically the rich peeing on the poor and calling it orange juice.

i for one wont stand by and see this great nation dissolve into chaos and ultimately, an electronic police state.

it breaks my heart, but if BM is any indication of the shape of things to come, then consider me an ex-pat, whose soul has been sucked dry, and only wants to sit quietly by in some foreign cafe watching as the world goes to shit.

now give ME another drink, dammit.

[Simon of the Playa]

oops.doubled up.

[lurker]

Can no one have fun without idiots screaming for class warfare?

So what if someone pours their own cash into setting up a mega-camp--doesn't everbody funnel their money into their experience?

And does no one understand demographics?

The base population of BRC is getting older, they've got more disposable income, they need a bit more comfort to be able to rest and party like they did on the beach.

Why does it always have to end in the hateful, spiteful, whines of class envy? Why does everyone who doesn't participate exactly like you not get it?

I think that you are the ones that don't get it--

It's not 'from each according to his means' on the playa--it's 'to each according to his dreams'

[Simon of the Playa]

Lurker, i appreciate your thoughts, i too disdain class warfare, and believe the horatio alger myth as well.

it is the callousness of some that irks me. It is the disregard for the needy and the poor that are falling thru an ever holier safety net.

The health of a nation depends on the health of it's citizens, we need to look out for each other, as it is ultimately looking out for ourselves as well.

this morning, i re-watched "Being There" a movie with Peter Sellars that always seems to give me some sense of what is and what is not.

the final line, as he walks towards the Vanderbilt Mansion, and he sticks his umbrella in the water is "Life, is but a state of Mind"....

Chance, or Chauncey Gardner as he's known, is my hero.

i may have told this story before, but i will repeat it, bear with me.

One day, as i was delivering some furniture in the "ghetto" (yes, rochester, home of Frederick Douglass, is disgustingly segregated) i saw a young boy, maybe 4 years old, squatting down by the side of the road, feeding a squirrel, eyes bright, smiling, in the moment, and truly happy.

he wasnt aware of the horror that surrounded him. He wasnt put upon by the poverty and depression that was his world. he was happy to be there, feeding the little squirrel, and my god, i wished i was him.


his state of mind was the most beautiful i had seen in a while. pure innocence in a sea of debasement.

Burning Man is a state of mind as well. The Community takes a piece of nothingness, and makes everything out of it. To share, to care, to love.

The creativity that exists in the void is limitless.

the freedom that the nothingness provides is what is priceless, and must be preserved at all costs.

The default world is encroaching fast upon our utopia, and just like that corny movie, "the never ending story", i feel the darkness approaching, and am scared for all.


call me a pessimist, or just another depressed burner dealing with the shit that we call "normalcy", but i think that you can feel it too, and i pray that we dont get swallowed whole by the darkness that grows every day on the horizon.


i really should go back on my prozac....this is all a bit too much.

for the first time in a long time, i am scared, and i dont know what to do.

[d6]

semi-sorry for the thread drift, but i feel lurker is opening up a "debate"

"Can no one have fun without idiots screaming for class warfare?"

idiots dont scream about class warfare;
they sit glued to their electronic masters and do nothing, thinking everything is "fine"
my opinion is that we as a country were indeed (permanantly?)
fucked by reaganomics.

"So what if someone pours their own cash into setting up a mega-camp--doesn't everbody funnel their money into their experience? "

most of us, yes. certain trustafarians dont count, as they tend to not appreciate anything, and bore us all with the entitlement rants.
isnt there an inherant difference between those that work on a brc project they believe in versus those that are hired?

"And does no one understand demographics?"
"The base population of BRC is getting older, they've got more disposable income, they need a bit more comfort to be able to rest and party like they did on the beach. "

yeah, and the fact is the american dream of a middle-class is being buttfucked by the largest transfer of wealth on earth.ever. alot of people i speak w/ cant afford the luxury of black rock city, mostly college degree holding couples working 3-4 jobs between them.
If you are indeed in a postion to have "disposable income" (isnt it all?), i'm not going to say how you should spend it,
its yours - do what you want - creature comfort away!
but please dont treat the beach staff, i mean brc working population, as your minions. a "thank you" never hurt anyone.
oh, and brc is not the beach, even though it resembled one in 08.

"Why does it always have to end in the hateful, spiteful, whines of class envy?"

it'll only end for us when we die, so
thats right, we're all envious of something, especially in the "me first/its all about me" capital of the u.s.a.
i'm envious of parents whose kids dont have medical trauma.
and of art that makesme whine, and briefly hate the fact that whoever made it is much more talented than i,
and of the brc neighbor that never leaves the AC-super bus,
i envy the sheer magnitude of people who actually try.
i did manage to leave spite behind, it may still be in my arse......

"hy does everyone who doesn't participate exactly like you not get it?"

it seems like this thread was only pointed at the super-rich "i'm not getting my hands dirty because i dont have to = i'm better than you" types
but then again, you and i certainly did not have the same experience, so we'll never be able to "get it" - its a technicality!


"I think that you are the ones that don't get it-- "

absolutely. i wake up everyday aware of the fact that i probably will never get it.
i'd also like to offer up that i feel that those who hide behind a playa name / alter ego and only do things in brc that they dont have the proverbial balls to do in every day life " dont get it"
as for my moniker, it came to me as a piece of mislabeled mail, and stuck
well before i even considered going to that hippie artard fuckfest in the nv
desert, i mean spring break '96! whoooooooooo!


"It's not 'from each according to his means' on the playa--it's 'to each according to his dreams'"

I agree almost completely, aside from that should be an ideal for living everyday / everywhere, not just reserved for the playa.

and doesnt it suck if your dreams are crushed / removed by policy changes slanted back towards a very, very small demographic?

begin rant::::::::::::
greedy bastards exist in every country on earth, so i dont see the point in moving when we should just take care of our own country first.
brc is not a utopian retreat, although
alot of people use it as a working vacation to try and create some form of catharsis, even though you can get robbed (like i did on burn nite) or
you can drunk fuck on k in a super discotron in just about any city.
to imply there is no class-warfare in brc is ridiculous.
there has always been, and will always be, a small cross-section of brc class warfare:
people who pay other peope to build "their" art<djs,<self-righteous earth mother types<robot lovers<dirtyold men<hippies<temple mystics<road warrior extras<i just braided my hair and bought a utili-kilt<garage rockers<far-traveling folks who have manners and only want interactions of a non-sexual variety<you.

but the more plutocracy i see out in the desert, the more i want to watch "fox news" and liquify whats left of my brain, and possibly donate to the 700 club.........

whatever your priority as an individual to goto brc is, is just that!
an individual priority, and if it no longer remains a priority for those that have put much more of themselves into brc aside from a dollar amount, well i'm sad to see them go.

db,
sorry for the spelling, its difficult to type with my fat arse.

[Simon of the Playa]

yes, to each his own...the right for you to express yourself ends at the tip of my nose, and rugged individualism is a big part of who we are.

but doesnt it feel good to give a gift?

doesnt it make the cockles of your heart strings go PING when you do something for someone, and they really really needed whatever it was that was done for them....Call it Santa Syndrome, but i enjoy leaving presents on the door, ringing the bell, and running...

then from the shadows watching the person receive and cherish the gift that was not asked for, and was not even tagged with the name of the giver.

A good deed, well done....

pooh-pooh me all you want, but i will still believe in the power of unsolicited gifting until the day i die.


yeah, i'm a sentimental fool, so be it.

[dust devil]

Why does it always have to end in the hateful, spiteful, whines of class envy?

"It's the story of mankind: people telling other people what to do." -- overheard in the crowd at the Temple Burn.

Consider instead a further development of the Gift Economy through revival of pre-missionary customs of the Pacific peoples: potlach, moka, kula and other time-tested status games. Bury their asses in one-of-a-kind gifts of authenticity and astonishment. After the first couple thousand gifts they'll figure it out, and then the fun begins.

[Simon of the Playa]

i dont want to tell anyone what to do, it never works anyway.

i prefer to show by example, and if the person observing catches on, then great.

you can lead the horse to the playa, but you cannot make him participate, i agree, but maybe a little nudging on the reins isnt such a bad thing now and then.

it is amazing how collective shame works to alter someones behaviour, especially in a group situation.

so to those who close off their world to the playa, so they can wallow in the shallow shit known as excess consumerism and consumption, SHAME ON YOU!....you dont get it....you really dont, and that was NEVER the American Dream. Take your piggishness and selfish ways and stay in fucking Vegas or L.A. or whatever shithole suburb you climbed out of, dont bring that crap to BRC next year, unless you plan on sharing the hookers.

[d6]

simon! - your posts are inspired, you are indeed my current hero!

and as far as sharing the hookers is concerned, i knew i didnt throw away the 3lbs of hair gel, chinese toothpaste, and assorted expired circa 2002 thai condoms for a reason!

(these all found in a burner-move-out-rental scenario yesterday)

to you scenester types, i'll see your std, and raise you one communicable disease.........

d6,
scurvy bastard tomorrow, robot to follow

[lurker]

Consider instead a further development of the Gift Economy through revival of pre-missionary customs of the Pacific peoples: potlach, moka, kula and other time-tested status games. Bury their asses in one-of-a-kind gifts of authenticity and astonishment. After the first couple thousand gifts they'll figure it out, and then the fun begins

While I'd hate to see the gift economy devolve into the 'I've-got-more-than-you' status games you mention, I do see that the gift economy can be expanded--we all can do it. I gift all the time.

But more importantly, I think that as we move from an economy of scarcity to and economy of abundance I think the gift economy will become the norm--or some variant of it.

I tend to see a lot of BRC as a template for the future--a future that looms before us whether we like it or not.

And I think that a lot of the strife in the world today is fueled by those who don't like it and want to hold on to dying paradigms.

And I've gotta say, those who engage in pointless class envy are holding onto a dying paradigm.


d6, you're mad, you're angry. And you're holding on to something that's fueling it.

You get angry that people might pay people to do things--so? Don't we all? Didn't you pay to get in? Think any of that went to art grants? To building the Man? Doesn't getting paid HELP people?

And there's lots of people in BRC who can afford to do more than I can--do I envy them? Hell, no, I enjoy what they've done and hope my part of things delights people too(and I get stoked to do more).

Does it matter that someone could pay to get their idea on the playa?


Simon, your initial point about caring dor others is good, but I don't see how it fits into someone being able to pour their money and effort into creating the camp they want--however ostentatious it might be.

One does not preclude the other.

When you spoke of 'Being There', I was reminded that it was often used as a commentary on Reagan, referring to Chance, a lovable moron whose idiocy led to good things--though the 'good things' part tended to be left out. It probably poked me because of d6's reference to 'reaganomics'.

The innate truth of Chance's garden philosophy changed as it moved through society, providing to each person it touched a glimpse of that bliss the child in your anecdote moved within. Weirdly enough, that could be looked at as 'trickling down'.

And I would slightly disagree, the nothingness of the playa is but a blank canvas--what sprouts upon it comes from what is brought there, from the dreams of the people who participate in each shining incarnation of BRC. It would happen--and DOES happen wherever that spirit is loosed. BRC would be just as grand in whatever place it sprouted--because it shows what's in OUR hearts, our minds, our dreams.

The playa, much as we love it, is simply a place. BRC is the product of human ingenuity--and it is, in it's own weird way, a microcosm of what happened as we settled this great land--and it's annual disappearance is a visible example of the fact that we don't have to hurt the planet to use it.

Hopefully, it is the pioneer dream of the future.

The default world is encroaching fast upon our utopia, and just like that corny movie, "the never ending story", i feel the darkness approaching, and am scared for all

.

It is my sincere hope that the opposite is occuring--that BRC is encroaching on the default world--that this 'annual experiment' is showing people that humanity can peacefully exist with freedoms far greater than we already have.

We are the Shining City by the hills, we are the light that should point to the future. And we must guard that light and nurture it into a flame that will burn a man that the whole world can dance around.

[lurker]

Just an aside--I love New Orleans. Love it. Don't live there...yet.

One of the things I love is the lagniappe. A gift, a 'little something extra'. First time I was there it was so amazing to be in some tourist-trap bead and t-shirt haven--yahoo central--and have the proprietor just hand me something. A gift.

And hey, it's the same city that gifts like mad during Carnival--and you can get most of a fine Irish dinner tossed at you on St Patricks Day, too.

Lagniappe. Gift economy. Throws.

Just a thought...

[ZaphodBurner]

Lagniappe. Gift economy. Throws.

Just a thought...

I've had the same thought. My wife and I have boxes of beads...we go almost every year and try to give them away to people here in Oregon. Some of the "keepers" are the simple ones, like from my first time when I went into a convenience/liquor store uptown and the security guard pulled me aside like he was going to hassle me, and said "Boy, you ain't got any beads on you" and gave me some. Nowadays we end up giving them away to tourists as fast as we acquire them. (I only wish they were made locally instead of China.)

Lagniappe is not yet part of the Black Rock language, but it could happen. BRC is the embodiment of the concept, is it not?

-c

[lurker]

BRC is the embodiment of the concept, is it not?

Absolutely

[Cassidy]

So...did you meet them?

You've made me curious since you said it twice...
So, tell me... did YOU meet them?

[DVD Burner]

So like.....if I came to the playa with some super rich people......would you all disown me?

As if you'd ever come anyway...

you know I've already been several times.

[regynalonglank]

aw c'mon ya'll, it's all good. if people want to pony up for air condish condos on playa, run their refer truck all week long in a no-genny zone, pay people to cook for them and build their shit for them so they can pretend they are artists for a week, more power to 'em. it just makes it easier to find the clueless dorks so you can avoid them. and I'm sure there's lots of super cool folks who can only make it out there by working for someone else, so for every rich fool they are sponsoring ten fabulous doers and makers. do I like it? no. can I respect that? no. but radical inclusion would mean they get to play in the dustbox too, just like you.

the thing that gets me are the people who talk green and eco groovy and then go back to their air con playa digs...if that was me I'd be like yeah, my playa name is globe warmer, kiss my ass, I'm going back to my giant rv to fuck your girlfriend. but that's just me...

[Simon of the Playa]

Lurker, hats off to a well written well thought out treatise on our dusty city by the Gerlach. E-Playa constantly surprises me and i learn something new every day here, which is why i return.

we need the Medeci's...we need the Getty's and the Guggenheims, the artist as jester, as provider of content, without them we starve....without us they die of boredom.

a symbiotic relationship, and still to this day a strong aspect of the "art world".

without patrons, artists cannot dream the impossible dream because they just dont have the cash.

god bless the lavish, if they spend their money lovingly on art...

i hope they keep it here, on the playa, circulating around to provide the materials needed to continue and create art (and of course BURN IT) every year until we're feeble and gray, so that BRC is an example to the rest of the nation, and the world....


and honestly, we've all been thru the apocalypse several times on the playa, and we know how to have a good time in the middle of a swirling sea of shit, so give us ANY goodies and we'll find SOMETHING to do with them....art becomes a necessary FUNCTION, and not a hobby or a side show.

how many newbs have you seen creating masterpieces from clif bar wrappers and double stick tape, FORCED to do art, compelled to create..



it's fucking beautiful.



the negatives will always accompany the positives, and corporate burning man is here to stay, the question is, who is getting the reach around?










i'm waiting.....c'mon people.....i need COMMISSIONS!

[theCryptofishist]

and Dammit, Lanky One, after that I'd have to say that you can do her better than I can.

[gyre]

"Those who really know don't care."

Kim Fowley

[Simon of the Playa]

First Bernie Mac, Now Freddie Mac....

I'm afraid by next year this discussion thread may be a moot point.

[alt12]

Can no one have fun without idiots screaming for class warfare?

So what if someone pours their own cash into setting up a mega-camp--doesn't everbody funnel their money into their experience?

And does no one understand demographics?

The base population of BRC is getting older, they've got more disposable income, they need a bit more comfort to be able to rest and party like they did on the beach.

Why does it always have to end in the hateful, spiteful, whines of class envy? Why does everyone who doesn't participate exactly like you not get it?

I think that you are the ones that don't get it--

It's not 'from each according to his means' on the playa--it's 'to each according to his dreams'

sorry lurker but you're an idiot....did you not read the original post? these aren't old burners with money camping in RVs....these are first time folks with with their own private no-entrance allowed camp with people working for them...employees....at burning man...quite a few employees in fact....and everything set-up for them so they don't lift a finger...does that not rub you the wrong way? Is that not the total fucking opposite of burning man? i didn't bring-up any class-warfare bullshit....and sorry but if you're at burning man and you're not wiping your own ass you don't fucking get it....its the fucking antithesis of self-reliance.....its also the antithesis of community and non-commodification (unless you count your maids and servants as part of your community)....

the non-commidity things is just about the most bare essential core burningman value that keeps the spirit of the event alive....along with no commerce it is one of the first things about BM that I appreciated when I first started coming....what these hollywood camps are doing is basically a hostile takeover of that whole concept.....and not for an ironic artistic purpose but for a base materialistic purpose....there are lots of wealthy folks at burning man....so what? they build great art and cool camps.....these guys purchased everything and hired others to manage it...its just not the same.... my only questions is whether to just shrug and igonre it (as most people have proposed) or do some kind of counter-insurgency.....I'm not questioning whether its bad....its definitely a bad thing....anyone that can't see that is well...an idiot or just doesn't get it.....

[unjonharley]

Sitting out dust storms and mid day heat in your fancy RV is boring. Given the limited time to interact with the natives. Or the inability to.. The Big money RV'ers will lose interest fast..

[Captain Goddammit]

I have a 20-year-old RV, not a $500k bus, but I love being able to sit out the dust storms and daytime heat inside with the AC on; it takes the suffering out of the playa and makes it all more fun. Anyone with any means at all can do it, you just gotta use older, cheaper stuff.

But then, I'll take any opportunity to disagree with that lousy, rotten, good-for-nothing Unjonharley. He should be banned from the playa permanently. He'll poke holes in your water supply, drink all your booze and return it as vomit on your sleeping bag, and play crummy music all night. And that's when he's on his BEST behavior.

[MrMullen]

The Playa is full of so many class warfare commies.

If a couple of guys who have money want to have delivered a couple of high end RV's out to the Playa, have all of their meals cooked and then be delivered in a private jet with their hookers, all the power to them. If you don't like it, then don't go to Burningman. Let's be honest, a great waste of wealth is Burningman itself. With all of money we spend on Burningman, we could feed a whole lotta people somewhere on the planet. These are not people looking for a vacation but looking to live. When you stop attending Burningman, eat food out of you own garden, walk everywhere and wear clothes you have made, then come back and criticize someone else for how they spend their money.

[alt12]

The Playa is full of so many class warfare commies.

If a couple of guys who have money want to have delivered a couple of high end RV's out to the Playa, have all of their meals cooked and then be delivered in a private jet with their hookers, all the power to them. If you don't like it, then don't go to Burningman. Let's be honest, a great waste of wealth is Burningman itself. With all of money we spend on Burningman, we could feed a whole lotta people somewhere on the planet. These are not people looking for a vacation but looking to live. When you stop attending Burningman, eat food out of you own garden, walk everywhere and wear clothes you have made, then come back and criticize someone else for how they spend their money.

well again....this ain't a class warfare thing....its a principles of burningman thing....or should there be no principles? no core values? part of the event is de-commodification, sorry if that sounds communest to you but that is what the event was founded on.....Are you aware that banning commerce or marketing from burningman was a strategic decision to create a temporary community were things like class and relationships based on employment, income, etc. don't exist? Do you just not get that whole part of Burning Man? Are you just in it for the raves? Or the camping in the desert? I mean jesus fucking christ.......what do you thing this shit is about? I just don't understand how you can go year after year and not get that....

hate to tell you buddy, but burning man is a san francisco event founded by san franciscans with san francisco left values....its just a fact....some of those values are left/commie/whateverthefuckyou want to call it....if you don't like it maybe you shouldn't come back next year....personally I like having more republicanesque folks at BM because I hope that some of our SF values will rub-off on them....but I guess not always....

...when you have a moment..... read the following below....I'm not some big orthodox burningman enforcer or anything....in fact I haven't this in years, but this IS a big part of what burningman is about whether you like it or not....

(http://www.burningman.com/whatisburning ... iples.html)
Ten Principles of Burning Man

Radical Inclusion
Anyone may be a part of Burning Man. We welcome and respect the stranger. No prerequisites exist for participation in our community.

Gifting
Burning Man is devoted to acts of gift giving. The value of a gift is unconditional. Gifting does not contemplate a return or an exchange for something of equal value.

Decommodification
In order to preserve the spirit of gifting, our community seeks to create social environments that are unmediated by commercial sponsorships, transactions, or advertising. We stand ready to protect our culture from such exploitation. We resist the substitution of consumption for participatory experience.

Radical Self-reliance
Burning Man encourages the individual to discover, exercise and rely on his or her inner resources.

Radical Self-expression
Radical self-expression arises from the unique gifts of the individual. No one other than the individual or a collaborating group can determine its content. It is offered as a gift to others. In this spirit, the giver should respect the rights and liberties of the recipient.

Communal Effort
Our community values creative cooperation and collaboration. We strive to produce, promote and protect social networks, public spaces, works of art, and methods of communication that support such interaction.

Civic Responsibility
We value civil society. Community members who organize events should assume responsibility for public welfare and endeavor to communicate civic responsibilities to participants. They must also assume responsibility for conducting events in accordance with local, state and federal laws.

Leaving No Trace
Our community respects the environment. We are committed to leaving no physical trace of our activities wherever we gather. We clean up after ourselves and endeavor, whenever possible, to leave such places in a better state than when we found them.

Participation
Our community is committed to a radically participatory ethic. We believe that transformative change, whether in the individual or in society, can occur only through the medium of deeply personal participation. We achieve being through doing. Everyone is invited to work. Everyone is invited to play. We make the world real through actions that open the heart.

Immediacy
Immediate experience is, in many ways, the most important touchstone of value in our culture. We seek to overcome barriers that stand between us and a recognition of our inner selves, the reality of those around us, participation in society, and contact with a natural world exceeding human powers. No idea can substitute for this experience.




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[alt12]

oh and sorry one more thing..... I couldn't care less if someone wants to have a materialistic orgy at home....its not my thing (i.e. I decided a long time ago that money toys are not the most important thing in life)....but fine.....I grew with that shit and decided it wasn't for me and moved out here.... I don't envy/despise/hate folks with lots of money.....do whatever you want at home, my issue is purely with having people purchase a burningman experience....thats all.....