Why more fees ($50-$500) for 'where' you camp on the playa?

[koz2012]

i'm a veteran burner, and have, like the rest of us, been a bit perturbed by how much the BLM and other gov't agencies charge us to hang out in the desert for a week. It's become quite an investment these last several years.

Now i understand that if you want to camp within the proximity of various 'theme' camps, you have to pay an additional fee per person ranging from $50.00 to $500.00 (camp Entheon). So now it's like there are 'gated communities' within the playa that are only reserved for those willling to drop hundreds more?

Is anyone else upset about this, or am i just a whiner with money issues?

I feel like to not pay the extra fees, i'll be relegated to the outer rim of B.R.City, with the other 'serf' and 'peasant' burners... instead of with the cool-elite folks..... bummer

[Bay Bridge Sue]

if you want to camp within the proximity of various 'theme' camps, you have to pay an additional fee ...

... Is anyone else upset about this, or am i just a whiner with money issues? ...

I feel like to not pay the extra fees, i'll be relegated to the outer rim of B.R.City, with the other 'serf' and 'peasant' burners... instead of with the cool-elite folks..... bummer

If you are a veteran burner, then you know theme camps are an expensive mother to pull off. Our fees cover the expense to keep the theme camp running.

What? You want to camp in a place where the people have a huge infrastructure investment, some going back years, and not be a part of the camp? Like, "I'm not gonna pay to support all the money it costs to run and host this camp this year, but I should be able to camp there anyway?

Know what? SOme of us pay through the nose beyond our camp taxes just to float the camp, AND buy our tix to boot. Some have (literally) tens of thousands into their camp out of their own pocket.

So of the 2 choices, I'd guess it's the latter. Especially if you ARE a veteran of more than one burn under your belt.

There's nothing to starting your own camp, even on the outer fringes. Try it. Or get involved in a theme camp next year. But when they ask for you to come up with your equal share of camp dues, don't fucking snivel - because others, guaren-fucking-teed, have more in it than you.

[Isotopia]

'm a veteran burner

Oh, that's rich.

[Eric]

Another point you have completely wrong:

Now i understand that if you want to camp within the proximity of various 'theme' camps, you have to pay an additional fee per person ranging from $50.00 to $500.00

You don't have to do anything. Go camp in unassigned camping and quit whining.

As BBSue said, if you're camping with a theme camp, you have to contribute, and a lot of camps want or need that as money (to buy booze for the bar, to buy new metal for dome-struts, to buy ....... whatever is needed for the camp). Some ask for contributions as services- you cook, you clean, you become Copy Editor. Some ask for a bit of both.

Put up or shut up. Those "gated communities", as you call them, are put together by people who are willing to go above and beyond to contribute to an amazing experience for the rest of us.

BBSue- I'm meeting you this year if it kills me. And making plans usually does.

[SED]

Is anyone else upset about this, or am i just a whiner with money issues?

You are a whiner with money issues. But that doesn't mean you can't launch shit-bomb mortars from a block away. It's all a matter of committment and creativity. Take a page from the Hezbollah play book (Hez-playa?)

[Kinetic IV]

What about those who WANT to be part of a gated community and are willing to pay "camp taxes", oops I meant fund creative efforts that go above and beyond the mundane? The doors aren't exactly open for the flipside scenario either.

[Lady V]

I believe this is a question sparked by lack of information.

We started our own theme camp this year and didn't ask anyone else to contribute to it monetarily (we are having just a few other people). We thought it would be a couple thousand dollars, since we aren't putting together a communal kitchen and aren't filling our dome with futons or pillows (whoa those things are pricey) and we are crafty and resourceful. We are wayyyy over our budget now (but our camp is going to be realllly pretttie and we are having such a blast!). One of our campmates is building the dome (!) and one is giving us a huge discount on all our lights, and one is buying a generator and one is finding us carpets and rugs and stuff. It would be 'cheaper' for each of them if they were just paying a camp fee! :0)

I can't see how theme camps bigger than ours and not organized by very rich people could make it happen without contributions from campmates, and even camps our size have to have some serious investment.

[zorro sings]

The range($50-$500) can be stretched a bit in any case.We charge $25 and believe me that is token.

[Ron]

What about those who WANT to be part of a gated community and are willing to pay "camp taxes", oops I meant fund creative efforts that go above and beyond the mundane? The doors aren't exactly open for the flipside scenario either.

Shady Asylum is open to any burners that agree to live up to our camp expectations, K. Drop me a line if you want to talk more.

Ron

[theCryptofishist]

Eplaya Bar Camp doesn't have fees either. But we are a freshman camp and maybe we're jsut getting by by enthusiasm and naivitay. We are also putting in lots of time and money to build the bar, stock it, run my craft project, run a hooping seminar and BED seminars and I don't knwo what else. Our poor camp mapper has had to produce a dozen maps as our specifications change. Some people have contacted me and asked to join and I was perfectly willing to charge them $25 - 50 because it was late in the game and we were dealing with an unknown quality. What I didn't say was that in my mind at least there was teh possiblity of a refund post event if it seemed warrented.
Being a camp mayor made me aware of the burden of non-contributers to other camp members. I'm not sure if mine is the best way of dealing with it, but I am convinced that an open-door policy would burn out the hard-working core-campers. I'm not sure that it is possible to be completely "fair." I do think you can by open about your process and be willing to consider that you have blind spots. But as a woman, I also know that there are guys who will try and argue you into a blow job using all that process and fairness and reasonableness who aren't worth sleeping with and who will afterwards treat you so atrociously that even if no one else ever finds out you will still at least once, call yourself "sucker."

[Dr. Pyro]

Barbie Death Camp & Wine Bistro, for the first time, is charging our citizens "dues". It is only $50 ($100 if you are alone in an RV) per person, and we had some grumbling at first. But when you consider the costs involved (for example, and certainly not limited to: 800 pounds of propane for our fire cannon, the cost of renting a storage facility for over 1000 Barbies, 40 gallons of wine, fireworks, satillite radio and insurance for our art car, Otter Pops and beer which are freely handed out, etc.) you will see that $50 is a bargain. It doesn't even come close to covering our expenses, not by a long shot. So again, I am in agreement with BBSue, quite your fucking sniveling and get with the program. To go cheap is expensive, to go expensive isn't that much more expensive. Or looking at it another way, go first class or go third class, but never go second class.

[Rockdad]

Blatant Advertisment for ePlaya bar camp 2006


I can get anyone into ePlaya Bar Camp for a flat fee of $1500 that includes seven nights six days and $150 in ePlaya Bar Bucks.

The best spots are going fast

Some space still open with adjacent water features nearby

Includes Shower but bring your own warm water.

Free parking, Free shade, and free drinks

You must de-moop for at least two hours before leaving.

sorry no phone no pool

[blyslv]

BDC and WB is a great camp, but dollar for dollar (5 to be exact) your best camping experience will be in my camp!

[Hazbro]

800 pounds of propane for our fire cannon, the cost of renting a storage facility for over 1000 Barbies, 40 gallons of wine, fireworks, satillite radio and insurance for our art car, Otter Pops and beer

Your own burningman theme camp PRICELESS. :wink:

[trilobyte]

I'd say you're a whiner with money issues.

Camps organize and pay for their own expenses in any way that they choose to.

You want to be part of some big fancy camp with all kinds of cool amenities, and that's great. But you don't want to have to help pay for it (like all the other members of the camp) and put in all the work the camp members put in all year? Too bad. You can't have it both ways.

If you're talking about proximity as in just being nearby a big camp (as opposed to camping within their space), then just get there earlier. There's a lot of space out there that's unreserved, if you arrive on Monday there shouldn't be any trouble getting within a couple blocks from a camp you want to be close to.

My recommendation? Bring out all the stuff you want in a camp yourself. It will be motherfucking expensive, and the costs in time and cash will probably make you want to cry. But then you'll have a better sense of what it takes for other camps to make it work, and you'll stop whining about camps who charge dues/fees.

~Trilo~

[Marscrumbs]

From the way you describe that , That's sucks, and is un-Burnsmanship. But if you mean contributing and sharing the cost of running a theme camp. Why not. But if these are private campground for profit withing the Burn, That sucks.

[Kinetic IV]

From the way you describe that , That's sucks, and is un-Burnsmanship. But if you mean contributing and sharing the cost of running a theme camp. Why not. But if these are private campground for profit withing the Burn, That sucks.

It's about funding the theme camps, not about having private campgrounds of burnier than thou elites. (With two notable camp exceptions I won't name)

[uncle sticky]

The way I read the question, it was more of why is the BLM or BR LLC charging extra fees for a good placement? Which, to the best of my knowledge, they don't. If you pay to be part of a camp, that's totally the camps' decsion, based upon, as folks have pointed out, the cost to them of running the camp. These camps are not a part of the LLC or the BLM, they're groups of friends and associates, all participants who buy their tickets, and then throw their souls into making it happen.

[Mister Jellyfish Mister]

Wow Koz, consider yourself "flamed". Dig all these hard working people who are building and event FOR YOU that you can visit any time you wish. You are dissapointed because we have not yet invited you to sleep in our tents? Why not walk down the road and look for a camp that:

-Looks like fun
-Is setting up and needs help

Then just pitch in and start hammering rebar or whatever is needed with ABSOLUTELY NO EXPECTATION OF RECIPRICATION. See just how welcome you are made to feel.

Givers gain, dude.

We don't owe you a good burn.

[Silver 2]

Oh, hell, my turn.

I generally live alone in Hushville, this year I am in Hushville with two friends. It does, and always has, cost me more to live alone than with a camp. OK maybe not the bigger ticket $300+ camps and I have to do everything myself. In '04 when I drove out and set up a hot coco and rum for breakfast thing I bought the coco, the rum, the 20X30 tarp and poles and whatnot. I made the hundreds of gifty things and paid for the materials. This is my choice, I am on the internal email lists of two theme camps and will help them set up and take down, contribute booze of one sort or another because I appreciate the work they are doing and the money and time they have spent. At some point I'll drop by EPlaya and drop off a bottle of rum and some cokes because I know that will be one of my regular stops on that side (and I like rum and coke). I'll also drop off stuff at the Deep End, those people work and provide a wonderful venue.

I don't really want the responsibility of theme camp work and I thank those who do.

[Interested bystander]

I won't address paying to camp with other folks because I'm not that big on group camping. I don't like fitting my schedule to the needs of others. However, I would like to address the "outer fringes" comment. When I first started attending BM you could go late in the week and get a good spot. Even as late as 2002 I could go out Wednesday and find a spot near the theme camps. Now with tons of early entries and land grabbers it's hard to find a spot later than Tuesday morning.

This year my wife and I were able to get away and show up Wednesday morning. We drove around for awhile and didn't find much in the way of available space. We did find some areas where someone had a car parked in the middle of a 100'x100' square that was taped off while they waited for their buddies and their RVs to show up later. Anyway, we ended up on the outer ring at 5:30 and Hope and I was kind of bummed by being out so far. My thoughts were that there wouldn't be any pedestrian traffic, no art passing by for us to see while in camp, lots of cars from new arrivals kicking up dust, boredom. Well, I was completely wrong. There was a lot more pedestrian traffic than I thought. The new water truck kept the dust down and I think it was the least dusty place I've camped. There were plenty of art cars making the rounds. We had a great view of the mountains and the sunsets were fantastic. We were able to watch all the activity at the airport. It was also a quick trip to our volunteer spot Camp Arctica. In fact it was much closer to the things we like about BM than when we were camped in the middle of all the hustle and bustle. It was so good we're going to camp "out" next year too. Don't dis the outer fringes, there are some great people out there.

[[CDS] topher]

Yeah, kind of a whiner. See the aqbove replies. cAMPS ARE f&^ing HARD TO Pull off and cost a lot of money.

The year we set up Debbie's Petting Zoo, we (well, *I*) laid out AMNY thounsands of dollars (ever try to buy a circus tent? Thousands of watts of UV/blacklights? not cheap). Renting trucks, getting people there, getting furniutre for guests to relax non, having enough booze, making sure the DJ's stuff was safe, renint a floppoy pink dancy guy for out front, hundreds of pounds of metal strusts, generators, shit - it was amazing me made the camp happen at all, an while lots of people put in lots of time to make little parts of it happen, in most camps it's usually one or two people who lay out the cash.

So you should be GLAD for the chance to contribute what you're asked to to make something cool hoppen.

By the way, that year, we won "Best late nigh chill out spot" or somesuch in piss clear. So was the $8000 well spent? Yep. And I wish more people had been willing and able to help offset some of that expense.

[Mozy bonz]

$10,000+ cost for Eplaya Bar.....Great camps, great Bars and great art cost real money... nuff said...

[Toolmaker]

Blatant Advertisment for ePlaya bar camp 2006
I can get anyone into ePlaya Bar Camp for a flat fee of $1500 that includes seven nights six days and $150 in ePlaya Bar Bucks.

Commerce is bad.

Theme camps cost money.. food and drinks cost money. It makes perfect sense to me for a theme camp to ask you for 50 bucks and for you to bring a can of propane and some water. As mentioned by others.. all those domes and whatnot cost money to maintain and transport. Most themecamps seem to be non-profit to me. ePlaya Bar is the first I have heard of with such a high price so I guess some asshole is lining their pockets. Covering costs is one thing.. making huge profits is a whole nother animal. It is nice to know where ePlaya Bar folks stand in the scheme of things.

[nogganoodle]

Blatant Advertisment for ePlaya bar camp 2006
I can get anyone into ePlaya Bar Camp for a flat fee of $1500 that includes seven nights six days and $150 in ePlaya Bar Bucks.

Commerce is bad.

Theme camps cost money.. food and drinks cost money. It makes perfect sense to me for a theme camp to ask you for 50 bucks and for you to bring a can of propane and some water. As mentioned by others.. all those domes and whatnot cost money to maintain and transport. Most themecamps seem to be non-profit to me. ePlaya Bar is the first I have heard of with such a high price so I guess some asshole is lining their pockets. Covering costs is one thing.. making huge profits is a whole nother animal. It is nice to know where ePlaya Bar folks stand in the scheme of things.

As a Bar Camper myself I can safely say that I certainly wouldn't pay that amount of money to camp with them, and I think you will find that that was meant to be a joke.

[The CO]

The only thing M*A*S*H 4207th has charged for in 7 years is the cost (actual, no markup) for t-shirts & sweatshirts... and no one is required to buy them.

Our camp members bring all there own food & drinks, (to many varied diets to run a communal kitchen-tried it in years past) plus whatever they want to contribute to the community.

Last year we had over 30 bottles of booze & about 4 cases of beer contributed by strangers on-playa. Didn't ask for it, just showed up.

Like uncle sticky, I interperted the original post to mean the org was charging, which is total bogusness. Never happened to anyone I heard of: did someone get scammed?

But... We (wife & I) generally spend $2000-5000 on BRC related costs... and I have no issue with that. It's our choice, and the fun in BRC vastly outwieghs any financial burden.

[thisisthatwhichis]

Blatant Advertisment for ePlaya bar camp 2006
I can get anyone into ePlaya Bar Camp for a flat fee of $1500 that includes seven nights six days and $150 in ePlaya Bar Bucks.

Commerce is bad.

Theme camps cost money.. food and drinks cost money. It makes perfect sense to me for a theme camp to ask you for 50 bucks and for you to bring a can of propane and some water. As mentioned by others.. all those domes and whatnot cost money to maintain and transport. Most themecamps seem to be non-profit to me. ePlaya Bar is the first I have heard of with such a high price so I guess some asshole is lining their pockets. Covering costs is one thing.. making huge profits is a whole nother animal. It is nice to know where ePlaya Bar folks stand in the scheme of things.

Silly Tool-fool, that was a joke, read the whole thread where that came from... The 10K was real and a cost borne by one member, whom NEVER asked for any form on repayment!
It was their gift to the success of the EPlaya Bar camp. Many others also contributed in the thousands. Don't ASSume money was collected, or any sort of commerce conducted. It was a HUGE gift to the community.... and I can only hope..... appreciated.

[pinemom]

hahhaaaa...he "toolmaker" thought that was the cost to be part of eplaya bar camp...what a tool!
hahahaaaa

Eplaya Bar Camp was a colaberation of some most awesome people, we made it happen by just donating alcohol and mixers to the bar....which mind you, we all drank!

We cooked togther, we shared meals, we ALL cleaned up and Moop'ed on twice daily basis without having to ask it of each other. We worked as a team like a well oiled machinery! We watched out for each others belongings. We were family!!!

Dont Talk shit about my family dude!

[SED]

As a Bar Camper myself I can safely say that I certainly wouldn't pay that amount of money to camp with them, and I think you will find that that was meant to be a joke.

How much would you pay to camp with me, Nogga?

[nogganoodle]

As a Bar Camper myself I can safely say that I certainly wouldn't pay that amount of money to camp with them, and I think you will find that that was meant to be a joke.

How much would you pay to camp with me, Nogga?

Why, all the money in the world SED.

What a silly question.