2006 BRC Plan - Theme Camps in the 'Suburbs'

[griffin]

Tapestry - Where on Gestalt were you?

It's my theory that camps right on the main streets of 4:30 and 7:30 did just fine. It's the camps further down those streets that got ignored. Just a theory, but it seemed true on Fetish.

Two more plazas could help. I like that idea. The plazas seem to bring a lot of traffic to 3 and 9.

[Tapestry]

[quote="griffin"]Tapestry - Where on Gestalt were you?

I was at 4:30 & Gestalt at Hair of the Dog--across from the Golden Cafe and next door to Costco. There always seemed to be something going on nearby.

[blyslv]

The most valuable of all the scarce burningman resources is mindshare.

[AntiM]

Hair of the Dog graciously got me drunk as a sailor one afternoon. A man wandering by gifted me an amzing frosted glass burning woman, um, plate thingy. And of course, I adore the Golden Cafe.

[willowRage]

Our camp was at 7:15 and Fetish and it sucked. We were also larger than in '04 but had substantially less traffic. It was moral buster.

I hope the powers that be wise up and don't repeat the same thing this year.

[Gravity Mike]

Tapestry - Where on Gestalt were you?

I was at 4:30 & Gestalt at Hair of the Dog--across from the Golden Cafe and next door to Costco. There always seemed to be something going on nearby.

I thought that you guys had pretty good traffic - but then again I hadn't been to Hair O'Dog previously. We were on Fetish, at about 7:45, just around the corner. Most of our (little) traffic were folks going to/from Hair O'Dog. You guys are a destination. I guess it wasn't full all the time, but it certainly was packed with some regularity. In general, this 'neighborhood' (7:30&Fetish) seemed more active in the afternoons (which is consistent with our camp's mission) with some obvious exceptions - there was a real nice Friday night party (ended by midnight) at that camp right next to Golden Cafe (don't remember their name).

I loved Golden Cafe too - and does anybody know that bluegrass band that played there? Normally, I loathe bluegrass, but I really loved these guys. They were both serious and a self parody, playing BG versions of pop music, and funny custom BM-lyric originals (? or BG standards a la Weird Al and Dr. Demento? I don't know).

Anyhow, that seems to be the overall consensus if you read all the old posts too - if you're in theme camp 'pergatory,' you need to have frontage on the radial streets. Frontage on the radial streets could be increased with plazas centered on 'C' or 'D' streets.

If they maintain this new city plan, they shouldn't place theme camps on the circular streets (beyond a certain point from Esplanade - 'A' or 'B'), only radial.

Gravity

[Bob A]

frontage on the radial streets. Frontage on the radial streets could be increased with plazas centered on 'C' or 'D' streets.

If they maintain this new city plan, they shouldn't place theme camps on the circular streets (beyond a certain point from Esplanade - 'A' or 'B'), only radial.

Gravity

THat was my thought to. The radial streets were not bad, but if you were trying to stroll theme camp areas, to see everything, you would need to keep ducking down "the alleys" to see people who were placed on the circular streets. Then turn around do it in the other direction and then move on to the next street. IT made strolling require much more thinking. or you just skipped the alleys and just strolled the main spoke. More plazas could help the new system too.

Bob A

[serafaery]

I really enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts an imput. I can totally understand the frustration of putting a lot of work into a camp and then finding it difficult to share with others because of low traffic - that's a huge bummer. Next year I'm sure will be better either way, because it'll either a) go back to the way it was, or 2) people will be a little more accustomed to the spread-outedness and seek out more distant camps.

I think my real problem with all of the centrally located fancy camps really was my newbie-ness. If there isn't any welcoming sign or agent, I am not going to just wander in to what looks like an exclusive social club - I am too respectful of people's space, and very wary of anything that looks cliquish, to do that.

I guess my real issue was that on the "spokes" the camps were much more likely to have people say "hey, come 'ere!" than those out on the Esplanade. that was the kind of openness I enjoyed most about Burning Man, so I would hate to lose that, if all theme camps stay clique-y in appearance when centrally located, becase they don't feel the need to welcome shy newbies or lonely wanderers from the sticks. But I'm still very new at all this, and wouldn't expect the community to cater to my individual needs! I want what's best for everyone and makes the most people the happiest, even if it leaves me feeling a little isolated and lost when on the Esplanade or in theme-camp-land.

[Bob A]

I think my real problem with all of the centrally located fancy camps really was my newbie-ness. If there isn't any welcoming sign or agent, I am not going to just wander in to what looks like an exclusive social club - I am too respectful of people's space, and very wary of anything that looks cliquish, to do that.

Yea I'vehad the same issue. Last year was my 2nd year and I still felt a little uncomfortable just walking up to a camp that wasn't being obviously inviting. OR with some camps you would walk up and they would be like, oh we are full, we're closed for a few hours, or will be opening latter, we are closed for a private function. This actually happened pretty often with camps on the espanade.

Bob A

[griffin]

with some camps you would walk up and they would be like, oh we are full, we're closed for a few hours, or will be opening latter, we are closed for a private function.

Well, my camp isn't/wasn't on the Esplanade, but we do have time that we are closed. Infact, we are only open a few hours each day, then a few hours at night. We are a small camp, and we have just enough people to run the camp. We like to go out and see the city sometimes too, and we like to rest, and to be honest, we get sick and tired of people sometimes and we just need a break.

When we are open, we make it obvious. We put out a big sign, not just saying that we're open, but what we are doing while we are open. And unfortunately, there are those burners who refuse to believe that anything is ever closed. We have had people demand us to open and play BINGO (that's what we do). When we refuse, for a reason like we are having dinner at the moment, they would then demand a prize. This has happened several times. It's people like this that camps must have "closed" times, and make it clear to people that they are closed.

Of course we are always open to visitors, and we would even be glad to share our dinner with an unexpected guest stranger, but when somebody demands something is when it stops being fun. There is a difference between being open for business, and open for basic socialization. Not all camps get that, and not all people get that. All we can do, is have fun with it.

[Kinetic IV]

Major Whine: 4 years of going, 4 years of still being shy about walking into the camps. I don't want to be one of those people that Griffin was posting about. And if I do go into a camp I'm unsure how the bars work and unless I'm with someone who knows that particular bartender I don't ask for anything. So I end up coming home hearing all these wonderful stories about this camp or that camp and this drink or that drink and I'm like damn, I missed that and that. That being said it's better to have missed it then to come across as a demanding pompous ass. Couple the desire to be nice and respectful along with a strong case of shyness and it puts a serious crimp on experiencing much of what the playa has to offer.

[Bob A]

with some camps you would walk up and they would be like, oh we are full, we're closed for a few hours, or will be opening latter, we are closed for a private function.

Well, my camp isn't/wasn't on the Esplanade, but we do have time that we are closed. Infact, we are only open a few hours each day, then a few hours at night. We are a small camp, and we have just enough people to run the camp. We like to go out and see the city sometimes too, and we like to rest, and to be honest, we get sick and tired of people sometimes and we just need a break.

When we are open, we make it obvious. We put out a big sign, not just saying that we're open, but what we are doing while we are open.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I understand a camp needs to close sometimes. I'm doing a camp this year and we are planning on having limited hours. And like you we are going to have a sign, a schedule of what’s going on when and make it plain when we are open and closed. My frustration is with the camps that keep it very vague, can't tell if they are open, when they will be open, do they want guests, etc.

And unfortunately, there are those burners who refuse to believe that anything is ever closed. We have had people demand us to open and play BINGO (that's what we do). When we refuse, for a reason like we are having dinner at the moment, they would then demand a prize. This has happened several times. It's people like this that camps must have "closed" times, and make it clear to people that they are closed.

You know it’s hard to believe there are people out there like that, but I've seen them too. I try to tell myself it's the context of the situation, and they can't really be the assholes they appear to be. At least I hope that’s the case. Maybe they just had a very frustrating afternoon and you’re the straw that broke the back. OR maybe they perceived some attitude that wasn't there from you, so took offensive. Of course that works for 1 or 2 people but when it happens all day you start to wonder.

Last year I had a bar cart. And Sat. night we locked it up on the playa when we were done for the night. I went back sun. Morning to pick it up while we were breaking down camp. These 2 guys came up started talking and pretty much demanded alcohol. Told them we were closed and were just bringing it back to camp to pack up. I ended up unlocking the bar and giving them glasses of straight rum on ice to get them to leave. Very odd situation. They never offered to help push the cart though.

Of course then there was the reverse odd couple. They offered to help push and wouldn't take no thanks for an answer. They felt the need to run while pushing the cart not just walk. That was fun given the condition me and my friend were in. They wanted to help, but they wanted to get it over with I guess?


bob A

[Bob A]

So I end up coming home hearing all these wonderful stories about this camp or that camp and this drink or that drink and I'm like damn, I missed that and that. That being said it's better to have missed it then to come across as a demanding pompous ass. Couple the desire to be nice and respectful along with a strong case of shyness and it puts a serious crimp on experiencing much of what the playa has to offer.

Hey get out of my head. ARe you my long lost sibling?

Bob A

[griffin]

Well, I'm the shyest person I know, but I seem to open up a bit more at burning man. As a bartender at the event, I've learned some insider secrets. Hopefully other bartenders won't get mad at me for revealing these secrets but here they are:

1. Never ask for a drink, unless you are asked what you want to drink.
2. Compliment the bar, the camp, the music, the lighting, the bartender.
3. If you are very uncertain, bring a drink with you, you are likely to get it filled when you are done.
4. If you are really, really uncertain, bring a bottle of booze, or mixer with you. Even a couple cans of coke are appreciated by most bartenders. A bag of ice is a very nice gesture too.
5. Oh yeah, and bring a cup. And if you bring a cup, bring a modestly sized one. I hate when people walk up with a cup the size of a big gulp, and ask for a drink.
6. Also order a simple drink. Vodka and juice, or coke. Sometimes it's good to order whatever the bartender suggests, which will usually be vodka/cranberry. But if the bartender looks annoyed, come up with a simple order quick.

What bartenders don't like, are people who walk from camp to camp getting as many "free dinks" as possible. I don't like to see people getting passed out hammered drunk, and I won't serve them.

We tend bar because we like to sit back and let the event come to us, rather than go out and find it. It's nice to get to know the people that you are serving drinks to. So sit a while, chat it up. If you are like most people, you will drop inhibitions as you drink. This is probobly bad advice, and it's one of the reasons that I don't have kids, but it works. And bartenders know that, so they will sauce you up, to get you to talk.

I guess in short, be respectful. Think about how you would feel if you spend around $1000 on booze just to give away. It's there to give away, but you want it to go to a good cause. At least at our bar, there is no minimum of cool.

I hope this helps. Have fun. Don't be shy. Remember that we run our bars because we want to. Without you, we have to take it all home.

[AntiM]

If you're a newbie and/or shy about asking for drinks, try the Golden Cafe. Everyone gets a drink there and they serve in their own glass glasses. They always need ice and a spot of dishwashing is usually welcome, as is good booze. Amazing friendly folks! Live music too!

(drinking whine) My biggest problem this year will be my newfound sodium benzoate allergy/reaction. Turns out the stuff makes me sick as hell and I haven't known this for years; doctors thought I had chronic fatigue or was a major hypochondriac (shut up). Trouble is that it is in almost all sodas and mixers and snowcone syrups and even occurs naturally in cranberries. Guess I'll be drinking wine or shots or bring along my own organic sodas. Bartenders are going to think I'm fussy, and yeah, I kinda have to be. Wah, no more chainsaw margaritas. (whine over)

[Bob A]

(drinking whine) My biggest problem this year will be my newfound sodium benzoate allergy/reaction. Turns out the stuff makes me sick as hell and I haven't known this for years; doctors thought I had chronic fatigue or was a major hypochondriac (shut up). Trouble is that it is in almost all sodas and mixers and snowcone syrups and even occurs naturally in cranberries. Guess I'll be drinking wine or shots or bring along my own organic sodas. Bartenders are going to think I'm fussy, and yeah, I kinda have to be. Wah, no more chainsaw margaritas. (whine over)

Hey you should try mine. celiac Sprue. I can't have any wheat or unknown food starch. That means I have to refuse most all the food I'm offered while walking around. I also can't do some of my camps meals. real fun. Then there is my other camp mate who is on a super low sodium diet for a different disease. She can have almost no sodium and then couple that with the fact that she needs some extra because of the desert conditions a very fine line to walk.

bob A

[Kinetic IV]

Don't be shy. Easier said than done...Online it's one thing. On the playa sometimes I get petrified...which gets ugly when you don't know the unwritten rules. I've brought mixers before and offered so that's got me in the door, I also carry a smaller cup so I got that down.

Much of the time the drinks are not why I'm there...I have my own stuff with me. I'm really interested in the camp and how it was setup and the people there. But some camps are like ice palaces with chilly receptions to all who enter...especially if you don't know someone...you break out of your shell and you still get nowhere in those places. I know I'm whining but perhaps the whining and everyone else's comments will get people to thinking about how their camp appears to the rest of BRC. You spend all that time building the camp, if someone comes in and compliments you on it at least smile and nod, don't scowl and be a snot or assume they want to raid your bar.

Speaking of bad reactions to things wait till you learn you're allergic to some types of chocolate! I'd never heard of a sodium benzoate reaction before, that's a first. Interesting....I'm curious how you found out you had that.

[griffin]

Sadly, many camps register as theme camps, just to get a good spot. Some camps are interactive, but only to people who are super cool. Those people are stuck in their own world, and they will never truly experience burning man. All you can hope for is to find a few camps that you enjoy, and that enjoy having you there. At burning man, you learn pretty quickly that you can't do everything, but after a few years, you learn that you don't really want to do everything. But if you step just a few inches outside of your comfort level, you will usually find really cool people, and before you know it, you'll be exchanging email addresses to stay in touch.

I've walked into camps, just to compliment their idea, or their structure, and they all stare at me blankly. I hate that, and it makes me want to crawl into a shell. But things like that motivate me to make my camp super inviting to everybody at any time...as long as I'm not eating or sleeping.

Stop by Cypress Lounge Bingo (or our sister camp Cult of Distraction) this summer and check us out. I'd like to know if we are being inviting enough. If not, we'll make some changes.

[Dustdevil]

This was my ninth year and first with any sort of a "bar". Our camp, Brain Freeze Camp gave out frozen margaritas from approx five in the afternoon until about 8:00 pm daily. We brought a double commercial margarita machine and our village had a 220 genny to run it with. The first couple of afternoons we had to encourage people to come into camp and have a frozen drink. By Wednesday the word seemed to get around. By Friday we had gone through about 40 of the large bottles of tequila and twice as much mixer. As far as the people that came by, it was so much fun that we will do it again this year. We supplied the cups and kept them on the small side to extend the supply. It was really very little work as the machine did all the mixing. It gave us a lot of time to talk to people. My wife really got into it. I noted that many people seemed hesitant to accept a drink. I heard a few comments to the effect, "I don't have anything to trade or offer" in exchange. We assured them that barter was not neccesary.

[bdeywoo]

[quote="Kinetic IV"]Major Whine: 4 years of going, 4 years of still being shy about walking into the camps. I don't want to be one of those people that Griffin was posting about. And if I do go into a camp I'm unsure how the bars work and unless I'm with someone who knows that particular bartender I don't ask for anything. So I end up coming home hearing all these wonderful stories about this camp or that camp and this drink or that drink and I'm like damn, I missed that and that. That being said it's better to have missed it then to come across as a demanding pompous ass. Couple the desire to be nice and respectful along with a strong case of shyness and it puts a serious crimp on experiencing much of what the playa has to offer.[/quote]

Sums it up perfectly for me!

[AntiM]

I've noticed a few places where young, pretty and naked gest folks massages, food, drinks and such, but lumpy old-timers get a scowl. Most insulting when the scowler is a lumpy old-timer themselves. Time to move on on that case!

(thread drift) I found the sodium bezoate by accident, drinking vanilla cokes. I was always almost coming down with the flu, sore throat, congestion, aches, severe fatigue; thought it had to do with working with kids at school and seasonal allergies. Nope. I started avoiding coke and it was better, then I began reading labels and tossed pepsi too. Then I really began paying attention and did some internet research on asthamatics in the UK and found the benzoic acid info. I cleared all the SB out of my diet and I feel much better. My oncologist is going to advise some of her other patients to try a change in diet, so I feel validated by a pretty good MD.

Wheat, that's a hard one; chocolate is a freakin' food group!!! Food allergies SUCK. Both larry and I avoid nightshade (tomatoes, potatoes) because it makes our arthritis hurt like hell. I'm supposed to avoid soy protien because it interferes with tamoxifen. ARGH!

(back to your regularly scheduled thread)

[Dr. Pyro]

This is for bedywoo, or however you spell your name (sorry). Feel free at any time day or night to drop by Barbie Death Camp & Wine Bistro (voted by those of us who actually camp there as the best theme camp on the playa FOR FIVE STRAIGHT YEARS!!!) for a glass or two of wine or, should you be so inclined, an Otter Pop. We welcome all visitors and wish more people would be less shy about drinking our award-winning (silver medal winner for our 2001 zinfindel at the California State Fair) wine and just come in and visit. I also believe most camps, at least those that are worth a damn, feel the same way. And if I'm wrong, what's the worst that can happen? They say no or fuck you or piss off or show us your tits? If that happens, give them the bird and go on your merry way.

[mamagrrl]

... We welcome all visitors and wish more people would be less shy about drinking our award-winning wine and just come in and visit. I also believe most camps, at least those that are worth a damn, feel the same way...

I have been to Barbie Death Camp, drank their Wine and kept the commemorative cup for future generations. (It's got a sticker on and everything!) I only wish they had a 'Pose-Your-Own-Barbie' area, so we can play along too! I'm thinkin' Duct Tape Barbie, psycho-style.

After visiting Barbie Death Camp, stagger on over to Iron Rose. We were voted Most Friendly by our neighbors and regulars, some of whom were distinctly lumpy. Last year we were just down the street from our Barbie Bretheren. Who can say this year?

[theCryptofishist]

I only wish they had a 'Pose-Your-Own-Barbie' area, so we can play along too! I'm thinkin' Duct Tape Barbie, psycho-style.

Remember--you can do all the barbie mangling you want and send the results to Doc--or present them to him on-playa!

[mamagrrl]

Yes, but bringing barbies along required planning - and getting the frickin' themecamp on-site is more planning than I can generally handle in any one year.

I wanna mangle a barbie ON-Playa!
Maybe Barbie Death Camp could build a 'Processing Center' (read: box) where waiting Barbies can be selected and, errr... modified by Death Camp Fans for display and eventual re-processing.

[dusty_nipples]

So I check back into this thread and the conversation has evolved into a discussion about how to deal with being shy and approaching camps! How cool! I have a solution... a fun project for all! I'm going to start a new thread just for this subject... PLEASE LOOK FOR IT. I'll call it: The solution for shyness: Random Acts of Postcards.

xoxo

p.s. I still need to pen my letter re: BRC layout, I should get to it next week. Thanks all for the input!

[theCryptofishist]

Yes, but bringing barbies along required planning - and getting the frickin' themecamp on-site is more planning than I can generally handle in any one year.

I wanna mangle a barbie ON-Playa!
Maybe Barbie Death Camp could build a 'Processing Center' (read: box) where waiting Barbies can be selected and, errr... modified by Death Camp Fans for display and eventual re-processing.

Okay, if I get any this year I'll donate them for that purpose. I still have many correct sized dildoes that I never put on last year's bunch, I can donate those too.

[theCryptofishist]

The solution for shyness: Random Acts of Postcards.

Now here's a project that calls out for custom stamps!