Black Rock Scouts... because kids are burners too

[Ugly Dougly]

I think people who want to exclude kids from burning man don't get burning man...Burning man is NOT about exclusion. Nobody cares what you do, so why do you care if I want to share the experience with my kid? In all environments, I parent my kid. This includes shielding her from danger, explaining strange behavior, making sure she's safe and happy. I love that the beauty and art and generosity of burning man is part of her fiber now. What I don't get is that other people have a problem with this. If you want to get your party on, go ahead, if I don't want her exposed we'll walk away, it's not your concern. If you just want to party why are you at burning man which is so much more than just a party. What's wrong with sharing the experience with everyone? Exclusion, prejudice, bigotry, it's all the same, it's all small minded.

Hey, welcome, that's cool.

[Captain Goddammit]

You don't get it. You're typical of parents who think everything is about their kid and whatever inconvenience or changes other people have to make because of them are justified.
I don't care what your rug rat sees. But the powers-that-be, the cops, elected officials, etc. do. The general public does.
I don't care whether you light a joint or drop acid either. But guess who does?
Black Rock City doesn't get to make all it's own rules. It would have a hell of a lot less rules if left to govern itself, but the playa happens to be in the state of Nevada, on federal land.
What YOU think is OK for your kid doesn't matter. What the general public and it's governing bodies does matter. There's a lot of inappropriate-for-children stuff out there. Well... there WAS...

[Leopard Girl]

It's not all about my kid, that's not what I'm saying, it's about being all inclusive. I don't give a crap what you do or where you do it, please afford me the same curtsey. I'm not trying to exclude you even if I think you are a jack ass. Kids are people too, deal with it, or don't, you're the one trying to make rules. The desert and burning man are a gift that is only made more wondrous by including EVERYONE. I feel sorry for you that your bigotry is keeping you from enjoying some of earths great gifts. Can't we all just get alone and cohabitant?

[Ugly Dougly]

Well... there WAS...

So what are you saying then?

[ygmir]

I agree with the Cap'n...........I love kids, but, not there.......and, his points are very valid.
Stuff that could and would go on, with an all adult community, can't or won't go on with kids.
and, if kids are there, you might get arrested for something that, if it was all adults, you would not.
Then, there's the whole under age serving thing, that, bars have to now worry about..........if not one under 18 or 21 (not sure of legalities about serving alcohol), was allowed, then, it'd be easy.
Unless, you want everyone to wear a wrist band.......

No one wants to tell someone how to parent. I think, the issue is, kids present, restricts the actions of some, either morally or legally.............

No one is saying kids can't go. Some are saying they'd rather they didn't.

If you, as a parent, don't like it that others don't like your kids being there.......to bad.......of you choose to bring them, it's up to you, as a parent.
But, don't expect everyone to hug you and sing your praises as "progressive" or whatever.

It's free will, and, free will to like, or not, anything that happens there, and, to voice same.

[gyre]

I once saw a baby give another baby a tattoo.

They were very drunk.

[Leopard Girl]

I don't need your praises and you don't have to like my choices. I guess my point is that one of the founding principles of bm is inclusiveness. Larry Harvey brought his kid to the first bm. Kids have always been allowed to come to bm. BM is more than just a drug filled orgy. There's plenty of 21 and over events if that's what you want. But bm is so many things to so many people and trying to exclude kids is just more rules and I think it goes against the values that BM tries to promote. I think there's enough room in the desert for everyone.

[Sondra]

It's hard to believe this debate is still going on. Kids aren't going away. Period. Any movement that has been remotely sustainable has invited kids and families. Research it.

There are stupid parents - no doubt, but the grand majority of kidsvillians are not said stupid parents and the kids are mature and creative. If they bug you, it's you - in fact, if ANYTHING bugs - it's you. Always. No really. Research it.

So if you're raining on someone's project or trying to get a rise - might just wanna look inside and wonder for a brief moment as to just why you need to do that. BM never was kid free, and never will be. So the whining is a little um, er, childish. Don't you think?

If I know the kidsville parents and kids well enough, I suspect that the scout idea with be subversive enough to get at least a giggle out of the most hard-core DPW desert rat out there. Quit trying to make parents feel bad for raising the outcome of all that hedonism. It makes y'all look like self-loathing burners. If you're not ok with what you're doing enough to not be terrified that the kids may see - maybe you aren't ok with yourselves. Some of us are. Deal.

[Kinetik V]

As a parent I fully intend to bring my child to Burning Man. And as for the complaints about having to turn the event into a Bohemian Disneyland to appease law enforcement...LE simply enforces community standards among other things. There are ways for us to influence those "community standards". We also have an obligation to the community as a whole to keep publicity seeking, election minded career law enforcement people from gaining the power to enforce their "Fred Phelps closed mindset type approach" on the rest of us...and trust me it can be done.

In short: I will bring my boy. I want him to attend a fully functional uncensored event. I will do the censoring for him, and not call on public officials to do it and if they overstep they get slapped back through the political process.

[Sail Man]

I will be bringing my 7 year old back to kidsville this year for the third year in a row. He loves it, isn't fazed by anything unless I cut back on his RDA of chef-boyardee. I do not censor him from anything, nor does he wonder into theme camps looking for a bloody mary (he doesnt like pickles) I dont take him into camps that have a decidedly adult theme, no Comfort and Joy for him. We wonder around during the day looking at art cars and installations, and we wander the open playa at night checking out the lights and fire effects. Didnt take him to any of the sound camps at night, though he did visit Root Society by day, as well as beat me with the pommel sticks courtesy of the Death Guild, inside Center Camp.

If you are censoring yourself because kids are present, then you are selling yourself and him short. And myself. I accept the fact that I cant do certain things with him there. One day I will go by myself and experience the other side of the burn, that is if I can sneak away and go without him noticing

Sondra is right. Most parents at kidsville are very conscientious and keep an eye on and take appropriate care of their kids. Last year we had a father who didnt, and other kidsvillians including myself stepped up to make sure a bad situation didnt get worse. Burn night, I had them tag along with us to watch the Man burn, less concerned about him, more concerned about his daughter. Was it required of me? No. Did i have a problem doing it? No. Don't worry about Kidsville, we'll take care of our own. Just take care of yourself. Do whatever you want. If I don't want him to watch, we'll wonder on over to the Human Carcass Wash for a freshin up

[Bob]

I agree with everyone, and like anything else out there it has the potential of being the pet project and possibly the burden of the more gung-ho types involved, but like anything else out there, rule-of-thumb-wise, maybe you people should consider it a good idea unless proven otherwise.

BTW, not bringing my child until she can outrun that stupid land yacht.

[unjonharley]

I agree with everyone, and like anything else out there it has the potential of being the pet project and possibly the burden of the more gung-ho types involved, but like anything else out there, rule-of-thumb-wise, maybe you people should consider it a good idea unless proven otherwise.

BTW, not bringing my child until she can outrun that stupid land yacht.

He avoids hitting Burners (even little one) he has to shift to low to drive over them..

[Bob]

I've witnessed his driving ability and IMO it's a strong argument for banning powered vehicles altogether.

In the bigger picture, it's a bit ironic that you people are treated like children by the org, and you still bitch like peeping baby birds about children attending the event.

[Thecatman]

I would'nt bring a child to an event like BM either. Its a choice parents have make on their own. I try to avoid the kidsville area. If a parent takes a 7, 8, 10 year old child to center camp and a 45 year old man (or older or younger) has his trunk unleashed, or 45 year woman (or older or younger) is topless, so be it.
In 1969 when I was 10 years old I asked my dad "can we go to that show in New York?"

[Captain Goddammit]

I've witnessed his driving ability and IMO it's a strong argument for banning powered vehicles altogether.

To use one of your own frequent retorts, "cites"?
Bob this time you're making shit up, probably because you don't like my opinion about kids and Burning Man.
I manage to drive a very long, very low, very polished custom Peterbilt in very tight spaces without ever scratching anything. I can back up double trailers, without scratching anything. I can just about knit a sweater with an excavator. For years I drove tow trucks, and entered and won "rodeo" driving competitions.
I manage to take my big cabin cruiser in and out of a tight boat slip on windy days without hitting anything.
I'm on a dragon boat racing team (48-foot rowboats with a crew of 20 paddlers) and the team made me the tiller because I'm by far the best at it.
If there's one thing I'm generally known for by people that know me, it's my extremely good driving ability.
I'm 44 years old, drive tons of miles, and have NEVER caused an accident.
Ask anyone who's ridden with me on the playa whether I ever drink and drive like most of you DPW people. Ask them how careful I am to operate within the rules at all times, in strong contrast to most drivers out there.

So tell me Bob, what did you witness? I'll challenge you to match me in any kind of heavy equipment operating, vehicle driving, or boat handling contest you want.

This time you're full of shit.

[jmoralesgibson]

Captain - in response to:
"I don't care whether you light a joint or drop acid either. But guess who does? Black Rock City doesn't get to make all it's own rules. It would have a hell of a lot less rules if left to govern itself, but the playa happens to be in the state of Nevada, on federal land."

Captain, I think you're confused... you've gone way off topic here. Drugs are illegal in Nevada... so they are illegal at BRC, period. It has absolutely nothing to do with kids being there. The law would still be the law even if it was an adult only event. Just FYI, those BRC 'rules' have evolved over the past 25 years in response to incidents and deaths of ADULTS. I've never seen any BM or federal rules posted about curbing your LEGAL activities because of kids.

It sounds like your beef is really with the BM organization and state of Nevada. Getting into a pissing contest about your driving skills on this topic makes you look pathetic. Sorry. If you really need to vent, maybe you should start your own topic... or start Burning Captain and make up your own rules. Good luck with that.

[Captain Goddammit]

If you knew how to read and/or comprehend, you'd have seen where I wrote that I personally have no issue with you bringing your kids.

And as for the pissing contest, Bob is just an old DPW guy who has that typical "You regular participants only fuck up what I built for you" attitude. He seems to hate almost everyone. I know he usually knows what the fuck he's talking about but today he's decided it's my turn to receive The Wrath Of Bob, and quite obviously he's full of shit this time or I'd back down and admit he has a point. He usually does.

[Bob]

Apologies Judi for apparently further derailing this thread. Good luck on your project, kids love patches.

[Kinetik V]

Sheesh, this was starting to read like a pissing contest that got out of hand....in any case I like Bob's patch idea. But where do you go to get patches made that doesn't cost a fortune for a small run?

[Snow]

search online for custom patches. they are suprisingly cheap. what, with the child labor and all

[Kinetik V]

I know...I can always Google it and take my chances. Bob had some sick patches made up a while back..and I would like to know where he got them done at. I always prefer word of mouth recommendations, especially any from the BM community (drink!) over some search engine results.

[jmoralesgibson]

Look Captain, we're just trying to do something positive here. Sorry, I must have missed your 'blessing' on bringing the kids... maybe because I wasn't asking for your okay or your opinion.

This post is for people who want to get involved with this project, and that's obviously not you. You've shared your opinions and you have plenty, so now I ask you... in name of the Burning Man community spirit, to move on and leave us in peace. We promise to do the same when we see your Land Yacht on the playa. Just post a 'No Kids' sign so families know to stay away. Thanks and I hope you have a good burn.

And Bob.. no worries, but I would like to talk to you about your patch resources. PM me when you get a chance.

[Bob]

I'm on CafePress. Not my idea, but proceeds benefit Friends of Black Rock/High Rock, so it's all good. Not sure if they do patches.

I'd check out your local trophy & specialized sports gear shops, they often do patches for youth teams.

[Risky]

I stay away from Kidsville.
(Altho one year I did drop off a dozen kids NatlGeo binoculars.)

I am not child-proof.

[gyre]

I am not child-proof.

lol

[seattleike]

I took my 3 young boys to BM last year. 4, 6 & 7. I don't wanna burst any bubbles here but they really weren't that interested in any "adult" "crazy" stuff going on. They tended to jump on tramps and have sword fights with other dirty little kids all day long. in fact we really didn't see any outrageous stuff at all for the week we were there. BM is perfectly goofy, zanny and whacky for kids. Seeing boobies (funny for the first 30 minutes) or a weiner painted bright pink, really isn't as interesting for a little kid as a kick ass dust storm, glow in the dark sticks or running in circles all day like lunatics.

If kids really cramp your style stick to the swingers conventions and avoid kidsville.

[Ugly Dougly]

I stay away from Kidsville.
(Altho one year I did drop off a dozen kids NatlGeo binoculars.)

I am not child-proof.

Why binoculars? You trying to corrupt those young eyes? ????

[jmoralesgibson]

Black Rock Scout Events so far....

* Trash Talk Fieldtrip to the trash fence with Earth Guardians
* Geology Field Trip to the hot springs with Earth Guardians
* Greeter Shift at Gate Greeting
* Gate/Perimeter/Exodus Field Trip at the Main Gate with Gate Crew
* Lamplighting shift, Center Camp route
* "Kids Take Over BMIR" event at BMIR Radio

Stay tuned for more events!

I am raising money for patches, so contact me if you want to donate and I'll thank you with a clip-on animal tail. Thanks for the support BRC!

[gyre]

I was thinking of some group based on the Blue Blaze Irregulars.

It's been said that children play at being adults.

There may be many things within their capabilities out there, though people tend to be pushing the edge out there.
I worked a shift with a 14 year old last summer, and she handled everything just fine.
Careful thought would have to be given to limitations, obviously.

If they are interested in learning a real skill to use on the playa, I suggest bicycle maintenance and repair.
It's far more involved and more highly skilled than it appears, and some things require considerable strength, but it would be a recognized and appreciated ability.
And even assistance may be helpful.
Monitoring tools and general instruction is sometimes involved.


Perhaps counter-intuitively, I suggest children aren't up to doing greeting shifts by themselves.
Doing it right is more subtle than it looks.

[jmoralesgibson]

Gyre... I agree kids are much more capable than we give them credit for. The tweens & teens in Kidsville built the Mini-man in Kidsville last year (with parental supervision).

Bike maintenance and repair is a great idea for the older kids. Do you know if there will be a Bike camp this year, and if so, how do I contact them?

No worries.. for events and volunteering, kids will be required to have a parent/adult with them. It's a great experience for kids and their grups alike. We had kid-parent teams gate-greeting last year and it went very smoothly. Also, I split the shifts info 1-hour shifts.

P.S. Black Rock Airport just offered to host an event!