Antibiotics Camp

[theCryptofishist]

Its not what it used to be, and never will be again. BM is changed, and it needs to be enjoyed for what it is now!

Whoa! What wisdom. I move we have in the Fernley Walmart parking lot. THat way if anybody forgot anything we'll be able to get it any time of the day or night. No point in trying to have it different.

[Dark Cipher]

Well I'm going. Again. I am as self reliant as I can be. I have to pay full price for my meds if I need them. Why should other people get a discount?

Oh yeah? By that philosophy, I sure hope you are going to wait to buy your ticket at the gate too, so it costs you about 500 bucks and covers the cost of a bunch of the low income tickets they sold, since you are so bent on paying the full price because you're PROUD to.

[Kinetic IV]

I think alot of you people need to realize that burningman is not a venue for radical self reliance anymore. Its just not.

Pardon me. I call BULLSHIT.

The event is what you make it. And just because it's there is no sign anyone has to take advantage of it. And as I said before much of that stuff you keep referring to is BLM permit mandated...if it wasn't for that the LLC would have kept things a lot simpler and quite a bit of that stuff likely wouldn't be there.

So yeah, the event has changed and it's not as wild and crazy as before. But radical self reliance certainly has a place where the wind can hit Category 1 Hurricane force (Alpha conditions) and when it gets that bad the Rangers can't find you, the medtent might as well be on the moon and the helicopters from Reno won't be able to fly in and save your ass.

And one more thing, I take great pride in being self reliant, riding out the windstorms, making it across Jungo Road and handling the minor things that come up in the process. Sure there's easier ways. But there's a deep level of satisfaction from doing it yourself. Radical self reliance is not part of BM anymore? No way. And I know I am not the only one that feels that way.

[unjonharley]

Thanks Kinetic, I go there to be self reliant. By sayig it no longer is don't make it so. The guy was fuckig in the dirt and expects others to take care of his mess. Now he keeps crying that some one should keep him.
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I'm not my brothers keeper. I am my brothers brother.

[Dark Cipher]

Kinetic IV:

I understand your point, and agree. Burning Man is what you make it, and take it for, although my point is that the EVENT itself just isnt about that anymore... Even still they might WANT you to be radically self reliant, yes. And doing so feels great, like you said, and I'm not knocking that, don't get me wrong... I agree with the philosophy, although, when something unexpected happens, and you really need help, its good to know that EVERYONES got your back in that situation. All 35,000+ people. In a community. Supporting eachother, not just only looking out forthemselves. I'm not saying having expectations for people to help you... I'm saying Support people.... in the community. Care. Gift.

[joel the ornery]

be self-reliant.

[Dark Cipher]

Thanks Kinetic, I go there to be self reliant. By sayig it no longer is don't make it so. The guy was fuckig in the dirt and expects others to take care of his mess. Now he keeps crying that some one should keep him.
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I'm not my brothers keeper. I am my brothers brother.

You go to BurningMan to be self Reliant? you mean you normally arent self reliant in the "real world?" Isnt that what BM preaches to its citizens? Bringing BM back to the "Real world?" and sharing it for everyone? Making it our reality? I'mglad to see that you bought your burningman ticket so you could practice your self reliance.

It seems most of you are completely misconstruing the point here. This isnt a cry for help in any way, its a suggestion to help the community as a whole.

[joel the ornery]

<plonk>

[blyslv]

There is clearly a tension between what the ORG says (self-reliance) and what the ORG does (sells coffee). Some of these things piss me off. BUt I go there for my own reasons and choose what contradictions I live with. I understand wanting to have an antibiotics camp, but there have been several medical professionals come here to tell us why that isn't a good idea. I was chapped becasue of the "somebody should..." aspect of it.

It does make for some crazy-making, I'll tell you what.

[helitack]

Well I'm going. Again. I am as self reliant as I can be. I have to pay full price for my meds if I need them. Why should other people get a discount?

Oh yeah? By that philosophy, I sure hope you are going to wait to buy your ticket at the gate too, so it costs you about 500 bucks and covers the cost of a bunch of the low income they sold, since you are so bent on paying the full price because you're PROUD to.

Well amigo, I have a job. I pay my own way all the time. I also pay taxes which subsidize all kinds of low income programs. Neener, neener.

[Dark Cipher]

There is clearly a tension between what the ORG says (self-reliance) and what the ORG does (sells coffee). Some of these things piss me off. BUt I go there for my own reasons and choose what contradictions I live with.

Yup. I agree.

[Dark Cipher]

Well I'm going. Again. I am as self reliant as I can be. I have to pay full price for my meds if I need them. Why should other people get a discount?

Oh yeah? By that philosophy, I sure hope you are going to wait to buy your ticket at the gate too, so it costs you about 500 bucks and covers the cost of a bunch of the low income they sold, since you are so bent on paying the full price because you're PROUD to.

Well amigo, I have a job. I pay my own way all the time. I also pay taxes which subsidize all kinds of low income programs. Neener, neener.

Thats GREAT! Here, have a cookie.

[unjonharley]

helitac, you might just as well give up. O Dark must write for Bush. He has come almost 180.

[Dark Cipher]

helitac, you might just as well give up. O Dark must write for Bush. He has come almost 180.

and how is that unjonharley? What's your reasoning behind a comment like that? I haven't reversed my opinion on anything.

Also, it would be nice if we kept bush out of this. I'm sure 99.9% of us probably can't stand him.

[Kinetic IV]

Speaking of Shrub Co., don't forget the mass propaganda speech is on tonight, live from Fort Bragg.

As for Dark Cypher doing a positional 180, this is part of a much larger argument that's finally getting some airtime. I won't be surprised to see a lot of people flipflop their positions because there's some damn good arguments coming out. And if the positions are changing it's a sign the discussion is effective. (IMHO) And for the most part it's been heated but made it to page 3 with civility still intact. That's impressive.

[Dark Cipher]

Where EXACTLY was my positional 180?


Have a great time this year at survival of the fittest man, and anarchy man. I'll be arriving at the beginning of the week as to not miss a second of extreme self reliance, not care about anyone else by myself man.

[unjonharley]

But Ole Joel plonked out. He's the only polly tic on the board.

[AntiM]

cynik wrote:

Someone who has the vision to see what is lacking with BM should never be criticized or have their statements deconstructed and skewed

Yep, free speech in Amerika. Kindly point out those bright people with an exclusive monopoly on wisdom and I'll drink a big cup O' shut the fuck up.

[Dark Cipher]

From: helitack
To: Dark Cipher
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:38 pm
Subject: .....
Why do you have your panties all in a wad?


From: Dark Cipher
To: helitack
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:43 pm
Subject: Re: .....
Well, mostly because they are bunching up all funny.



Actually, its because its sad to see alot of people on this website coming off very holier than thou about alot of topics... and not willing to gift, or undertstand supporting the community... If anywhere in the world there should be a place for community, sharing, and understanding, it should be burning man. It shouldnt be a place to critisize other people on not being Self Reliant enough. (When it has NOTHING to do with self reliance even.)


From: helitack
To: Dark Cipher
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:57 pm
Subject: Re: .....
My gift is that I rescue lost people, render care to idiots who drive too fast or hike into the desert on a 115 degree day with a pint of water, I restore habitat, I educate people about resources, I issue citations to people who violate the law, I have guided people down Class V whitewater for fun and profit. I put my own life at risk to do most of the above. I get paid to live in extreme environments, more extreme than the Black Rock Playa. And I get paid very well for it. I don't have patience for people who do stupid things and expect people to bail them out or people who claim they are self reliant and expect people to "gift" things like medications, tickets etc. Then I "gift" them with my opionion of why what they did was either stupid or against the law. I don't buy the beggar as being self reliant. I am a National Register as well as a Nevada EMT. If somebody crashes and burns on the playa I will render aid, not as a gift, but as a duty to act.

From: Dark Cipher
To: helitack
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:04 pm
Subject: Re: .....

Okay, so the more tools you have to help people, the easier for you it becomes, and the higher your success rate speed, and the more rewarding the job becomes.

Seems to me like the more tools one has when in the helping profession, the better. I'm sure if the Med Tents had antibiotics, the EMT staff would be alot happier, than having to send people to Gerlack or Reno to get ripped off and waste more time when people could be being treated and getting better, and stay out there having a good time.

Mind if I post this on the thread? I think its a pretty good point.



From: helitack
To: Dark Cipher
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:09 pm
Subject: Re: .....
Post whatever you want. EMT's cannot dispense medications. Repeat, EMT's cannot dispense medications. If someone has an infection severe enough to warrant antibiotics, they should go to Gerlach or Reno and be seen by a physician and then prescribed medications. And don't screw in the dust, not smart.

[Dark Cipher]

Right, don't screw in the dust. Make sure to have the Greeters tell everyone that as they enter BRC this year.

Its understood that EMTs cannot dispense, but they could have the doctors that work out the on the playa do it if it was needed. Why are you people SO OPPOSED to such a helpful idea? I don't get it.

[unjonharley]

Its understood that EMTs cannot dispense, but they could have the doctors that work out the on the playa do it if it was needed. Why are you people SO OPPOSED to such a helpful idea? I don't get it.

~
Now you got it. "you just don't get it"

[helitack]

Amend that statement to say "have issued citations". I no longer hold a commission.

[unjonharley]

Right, don't screw in the dust. Make sure to have the Greeters tell everyone that as they enter BRC this year.

~
Now you want the greeter to save your ass. There seems to be no end to your gimme.

[Dark Cipher]

Right, don't screw in the dust. Make sure to have the Greeters tell everyone that as they enter BRC this year.

~
Now you want the greeter to save your ass. There seems to be no end to your gimme.

Obviously, you don't have the capacity to understand sarcasm.

[ratgirl]

this thread really caught my eye because this is something my long time doctor has been expressing an interest in doing for several years now. he's been interested in going to burning man to volunteer his time helping sick or injured people who might need it. dark cipher's idea is not anything that hasn't been done before- I think that it could be a very definite possibility.

here is a link to an expedition my dr. helped out on: http://mednews.stanford.edu/stanmed/199 ... c_top.html

I'm sure if dr. lee was able to find pharmeceutical companies to donate medicine at the top of everest, then it would make sense that this could be a possibility for the burning man community as well.

if you go back and re-read dark cipher's original post, I'm pretty sure it doesn't say anything about expecting anyone else to take care of him, what it says is "I would love to see..." not "can somebody else please take care of me". jeez, it's an idea people, and not a bad one at that. lay off the hateraid, for crying out loud!

the next time I see my doctor, I will make sure to ask him if this is something he might be interested in trying to make happen.

[Simply Joel]

Where EXACTLY was my positional 180?


Have a great time this year at survival of the fittest man, and anarchy man. I'll be arriving at the beginning of the week as to not miss a second of extreme self reliance, not care about anyone else by myself man.

Dark Cipher (Cloud)

self-reliance isn't narcissism (which I believe your subscribe to) but is loving your fellow man enough not to burden him with your shit.

the kinder gentler joel... and still ornerier than thou... you worthless fuckwit

[helitack]

Beer Joel?

[unjonharley]

this thread really caught my eye because this is something my long time doctor has been expressing an interest in doing for several years now. he's been interested in going to burning man to volunteer his time helping sick or injured people who might need it. dark cipher's idea is not anything that hasn't been done before- I think that it could be a very definite possibility.

here is a link to an expedition my dr. helped out on: http://mednews.stanford.edu/stanmed/199 ... c_top.html

I'm sure if dr. lee was able to find pharmeceutical companies to donate medicine at the top of everest, then it would make sense that this could be a possibility for the burning man community as well.

if you go back and re-read dark cipher's original post, I'm pretty sure it doesn't say anything about expecting anyone else to take care of him, what it says is "I would love to see..." not "can somebody else please take care of me". jeez, it's an idea people, and not a bad one at that. lay off the hateraid, for crying out loud!

the next time I see my doctor, I will make sure to ask him if this is something he might be interested in trying to make happen.

~
I don't know if your a new poster or an old sock. This guys "idea" stems from a complant from last year. When no one at Burning Man was will to or could help. He did not follow a prudent path and get his friend to a proper care unit. He stayed on the playa and retuned again and again to care units that could not help him. It appears he had no plan to help himself. I would assume he refused to believe the printed dangers of one is on the back of your tickets. OH Yes he stated in one post that these dangers were not real.
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Getting a hand full of drugs to the top of a mountain is a far cry from enough diferent pills to service anywhere up to 30.000 plus people.
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I can only hope one of those drunk DPW worker are there if I have another heart attack. They would know what the prudent thing to is.

[Dark Cipher]

This guys "idea" stems from a complant from last year. When no one at Burning Man was will to or could help. He did not follow a prudent path and get his friend to a proper care unit. He stayed on the playa and retuned again and again to care units that could not help him. It appears he had no plan to help himself. I would assume he refused to believe the printed dangers of one is on the back of your tickets. OH Yes he stated in one post that these dangers were not real..

Okay... you have OBVIOUSLY not read the message postings here clearly because what you just stated is entirely wrong. What you're (not your) refrencing is Cyniks post, not mine. I did follow the "prudent path" and we got ripped off in Gerlach at the health clinic. how the hell are you supposed to "HELP YOURSELF" when you get an infection and you need antibiotics? its different for a heart condition.. witha heart condition, there are usually symptoms, and ways to know ahead of time and plan for it. In this case, it just happens. Boom. not to say that A heart attack can't happen without symptoms, yes, but in that case you need to be air lifted to reno or urgent cared out of there ASAP, its not like having a UTI or Strep. There's no comparison at all, and antibiotics don't even have anything to do with a heart attack. And I never said that the dangers on the ticket weren't real. Where are you getting this crap???

[Dark Cipher]

I can only hope one of those drunk DPW worker are there if I have another heart attack. They would know what the prudent thing to is.

Oh so suddenly things have changed, and you expect help from the DPW workers when you need it? Maybe you'll have a heart attack, and lie there dying because the DPW worker felt that because you didn't come prepared (RADICAL SELF RELIANCE) you didn't deserve to be helped.