Date Rape at Burning Man

[big baby jesus]

I was raped at Burning Man too. I had been out all night, came back to my tent a little bit buzzed and pretty horny. I was on my sleeping bag when my hand started groping me. I didn't stop it and last thing I knew, I started to punch my clown and then I dozed off. I woke up naked and I asked my hand what it did to me. It didn't answer and I knew right then that I took advantage of myself. I think a guy should be able to get blind ass drunk and pass out without having to watch his hands.

My Story

[DVD Burner]

Ha ha ha ha ha!

[Lord Of Ruin]

Old friend, new friend, boyfriend or wife, if it isn't consensual, it's unfortunate. And, when it isn't consensual because we have rendered ourselves unable to give consent - or we have rendered ourselves unable to realize we are not getting consent, it is even more so regrettable.

I totally agree here.

I would, (and I bet a fair number of district attorneys would as well) would argue that she DID give consent. Consent doesn't necessarily mean that the proceedings stop for some formal declaration of it at some point.

Her history with the person, her behavior that evening (changing from "we're just friends" to "arm around him and we should start dating") and other actions contribute to the drunk guy thinking he DID have consent. Honestly out there, how many of you would NOT think you had consent at this point, even without the alcohol?

You all DO note earlier in her post about how she's known him for 10 years, he's done all these selfless things for her (moving, etc)? Clearly they were close. Suddenly she both announces and begins showing physical affection for him. She willingly participates in intoxicants with him.

This whole chain of events is just sad, especially in light of how much pain it evidently still causes her.


A bit of a story:

For the record, I'm a fairly big guy (6 ', 240 lbs) and a similar thing happened to me almost 20 years ago. Home on leave from the military, I hooked up with some buddies to celebrate my return. MUCH drinking ensued, of the shot variety. AT the end of the night, these idiots not only put me into my car blind drunk, but they sent along some bar wench they knew. I have only the dimmest of flashes of driving home...realizing when I was almost home I had no lights on....the girl actually in my lap trying to make out with me while driving....).

I realize that I could have easily killed someone.

I woke up the next morning with a killer headache, with a strange girl next to me. We were both naked. I didn't even know her name. We had clearly had sex. SHE woke up and was REALLY alarmed and scared; clearly she had no idea who I was or where she was. I joked with her a bit which seemed to calm her and I think she transitioned to the "I can't believe I did this!" She got dressed, and made a hasty exit. I have no idea how she got home...

So, for a long time I wondered from her reaction. Was that date rape? How could it be, I reasoned, when I didn't even have an intention of having ANY sort of sex? (This was back in the days before the term "date rape" was being used...there was only violent rapey rape talked about back then).

My point being....size or ability to "hold your liquor" has nothing to do with the ability to continue to function. I "blacked out" but I managed to drive a car home, with a stranger in my lap, and have sex with her. I've worked shifts where I held very long conversations with participants when they were highly altered, yet they didn't even remember meeting me the next day. While that renders a person unable to give consent, it'd be almost impossible to tell to an outsider that they've crossed that line.

For law enforcement, they'd then look at "Well, would a reasonable person up to that point expect that they DID have consent?"

Note, that this is not to say anything of the "she deserved it" type of argument. Just that people need to be very aware of the signals they send, and of their own state of self-reliance.

I totally concur with earlier suggestions that this person, if still attending BM, get involved with BED.

[Lord Of Ruin]

Right because NOTHING says rape/sexual battery better than getting shit-faced drunk in a crowd of 40,000 strangers with an unrealistic expectation of not being harassed, stalked, assaulted.

Her expectations that Burning Man be utopia are absurd. She, like everyone everywhere, should realize that the people who attend Burning Man are a cross section of the (mostly white middle and upper class) human population. As such you can expect all the same fucked up shit that happens everywhere else. So I pose this question to you Isotopia: Should you have to assume that every other human being may rape you? The question is asking if that is the world you want to live in. The fact is we do live in that world but is it right to just accept it or should we fight kicking and screaming to change it?

Cricket, I feel like I should say I respect your work. You must be a sexual assault counselor of some kind?

Your personal experiences with the percentages of women you know that have been raped, the circle of people you know are about 2 times the national average. Maybe you are the Schleprock of sexual assault...the Brady bad idol of sorts?

And I want to live in the world we do...the one where sexual assaults have decreased 60% since 1993.

Things ARE getting better. People ARE more informed these days.

[bm_cricket]

Cricket, I feel like I should say I respect your work. You must be a sexual assault counselor of some kind?

I'm not a rape counselor or anything of the sort but I've helped organize and run sex ed/health workshops for youth groups and I'm usually someone who people trust to talk to. I've worked with gay pride organizations.. all that stuff. But no, when it comes down to it I'm just someone to talk to. I'm really not trained in counseling people.

And I guess that for my part in this conversation I think that women need be aware of their surroundings and aware that this world isn't perfect. And guys should stand up for women (or guys) who are in vulnerable situations. I have faith that most people are mostly good. We all just need to watch each others backs for the people who are bad people.. .. I think it should be a perfect world and women should deserve to feel safe. We just aren't there. I don't really know if we ever will be there. I am glad things are improving.

[Lord Of Ruin]

I can give many additional examples of scenarios I've where I flat-out walked in the middle and said "what is going on here?"

In public places!

All involving drunk people.

Man, where do you hang out? I'm torn between wanting to go there and knowing I need to stay away.

Before burns, bars. I was a bartender, and later worked the door at another club. Now, as a Ranger and a burn-goer (and someone who still frequents bars).

I didn't know they let first yar attendees become Rangers. Learn something new everyday!

[C.f.M.]

BRC doesn't let virgins ranger - attend training, yes.

I've rangered @ misc. regionals (and then been asked to do "security" at other events, as a result of the creator knowing about the whole ranger thing) for...3? 4? years.

[Lord Of Ruin]

The camp leader was very helpful after the burn.
Sadly for all it was some on in his camp, and this loser was trying to sell this date rap drug to others in his camp.
That and his costume he wore gave him a way.

So i E-mailed some pic's to the lady in France and she picket his.

Thank you rangers for not even coming to or camp after it was reported to the BRC rangers near centercamp it's in there log but we had a no show from the kiestone rangersat camp.
I guse it's was to hard to find or camp at 6:45 centercamp.

Just an FYI there Powerchair, if anything like this happens again, this is a Law Enforcement issue, not a Ranger one. Rangers can help you with other things concerning the incident, including getting LEO over to take action, but that's it. I can speak from experience that the Rangers to a person, and the Org in general takes this type of report VERY seriously.

I'm not sure what happened in your case, or how it got reported to them. But on other shifts (unless it was burn night maybe?) this type of report would have resulted in a large Ranger AND LEO response.

LoR

[Lord Of Ruin]

So here's my unsolicited advice:

1. Mutual consent is required for ethical and legal sex. Consent requires legal age, positive communication and reasonable (not absolute) sobriety by all participants. Silence is not consent, and No Means No. Frankly, I'd hold out for mutual enthusiasm, because mere consent seems too weak, but at least obtain consent.

2. Saying yes to one activity is not consent for a repeat of that activity, nor is it consent for any related activity. You can change your mind before any act. Afterwards you need to live with it.

3. Be clear about your desires and your boundaries. Be clear about what you want to do and what you don't want to do.

4. Look out for each other. If you see or hear something suspicious going on then check it out.


Life is too short for bad sex.

Thaaaaank you. How is it that any of this is so hard for people to accept??

No, the point I think most people are missing is a bit of an esoteric one: I believe consent WAS given. I believe it was given earlier in the evening, and nothing subsequent to that changed any reasonable idea of what consent is.

Not continuing to party with them, laughing, snuggling, making out, laughing while having oral sex performed upon them.....

Furthermore, he had ample reinforcement that consent was given...you know, because THEY BEGAN TO DATE after that.

None of THOSE means "No" in my world, Cricket.

And if you are going to take the line that anytime subsequent to that consent, if either party is no longer sober that consent is somehow automatically withdrawn, then you've pretty much eliminated 99% of the married sex in the world.

[Lord Of Ruin]

If you leave your nice shiny new vehicle on the street with the engine running, some one is going to take it for a ride.

The only thing I find compassion for is the fact that this was someone you knew for 10yrs. It's natural to think that you could let your guard down and this friend would take care of you. Perhaps this friend was just as intoxicated as you were, and his decision making was affected.
themselves to be so incapacitated.

Ok, gloves off here. Agreeing with you Risky.

Who here thinks that a. if this is real and b. if we talked to "Travis" we'd learn a whole lot more.

Like how he was nice to her for 10 years, even though it was clear he wanted more than a friend relationship? Helped her do all of her shit tasks like moving...you know, because that's what friends do.

How she seems to turn on and off the charm as needed.

How suddenly, when caught up in the free spirit of things, she's suddenly coming around to his way of thinking about their relationship.

Then the next day....was it real? Nope....not only not real, she's not sure what happened/what did you do to me?!

Ok...then we're off. But no, I like you, let's date....mmmmkay...we're ON again. As friends....errr...more than friends....having sex....not having sex. Being raped...not raped.

Oh hell. Does anyone here NOT get why "Travis" won't "talk to her" about things anymore?

[bm_cricket]

None of THOSE means "No" in my world, Cricket.

I think we are on the same page here. I'm done thinking about SF Burner Girl's story because.. well, it story reminds me of Swiss cheese.

Still doesn't change my feelings on drunken sex which should be avoided until boundaries and rules are established and respected.

[Fire_Moose]

who's story?

WTF thread is this?


....Oh hahaha

[MistressSybs]

[Zona]

You need to ask for your rights even with the cops now.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/02/us/02scotus.html?ref=us

Not that you will get them, but this is the new rule.

[gyre]

The most important thing anyone over 12 years old needs to know, is how to deal with police interrogation, so they don't end up as another false conviction.

There are still no ethical rules in place anywhere in the usa for interrogation.

Knowing how it works is as important as any other form of self defense.

[dr.placebo]

A short, decidedly not comprehensive list of some things I do not know:

1. I do not know if SFB is a real person or a sock

2. If SFB is real, I do not know if SFB's story is accurate

3. If SFB's story is accurate, I do not know if she was raped

4. I do not know why we are continuing this

[DVD Burner]

I stopped a long time ago.

In fact, I was the first to pick this bullshit thread off at the beginning and was the first not to give it any more attention.

I'm just watching the entertainment now.

But then again, it's not even entertaining anymore.

Maybe the thread should be closed.

There really is nothing else to be seen or said here.

It's done.

It's a dead thread.

[mdmf007]

A short, decidedly not comprehensive list of some things I do not know:

1. I do not know if SFB is a real person or a sock

2. If SFB is real, I do not know if SFB's story is accurate

3. If SFB's story is accurate, I do not know if she was raped

4. I do not know why we are continuing this

SFB does not show as a sock - On my Mod screen I can see IP's and it cross references with other user accounts that post with that same IP so if SFB and another account post from the same IP it shows both.

Cant help with 2, 3, or 4. I dont know why we keep posting here, its like a car wreck.

[ygmir]

A short, decidedly not comprehensive list of some things I do not know:

1. I do not know if SFB is a real person or a sock

2. If SFB is real, I do not know if SFB's story is accurate

3. If SFB's story is accurate, I do not know if she was raped

4. I do not know why we are continuing this

SFB does not show as a sock - On my Mod screen I can see IP's and it cross references with other user accounts that post with that same IP so if SFB and another account post from the same IP it shows both.

Cant help with 2, 3, or 4. I dont know why we keep posting here, its like a car wreck.

you, of all people, don't know why people post, where, it makes no sense or is not allowed...........

really............

[AntiM]

If you pick at it, it won't heal.

[C.f.M.]

Yes. Let's put it to bed.

[marcher5877]

From this weeks New Yorker:

Great fiction

http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/featur ... on_franzen

[FaeTora]

That picture with the laps is just downright funny. Nothing says lonely like a pillow shaped like a woman with no torso.

[gyre]

It was created for women, supposedly by women.

I posted the original japanese webhouse here somewhere.

[EmilyD]

It was created for women, supposedly by women.

I posted the original japanese webhouse here somewhere.

I'm sorry but I just have to ask, are those pussy pillows?

[FaeTora]

Yes because nothing says lesbian love play like lap shaped pillows.

The world never surprised me but it does make me chuckle.

[gyre]

You'll have to explain what those are?



http://www.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/20 ... llow_x.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3699516.stm
http://www.udemakura.jp/
http://www.udemakura.jp/english/

[gyre]

[FaeTora]

Lonely people trying to feel better. People will do quite a lot to not feel alone. Its still sad though. When I need a hug or to snuggle I just call up one of my guys and I have a buddy for the night. But I also realize I'm fortunate to have them.

[AntiM]

Since I actually lived in Japan, I must say... the ones for women are shaped like men, the ones for men are shaped like women. Same sex love is still in the closet in Japan.